The _TCC Series Thread

RealRacingRoots · Post by **RealRacingRoots** » 02 Apr 2012, 00:02

With the TCC meaning Touring Car Championships. With the big series' being the British Touring Car Championship and the World Touring Car Championship.

The BTCC had their first rounds (three races) at Brands Hatch with Rob Collard, Mat Neal and Jason Plato (in the Chinese MG) all winning races. The moment of the weekend has to be seven cars going off track at Druids after Rob Austin's Audi left a oil slick ala Spy Hunter.

The WTCC was in the proper Valencia circuit and Chevrolet won again. Moving on to a pic of the new Lada Granda.

And the European Superstars series was in Monza where Tonio Liuzzi won a race in his Mercedes.

If it's not V8 Supercars or Nascar but still is Touring Car racing, discuss here.

AndreaModa · Post by **AndreaModa** » 02 Apr 2012, 00:19

I was thinking of creating a thread like this earlier!

Really really happy with MG taking the race 3 win earlier today - I'm not a massive fan of Plato, though I don't despise him like I know a lot do, I just think it's really great for the guys at Longbridge who've been to hell and back ever since BMW did their dirty tricks with the Rover Group. Hopefully the MG team stick around for a good few years to come.

I also find it hilarious that the WTCC championship stills stutters along. I mean, look at the entry list - a bunch of Chevvies, BMWs and a few SEATs plus the two Arena Fords. Rubbish when you compare it to the diversity in the BTCC - Honda, MG, Ford, Vauxhall, VW, Toyota, BMW, Audi, Proton all represented in one way or another. Can't wait to see them in action in two weeks at Donington!

Post by **DemocalypseNow** » 02 Apr 2012, 00:21

I was thinking about going to Superstars at Donnington, but then I found out it was £25 for Sunday alone. No thanks.

AndreaModa · Post by **AndreaModa** » 02 Apr 2012, 00:56

kostas22 wrote:I was thinking about going to Superstars at Donnington, but then I found out it was £25 for Sunday alone. No thanks.

I'm guessing that they don't have much in the way of support races then? The BTCC is the same price for Sunday only, but they've got a total of 11 races over the course of the day, so I figure that's a pretty good deal to be honest.

RealRacingRoots · Post by **RealRacingRoots** » 02 Apr 2012, 00:59

AndreaModa wrote:
kostas22 wrote:I was thinking about going to Superstars at Donnington, but then I found out it was £25 for Sunday alone. No thanks.

I'm guessing that they don't have much in the way of support races then?

I think they also got GT Sprint series, but not sure what else..

Aerospeed · Post by **Aerospeed** » 02 Apr 2012, 01:10

kostas22 wrote:I was thinking about going to Superstars at Donnington, but then I found out it was £25 for Sunday alone. No thanks.

I would have gone at that price...

nome66 · Post by **nome66** » 02 Apr 2012, 01:14

now does the production-based Continental Tire Sports Car Challenge here in america count?
it's a Grand-Am feeder but it is pretty much turbo-charged compacts versus muscle cars (much like the BTCC used to be)
every car has a stock appearance, stock fenders, bumpers, etc. the engines are basically stock, but have turbos and intercoolers, carbs, horsepower tune-ups, etc.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continenta ... _Challenge
acronym helps a little. CTSCC

TomWazzleshaw · Post by **TomWazzleshaw** » 02 Apr 2012, 06:15

For those who missed the carnage

DanielPT · Post by **DanielPT** » 03 Apr 2012, 08:54

Can we use this thread to talk about DTM too? While the name is not TCC, it is also a Tourenwagen championship (I still think it is a name abuse to call it Masters and have Ralf Schumacher as one of its drivers

).

nome66 · Post by **nome66** » 03 Apr 2012, 15:39

Meisterschaft is german for Championship.

DanielPT · Post by **DanielPT** » 03 Apr 2012, 16:35

nome66 wrote:Meisterschaft is german for Championship.

According to the great Oracle that was indeed what the M in DTM meant before 2000. Now it is just Masters...

IdeFan · Post by **IdeFan** » 03 Apr 2012, 16:58

DanielPT wrote:
nome66 wrote:Meisterschaft is german for Championship.

According to the great Oracle that was indeed what the M in DTM meant before 2000. Now it is just Masters...

I believe the change from Meistershaft to Masters was because the ADAC (German motorsport sanctioning body) refused to give them championship status when the series relaunched, I think it had something to do with too many races outside of Germany to be considered a "German" championship. Fair enough I guess, didn't stop them from becoming a success.

DanielPT · Post by **DanielPT** » 03 Apr 2012, 17:35

Anyway, what I wanted to say was that BMW is slightly off the pace for now. Them and, well, Ralf Schumacher... :lol:

AdrianSutil · Post by **AdrianSutil** » 04 Apr 2012, 02:59

Have been thinking about a TCC thread for a while, glad its finally done! By the way, it was Matt Jackson's Ford that spilt the oil at Druids

dr-baker · Post by **dr-baker** » 04 Apr 2012, 16:49

Nobody's mentioned a Chinese car winning a BTCC race? Even if it were a former British manufacturer...

Salamander · Post by **Salamander** » 04 Apr 2012, 17:35

dr-baker wrote:Nobody's mentioned a Chinese car winning a BTCC race? Even if it were a former British manufacturer...

Check the first post again...

AndreaModa · Post by **AndreaModa** » 04 Apr 2012, 18:27

dr-baker wrote:Nobody's mentioned a Chinese car winning a BTCC race? Even if it were a former British manufacturer...

Not quite true baker, it's built in Longbridge, and MG are still a 'British' company that are just Chinese-owned. In much the same way as Jaguar Land Rover are considered 'British' despite being owned by Indian company Tata.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MG_Motor

Post by **DemocalypseNow** » 04 Apr 2012, 20:20

AndreaModa wrote:
dr-baker wrote:Nobody's mentioned a Chinese car winning a BTCC race? Even if it were a former British manufacturer...

Not quite true baker, it's built in Longbridge, and MG are still a 'British' company that are just Chinese-owned. In much the same way as Jaguar Land Rover are considered 'British' despite being owned by Indian company Tata.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MG_Motor

The car itself is still Chinese. OK, here goes...

MG Rover developed the RD/X60 platform in 2002, along with TWR (!!!). This of course went nowhere at the time as the company went under. SAIC Motor then bought the IPR for the platform, but not the brand, instead buying the MG brand at a later date and in the meantime creating the new 'Roewe' brand. The Roewe 550 has been produced in China for a couple of years now, and the 'new' MG6 that is built in Longbridge shares the same platform as the Roewe 550. Which makes things rather confusing, because the car was designed by a different company in Britian, then purchased by a Chinese manufacturer and actually manufacturered there, then brought back to the UK.

So it's a British-Chinese hybrid. I don't think you can call it one way or the other really.

Post by **mario** » 04 Apr 2012, 20:29

DanielPT wrote:Anyway, what I wanted to say was that BMW is slightly off the pace for now. Them and, well, Ralf Schumacher...

If BMW remain off the leading pace for the short term, how long will it be until they decide to pull out and focus on something else again? They are already flirting with the idea of a works MotoGP program, given that the CRT engine program has already given them a small foothold in the sport, and we have seen how quickly BMW can change its opinion in recent years...

Salamander · Post by **Salamander** » 04 Apr 2012, 21:19

mario wrote:
DanielPT wrote:Anyway, what I wanted to say was that BMW is slightly off the pace for now. Them and, well, Ralf Schumacher...

If BMW remain off the leading pace for the short term, how long will it be until they decide to pull out and focus on something else again? They are already flirting with the idea of a works MotoGP program, given that the CRT engine program has already given them a small foothold in the sport, and we have seen how quickly BMW can change its opinion in recent years...

Christ, it's like they're trying to out-Bahar Bahar.

IdeFan · Post by **IdeFan** » 04 Apr 2012, 22:12

Judging by the Mini-WRC fiasco it seems that BMW expect instant championship success if they're to stick around.

Didn't win a race in the first year? Sorry we're gone.

Makes their partnership with Williams look positively committed.

Post by **mario** » 05 Apr 2012, 16:52

BlindCaveSalamander wrote:
mario wrote:
DanielPT wrote:Anyway, what I wanted to say was that BMW is slightly off the pace for now. Them and, well, Ralf Schumacher...

If BMW remain off the leading pace for the short term, how long will it be until they decide to pull out and focus on something else again? They are already flirting with the idea of a works MotoGP program, given that the CRT engine program has already given them a small foothold in the sport, and we have seen how quickly BMW can change its opinion in recent years...

Christ, it's like they're trying to out-Bahar Bahar.

Unlike Bahar's plans, BMW have tended to put their own teams together rather than merely branding them - but, yes, BMW are seemingly spreading out quite rapidly. You have to wonder, though, if they'll have the same sort of success (or lack of, to be more precise) that Bahar's plans are currently reaping...

DanielPT wrote:Can we use this thread to talk about DTM too? While the name is not TCC, it is also a Tourenwagen championship (I still think it is a name abuse to call it Masters and have Ralf Schumacher as one of its drivers ).

Speaking of DTM, there has been an interesting development - as some might have heard, there had been a proposal from the German and Japanese motorsport authorities for a merger between the GT500 series and DTM. The idea was that the two series would use the same technical regulations, as well as utilising the same engine and chassis technology, in an effort to cut costs and increase the profile of the GT500 series in Europe and DTM in Asia.

Unfortunately, it looks like the deal has fallen apart - the first problem is that, although the GTA agreed to utilise the same chassis as the DTM cars, they proposed that the chassis should be manufactured in Japan. The response from the ITR was pretty blunt - they angrily rejected the Japanese proposal, insisting that the chassis would have to be made in Germany, before walking out of the meeting.
The other problem is that the GTA and ITR have very different approaches to future engine developments - whilst the ITR uses bespoke 4.0L V8's, the GT500 cars mostly use 4.3L V8 engines derived from the Formula Nippon series. However, the GTA is planning to switch to 2.0L turbocharged engines in 2014, supplemented by a hybrid power system, in tandem with the Formula Nippon series - which is another move that the ITR found unpalatable. http://www.racecar-engineering.com/news ... collapses/

Barbazza · Post by **Barbazza** » 08 Apr 2012, 19:50

Finally watched (most of) the last BTCC race from last weekend earlier. I always record the whole thing and watch it a few races at a time (including support races) in the week.

I was extremely disappointed in ITV's coverage, I have to say. The new commentator is AWFUL, they seem to have the same director who worked on that famous Imola F1 race given that twice they went to a break when the safety car was out only to find the race underway when they returned, there were some awful captions (somebody out of the race being '+0' laps?) and managed to miss a fair bit with the cameras - how no-one managed to capture Nick Foster's BMW turning upside down is beyond me!

Add to that the usual utter sick-making hero worship of Plato as per usual (yes, we know the car had few laps before the meeting ITV, you don't have to tell us every 5 minutes - we are talking about the most successful BTCC team putting it together so not THAT miraculous really...) and the fact that the coverage cut off on my Sky box before the end of the last race due to the restart - assuming I'm right in thinking that the stations have to send out the digital signal to tell digital boxes to carrying on recording if something is overrunning - and it wasn't great really.

Those who say they should have F1 back - no thanks.

AndreaModa · Post by **AndreaModa** » 08 Apr 2012, 20:24

The new commentator on the BTCC races is Toby Moody who's previous experience has been mostly MotoGP on Eurosport which he's continuing with for the foreseeable future. I didn't think he was too bad, particularly seeing as it was his first event commentating on tin tops.

I also struggle to understand why people hate Plato so much. I know he's a miserable bastard sometimes but he's not that bad. I have a mate who hates him because he tends to be a bit rough with his competitors on track, but I figure if you don't like seeing a bit of argy-bargy then you shouldn't be watching touring cars. Ultimately you can't knock his talent at the wheel, and I think without him the series would be poorer for it.

Shadaza · Post by **Shadaza** » 08 Apr 2012, 20:42

AndreaModa wrote:The new commentator on the BTCC races is Toby Moody who's previous experience has been mostly MotoGP on Eurosport which he's continuing with for the foreseeable future. I didn't think he was too bad, particularly seeing as it was his first event commentating on tin tops.

I also struggle to understand why people hate Plato so much. I know he's a miserable bastard sometimes but he's not that bad. I have a mate who hates him because he tends to be a bit rough with his competitors on track, but I figure if you don't like seeing a bit of argy-bargy then you shouldn't be watching touring cars. Ultimately you can't knock his talent at the wheel, and I think without him the series would be poorer for it.

Plato is very Jekyll and Hyde. He is extremely talented at throwing a car around the track and playing his hand to the fullest, but he is also an arrogant cry baby who is unable to admit when he makes mistakes, the brands hatch weekend highlighted all Plato's attributes in one, his move on Newsham was idiotic but his charge to race 3 victory was excellent, he was visibly taking the corners more aggressively then anyone else. I am routing for Matt Neal because I believe he has a more sensible head on him, the Duel between Neal and Plato in race 2 is an example of master wheel to wheel combat.

Faustus · Post by **Faustus** » 08 Apr 2012, 21:06

Shadaza wrote:
AndreaModa wrote:The new commentator on the BTCC races is Toby Moody who's previous experience has been mostly MotoGP on Eurosport which he's continuing with for the foreseeable future. I didn't think he was too bad, particularly seeing as it was his first event commentating on tin tops.

I also struggle to understand why people hate Plato so much. I know he's a miserable bastard sometimes but he's not that bad. I have a mate who hates him because he tends to be a bit rough with his competitors on track, but I figure if you don't like seeing a bit of argy-bargy then you shouldn't be watching touring cars. Ultimately you can't knock his talent at the wheel, and I think without him the series would be poorer for it.

Plato is very Jekyll and Hyde. He is extremely talented at throwing a car around the track and playing his hand to the fullest, but he is also an arrogant cry baby who is unable to admit when he makes mistakes, the brands hatch weekend highlighted all Plato's attributes in one, his move on Newsham was idiotic but his charge to race 3 victory was excellent, he was visibly taking the corners more aggressively then anyone else. I am routing for Matt Neal because I believe he has a more sensible head on him, the Duel between Neal and Plato in race 2 is an example of master wheel to wheel combat.

Gonzo is a self-deluded arsehole. That's both from (unfortunate) personal experience and from friends at Ray Mallock Limited who also had the misfortune of working with him.

Salamander · Post by **Salamander** » 08 Apr 2012, 21:18

Shadaza wrote:
AndreaModa wrote:The new commentator on the BTCC races is Toby Moody who's previous experience has been mostly MotoGP on Eurosport which he's continuing with for the foreseeable future. I didn't think he was too bad, particularly seeing as it was his first event commentating on tin tops.

I also struggle to understand why people hate Plato so much. I know he's a miserable bastard sometimes but he's not that bad. I have a mate who hates him because he tends to be a bit rough with his competitors on track, but I figure if you don't like seeing a bit of argy-bargy then you shouldn't be watching touring cars. Ultimately you can't knock his talent at the wheel, and I think without him the series would be poorer for it.

Plato is very Jekyll and Hyde. He is extremely talented at throwing a car around the track and playing his hand to the fullest, but he is also an arrogant cry baby who is unable to admit when he makes mistakes, the brands hatch weekend highlighted all Plato's attributes in one, his move on Newsham was idiotic but his charge to race 3 victory was excellent, he was visibly taking the corners more aggressively then anyone else. I am routing for Matt Neal because I believe he has a more sensible head on him, the Duel between Neal and Plato in race 2 is an example of master wheel to wheel combat.

I can't stand Matt Neal either, sure, Plato's an ass who can find a way to complain when he's gifted a race win, but comes across (to me, at least), as a bit self-entitled, and an ass as well. Basically Plato lite. Which is why I root for Mat Jackson, as he's the only driver I feel talented enough to beat either driver over a full season, if he can get a car that's good enough. I'd like to root for Gordon Shedden, but he just doesn't seem to have that edge that Plato, Neal, and Jackson do - I can't see him ever winning a title unless he's practically gifted it by all his rivals falling off the road.

AdrianSutil · Post by **AdrianSutil** » 08 Apr 2012, 22:41

The competition seems a lot closer this year, even after the one weekend. I think that Matt Jackson has a good chance at the title as long as the cr stays reliable and he gets a little bit of luck here and there. He's certainly going to be the main challenger to Plato and Neal.

Shadaza · Post by **Shadaza** » 08 Apr 2012, 23:57

AdrianSutil wrote:The competition seems a lot closer this year, even after the one weekend. I think that Matt Jackson has a good chance at the title as long as the cr stays reliable and he gets a little bit of luck here and there. He's certainly going to be the main challenger to Plato and Neal.

If Dave Newsham can repeat his Brands Hatch pace then he is going to be a contender. I wouldn't rule out Rob Collard either, that BMW is lightning off the start. Rob Austin's Audi is very rapid, but I'm sure Mr Austin himself is quick enough to put the car where it should be. Either way, if Brands Hatch is anything to go by, this years BTCC is going to be epic to watch.

AdrianSutil · Post by **AdrianSutil** » 09 Apr 2012, 16:29

Shadaza wrote:
AdrianSutil wrote:The competition seems a lot closer this year, even after the one weekend. I think that Matt Jackson has a good chance at the title as long as the cr stays reliable and he gets a little bit of luck here and there. He's certainly going to be the main challenger to Plato and Neal.

If Dave Newsham can repeat his Brands Hatch pace then he is going to be a contender. I wouldn't rule out Rob Collard either, that BMW is lightning off the start. Rob Austin's Audi is very rapid, but I'm sure Mr Austin himself is quick enough to put the car where it should be. Either way, if Brands Hatch is anything to go by, this years BTCC is going to be epic to watch.

I like Dave Newsham, he impressed me last year with some gutsy drives. The team are using car's built by BTCC legends 888, so the car will be a very solid package throughout the year. It looked pretty quick at Brands, but the attrition after Jackson's oil spill helped the car into 3rd. Otherwise he mightve been around 6/7th.

Barbazza · Post by **Barbazza** » 09 Apr 2012, 17:17

AndreaModa wrote:I also struggle to understand why people hate Plato so much. I know he's a miserable bastard sometimes but he's not that bad. I have a mate who hates him because he tends to be a bit rough with his competitors on track, but I figure if you don't like seeing a bit of argy-bargy then you shouldn't be watching touring cars. Ultimately you can't knock his talent at the wheel, and I think without him the series would be poorer for it.

I don't have a problem with contact, but there's a 'right' way of doing it and a 'wrong' way of doing it IMO. His move on Newsham in Race 1 was absolutely ridiculous and he does moves like that all the time. He also is very good at dishing it out but very bad at taking it back and is full of himself. Others like Matt Neal, Gordon Shedden and Andy Jordan have more of a sense of humour than he does.

Barbazza · Post by **Barbazza** » 09 Apr 2012, 17:22

Faustus wrote:Gonzo is a self-deluded arsehole. That's both from (unfortunate) personal experience and from friends at Ray Mallock Limited who also had the misfortune of working with him.

Who's Gonzo - Matt Neal? If so, I agree that he doesn't always come across well but he's a fantastic racer who doesn't usually go around charging into people the way Plato does.

I agree with others who've said that Mat Jackson is a fantastic driver - the one time I've seen BTCC live at Silverstone a few years back he was the most exciting driver to watch other than Giovanardi (boy, was he ace!) and I seem to remember that he won a race that day. I like Collard and Newsham too.

The worst driver other than Plato is Andy Neate who to me, has not got a ****ing clue what he's doing. Appropriate that those 2 have ended up in the same team then...

Faustus · Post by **Faustus** » 09 Apr 2012, 17:54

Barbazza wrote:
Faustus wrote:Gonzo is a self-deluded arsehole. That's both from (unfortunate) personal experience and from friends at Ray Mallock Limited who also had the misfortune of working with him.

Who's Gonzo - Matt Neal? If so, I agree that he doesn't always come across well but he's a fantastic racer who doesn't usually go around charging into people the way Plato does.

I agree with others who've said that Mat Jackson is a fantastic driver - the one time I've seen BTCC live at Silverstone a few years back he was the most exciting driver to watch other than Giovanardi (boy, was he ace!) and I seem to remember that he won a race that day. I like Collard and Newsham too.

The worst driver other than Plato is Andy Neate who to me, has not got a ****ing clue what he's doing. Appropriate that those 2 have ended up in the same team then...

Jason Plato is 'affectionately' known as Gonzo.

dr-baker · Post by **dr-baker** » 09 Apr 2012, 22:03

I sadly missed the BTCC race last weekend - would have loved to have seen it either in person or on TV.

And I miss Fabrizio Giovanardi and the other Europeans from the past 10/20 years that are now in the WTCC - Yvan Muller, Tarquini, Rob Huff, etc.

Post by **DemocalypseNow** » 09 Apr 2012, 23:44

The championship needs Fabrizio back. He was a lightning quick touring car driver as well as a gent. He was at a publicity event in Edinburgh before a BTCC round a few years ago, noticed my Alfa AutoDelta Squadra Corse shirt and we had a brief chat. Less Platos and more Gios please

AndreaModa · Post by **AndreaModa** » 10 Apr 2012, 00:16

dr-baker wrote:I sadly missed the BTCC race last weekend - would have loved to have seen it either in person or on TV.

And I miss Fabrizio Giovanardi and the other Europeans from the past 10/20 years that are now in the WTCC - Yvan Muller, Tarquini, Rob Huff, etc.

ITV should have the whole thing on ITVPlayer!

Salamander · Post by **Salamander** » 10 Apr 2012, 00:39

AndreaModa wrote:
dr-baker wrote:I sadly missed the BTCC race last weekend - would have loved to have seen it either in person or on TV.

And I miss Fabrizio Giovanardi and the other Europeans from the past 10/20 years that are now in the WTCC - Yvan Muller, Tarquini, Rob Huff, etc.

ITV should have the whole thing on ITVPlayer!

Yeah, that is one good thing about the ITV coverage - despite the coverage itself being fairly sub-standard, they have embraced the internet as a means of broadcast far more openly than pretty much anything else that's televised. I certainly wish more people in the TV/Movie business took note of this.

dr-baker · Post by **dr-baker** » 10 Apr 2012, 10:22

BlindCaveSalamander wrote:
AndreaModa wrote:
dr-baker wrote:I sadly missed the BTCC race last weekend - would have loved to have seen it either in person or on TV.

And I miss Fabrizio Giovanardi and the other Europeans from the past 10/20 years that are now in the WTCC - Yvan Muller, Tarquini, Rob Huff, etc.

ITV should have the whole thing on ITVPlayer!

Yeah, that is one good thing about the ITV coverage - despite the coverage itself being fairly sub-standard, they have embraced the internet as a means of broadcast far more openly than pretty much anything else that's televised. I certainly wish more people in the TV/Movie business took note of this.

Will look it up later - they keep it up for more than a week then?

Salamander · Post by **Salamander** » 10 Apr 2012, 14:13

dr-baker wrote:
BlindCaveSalamander wrote:Yeah, that is one good thing about the ITV coverage - despite the coverage itself being fairly sub-standard, they have embraced the internet as a means of broadcast far more openly than pretty much anything else that's televised. I certainly wish more people in the TV/Movie business took note of this.

Will look it up later - they keep it up for more than a week then?

Yes, albeit just highlights, it would seem.

Waris · Post by **Waris** » 14 Apr 2012, 14:29

So if DTM and Super GT had indeed merged, presumably that would've blurred the line between sportscars and touring cars a bit. What would that new series have been called, a touring car or a GT championship?
And I remember reading somewhere that there were also plans for DTM to work together with NASCAR. I don't know what exactly they had in mind, but that would also blur the line between touring cars and stock cars (not that that has ever been very clear to me in the first place). :O