2012 Silly Season

DanielPT · Post by **DanielPT** » 15 Jan 2012, 15:09

Minardi Man wrote:
DanielPT wrote:
Phoenix wrote:This is bollocks. Ceccon is only 18 and has very little experience. Does he bring substantial economic backing with him? Because otherwise I think it's unthinkable any F1 team would be interested in his services. Otherwise, I think it's more advisable for him that he bides his time and enjoys the pleasure of driving competitively in feeder categories. He's still too young, and he'd risk burning his prospects too quickly.

That reminds me of when those crazy guys at STR brought in a 19 year old Alguersuari in...

Who you can argue was not ready for F1 in his first year, and of course that was SRT, not HRT, I doubt HRT will be anywhere near as good at developing young drivers within their team, and Ceccon is more likely to harm his reputation driving a HRT alongside the much more experienced and consistent de la rossa, while Alguersuari had arguably an easier teammate for a yardstick.

De la Rosa is not really a fast driver. Although he is very consistent and solid. That should be a good yardstick. The problem with Ceccon is that he, unlike The Saurus, hasn't been setting the world alight in the lower formulas. If the kid comes in, it will probably wreck a second chance somewhere in the future where the guy is more prepared. In the end though, I bet he would only be there because of the money.

Klon · Post by **Klon** » 15 Jan 2012, 15:35

Phoenix wrote:This is bollocks. Ceccon is only 18 and has very little experience. Does he bring substantial economic backing with him? Because otherwise I think it's unthinkable any F1 team would be interested in his services. Otherwise, I think it's more advisable for him that he bides his time and enjoys the pleasure of driving competitively in feeder categories. He's still too young, and he'd risk burning his prospects too quickly.

The thing is - his career as of know doesn't really imply that he has that many prospects. He is one of those guys that must take their chance when offered even if it ends in him ending up nowhere.

Nessafox · Post by **Nessafox** » 15 Jan 2012, 19:31

Minardi Man wrote:Who you can argue was not ready for F1 in his first year, and of course that was SRT

I can't remember Alguersuari driving for Selleslagh Racing Team (FIA GT)

Post by **DemocalypseNow** » 15 Jan 2012, 19:58

This wrote:
Minardi Man wrote:Who you can argue was not ready for F1 in his first year, and of course that was SRT
I can't remember Alguersuari driving for Selleslagh Racing Team (FIA GT)

Isn't that the team of F1 reject Christophe Bouchut? (Or more like Reject-that-never-was, considering Larrousse pulled out before he ever got to turn a wheel in anger).

Post by **mario** » 15 Jan 2012, 20:05

Phoenix wrote:This is bollocks. Ceccon is only 18 and has very little experience. Does he bring substantial economic backing with him? Because otherwise I think it's unthinkable any F1 team would be interested in his services. Otherwise, I think it's more advisable for him that he bides his time and enjoys the pleasure of driving competitively in feeder categories. He's still too young, and he'd risk burning his prospects too quickly.

If he has some financial backing then there may be a slim chance he could wind up as a reserve driver, much in the same way that Gutiérrez is the reserve driver at Sauber. Like Gutiérrez, he'd probably only be offered the role if there was only a low chance that the team would be forced to promote him (the fact that Gutiérrez was passed over at Sauber for De La Rosa because he was not experienced enough - and that is despite accruing more experience in lower ranks - suggests that Ceccon is unlikely to be considered for a front line drive).
Yes, I am aware that in the past teams have gambled on inexperienced drivers, but right now the teams are becoming much more conservative in their choice of drivers - after all, HRT went with De La Rosa for their first seat, which was a surprising but ultimately quite conservative choice given De La Rosa is a relatively steady performer. They might feel they can take a few more risks on a rookie driver, but when there are a number of experienced drivers on the market who may be willing to compromise quite a bit to stay within the sport, the team can afford to be selective to a certain extent.

Nessafox · Post by **Nessafox** » 15 Jan 2012, 20:11

kostas22 wrote:
This wrote:
Minardi Man wrote:Who you can argue was not ready for F1 in his first year, and of course that was SRT
I can't remember Alguersuari driving for Selleslagh Racing Team (FIA GT)

Isn't that the team of F1 reject Christophe Bouchut? (Or more like Reject-that-never-was, considering Larrousse pulled out before he ever got to turn a wheel in anger).

It's not his team, but he drove for that team quite often yes.

RonDenisDeletraz · Post by **RonDenisDeletraz** » 15 Jan 2012, 22:23

AdrianSutil wrote:It's because he only posts in one-line form, pushing his post count higher up with no real effort.

I found this comment quite rude considering how long it takes type on my phone, so it is really tedious to post anything long therefore 85% of my posts are pure crap.

Captain Hammer was right about my original post being poorly worded though.

Now, to get this thread back on topic, I don't think Petrov will go to Caterham.

fjackdaw · Post by **fjackdaw** » 15 Jan 2012, 23:35

eurobrun wrote:
AdrianSutil wrote:It's because he only posts in one-line form, pushing his post count higher up with no real effort.

I found this comment quite rude considering how long it takes type on my phone, so it is really tedious to post anything long therefore 85% of my posts are pure crap.

Hey, at least he didn't glass you in the jugular.

RonDenisDeletraz · Post by **RonDenisDeletraz** » 15 Jan 2012, 23:38

fjackdaw wrote:
eurobrun wrote:
AdrianSutil wrote:It's because he only posts in one-line form, pushing his post count higher up with no real effort.

I found this comment quite rude considering how long it takes type on my phone, so it is really tedious to post anything long therefore 85% of my posts are pure crap.

Hey, at least he didn't glass you in the jugular.

You just won this thread.

TomWazzleshaw · Post by **TomWazzleshaw** » 15 Jan 2012, 23:41

DanielPT wrote:
Minardi Man wrote:
DanielPT wrote:
That reminds me of when those crazy guys at STR brought in a 19 year old Alguersuari in...

Who you can argue was not ready for F1 in his first year, and of course that was SRT, not HRT, I doubt HRT will be anywhere near as good at developing young drivers within their team, and Ceccon is more likely to harm his reputation driving a HRT alongside the much more experienced and consistent de la rossa, while Alguersuari had arguably an easier teammate for a yardstick.

De la Rosa is not really a fast driver. Although he is very consistent and solid. That should be a good yardstick. The problem with Ceccon is that he, unlike The Saurus, hasn't been setting the world alight in the lower formulas. If the kid comes in, it will probably wreck a second chance somewhere in the future where the guy is more prepared. In the end though, I bet he would only be there because of the money.

Alguersuari never set the world on fire in the junior categories. Neither did Sebastian Vettel for that matter :lol:

DanielPT · Post by **DanielPT** » 16 Jan 2012, 12:13

Wizzie wrote:
DanielPT wrote:

De la Rosa is not really a fast driver. Although he is very consistent and solid. That should be a good yardstick. The problem with Ceccon is that he, unlike The Saurus, hasn't been setting the world alight in the lower formulas. If the kid comes in, it will probably wreck a second chance somewhere in the future where the guy is more prepared. In the end though, I bet he would only be there because of the money.

Alguersuari never set the world on fire in the junior categories. Neither did Sebastian Vettel for that matter

They didn't? Perhaps not like Hamilton, but then, who did have a career similar to Hamilton in lower formulae in recent years/decade?

Alguersuari won the FR2.0 Italia winter series (not much, granted) and was second in his second year of FR2.0 Italia. He won the British F3 against Turvey and Perez (the one driving a Sauber) in a good year. Although he fared not too good in his first year in FR3.5 he was already driving for STR. Vettel, won Formula BWM in crushing fashion and Buemi was 3rd on that year. He was 3rd in Macau the year (Di Grassi won that year) and was second in F3 Euro series in 2006 behind Di Resta and a few other former or current F1 drivers. In his last year of lower formula, in his first full year (2007) in FR3.5, he was on route to win that thing when he went to F1 forfeiting more than half the championship. Still finished 5th though. Yes, they didn't set the world alight Hamilton-like, but they weren't that crap either. Ceccon had a fairly anonymous career until now (he won a rather unknown quantity of AutoGP). He is still young though and could fare better in given time (which perhaps they won't).

Jeroen Krautmeir · Post by **Jeroen Krautmeir** » 17 Jan 2012, 12:18

Williams confirms Senna

DanielPT · Post by **DanielPT** » 17 Jan 2012, 13:05

Only 1.5 seats open (that Trulli somewhat confirmed seat and the HRT). For the HRT it's the chair game now (except no one who has driven in F1 wants to sit on it).

S951 · Post by **S951** » 17 Jan 2012, 13:25

rubens for HRT!!

fjackdaw · Post by **fjackdaw** » 17 Jan 2012, 14:19

nome66 wrote:ok how about Senna to anywhere but Williams because his family requested he not sign with that team. how do you guys disregard that?

Quite easily.

DanielPT · Post by **DanielPT** » 17 Jan 2012, 15:22

fjackdaw wrote:
nome66 wrote:ok how about Senna to anywhere but Williams because his family requested he not sign with that team. how do you guys disregard that?

Quite easily.

Apparently Senna and Williams also disregarded this quite easily...

Post by **mario** » 17 Jan 2012, 17:15

DanielPT wrote:
fjackdaw wrote:
nome66 wrote:ok how about Senna to anywhere but Williams because his family requested he not sign with that team. how do you guys disregard that?

Quite easily.

Apparently Senna and Williams also disregarded this quite easily...

It seems that Bruno Senna is claiming that he now has the support of his family

Reflecting on the emotions of driving for the team that has carried the badge of his uncle ever since that Imola weekend, Bruno said: "I believe that things happen in life for a reason, but there is no negativity from my family. They are thrilled about it.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/97061

I wonder what has changed between the earlier comments and now that has seen his family go from being uneasy to supporting his drive for Williams?

fjackdaw · Post by **fjackdaw** » 17 Jan 2012, 17:17

mario wrote:

I wonder what has changed between the earlier comments and now that has seen his family go from being uneasy to supporting his drive for Williams?

"If I don't take this, I ain't got a job".

Aerond · Post by **Aerond** » 17 Jan 2012, 17:40

Is it just me or HRT is now in a really strong position to choose their second driver and form a good match to De la Rosa??
Ok, not every name is valid, as Alguersuari (because he won´t want nor have the money) or Barrichello (as they already have a vastly experienced driver) won´t be likely choices, but the list of drivers who may want to give the 2nd HRT seat a shot is just scary: Alguersuari, Barrichello, Sutil, Petrov, Buemi (Red Bull might just want to keep him racing while he´s the third driver) and all the youngsters out there... Maybe waiting until every other seat was occupied wasn´t such a bad idea...

QuickYoda41 · Post by **QuickYoda41** » 17 Jan 2012, 18:39

The saddest thing is that it will be actually Williams with the worst line-up on the grid. :shock:

Post by **mario** » 17 Jan 2012, 20:35

fjackdaw wrote:
mario wrote:

I wonder what has changed between the earlier comments and now that has seen his family go from being uneasy to supporting his drive for Williams?

"If I don't take this, I ain't got a job".

Except Boullier had indicated quite strongly that he would be prepared to keep him as a reserve driver, and it is worth noting that Bruno originally seemed to think that would be his best shot at a seat for 2012, not driving for Williams.

FullMetalJack · Post by **FullMetalJack** » 17 Jan 2012, 20:45

QuickYoda41 wrote:The saddest thing is that it will be actually Williams with the worst line-up on the grid.

Unless HRT keep Karthikeyan. Then it'll be close.

Aerospeed · Post by **Aerospeed** » 17 Jan 2012, 21:34

QuickYoda41 wrote:The saddest thing is that it will be actually Williams with the worst line-up on the grid.

Seconded. Sadly I think Sutil's career is now at an end with thus news...

It's obvious that both drivers on Williams are pay-drivers. Williams is going down in flames...

FullMetalJack · Post by **FullMetalJack** » 17 Jan 2012, 21:39

JeremyMcClean wrote:It's obvious that both drivers on Williams are pay-drivers. Williams is going down in flames...

Why does every sporting team I love have to literally go down the shitter financially?

Jeroen Krautmeir · Post by **Jeroen Krautmeir** » 17 Jan 2012, 22:21

redbulljack14 wrote:
JeremyMcClean wrote:It's obvious that both drivers on Williams are pay-drivers. Williams is going down in flames...

Why does every sporting team I love have to literally go down the shitter financially?

Go support Red Bull! :lol:

Aerospeed · Post by **Aerospeed** » 17 Jan 2012, 22:39

Jeroen Krautmeir wrote:
redbulljack14 wrote:
JeremyMcClean wrote:It's obvious that both drivers on Williams are pay-drivers. Williams is going down in flames...

Why does every sporting team I love have to literally go down the shitter financially?

Go support Ferrari!

Fixed.

I don't know where to put this, here or the "unpopular opinions" thread.

FullMetalJack · Post by **FullMetalJack** » 17 Jan 2012, 23:14

JeremyMcClean wrote:
Jeroen Krautmeir wrote:
redbulljack14 wrote:
Why does every sporting team I love have to literally go down the shitter financially?

Go support McLaren!

Fixed.

Fixed again, I don't really like McLaren, except Jenson Button, he's my favourite driver.

Phoenix · Post by **Phoenix** » 17 Jan 2012, 23:39

redbulljack14 wrote:
Why does every sporting team I love have to literally go down the shitter financially?

Go support Bernie Ecclestone! :lol:

[/quote]

Fixed again. I know Bernie Ecclestone doesn't have a racing team anymore, but never mind, just support him.

DanielPT · Post by **DanielPT** » 18 Jan 2012, 11:52

Phoenix wrote:
redbulljack14 wrote:
Why does every sporting team I love have to literally go down the shitter financially?

Go support Bernie Ecclestone!

Fixed again. I know Bernie Ecclestone doesn't have a racing team anymore, but never mind, just support him.[/quote]

That would need events of epic proportions for Bernie to go down the shitter financially.

James1978 · Post by **James1978** » 18 Jan 2012, 12:19

I really hope Barrichello doesn't try and get the HRT seat. It'll be a sad memory of his Ferrari days and even Brawn in 2009, and "Hang up the Keys" if he does!! (Plus the team's combined age will be over 80 :lol:

)

TomWazzleshaw · Post by **TomWazzleshaw** » 18 Jan 2012, 12:22

James1978 wrote:(Plus the team's combined age will be over 80 )

And for that reason alone, Barrichello to HRT sounds like a great idea :lol:

tristan1117 · Post by **tristan1117** » 19 Jan 2012, 12:48

http://www.planetf1.com/driver/18227/7441732/Van-der-Garde-eyes-six-million-seat

6 million euros!?

Aerond · Post by **Aerond** » 19 Jan 2012, 13:22

tristan1117 wrote:http://www.planetf1.com/driver/18227/7441732/Van-der-Garde-eyes-six-million-seat

6 million euros!?

It doesn´t seem THAT much, given Senna is rumoured to bring 20$ million to Williams.

fjackdaw · Post by **fjackdaw** » 19 Jan 2012, 14:57

It may be old news, but it was reported by Sky on the 8th that Jaime has already turned down HRT.

Post by **mario** » 19 Jan 2012, 15:28

Aerond wrote:
tristan1117 wrote:http://www.planetf1.com/driver/18227/7441732/Van-der-Garde-eyes-six-million-seat

6 million euros!?

It doesn´t seem THAT much, given Senna is rumoured to bring 20$ million to Williams.

There were the comments that Razia made during the Brazilian GP when talking to Eddie Jordan after EJ, in his characteristically blunt way, asked Razia how much sponsorship a driver would require to break into F1.
IIRC, Razia suggested that about $6-7 million would probably be about the sort of figure required for a back marker, so the suggestion that HRT are asking €6 million (which would be about $7.7 million) is probably not all that far off. As to whether Van Der Garde is actually in the frame, that is another debate - there have been a number of drivers linked with HRT in recent weeks to the point where it's hard to know who will actually get the position.

DanielPT · Post by **DanielPT** » 19 Jan 2012, 15:32

mario wrote:
Aerond wrote:
tristan1117 wrote:http://www.planetf1.com/driver/18227/7441732/Van-der-Garde-eyes-six-million-seat

6 million euros!?

It doesn´t seem THAT much, given Senna is rumoured to bring 20$ million to Williams.

There were the comments that Razia made during the Brazilian GP when talking to Eddie Jordan after EJ, in his characteristically blunt way, asked Razia how much sponsorship a driver would require to break into F1.
IIRC, Razia suggested that about $6-7 million would probably be about the sort of figure required for a back marker, so the suggestion that HRT are asking €6 million (which would be about $7.7 million) is probably not all that far off. As to whether Van Der Garde is actually in the frame, that is another debate - there have been a number of drivers linked with HRT in recent weeks to the point where it's hard to know who will actually get the position.

I am already missing Colin Kolles at this point because I have a gut feeling that HRT will chose a sensible option and not go into cheer lunacy and pick someone we barely heard of full of cash and rejectfulness. Leave home and come back Colin, you are forgiven!

Phoenix · Post by **Phoenix** » 19 Jan 2012, 17:44

Unless HRT pulls off a surprise and signs Petrov, I can pretty much see van der Garde there - he's relatively young and has the cash.

S951 · Post by **S951** » 19 Jan 2012, 17:54

petrov in a hrt that means batttlle commenccee!! with mvr

solarcold · Post by **solarcold** » 19 Jan 2012, 18:03

I truely hope for HRT... Because otherwise he'll be Trulli's backup guy in caterham.

DanielPT · Post by **DanielPT** » 19 Jan 2012, 18:03

S951 wrote:petrov in a hrt that means batttlle commenccee!! with mvr

Literal battle in Petrov's case.