2012 Bahrain Grand Prix Discussion Thread

the Masked Lapwing · Post by **the Masked Lapwing** » 21 Apr 2012, 11:52

QuickYoda41 wrote:
the Masked Lapwing wrote:One STR out in Q1, the other makes Q3. Makes my theory seem better now

Until Ricciardo's race.

But that's my theory, that Vergne will do better because Daniel is the new Jarno.

RonDenisDeletraz · Post by **RonDenisDeletraz** » 21 Apr 2012, 11:55

the Masked Lapwing wrote:
QuickYoda41 wrote:
the Masked Lapwing wrote:One STR out in Q1, the other makes Q3. Makes my theory seem better now

Until Ricciardo's race.

But that's my theory, that Vergne will do better because Daniel is the new Jarno.

I doubt that will happen.

AdrianSutil · Post by **AdrianSutil** » 21 Apr 2012, 11:57

Looks like Kovalainen's prediction of a backmarker fighting the midfield seems spot on. P16!!

Klon · Post by **Klon** » 21 Apr 2012, 12:02

The Finger is back! :lol:

Minardi Man · Post by **Minardi Man** » 21 Apr 2012, 12:02

Urgh, nobody want's to see that

QuickYoda41 · Post by **QuickYoda41** » 21 Apr 2012, 12:03

the Masked Lapwing wrote:
QuickYoda41 wrote:
the Masked Lapwing wrote:One STR out in Q1, the other makes Q3. Makes my theory seem better now

Until Ricciardo's race.

But that's my theory, that Vergne will do better because Daniel is the new Jarno.

I understand, I want/predict Daniel to screw yout theory with a great result tomorrow.

QuickYoda41 · Post by **QuickYoda41** » 21 Apr 2012, 12:03

And once the Red Bull is back at top, the Finger nails it, not Webber.

Klon · Post by **Klon** » 21 Apr 2012, 12:03

Minardi Man wrote:Urgh, nobody want's to see that

It's better than seeing Button succeed.

Minardi Man · Post by **Minardi Man** » 21 Apr 2012, 12:07

Klon wrote:
Minardi Man wrote:Urgh, nobody want's to see that

It's better than seeing Button succeed.

What's wrong with Button?
He doesn't emanate arrogance like Vettel does, that is my problem with Vettel, he acts like such a spoiled brat.

the Masked Lapwing · Post by **the Masked Lapwing** » 21 Apr 2012, 12:08

FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU-

Ah well, Ricciardo's 6th. Please do a decent job! Prove me wrong!

dr-baker · Post by **dr-baker** » 21 Apr 2012, 12:09

Klon wrote:
Minardi Man wrote:Urgh, nobody want's to see that

It's better than seeing Button succeed.

Not true. I would MUCH rather see Button succeed than The Finger.

But I missed much of Q3 due to yet another wretched fire alarm in uni halls. Would be a Reject of the Weekend nomination for me if the GP were not in Bahrain...

Paul Hayes · Post by **Paul Hayes** » 21 Apr 2012, 12:10

I think we might have to all give up on making any predictions about F1 this year, and just accept that no bugger has a clue what's going to happen.

Klon · Post by **Klon** » 21 Apr 2012, 12:11

Minardi Man wrote:What's wrong with Button?

Oh boy, I can rave on that for hours but I will give you the abridged version: Button's success is completely disproportional to his level of talent - and by that I don't mean he has not enough success. Every time I see Button winning anything, that minuscule part of me that believes in this word being a meritocracy dies a small death.

DanielPT · Post by **DanielPT** » 21 Apr 2012, 12:11

QuickYoda41 wrote:
the Masked Lapwing wrote:But that's my theory, that Vergne will do better because Daniel is the new Jarno.

I understand, I want/predict Daniel to screw yout theory with a great result tomorrow.

I too want Ricciardo to do a fine, non going backwards, race tomorrow. It was a fantastic effort from him and effectively making Vergne the deadbeat team-mate (Schumi was screwed by Mercedes optimism).

AdrianSutil · Post by **AdrianSutil** » 21 Apr 2012, 12:13

Ricciardo 6th?! Did he even do a lap?

DanielPT · Post by **DanielPT** » 21 Apr 2012, 12:16

Klon wrote:
Minardi Man wrote:What's wrong with Button?

Oh boy, I can rave on that for hours but I will give you the abridged version: Button's success is completely disproportional to his level of talent - and by that I don't mean he has not enough success. Every time I see Button winning anything, that minuscule part of me that believes in something resembling justice dies a small death.

You still cannot let go the fact that Button deservedly thrashed Barrichello in 2009, right? :lol:

Ferrim · Post by **Ferrim** » 21 Apr 2012, 12:19

Klon wrote:
Minardi Man wrote:What's wrong with Button?

Oh boy, I can rave on that for hours but I will give you the abridged version: Button's success is completely disproportional to his level of talent - and by that I don't mean he has not enough success. Every time I see Button winning anything, that minuscule part of me that believes in this word being a meritocracy dies a small death.

But man, it's exactly the other way around. That Button has any success is a testimony to his efforts, that is, of meritocracy, because he's fought hard for every of his wins. I'm convinced he's not the most talented driver in the grid, yet he's able to battle with everyone and even defeat them: that's meritocracy for you.

Klon · Post by **Klon** » 21 Apr 2012, 12:19

DanielPT wrote:You still cannot let go the fact that Button deservedly thrashed Barrichello in 2009, right?

Never, because it wasn't deservedly. Barrichello was the better driver that year.

Post by **mario** » 21 Apr 2012, 12:32

the Masked Lapwing wrote:
QuickYoda41 wrote:
the Masked Lapwing wrote:One STR out in Q1, the other makes Q3. Makes my theory seem better now

Until Ricciardo's race.

But that's my theory, that Vergne will do better because Daniel is the new Jarno.

That could depend on how heavily Vergne is penalised though - according to the BBC, Vergne was supposed to enter the weigh bridge after the end of Q1, but drove straight past an FIA official pointing him towards the weight bridge, and also past a red stop light, and straight into his garage instead.
The BBC are reporting that Vergne's car was then put onto a trolley by the team and sent to the weigh bridge as quickly as possible - however, part of the reason why the cars are supposed to report directly to the weigh bridge rather than the garage is an anti-cheating measure (to prevent the teams modifying the car in any way between it leaving the pits and going into parc ferme), which does mean that Vergne's mistake has potentially quite serious ramifications.

Minardi Man · Post by **Minardi Man** » 21 Apr 2012, 12:36

Ferrim wrote:
Klon wrote:
Minardi Man wrote:What's wrong with Button?

Oh boy, I can rave on that for hours but I will give you the abridged version: Button's success is completely disproportional to his level of talent - and by that I don't mean he has not enough success. Every time I see Button winning anything, that minuscule part of me that believes in this word being a meritocracy dies a small death.

But man, it's exactly the other way around. That Button has any success is a testimony to his efforts, that is, of meritocracy, because he's fought hard for every of his wins. I'm convinced he's not the most talented driver in the grid, yet he's able to battle with everyone and even defeat them: that's meritocracy for you.

Exactly my view, I have a lot more respect for the top drivers like Button and Webber who have had to fight it out in terrible cars.
Vettel and Hamilton on the other hand seem to have had all the luck (Vetell last year in particular was unbelieveably lucky, though i'm not going to be blind and state that was the only reason for his dominance).

Klon · Post by **Klon** » 21 Apr 2012, 12:43

Minardi Man wrote:Vettel and Hamilton on the other hand seem to have had all the luck (Vetell last year in particular was unbelieveably lucky, though i'm not going to be blind and state that was the only reason for his dominance).

You can account virtually every win of Jenson Button to sheer luck or strategic screw-ups by the opposition (with exceptions like Monaco 2009 or Hungary 2011), so so much for that one. :roll:

Peter · Post by **Peter** » 21 Apr 2012, 12:53

Pamphlet · Post by **Pamphlet** » 21 Apr 2012, 12:57

Minardi Man wrote:Exactly my view, I have a lot more respect for the top drivers like Button and Webber who have had to fight it out in terrible cars.
Vettel and Hamilton on the other hand seem to have had all the luck (Vetell last year in particular was unbelieveably lucky, though i'm not going to be blind and state that was the only reason for his dominance).

Balanced out by 2010. Which Vettel also won.

Speaking of which, I must be the only person in here that supports Vettel and Button equally. Seb's the more talented guy, but Jenson's the better person by a country mile (but then only Rubens and train conductor Jarno could challenge him in that regard). Hard to make any compromises.

Really want to see Vettel win tomorrow, if only to spite the brits, though I'd be happy if Button won as well.

James1978 · Post by **James1978** » 21 Apr 2012, 12:59

Bloody finger. It was inevitable at some point though.

Aerospeed · Post by **Aerospeed** » 21 Apr 2012, 13:21

Calm down here, it's only his first pole position of the year...

I'd get concerned if he won the race though!

What is Schumacher doing anyways??

We've got de la Rosa starting 21st.

HRT have definitely recovered.

Pamphlet · Post by **Pamphlet** » 21 Apr 2012, 13:26

JeremyMcClean wrote:Calm down here, it's only his first pole position of the year...

I'd get concerned if he won the race though!

What is Schumacher doing anyways??

We've got de la Rosa starting 21st. HRT have definitely recovered.

Schuey had a DRS problem which prevented him from doing another run in Q1. Would explain why he never came out to do a lap on the softs, at least.

tristan1117 · Post by **tristan1117** » 21 Apr 2012, 13:30

Yes! De la Rosa beat Glock! Also, it seems that Rosberg has gone back to "mess up my last Q3 lap, even though my car is fast" mode for the weekend but we'll see what happens in the race. Tyre degradation is going to be a killer so teams like Mercedes might be in trouble. It's funny that Button is now seen as a kind of anti-Hamilton, especially considering that when Button came into the sport, he was young, everyone thought he would be world champion and the British press adored him for a while. See what a few stints at Honda can do for you.

Peter · Post by **Peter** » 21 Apr 2012, 13:45

Minardi Man wrote:
Ferrim wrote:
Klon wrote:Oh boy, I can rave on that for hours but I will give you the abridged version: Button's success is completely disproportional to his level of talent - and by that I don't mean he has not enough success. Every time I see Button winning anything, that minuscule part of me that believes in this word being a meritocracy dies a small death.

But man, it's exactly the other way around. That Button has any success is a testimony to his efforts, that is, of meritocracy, because he's fought hard for every of his wins. I'm convinced he's not the most talented driver in the grid, yet he's able to battle with everyone and even defeat them: that's meritocracy for you.

Exactly my view, I have a lot more respect for the top drivers like Button and Webber who have had to fight it out in terrible cars.
Vettel and Hamilton on the other hand seem to have had all the luck (Vetell last year in particular was unbelieveably lucky, though i'm not going to be blind and state that was the only reason for his dominance).

Hamilton has had his fair share of bad cars and bad luck. He started 2009 with an awful car, he did complain a bit, but he eventually got down to business, and worked with the team to turn it around from the 3rd worst car on the grid, to the 3rd best by year's end. I can respect Lewis for his 2009 performances.

Pedestrian · Post by **Pedestrian** » 21 Apr 2012, 14:27

The Finger is back! NOOOOO!
On a more serious note, the top 4 look awfully simillar to an average 2011 grid. Let's hope we won't see a return to that type of races too.

fjackdaw · Post by **fjackdaw** » 21 Apr 2012, 14:57

I don't get this attitude of "only the very best can ever win" - for a start, it would just be really tedious, as the Schumi dominance years showed, there are only three or four people in the entire field who could ever win anything. And I just don't understand what's so hateful about someone with pluck, determination and a hard-working attitude coming through and beating the odds.

Also, the deal with Hamilton, Vettel, Schumacher, etc. is a bit of an illusion anyway. Most of them started out in the best cars, or very quickly rose up the ranks to drive in the best car, so we never really got to see them struggle round in a dog of a car during the "first impressions count" period of their career. When they are in a poor car, they struggle just as much as the likes of Button. Of the current field, I think only Alonso is the one who really shines in inferior machinery. Vettel and Hamilton are so used to getting their own way, they're more often than not all over the place when things go against them.

Row Man Gross-Gene · Post by **Row Man Gross-Gene** » 21 Apr 2012, 15:18

Wizzie wrote:
IceG wrote:This could be the end for Bernie, he said trying to find a silver lining in this mess.

The problem is there's nobody on the face of the Earth that's capable of running the commercial side of the sport, no matter how questionable his antics are. Unless Dr Baker hurries the hell up and marries one of the Ecclestone daughters.

Yes, that's our only hope. Problem is, do we want to saddle a nice guy like Dr. Baker with an Ecclestone daughter? It's a dirty job living in the old Spelling mansion and playing Los Angeles Country Club every day, but I guess somebody's got to do it.

dr-baker · Post by **dr-baker** » 21 Apr 2012, 17:09

Row Man Gross-Gene wrote:
Wizzie wrote:
IceG wrote:This could be the end for Bernie, he said trying to find a silver lining in this mess.

The problem is there's nobody on the face of the Earth that's capable of running the commercial side of the sport, no matter how questionable his antics are. Unless Dr Baker hurries the hell up and marries one of the Ecclestone daughters.

Yes, that's our only hope. Problem is, do we want to saddle a nice guy like Dr. Baker with an Ecclestone daughter? It's a dirty job living in the old Spelling mansion and playing Los Angeles Country Club every day, but I guess somebody's got to do it.

I'm not sure I wish to be connected to Bernie if he takes an attitude like this:

Bernard Charles Ecclestone, via Autosport.com wrote:Bernie Ecclestone, whose FOM company is responsible for producing the live coverage, scotched the suggestions that Force India was deliberately ignored.

He insisted that fans are interested only in frontrunners, hence the lack of Force India screen time.

"Nobody cares if someone is ninth or 11th," Ecclestone told Reuters. "Only the people that are watching a particular team.

"I spoke to our people and they were more or less concentrating on who was going to be on pole, rather than somebody going to be 10th."

Go home, Mr Ecclestone. Please. If Williams put Susie Wolff into the car, I think people would be very interested in whereever on the grid she qualified, eh Bernie? Or even if Maria de Villota got her Virgin drive? Or is this the whole reason why I was to marry one of his daughters? To knock some sense into him?

Actually, to take his point to the extreme, maybe if nobody cares about 9th or 11th places, maybe there should only be eight cars full stop. Ferrari, Red Bull, McLaren and Mercedes. And then reintroduce the 1990s points system - if there are only 8 cars, we don't need points to go all the way down to 10th any more. And who cares if Formula Renault UK got canned for 2012 for only having 6 entries confirmed for this season? F1 is bigger than that. It doesn't need to put on a show. It'll get by fine because nobody cares about anything at all but what happens on the track at the front. Absolutely nothing else. At all. :evil:

Collieafc · Post by **Collieafc** » 21 Apr 2012, 17:10

Barichello vs Button:

Barichello only won races in cars that won the world championship

Button won races in cars that had no chance at winning the world championship.

Besides, if anyone wants evidence he didnt luck it, look at 2011. He buried Hamilton in his own backyard. Everybody thought it would be the other way round.

Shadaza · Post by **Shadaza** » 21 Apr 2012, 17:13

The Force India team not shown debate seems to be a deliberate attempt at trying to cause a storm in a tea cup.

I can't recall seeing Force Inda. But then I also Can't recall seeing Sauber or Ricciardo. Frankly I can't really recall seeing Force India in any of the qualifying sessions, it has been a problem for a while now that the midfield teams do not get the coverage in Q2.

dr-baker · Post by **dr-baker** » 21 Apr 2012, 17:16

Collieafc wrote:Barichello vs Button:

Barichello only won races in cars that won the world championship

Button won races in cars that had no chance at winning the world championship.

Besides, if anyone wants evidence he didnt luck it, look at 2011. He buried Hamilton in his own backyard. Everybody thought it would be the other way round.

I like Rubens. I like many drivers who have driven for Williams over the years. BUT this explains well why I believe Button is talented. Nobody truly lucks into a championship. You have to be in the right place at the right time, and make the most of it while the opportunity presents itself. Button definitely did that in the first half of 2009, and consolidated that lead in the second half. Rubens had his chance, but did not take as much advantage as Jenson. Maybe he had too many seasons being subservient to Schumi?

shinji · Post by **shinji** » 21 Apr 2012, 17:29

It's like Ecclestone is intentionally ripping the piss out of all F1 fans everywhere this weekend. It's just one ridiculous quote after another.

GwilymJJames · Post by **GwilymJJames** » 21 Apr 2012, 17:37

Bernie Ecclestone wrote:Nobody cares if someone is ninth or 11th,

Fernando Alonso and Kimi Raikkonen: Officially no fans at all.

Klon · Post by **Klon** » 21 Apr 2012, 17:57

Collieafc wrote:Button won races in cars that had no chance at winning the world championship.

He did that ONCE and that was in a race when virtually everyone in front of him turned their brains off. Don't even go ahead and dare trying to claim that the 2011 McLaren had not even a theoretical chance at winning a world championship. Barrichello achieved more in weaker cars so so much for that.

Bernie Ecclestone wrote:He insisted that fans are interested only in frontrunners, hence the lack of Force India screen time.

"Nobody cares if someone is ninth or 11th," Ecclestone told Reuters. "Only the people that are watching a particular team.

There is no middle finger big enough!

CoopsII · Post by **CoopsII** » 21 Apr 2012, 18:00

GwilymJJames wrote:
Bernie Ecclestone wrote:Nobody cares if someone is ninth or 11th,

Fernando Alonso and Kimi Raikkonen: Officially no fans at all.

Wheres my 'Like' option?

Salamander · Post by **Salamander** » 21 Apr 2012, 18:16

... meanwhile, has anyone else noticed that Charles Pic qualified 21st?