jarno leaves.... no italian in f1!

karsten · Post by **karsten** » 17 Feb 2012, 11:03

Never happened in the last 40 years, and only 3 times since f1 exists...

i feel a little sad.

Paul Hayes · Post by **Paul Hayes** » 17 Feb 2012, 11:45

Poor old Jarno. Hard to believe it's nearly 15 years since he burst onto the F1 scene like a firework... Very much a Jean Alesi type career - such a spectacular start, so much talent, so many people thinking he was a potential champion, but only one win to show for it.

Post by **DemocalypseNow** » 17 Feb 2012, 11:51

The future is not bright for Italy either. Not really any sensational talents coming through the junior ranks right now. Davide Valsecchi of all people looks the most likely Italian to make the step up to F1, and it's not like he's set the world on fire lately. Or maybe Daniel Zampieri, but he's got a couple of years yet to move all the way up the racing ladder.

TomWazzleshaw · Post by **TomWazzleshaw** » 17 Feb 2012, 11:55

kostas22 wrote:The future is not bright for Italy either. Not really any sensational talents coming through the junior ranks right now. Davide Valsecchi of all people looks the most likely Italian to make the step up to F1, and it's not like he's set the world on fire lately. Or maybe Daniel Zampieri, but he's got a couple of years yet to move all the way up the racing ladder.

Plus, if Luca Filippi was ever to move up from GP2, he would have done so years ago.

karsten · Post by **karsten** » 17 Feb 2012, 11:56

Sadly seems there's no place for Italy beside Ferrari in F1... The time of the many italian constructors vanished and so the many talents growing.

bye bye minardi, alfa, dallara, lambo, coloni, osella, scuderia italia, Life, andrea moda... (degrading order is chosen on purpouse

) and all the talented or not so talented frivers. i Miss those times!

DanielPT · Post by **DanielPT** » 17 Feb 2012, 12:05

kostas22 wrote:The future is not bright for Italy either. Not really any sensational talents coming through the junior ranks right now. Davide Valsecchi of all people looks the most likely Italian to make the step up to F1, and it's not like he's set the world on fire lately. Or maybe Daniel Zampieri, but he's got a couple of years yet to move all the way up the racing ladder.

Eduardo Mortara was a good prospect but he went DTM way and people stopped speaking about him a bit... Caldarelli could be another chance but he went to Formula Nippon to get beaten by none other than Kazuki Nakajima. It isn't good times for Italy, motorsport releated, at the moment...

TomWazzleshaw · Post by **TomWazzleshaw** » 17 Feb 2012, 12:06

It still boggles me that the last time an Italian won the world championship was 1953, almost 60 years ago. Especially when we've had so many Italians come and go in the sport since then.

DanielPT · Post by **DanielPT** » 17 Feb 2012, 12:13

Wizzie wrote:It still boggles me that the last time an Italian won the world championship was 1953, almost 60 years ago. Especially when we've had so many Italians come and go in the sport since then.

And one of the major teams is Italian. Oh, and historically Italian manufacturers were very powerful and won many races. The F1 origins and even the first seasons are all full of tales about the great Italians constructors like Alfa, Maserati and Ferrari. Not to mention that one of the best racing drivers of all time, Nuvolari, was Italian... Things change quickly, so in 50 years, perhaps, we can be talking about the how the Italians have dominated F1 since, maybe, 2020

. (Can't see it sooner...)

fjackdaw · Post by **fjackdaw** » 17 Feb 2012, 13:08

Also, goodbye to the '90s. Only Michael Schumacher is left, and he seems somehow above these things.

But hello France - three French drivers on the grid at the start of the season, that has to be the most for some time. When was the last time we had three or more Frenchmen start an F1 season? 1995?

DanielPT · Post by **DanielPT** » 17 Feb 2012, 13:15

fjackdaw wrote:Also, goodbye to the '90s. Only Michael Schumacher is left, and he seems somehow above these things.

Damn... Didn't thought about that yet. I am now nostalgic.

karsten · Post by **karsten** » 17 Feb 2012, 13:24

and i guess the last italian fighting for something or relevance in WC was Alboreto...

James1978 · Post by **James1978** » 17 Feb 2012, 13:26

fjackdaw wrote:Also, goodbye to the '90s. Only Michael Schumacher is left, and he seems somehow above these things.

There's De La Rosa as well.

fjackdaw · Post by **fjackdaw** » 17 Feb 2012, 13:32

James1978 wrote:
fjackdaw wrote:Also, goodbye to the '90s. Only Michael Schumacher is left, and he seems somehow above these things.

There's De La Rosa as well.

Gosh, yes, sorry, I forgot about him.

CoopsII · Post by **CoopsII** » 17 Feb 2012, 15:57

What was annoying about Trulli (before he started being a Wine Bore) was that he was quick, if only in Quali. A real shame the genuine pace he could display on one lap he could never sustain for a full race. I wonder why that was? It was as if he got bored of doing it on a Sunday.

Guzuky · Post by **Guzuky** » 17 Feb 2012, 16:13

I share your feeling about no italians on F1 anymore, but Jarno was doing a disservice to the nation and if he was the only representation then is better for Italy to have none.

I think we're forgetting one italian, who is a record holder and raced on the 90's and 2010's LB!! Was he at the F2012 unveiling?

Guzuky · Post by **Guzuky** » 17 Feb 2012, 16:15

We should ask Enoch and Jaimie to do a retrospective on Jarno or italian drivers

Eryx · Post by **Eryx** » 17 Feb 2012, 17:01

Issit just me or is this sort of no surprise. . .Petrov is a fantastic driver and Trulli is just to moany and dull in F1 now granted in his hayday he was quick but the years really havent helped him. . .all he did was complain.

Post by **Londoner** » 17 Feb 2012, 17:27

DanielPT wrote:
fjackdaw wrote:Also, goodbye to the '90s. Only Michael Schumacher is left, and he seems somehow above these things.

Damn... Didn't thought about that yet. I am now nostalgic.

Bloody hell, I didn't realise that. That makes me sad as well

If we ignore the contiuation of teams under a different name/management, there's only three teams left who competed in the 90s, namely Ferrari, McLaren and Williams. Oh, and Sauber, but I don't know how that works out for them...

fjackdaw · Post by **fjackdaw** » 17 Feb 2012, 18:12

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/97562

Jarno, despite his moany-boots reputation, being nothing but a gentleman about his dismissal.

Post by **Londoner** » 17 Feb 2012, 18:30

So he managed to equal the once long-held record of race starts by Riccardo Patrese, another Italian...

DOSBoot · Post by **DOSBoot** » 17 Feb 2012, 18:34

Wizzie wrote:It still boggles me that the last time an Italian won the world championship was 1953, almost 60 years ago. Especially when we've had so many Italians come and go in the sport since then.

I guess Mario Andretti in 1978 technically counts. Although he won it as an American.

WeirdKerr · Post by **WeirdKerr** » 17 Feb 2012, 19:30

DOSBoot wrote:
Wizzie wrote:It still boggles me that the last time an Italian won the world championship was 1953, almost 60 years ago. Especially when we've had so many Italians come and go in the sport since then.

I guess Mario Andretti in 1978 technically counts. Although he won it as an American.

i think Mario Andretti was italian but moved to the states in the late 60s or early 70s?

karsten wrote:Never happened in the last 40 years, and only 3 times since f1 exists...

i feel a little sad.

late in the 1996 season i am sure there were no italians... oops forgot about jonny carwash....

karsten · Post by **karsten** » 17 Feb 2012, 19:43

fjackdaw wrote:
Jarno, despite his moany-boots reputation, being nothing but a gentleman about his dismissal.

Jarno got quite a bad reputation abroad for moaning, but i never heard him moaning on italian tv... Also all his complains were usually in a positive fashion, like "we had this and that, we tried this fix, heikky had it to (or didn't), the team is trying their best to fit the car to my driving" ecc ecc

I think that translated in english it sounds quite worse that it was

still having him around was "reassuring"... without him and barrichello around it would feel like somone stole all the curbs from a racetrack... the track's still there but something feels wrong

Post by **mario** » 17 Feb 2012, 20:04

WeirdKerr wrote:
DOSBoot wrote:
Wizzie wrote:It still boggles me that the last time an Italian won the world championship was 1953, almost 60 years ago. Especially when we've had so many Italians come and go in the sport since then.

I guess Mario Andretti in 1978 technically counts. Although he won it as an American.

i think Mario Andretti was italian but moved to the states in the late 60s or early 70s?

I believe that this question has come up before - anyway, Andretti's family was of Italian origin and his place of birth in Istria was formerly part of Italy (now part of Croatia), but he himself became a naturalised American citizen in 1964 and throughout his professional career I believe that he chose to compete with an American rather than an Italian racing licence. I guess that a comparison could be drawn with other historical figures like Lucien Bianchi - Lucien was also born and raised on Italian soil until his early teens (in his case in Milan), but like Mario his family chose to relocate to another nation (Belgium in his case) and in later life he chose to identify himself as Belgian rather than Italian.

Cynon · Post by **Cynon** » 17 Feb 2012, 20:58

Wizzie wrote:
kostas22 wrote:The future is not bright for Italy either. Not really any sensational talents coming through the junior ranks right now. Davide Valsecchi of all people looks the most likely Italian to make the step up to F1, and it's not like he's set the world on fire lately. Or maybe Daniel Zampieri, but he's got a couple of years yet to move all the way up the racing ladder.

Plus, if Luca Filippi was ever to move up from GP2, he would have done so years ago.

Luca Filippi's on his way to IndyCar with Bobby Rahal's team. If he had the sponsorship he would have moved up to F1, but he doesn't.

tristan1117 · Post by **tristan1117** » 17 Feb 2012, 22:42

Firsly, see you later Jarno, good luck in the future. I was a nominal Jarno fan while he was at Renault and Toyota but he lost my support after his whining over his crash with Sutil at Brazil 2009. It is quite ironic that both are now out of F1 and are unlikely to come back any time soon. On the subject of new Italian talent, the reigning Auto GP champ Kevin Ceccon has already had a test with STR. And we can always try to get Luca back!

DOSBoot · Post by **DOSBoot** » 17 Feb 2012, 23:05

mario wrote:
WeirdKerr wrote:
DOSBoot wrote:
I guess Mario Andretti in 1978 technically counts. Although he won it as an American.

i think Mario Andretti was italian but moved to the states in the late 60s or early 70s?

I believe that this question has come up before - anyway, Andretti's family was of Italian origin and his place of birth in Istria was formerly part of Italy (now part of Croatia), but he himself became a naturalised American citizen in 1964 and throughout his professional career I believe that he chose to compete with an American rather than an Italian racing licence. I guess that a comparison could be drawn with other historical figures like Lucien Bianchi - Lucien was also born and raised on Italian soil until his early teens (in his case in Milan), but like Mario his family chose to relocate to another nation (Belgium in his case) and in later life he chose to identify himself as Belgian rather than Italian.

What is interesting was that his win at the 1967 Daytona 500 credits him as both an Italian, and a Pennsylvanian. Even though he was already a U.S. citizen by then. Still, as of 2012, he is the only non U.S. born driver to win it.

lostpin · Post by **lostpin** » 18 Feb 2012, 00:38

Well... it was about time really. Overdue stuff.

David AGS · Post by **David AGS** » 18 Feb 2012, 05:01

Having met Jarno at autograph sessions, he is probably the most friendliest driver of them all, and he pretty much make sures that no one misses out. I have the pleasure of him signing my programme, and also the 'Forza Minardi' book.

Similar to previous posts, had a lot of potential, could/should of had more wins, and probably still will be known for his awesome quali laps, rather than a few decent results.

I hope Jarno is still around, like DTM or safety car driver etc, or he may go the 'quiet side' and head to his vineyard for good.

fjackdaw · Post by **fjackdaw** » 18 Feb 2012, 09:20

I heard Jarno is a nice guy too. Rubens has a moany reputation too, and is one of the nice ones.

Hey, maybe Vicky will be the next Italian in F1...

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/97565

rffp · Post by **rffp** » 18 Feb 2012, 10:34

And if Brazil does not get its act together, soon we will be left with no drivers too. To think that Italy had 8 or more drivers at a time in the starting grid, it is sad indeed.
As for Jarno, yes he had his moments but when did he look anything than a good but not great driver?

Mister Fungus · Post by **Mister Fungus** » 18 Feb 2012, 11:35

There are a couple of Brazilians coming through the ranks, Felipe Nasr being one of them. So even if Senna/Massa retire next year I don't think it'll be long until another Brazilian pops up. Italians on the other hand...

rffp · Post by **rffp** » 18 Feb 2012, 13:16

Mister Fungus wrote:There are a couple of Brazilians coming through the ranks, Felipe Nasr being one of them. So even if Senna/Massa retire next year I don't think it'll be long until another Brazilian pops up. Italians on the other hand...

Our single seater categories are shrinking every year and these guys that reach F-1 either do that through extraordinary talent and/or by having by having big sponsors. There is no existing structure to raise this drivers as there was in the late 80's and early 90's. If Nasr fails in GP2 it will be a problem, because I don't see either Massa or Senna having long careers as Rubens did.

AndreaModa · Post by **AndreaModa** » 18 Feb 2012, 13:28

These things go in cycles though, that much is clear. Even in the case of Great Britain, which has produced the most world champions, there have been pretty lean spells - right through the mid to late 1970s with the exception of James Hunt, and then right the way through the 1980s until Mansell came along (although John Watson had been around in that period to be fair).

France has recently had a very poor period, ever since Alesi and Panis cleared off there's been pretty much no-one making a decent attempt at F1 under the French flag, but that could be about to change now.

In contrast, Germany is experiencing it's most successful period in F1 ever - before Schumacher there was barely any German drivers worth mentioning.

The same can be said of Spain, I don't even know of any Spanish drivers before Adrian Campos! And since Alonso has come in, things have steadily improved.

Post by **mario** » 18 Feb 2012, 15:36

AndreaModa wrote:These things go in cycles though, that much is clear. Even in the case of Great Britain, which has produced the most world champions, there have been pretty lean spells - right through the mid to late 1970s with the exception of James Hunt, and then right the way through the 1980s until Mansell came along (although John Watson had been around in that period to be fair).

France has recently had a very poor period, ever since Alesi and Panis cleared off there's been pretty much no-one making a decent attempt at F1 under the French flag, but that could be about to change now.

In contrast, Germany is experiencing it's most successful period in F1 ever - before Schumacher there was barely any German drivers worth mentioning.

The same can be said of Spain, I don't even know of any Spanish drivers before Adrian Campos! And since Alonso has come in, things have steadily improved.

Since you mentioned it, I've taken a little look at the list of Spanish Formula 1 drivers and it is longer than I expected, though the gap between some of the entries is fairly large. The list that I have is as follows:
Fernando Alonso (2001 to today, 178 entries)
Jaime Alguersuari (2009-2011, 46 entries)
Pedro De La Rosa (1999-2002, 2005, 2006, 2010 to today (intermittently), 87 entries)
Marc Gene (1999-2000, 2003-2004, 36 entries)
Luis Perez-Sala (1988-1989, 32 entries)
Adrian Campos (1987-1988, 21 entries)
Emilio de Villota (1976-78, 1981-82, 15 entries)
Emilio Zapico (1976 - one entry for Williams in the Spanish GP with Laffite's old FW04 from 1975, although he only set the 27th fastest time and failed to qualify by 0.7s)
Alex Soler-Roig (1970-1972, driving for World Wide Racing (part of Team Lotus), March and BRM, with 10 entries in total and six starts)
Antonio Creus (1960, one entry with his privately entered Maserati 250F in the Argentine GP where he retired due to fatigue and electrical problems)
Alfonso de Portago (1956-57, five entries for Ferrari with two shared points finishes after he had to hand his car over to his team mates)
Paco Godia (1951, 1954-1958, 14 entries with privately entered Maserati's and two points finishes (two 4th's in the 1956 Italian and German GP's)
Juan Jover (1951, one entry for the Spanish GP but was forced to withdraw after blowing his engine before the start of the race)

WeirdKerr · Post by **WeirdKerr** » 18 Feb 2012, 20:20

David AGS wrote:Having met Jarno at autograph sessions, he is probably the most friendliest driver of them all, and he pretty much make sures that no one misses out. I have the pleasure of him signing my programme, and also the 'Forza Minardi' book.

Similar to previous posts, had a lot of potential, could/should of had more wins, and probably still will be known for his awesome quali laps, rather than a few decent results.

I hope Jarno is still around, like DTM or safety car driver etc, or he may go the 'quiet side' and head to his vineyard for good.

Trulli would be ideal for the safety car driver......

DOSBoot · Post by **DOSBoot** » 19 Feb 2012, 19:48

AndreaModa wrote:These things go in cycles though, that much is clear. Even in the case of Great Britain, which has produced the most world champions, there have been pretty lean spells - right through the mid to late 1970s with the exception of James Hunt, and then right the way through the 1980s until Mansell came along (although John Watson had been around in that period to be fair).

France has recently had a very poor period, ever since Alesi and Panis cleared off there's been pretty much no-one making a decent attempt at F1 under the French flag, but that could be about to change now.

In contrast, Germany is experiencing it's most successful period in F1 ever - before Schumacher there was barely any German drivers worth mentioning.

The same can be said of Spain, I don't even know of any Spanish drivers before Adrian Campos! And since Alonso has come in, things have steadily improved.

I'm still waiting for a good American to come back in F1. The last good one in my opinion was Eddie Cheever, since then we've had only two, one could have been good had he taken it more seriously, and the other failed miserably. I'm hopeing Alexander Rossi can break the duck.

Other nations that I can think of are Argentina, and the South African nations as well.

DonTirri · Post by **DonTirri** » 19 Feb 2012, 21:51

I for one wasn't surprised one bit.
After all, Italian presence in F1 has been on life support since Alboreto (or Patrese if you count a "guy in a winning car yet contractually not allowed to win" as a presence). Trulli and Fisichella are the only noteworthy Italians in 20 years, and neither of them had what it took to be a champion. Both had their shots at good cars (ironically both at the same team, Renault) yet neither of them was able to deliver.

Italy has a sort of an inverse development to Germany. Both were very strong pre-war in both drivers and teams, and Italy continued to be strong for a good while, but finally petered out of the stratosphere, while Germany had basically nothing as the series began and it took them over 40 years to get a championship winning driver.

Personally? Good Riddance, they aren't needed in F1.

DOSBoot · Post by **DOSBoot** » 19 Feb 2012, 22:14

DonTirri wrote:Personally? Good Riddance, they aren't needed in F1.

Looks like another troll quote for our friend DonTirri.

dr-baker · Post by **dr-baker** » 19 Feb 2012, 22:48

fjackdaw wrote:I heard Jarno is a nice guy too. Rubens has a moany reputation too, and is one of the nice ones.

Hey, maybe Vicky will be the next Italian in F1...

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/97565

So maybe my guess of Alice Powell being the next female to F1 may be wrong! (Unless HRT get Maria de Villota in the car before then).