Is Ferrari becoming Italian again?

Ross Prawn · Post by **Ross Prawn** » 11 Apr 2009, 22:55

In the last decade Ferrari was an international super team with ruthless French management, a ruthless German driver and a great technical team assembled from the ends of the earth. But nowadays they seem to me to be reverting to their Italian managed roots, with an increasing tendency to confusion and cock ups. Are they about to return to their non glory days of the 80's and 90's? (With apologies to any Italian readers out there.)

Rodrigo · Post by **Rodrigo** » 11 Apr 2009, 23:03

The real question to me is, how many cock ups can Domenically can make before Montezemolo decides to strap him to a rocket and launch him to the Moon.

BB01 · Post by **BB01** » 12 Apr 2009, 01:40

I have to say, the thought crossed my mind, too. It would be rather silly to hire people based on their nationality, rather than their skills, so I hope it isn't the case.

Gary Shavit · Post by **Gary Shavit** » 12 Apr 2009, 07:03

This has been clear for a few years already. Last year's implementation of the electronic lollipop is a good example. But I wouldn’t say that bringing another German driver to replace Schumacher (let’s say Sebatian Vettel) another Englishman to replace Brawn and another Frenchman to replace Todd, that the “Italianization” would stop. I think that the uncommon efficiency of Ferrari a few years back was the affect of the Big Three’s personality, not their nationality.

razta · Post by **razta** » 12 Apr 2009, 07:08

I was gonna say that.. and i feel the same, FERRARI are becoming Italian..Bring Stepney in! :lol:

StoneColdSpider · Post by **StoneColdSpider** » 12 Apr 2009, 07:35

we could call them "Andrea Moda" and no one could tell the difference thats how many cockups they are making recently!!!!
the way things are going i could see them sending Raikkonen or Massa out with no oil in the engine...

Ross Prawn · Post by **Ross Prawn** » 12 Apr 2009, 09:35

Thing is, I quite like it. I feel its much better to have team with some character rather than the Darth Vader-like winning machine of recent years. When Massa when off down the pit lane dragging half a mile of fuel pipes, I thought 'Wow, that's cool'. And this weeks events: trying to burn Kimi to death with KERS, not bothering to qualify Massa, and Kimi sodding off for an ice cream before the restart - were all similarly inspired.

And I like to see Domenicali smiling as he explains the latest cock up and says its unacceptable. And you know once he gets off camera he'll just shrug and go off for some nice pasta and red wine. (Probably not going for dinner with Luca though.)

This is how F1 should be.

Ferrari now need two charismatic drivers, who will drive with great gusto, but be doomed to underachieve. Presuming Alesi and Berger do not want to come back, who are the ideal candidates for the evolving Ferrari team?

I'd say Mark Webber for one, great guy, always tries his heart out, not especially lucky. And Sato, great heart, always up for a scrap - the Italians would love him.

LionZoo · Post by **LionZoo** » 12 Apr 2009, 10:29

Sato driving for Ferrari would make my day. Then again Sato driving for anyone these days would make my day.

Debaser · Post by **Debaser** » 12 Apr 2009, 12:56

I far prefer the current chaotic Ferrari compared to the Ferrari winning machine.Cock ups are becoming commonplace at Ferrari-Putting wet tyres on a car on a bone dry track??? Massa's a fiery driver who Ferrari have been loyal too,they need either an Italian driver or a real hard charger and they're back to 94/95 with Alesi and Berger being popular and endearingly unlucky while still being a chaotic organisation (Monza 95 a camera came off Alesi's car, hit Berger's and took him out-How unlucky is that?).Welcome back pre-1996 Ferrari, we welcome you with open arms.

Ross Prawn · Post by **Ross Prawn** » 12 Apr 2009, 14:20

Ferrari have been historically unwilling to take on Italian drivers. I think there is some history there from Enzo days.

CarlosFerreira · Post by **CarlosFerreira** » 12 Apr 2009, 18:17

Ross Prawn wrote:Thing is, I quite like it. I feel its much better to have team with some character rather than the Darth Vader-like winning machine of recent years. When Massa when off down the pit lane dragging half a mile of fuel pipes, I thought 'Wow, that's cool'. And this weeks events: trying to burn Kimi to death with KERS, not bothering to qualify Massa, and Kimi sodding off for an ice cream before the restart - were all similarly inspired.

And I like to see Domenicali smiling as he explains the latest cock up and says its unacceptable. And you know once he gets off camera he'll just shrug and go off for some nice pasta and red wine. (Probably not going for dinner with Luca though.)

This is how F1 should be.

Ferrari now need two charismatic drivers, who will drive with great gusto, but be doomed to underachieve. Presuming Alesi and Berger do not want to come back, who are the ideal candidates for the evolving Ferrari team?

I'd say Mark Webber for one, great guy, always tries his heart out, not especially lucky. And Sato, great heart, always up for a scrap - the Italians would love him.

I would like to nominate post of the month (or year, or week or what have you). Webber and Sato in Ferrari, now! :geek:

jonnyeol · Post by **jonnyeol** » 12 Apr 2009, 19:42

When they change the tone of red they use back to the Italian Racing Red (last seen in 1995) rather than Marlboro Red/Orange, then I'll believe it.

Henrique · Post by **Henrique** » 13 Apr 2009, 02:39

It would be great if they now hired Trulli and Fisichella. At least Fisichella, just to go back to the good old days when he always said "I'm gonna fight for the title" at the start of the season.

XurizManson · Post by **XurizManson** » 13 Apr 2009, 03:48

All we can say is: 'Ferrari for ROTY' ! Too bad for the talented, but unlucky Massa.

Nin13 · Post by **Nin13** » 13 Apr 2009, 09:49

This is what is in my mind too. There is ITALIANISATION of Ferrari

...... Now only if they can find good Italian drivers

and continue onto path of failure...........

They are going in wrong direction.

Rodrigo · Post by **Rodrigo** » 14 Apr 2009, 02:22

Aaaaaaaaaaaaand the first ragazzo bites the dust:

http://www.formula1blog.com/2009/04/13/ ... ying-home/

minrdi · Post by **minrdi** » 14 Apr 2009, 05:14

Well, Luca Baldisseri has just been "reassigned" and now Chris Dyer is going to be in charge of on-track management as of the Chinese GP:

http://www.itv-f1.com/News_Article.aspx?id=45543

Plus, I also read that Luca de Montezemelo had a crisis meeting with the Ferrari head honchos after the Malaysian GP, and dressed in a monk's cape! He claimed that he wanted to instil a sense of humility in his charges, but I frankly think it's hilarious. This is rapidly looking like Ferrari is returning to its late 80s to early 90s days, at least in terms of its management style!!!

Gumby · Post by **Gumby** » 14 Apr 2009, 07:51

I too am salivating with delight at the situation Ferrari are currently in... Reminds me of the glory days of Formula One - The eighties !! Oh, those were the days - Ferrari were spending millions on never ending personnel changes and misguided design and technical direction. All to be easily out performed by much smaller(mostly Brittish) teams. Cosworth equipped cars running rings around the turbo teams... Ferrari's mobile chicanes. Oh the memories :lol:

I so hope that Brawn and Ferrari's fortunes continue in this retro trend.

Cheers G

Ross Prawn · Post by **Ross Prawn** » 14 Apr 2009, 20:34

minrdi wrote:
Plus, I also read that Luca de Montezemelo had a crisis meeting with the Ferrari head honchos after the Malaysian GP, and dressed in a monk's cape!

True apparently. And announced it to the press afterwards. This does get better and better.

Maybe it was really a Vader cape and he was doing the 'You have failed me for last time.....' speech.

Can be seen here perfecting his jedi death grip

RejectSteve · Post by **RejectSteve** » 14 Apr 2009, 20:37

"Our chance of winning is this big."

ImissJORDAN · Post by **ImissJORDAN** » 15 Apr 2009, 18:41

Ross Prawn wrote:Thing is, I quite like it. I feel its much better to have team with some character rather than the Darth Vader-like winning machine of recent years. When Massa when off down the pit lane dragging half a mile of fuel pipes, I thought 'Wow, that's cool'. And this weeks events: trying to burn Kimi to death with KERS, not bothering to qualify Massa, and Kimi sodding off for an ice cream before the restart - were all similarly inspired.

...

I'd say Mark Webber for one, great guy, always tries his heart out, not especially lucky. And Sato, great heart, always up for a scrap - the Italians would love him.

Best forum post I've seen in a long while on any forum.

I like chaotic Ferrari too, as demonstrated best by Alesi and Capelli in 1992. So I agree with your principles of picking evocative, makeweight/unlucky/erratic drivers for the Scuderia, but I feel we should have an underperforming Italian there in tribute to 1992, alongside a better, non-Italian, but characteristically unlucky/erratic driver.

So, Liuzzi-Rosberg at ferrari, anyone?

Barbazza · Post by **Barbazza** » 15 Apr 2009, 19:13

What's Gianmaria Bruni doing these days? He's probably free....

Ross Prawn · Post by **Ross Prawn** » 15 Apr 2009, 20:56

ImissJORDAN wrote: So I agree with your principles of picking evocative, makeweight/unlucky/erratic drivers for the Scuderia, but I feel we should have an underperforming Italian there in tribute to 1992, alongside a better, non-Italian, but characteristically unlucky/erratic driver.

I didn't say we should have makeweight drivers at Ferrari. We should have great, charismatic, charging drivers who love having a go. Its just that they will doomed by the evolving team culture. Gilles, Alboreto and Alesi are perfect role models. Rubens would have been great if he hadn't ended up with the role of being Schumi's valet.

Ferrari don't generally employ Italian drivers. I think they worry that the Italian press frenzy would get so great that the driver will be put under too much pressure. (Perhaps Ron Dennis should have thought about this in the UK.)

Henrique · Post by **Henrique** » 15 Apr 2009, 21:13

Barbazza wrote:What's Gianmaria Bruni doing these days? He's probably free....

Luca Badoer comes first.

thehemogoblin · Post by **thehemogoblin** » 15 Apr 2009, 23:33

Henrique wrote:
Barbazza wrote:What's Gianmaria Bruni doing these days? He's probably free....

Luca Badoer comes first.

Pretty sure that past events have established that short of Badoer being the last man with a superlicense on the face of this planet, he'll never get into a grand prix for Ferrari.

UberOwnage · Post by **UberOwnage** » 16 Apr 2009, 06:26

F1 is cyclical, they'll get it right. The question is when?

TomWazzleshaw · Post by **TomWazzleshaw** » 16 Apr 2009, 09:36

UberOwnage wrote:F1 is cyclical, they'll get it right. The question is when?

Last time they screwed up they took 21 years to get it right. I'm hoping it would be for a similar time but they'll be back on their feet within 5-6 years

PayasYouDNPQ · Post by **PayasYouDNPQ** » 16 Apr 2009, 09:46

Debaser wrote:I far prefer the current chaotic Ferrari compared to the Ferrari winning machine.Cock ups are becoming commonplace at Ferrari-Putting wet tyres on a car on a bone dry track??? Massa's a fiery driver who Ferrari have been loyal too,they need either an Italian driver or a real hard charger and they're back to 94/95 with Alesi and Berger being popular and endearingly unlucky while still being a chaotic organisation (Monza 95 a camera came off Alesi's car, hit Berger's and took him out-How unlucky is that?).Welcome back pre-1996 Ferrari, we welcome you with open arms.

Me too. It must be a product of when I started watching F1 but I've always felt Ferrari should be near but not at the front of the grid, making all sorts of mistakes but occasionally having a weekend where it all goes right and they win. Mansell's wins in 1989 or Berger in Germany in 1994 have so much more meaning for me than endless Schumacher, Barrichello 1-2s.

noisebox · Post by **noisebox** » 17 Apr 2009, 10:39

Just to go off on a bit of a tangent - they are running this weekend with a message of support for the Italian earthquake victims which is a nice touch.

Jack O Malley · Post by **Jack O Malley** » 17 Apr 2009, 11:54

Ross Prawn wrote:In the last decade Ferrari was an international super team with ruthless French management, a ruthless German driver and a great technical team assembled from the ends of the earth. But nowadays they seem to me to be reverting to their Italian managed roots, with an increasing tendency to confusion and cock ups. Are they about to return to their non glory days of the 80's and 90's? (With apologies to any Italian readers out there.)

I must admit that the majority of italian people is very prone to confusion and disorganization, as the country itself is. By the way, I don't think that the latest italianization of the Ferrari Team is to blame for the increasing "cock ups" of the post-schumbrawntodt era (not to speak about the 2009 ridiculous performances!). I'd rather think that the loss of such experienced men has played a big, bad role on organization, lowering the team's morale as well.
The fact that people like Brawn and Todt were NOT italian, well, may just be a coincidence (or may not, indeed

)

CarlosFerreira · Post by **CarlosFerreira** » 18 Apr 2009, 10:09

minrdi wrote:Well, Luca Baldisseri has just been "reassigned" and now Chris Dyer is going to be in charge of on-track management as of the Chinese GP:

http://www.itv-f1.com/News_Article.aspx?id=45543

Plus, I also read that Luca de Montezemelo had a crisis meeting with the Ferrari head honchos after the Malaysian GP, and dressed in a monk's cape! He claimed that he wanted to instil a sense of humility in his charges, but I frankly think it's hilarious. This is rapidly looking like Ferrari is returning to its late 80s to early 90s days, at least in terms of its management style!!!

He did what?! Unbelievable! That's it, I'm buying a cavallino t-shirt and applying for the Ferrari fan club.

Ross Prawn · Post by **Ross Prawn** » 18 Apr 2009, 11:54

I wonder what costume Luca has ordered for this Monday's meeting?

CarlosFerreira · Post by **CarlosFerreira** » 18 Apr 2009, 12:24

Ross Prawn wrote:I wonder what costume Luca has ordered for this Monday's meeting?

Ross Prawn · Post by **Ross Prawn** » 18 Apr 2009, 12:33

Henrique · Post by **Henrique** » 19 Apr 2009, 10:42

"We must defeat our rival this season: Force India!"

CarlosFerreira · Post by **CarlosFerreira** » 19 Apr 2009, 10:48

Some more interesting signs that all's not well, even in the tech side:
- no interim diffuser; McLaren and Renault had new designs this weekend
- only team using KERS that had problems with it during a GP
- no new aero parts besides the diffuser; McLaren had a new front wing
- DNF for Massa for mechanical reasons.

Ferrari used to have tech advantage. Now, not even that? This should be amusing. 3 races, no points - clocks are ticking.

TomWazzleshaw · Post by **TomWazzleshaw** » 19 Apr 2009, 13:13

Why do I suddenly see Piquet Jr fitting well with the current Ferrari team? :lol:

Nin13 · Post by **Nin13** » 19 Apr 2009, 13:35

Henrique wrote:"We must defeat our rival this season: Force India!"

I expect tough battle between Force India and Ferrari this year which will be great for us.

Ross Prawn · Post by **Ross Prawn** » 19 Apr 2009, 20:39

Maybe they need a new team manager to whip them into shape.

I hear Ron Dennis is lokking for a job ................

alvaro3d · Post by **alvaro3d** » 22 Apr 2009, 13:27

They are testing young italian drivers now

http://www.formula1.com/news/headlines/2009/4/9223.html