Heidfeld will be replaced by Senna... ?

f1-gast · Post by **f1-gast** » 23 Aug 2011, 07:25

At the end Senna is in the car.
how much will he pay ? Well probably it is because it's lotus Gold Black. Like in the 80's.

But Senna got no F1 Talent..... we will see =) Maybe he will take some XTC before the race and he's like "I'm driving hard i'm driving hard right up to place 1 :lol:

"

fjackdaw · Post by **fjackdaw** » 23 Aug 2011, 08:36

f1-gast wrote:But Senna got no F1 Talent.....

We shall see... driving for the worst team on the grid is rarely a good demonstration of true F1 worth.

DanielPT · Post by **DanielPT** » 23 Aug 2011, 09:33

I remind that it is not yet assured that SEN will replace HEI this weekend. I am hopping for a HEI showing because, inexplicably, I am a Heidfeld fan.

jpm · Post by **jpm** » 23 Aug 2011, 10:21

DanielPT wrote:I remind that it is not yet assured that SEN will replace HEI this weekend. I am hopping for a HEI showing because, inexplicably, I am a Heidfeld fan.

Phew, I'm glad I'm not alone in that department! Back to the topic of Grosjean, the reason he is winning in GP2 this year is due to his knowledge of how to make tyres last the difference, which arguably he gained from doing lots of test miles in the Pirelli-shod Toyota F1 car last year. And, if we look back to 2009 before Grosjean left GP2 for F1, and whilst he was the team-mate of Petrov, he was actually ahead. Maybe its ust me, but I don't like it when drivers jump in the queue and rob more deserving drivers of an F1 place despite being inferior in the junior category. For example, Petrov over Grosjean and Maldonado over Hulkenberg (and everybody who has made it into F1 from GP2 that isn't called Adam Carroll!)

TomWazzleshaw · Post by **TomWazzleshaw** » 23 Aug 2011, 10:30

jpm wrote: Maybe its ust me, but I don't like it when drivers jump in the queue and rob more deserving drivers of an F1 place despite being inferior in the junior category. For example, Petrov over Grosjean and Maldonado over Hulkenberg

Well in Maldonado's defense the Hulk failed to impress 90% of the time he was driving that Williams anyway (Not that Maldonado is doing any better :lol:

)

Eryx · Post by **Eryx** » 23 Aug 2011, 11:50

Sennas bringing 7million pounds worth of sponsor.

Post by **mario** » 23 Aug 2011, 12:49

DanielPT wrote:I remind that it is not yet assured that SEN will replace HEI this weekend. I am hopping for a HEI showing because, inexplicably, I am a Heidfeld fan.

And according to Autosport it seems that Heidfeld does not seem to be willing to leave the team, especially since they are introducing a major upgrade package at Spa which could make or break the tail end of their season (and their chances of returning to 4th in the WCC).
Along with that, there is the fact that that some parties are questioning whether the terms of his contract allow the team to sack Heidfeld for the Belgian GP - given that Heidfeld is ahead of Petrov in the WDC, it might be hard to argue that Heidfeld has underperformed, after all, and the fact that Petrov has also struggled in recent races indicates that it is the car, and not the driver, that is the biggest problem. http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/93888

Yes, Heidfeld's not been a flamboyant driver, and not imposed himself on the team in the way that Kubica has because that is not in his nature - why Renault expected Heidfeld to completely change his character after several years I can't tell. And as for Bruno Senna, frankly he is only really getting that seat because he has sponsorship cash and Renault are rumoured to be running short on funding - I doubt that he'll do any better than Heidfeld if he is thrown into the car at relatively short notice, and Spa is not exactly the most forgiving of venues either.
I wouldn't even be surprised if Bruno was only kept for a few races (i.e. until after his sponsors hand over some cash) before he in turn is pushed out for Grosjean...

Cynon · Post by **Cynon** » 23 Aug 2011, 14:16

1993DonningtonNo1 wrote:If anything, Heidfeld is the new Stefan Johansson, and FP1 at Hungary provided further proof of that..

Heidfeld hasn't killed one of his competitors in IndyCar being a careless twat. Yet.

Wizzie wrote:
jpm wrote: Maybe its ust me, but I don't like it when drivers jump in the queue and rob more deserving drivers of an F1 place despite being inferior in the junior category. For example, Petrov over Grosjean and Maldonado over Hulkenberg

Well in Maldonado's defense the Hulk failed to impress 90% of the time he was driving that Williams anyway (Not that Maldonado is doing any better )

Replacing Grosjean with Petrov was a smart move, as Grosjean failed to impress as well! Hulkenberg is hugely overrated as an F1 driver, but by all means I want to see him in IndyCar!

DanielPT · Post by **DanielPT** » 23 Aug 2011, 14:46

Cynon wrote:Replacing Grosjean with Petrov was a smart move, as Grosjean failed to impress as well! Hulkenberg is hugely overrated as an F1 driver, but by all means I want to see him in IndyCar!

Hulkenberg didn't had much of a chance really and I don't think he really failed, just that he had huge expectations on his shoulders. He still is rated according to his lower formula records. He won GP2 in his rookie year, a feat not achieved by many, won the 08 F3 euro series in his second year against drivers whom only now are being spoken of (Jules Bianchi, 3rd, Christian Vietoris, 6th, Sam Bird, 11th, Danny Clos, 12th and Robert Wickens, 15th albeit with only half season, so if these guys are deemed to be F1 material then Hulkenberg is even more deserving) and wiped the field in A1GP which doesn't mean much but he was impressively dominant nevertheless. So no, I don't think he is hugely overrated.

Howard A Treesong · Post by **Howard A Treesong** » 23 Aug 2011, 17:00

Renault must be skint. Heidfeld is a reliable driver, he's scoring higher than Petrov. It's true that Bruno Senna hasn't had a chance to shine at HRT, but I don't recall there being signs of greatness.

It would be a happy surprise if Senna suddenly started to shine in the Renault, but I think this is mainly about money.

FullMetalJack · Post by **FullMetalJack** » 23 Aug 2011, 17:30

It's the car that's shite. Otherwise Petrov would probably be scoring points more regularly.

Heidfeld is the perfect yardstick for the car. He will put the car wherever it realistically is.

Mister Fungus · Post by **Mister Fungus** » 23 Aug 2011, 17:49

Cynon wrote:Hulkenberg is hugely overrated as an F1 driver, but by all means I want to see him in IndyCar!

Guess which driver scored the last non red bull pole

dr-baker · Post by **dr-baker** » 23 Aug 2011, 18:20

I will be facinated to see how Bruno Senna fares. I hope he gets to remain in the sport for several years. Why? Because I am hoping that Josh Hill makes it all the way to F1 (his results may need to pick up a little, but he is by far and away the most popular driver amongst the paying spectators trackside when he races) and thus see both Senna and Hill racing Williams Renaults!

Paul Hayes · Post by **Paul Hayes** » 23 Aug 2011, 19:11

This can only be an investment in the future on Renault's part, surely? I just can't see Senna being able to perform significantly better - or even as well - as Heidfeld would have done for the rest of this season.

Harsh on poor old Quick Nick, who I think has generally done a good job for the team.

Klon · Post by **Klon** » 23 Aug 2011, 19:22

dr-baker wrote:I will be facinated to see how Bruno Senna fares. I hope he gets to remain in the sport for several years. Why? Because I am hoping that Josh Hill makes it all the way to F1 (his results may need to pick up a little, but he is by far and away the most popular driver amongst the paying spectators trackside when he races) and thus see both Senna and Hill racing Williams Renaults!

I don't want that. Hill musn't waste his time with Williams and go for the top teams. It is his destiny to become the first son of a son of a world champion that became world champion that becomes world champion.

Howard A Treesong · Post by **Howard A Treesong** » 23 Aug 2011, 19:51

Paul Hayes wrote:This can only be an investment in the future on Renault's part, surely? I just can't see Senna being able to perform significantly better - or even as well - as Heidfeld would have done for the rest of this season.

Harsh on poor old Quick Nick, who I think has generally done a good job for the team.

It does seem like a slap in the face for a nice guy, Heidfeld is not a failing driver.

Barbazza · Post by **Barbazza** » 23 Aug 2011, 20:49

This is very disappointing, though not surprising exactly. I like Nick, and clearly it's the car that's been slipping backwards relatively speaking, not him.

Having said that, I'm glad it's Senna who's replacing him and not Grosjean, because at least we'll know now how good/bad Senna is with a decent yardstick and half-decent car. Grosjean's already had that experience, and he was rubbish.

TomWazzleshaw · Post by **TomWazzleshaw** » 23 Aug 2011, 21:43

Barbazza wrote:This is very disappointing, though not surprising exactly. I like Nick, and clearly it's the car that's been slipping backwards relatively speaking, not him.

Having said that, I'm glad it's Senna who's replacing him and not Grosjean, because at least we'll know now how good/bad Senna is with a decent yardstick and half-decent car. Grosjean's already had that experience, and he was rubbish.

I wouldn't call the Renault R-29 a decent car. Alonso just dragged that crapbox to places it had no right to be in all season.

FullMetalJack · Post by **FullMetalJack** » 23 Aug 2011, 21:45

Wizzie wrote:
Barbazza wrote:This is very disappointing, though not surprising exactly. I like Nick, and clearly it's the car that's been slipping backwards relatively speaking, not him.

Having said that, I'm glad it's Senna who's replacing him and not Grosjean, because at least we'll know now how good/bad Senna is with a decent yardstick and half-decent car. Grosjean's already had that experience, and he was rubbish.

I wouldn't call the Renault R-29 a decent car. Alonso just dragged that crapbox to places it had no right to be in all season.

The R29 was awful, at the end of the season, it was the worst car on the grid.

dr-baker · Post by **dr-baker** » 23 Aug 2011, 22:18

Klon wrote:
dr-baker wrote:I will be facinated to see how Bruno Senna fares. I hope he gets to remain in the sport for several years. Why? Because I am hoping that Josh Hill makes it all the way to F1 (his results may need to pick up a little, but he is by far and away the most popular driver amongst the paying spectators trackside when he races) and thus see both Senna and Hill racing Williams Renaults!

I don't want that. Hill musn't waste his time with Williams and go for the top teams. It is his destiny to become the first son of a son of a world champion that became world champion that becomes world champion.

I want that too. But it did not do Button's career any harm, debuting in a non-race-winning Williams. And Rosberg could still make something of his career, debuting for Williams Cosworth, the team and engine with which his father won the title.

Klon · Post by **Klon** » 23 Aug 2011, 22:29

dr-baker wrote:But it did not do Button's career any harm, debuting in a non-race-winning Williams.

Well, it didn't damage his career alright - but if I were thinking about how to become world champion, Jenson Button would be off all champions the single worst example to follow.

DanielPT · Post by **DanielPT** » 24 Aug 2011, 11:20

Klon wrote:
dr-baker wrote:But it did not do Button's career any harm, debuting in a non-race-winning Williams.

Well, it didn't damage his career alright - but if I were thinking about how to become world champion, Jenson Button would be off all champions the single worst example to follow.

You have to be lucky to stick with a team, wait for a couple of takeovers and hope, with all planets aligned, everything falls into the right place. You would be champion then.

dr-baker · Post by **dr-baker** » 24 Aug 2011, 11:41

DanielPT wrote:
Klon wrote:
dr-baker wrote:But it did not do Button's career any harm, debuting in a non-race-winning Williams.

Well, it didn't damage his career alright - but if I were thinking about how to become world champion, Jenson Button would be off all champions the single worst example to follow.

You have to be lucky to stick with a team, wait for a couple of takeovers and hope, with all planets aligned, everything falls into the right place. You would be champion then.

But the Williams that Button debuted in was probably a better car and team (performance-wise certainly, and popularity-wise second only to Minardi in my book) than the Minardi that Alonso debuted in...

DanielPT · Post by **DanielPT** » 24 Aug 2011, 11:50

dr-baker wrote:
DanielPT wrote:
Klon wrote:
Well, it didn't damage his career alright - but if I were thinking about how to become world champion, Jenson Button would be off all champions the single worst example to follow.

You have to be lucky to stick with a team, wait for a couple of takeovers and hope, with all planets aligned, everything falls into the right place. You would be champion then.

But the Williams that Button debuted in was probably a better car and team (performance-wise certainly, and popularity-wise second only to Minardi in my book) than the Minardi that Alonso debuted in...

It is true, but Alonso forced his way into the front of the grid. Button landed there after years being almost nowhere (2004 and 2006 notwithstanding. Also, he probably deserved such luck after enduring rough years). This also means that Rosberg will probably be champion in 2015 right after Mercedes gets rid of the team by a nickel to a highly successful team boss.

Post by **tommykl** » 24 Aug 2011, 13:15

List of Formula 1 World Drivers' Champions
...
2015 - Nico Rosberg (GER) - Whitmarsh-Mercedes

dr-baker · Post by **dr-baker** » 24 Aug 2011, 13:51

tommykl wrote:List of Formula 1 World Drivers' Champions
...
2015 - Nico Rosberg (GER) - Newey-Mercedes

Fixed.

tommykl wrote:List of Formula 1 World Drivers' Champions
...
2015 - Nico Rosberg (GER) - HWNSNBM-Mercedes

Fixed again. (It was going to end up there eventually anyway...)

Shizuka · Post by **Shizuka** » 24 Aug 2011, 17:50

dr-baker wrote:
tommykl wrote:List of Formula 1 World Drivers' Champions
...
2015 - Nico Rosberg (GER) - Newey-Mercedes

Fixed.

Actually, I would really like to see Newey as a team boss, not only as the car designer. I'd like to see how he would cope with two drivers, who basically feel like getting one more chance before retiring, only to see the team taking both titles, then selling over the team to a manufacturer, who returns after years.

Now, what if this Newey team ran... HONDA engines?

Aerond · Post by **Aerond** » 24 Aug 2011, 18:06

Senna confirmed for Spa
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/93914

YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES

Klon · Post by **Klon** » 24 Aug 2011, 18:40

Well, enjoy yourself, Bruno - you won't last too long.

Yannick · Post by **Yannick** » 24 Aug 2011, 18:57

This move is probably just GenII Capital Racing giving its Gravity Management drivers a chance, capitalizing on Senna's sponsorship money and Group Bahar trying to capitalize on Senna's name.

However, Bruno Senna might not be the only driver we see in this seat this season because as GenII Capital Racing have figured out they have got nothing more to win or to lose this year, they might as well put pay drivers in their car. Hey, if that's the new trend with them, they might even put Chinese F1 IdolTM Ho-Pin Tung in the car for the Chinese GP.

Yet, the move of Bruno Spengler from Mercedes to BMW for next year in DTM is much more startling.

Klon · Post by **Klon** » 24 Aug 2011, 19:25

Yannick wrote:Yet, the move of Bruno Spengler from Mercedes to BMW for next year in DTM is much more startling.

Oh HWNSNBM, that one is putting Mercedes in an awful situation - they either give the #1 to BMW or lose the title, since neither Green or Schumacher are in the title battle anymore and the less said about Gary Paffett, the better. On the other hand, the odds of Coulthard staying in the DTM have most certainly improved.

Ferrim · Post by **Ferrim** » 24 Aug 2011, 20:38

Remove the question mark from the topic's title, please.

Cynon · Post by **Cynon** » 24 Aug 2011, 22:29

Mister Fungus wrote:
Cynon wrote:Hulkenberg is hugely overrated as an F1 driver, but by all means I want to see him in IndyCar!

Guess which driver scored the last non red bull pole

Guess which driver threw away a good result.

Captain Hammer · Post by **Captain Hammer** » 25 Aug 2011, 01:41

Wizzie wrote:
jpm wrote: Maybe its ust me, but I don't like it when drivers jump in the queue and rob more deserving drivers of an F1 place despite being inferior in the junior category. For example, Petrov over Grosjean and Maldonado over Hulkenberg

Well in Maldonado's defense the Hulk failed to impress 90% of the time he was driving that Williams anyway (Not that Maldonado is doing any better )

Not to mention the way Hulkenberg refused to find sponsors for Williams when he was asked to. He seemed to think that he would be accepted on talent alone, despite the fact that there's only about half a dozen drivers who have no need for sponsors, and Hulkenberg certainly wasn't in their league. The effect was compounded by the fact that Williams only asked him to find said sponsors because they were at a time when they seriously needed money.

Bleu · Post by **Bleu** » 25 Aug 2011, 06:39

tommykl wrote:List of Formula 1 World Drivers' Champions
...
2015 - Nico Rosberg (GER) - HWNSNBM

Fixed once more. HWNSNBM builds the engines himself.

Captain Hammer · Post by **Captain Hammer** » 25 Aug 2011, 06:53

No - HWNSNBM is the engine!

DanielPT · Post by **DanielPT** » 25 Aug 2011, 09:37

Klon wrote:
Yannick wrote:Yet, the move of Bruno Spengler from Mercedes to BMW for next year in DTM is much more startling.

Oh HWNSNBM, that one is putting Mercedes in an awful situation - they either give the #1 to BMW or lose the title, since neither Green or Schumacher are in the title battle anymore and the less said about Gary Paffett, the better. On the other hand, the odds of Coulthard staying in the DTM have most certainly improved.

So they decided to waste a perfectly good 2009 Mercedes in Ralf Schumacher... It serves them well! :lol:

Klon · Post by **Klon** » 25 Aug 2011, 12:54

DanielPT wrote:So they decided to waste a perfectly good 2009 Mercedes in Ralf Schumacher... It serves them well!

In any year before this, I would have just a silent, inward rage. This year, I just say amused that Ralf is the more successful Schumacher brother.

dinizintheoven · Post by **dinizintheoven** » 25 Aug 2011, 13:18

Klon wrote:In any year before this, I would have just a silent, inward rage. This year, I just say amused that Ralf is the more successful Schumacher brother.

I wonder if Sniff Petrol will adjust their captions accordingly?

DanielPT · Post by **DanielPT** » 25 Aug 2011, 13:31

Klon wrote:
DanielPT wrote:So they decided to waste a perfectly good 2009 Mercedes in Ralf Schumacher... It serves them well!

In any year before this, I would have just a silent, inward rage. This year, I just say amused that Ralf is the more successful Schumacher brother.

He must beware though, since his brother might be coming into town to get things straight!
http://joesaward.wordpress.com/2011/08/25/michael-schumacher-to-test-dtm/