2012 Spanish Grand Prix Discussion Thread

AndreaModa · Post by **AndreaModa** » 12 May 2012, 13:31

It'll be interesting to see what the stewards say about Hamilton, apparently according to Whitmarsh the problem is mechanical and he was told to stop the car out on circuit. Great for the Spanish fans wanting to hurl abuse at him though, they were climbing up the fence to get nearer to him!

I got really excited in Q1 for a bit as well when I thought Pic was just a tenth or two off Kovalainen's time, then I realised he did a 1:26 to Heikki's 1:25! Odd that he's found half a second over Glock though. That's twice in a row he's been out-qualified.

And Hamilton's pole time is simply superb, lets not take anything away from that, he's over half a second faster than Maldonado in second. Really stellar lap that one.

Ferrim · Post by **Ferrim** » 12 May 2012, 13:38

WaffleCat wrote:
Ferrim wrote:
On March 5, 2012, Ferrim wrote:
Set for a very good season. You read it here first.

viewtopic.php?p=139329#p139329

http://www.f1rejects.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=4811&start=200#p141476

Pls don't jinx it again Ferrim....

I'll try not to!

We have Monaco in 15 days time... although I'm not convinced this year's Williams will be as strong there. The car clearly generates tons of downforce, which means it isn't as strong in other fronts (else it would be winning races). Monaco doesn't have high speed corners, so you don't need the extra downforce, and therefore these weaker areas may be more noticeable there.

Anyway, let's enjoy what we have now! The reason I was so confident on the Reverend's chances for 2012 is that last year he looked so similar to Petrov in 2010: ragged and making many mistakes, but fundamentally not a bad driver. And while Petrov was destroyed by Kubica in most races, Pastor showed signs of speed in a few races and put that crapbox called the FW33 three times in Q3 (which Barrichello never managed). Now, Petrov showed much improved form in 2011 and scored more points than in 2010 with an overall weaker car. With a season worth of experience and driving a car that was looking better than last year's in pre-season testing, it seemed likely that he could be fighting for the minor points here and there.

Shadaza · Post by **Shadaza** » 12 May 2012, 13:46

GP2 Pole, James Calado 1.30.655
Narain Karthikeyan 1.31.122

Karthikeyan would in fact have been P6 on the grid for the GP2 race...

Waris · Post by **Waris** » 12 May 2012, 13:49

Maldonado is the new Montoya.
Senna is the new Barrichello.
Massa is the new Badoer.

Post by **Ataxia** » 12 May 2012, 13:50

Wow-ee. What a session.

I'm not gonna begin by yelling Maldonado for the win etc, because you never know what's around the corner. Fingers crossed, though. He does deserve a podium at the least.

Impressed with Alonso as well, if he can switch the tyres on then he'd be a contender to put the home fans into a state of frenzy. And watch Vettel, Schumacher, Kobayashi, Button and Webber as they've all got a spare set or two of tyres and that could count for something.

Glock and Senna had some really bad luck; Senna binned it on his all-or-nothing lap and Glock got stuck in traffic twice. Pic's proving me wrong though; I may have said he was out of his depth but he's doing OK.

Anyone know if NarKar made it on the grid yet?

pasta_maldonado · Post by **pasta_maldonado** » 12 May 2012, 13:53

Waris wrote:Maldonado is the new Montoya.
Senna is the new Barrichello.
Massa is the new Badoer.

Montoya was my favourite driver while he was in the sport, and he drove for Williams which made it better. Now, I support Maldonado and Williams.

Post by **mario** » 12 May 2012, 14:01

AdrianSutil wrote:Edit: What a topsy-turvy top 10

That is really the only way to sum up such a session, as that was a really peculiar way to finish the session. To be fair to Hamilton, whilst he may have robbed us of the spectacle of Maldonado being on pole, to put his car on pole by nearly six tenths of a second is nevertheless impressive.

Still, Maldonado's pace in qualifying was something else, as, indeed, was that of Alonso (the gap between Alonso and Massa is almost as wide as that between Maldonado and Bruno) - Maldonado did hint at his pace in FP3 when he was second fastest, but Alonso never looked remotely competitive.
Strong though they have been, will either Maldonado or Alonso have a major impact tomorrow? Over the longer runs in practise the two Lotus drivers just behind them looked to have better pace; they might have impressed today, but it could be hard for them to stay there during the race, especially with a number of drivers slightly out of position but with more fresh tyres at their disposal.

Similarly, Button and Webber were looking out of sorts compared to their team mates, even if not quite to the same degree. Although Webber was knocked out in part because he and his engineers thought that they'd done enough with that earlier lap, and only realised their mistake when it was too late to send him out, Button's decline in form was a little odd given that he seemed to be the more comfortable driver in the first practise sessions. Then again, Gary Anderson did mention that Button had made a late switch in brake pad material ahead of FP3 as part of an attempt to overcome some balance issues, which might have compromised his set up quite a bit (he switched from Hitco to Carbon Industries brakes because the Carbon Industries brakes are designed to work at a higher temperature - it was an attempt to use some of the heat from the brakes to heat the front tyres more effectively, improving front grip).

Mind you, Vettel's strategy seemed a bit peculiar (and I'm surprised that hasn't drawn any comments so far) - I can understand why he chose not to set a time in the end (he wanted to have a free choice of tyres for tomorrow, which he now has), but if that was the case, why did he then choose to go out on track twice if he had no intention not to set a lap? Surely the second slow lap was superfluous in that case...

Post by **DemocalypseNow** » 12 May 2012, 14:05

mario wrote:Mind you, Vettel's strategy seemed a bit peculiar (and I'm surprised that hasn't drawn any comments so far) - I can understand why he chose not to set a time in the end (he wanted to have a free choice of tyres for tomorrow, which he now has), but if that was the case, why did he then choose to go out on track twice if he had no intention not to set a lap? Surely the second slow lap was superfluous in that case...

He said in an interview he didn't have the raw pace to challenge anyone in Q3 except Rosberg, he was acutally trying to set a competitive time but did not have the speed to do so and backed out.

So yes, apparently the Red Bulls are in 8th and 12th on merit rather than due to bad luck :shock:

mediocre · Post by **mediocre** » 12 May 2012, 14:11

Why even bother about Maldonado? He'll probably crash out anyway, as always when he's in a good position.

GwilymJJames · Post by **GwilymJJames** » 12 May 2012, 14:12

HRT confirm Karthikeyan spun on his first run, damaging the tyres, and then stayed in due to problems with the on-board camera. They also say they're confident of both drivers starting the race.

Klon · Post by **Klon** » 12 May 2012, 14:14

Waris wrote:Senna is the new Barrichello.

Don't even dare. :evil:

GwilymJJames wrote:and then stayed in due to problems with the on-board camera.

Okay, that does it, it's over. We will NOT hear a better excuse during this F1 season. :lol:

pasta_maldonado · Post by **pasta_maldonado** » 12 May 2012, 14:18

mediocre wrote:Why even bother about Maldonado? He'll probably crash out anyway, as always when he's in a good position.

HOW DARE YOU!!

AndreaModa · Post by **AndreaModa** » 12 May 2012, 14:24

Klon wrote:
GwilymJJames wrote:and then stayed in due to problems with the on-board camera.

Okay, that does it, it's over. We will NOT hear a better excuse during this F1 season.

That's just unbelievable! I can't believe they honestly think that's a good enough excuse to be allowed into the race!

Post by **Londoner** » 12 May 2012, 14:28

GwilymJJames wrote:HRT confirm Karthikeyan spun on his first run, damaging the tyres, and then stayed in due to problems with the on-board camera. They also say they're confident of both drivers starting the race.

And there is my new signature :lol:

Post by **mario** » 12 May 2012, 14:35

kostas22 wrote:
mario wrote:Mind you, Vettel's strategy seemed a bit peculiar (and I'm surprised that hasn't drawn any comments so far) - I can understand why he chose not to set a time in the end (he wanted to have a free choice of tyres for tomorrow, which he now has), but if that was the case, why did he then choose to go out on track twice if he had no intention not to set a lap? Surely the second slow lap was superfluous in that case...

He said in an interview he didn't have the raw pace to challenge anyone in Q3 except Rosberg, he was acutally trying to set a competitive time but did not have the speed to do so and backed out.

So yes, apparently the Red Bulls are in 8th and 12th on merit rather than due to bad luck

That answers one question but raises another - why did he go out on that earlier lap where he clearly did not intend to set a time at all (he wasn't even bothering to go to full throttle on the main straight, so it was clear pretty early on that he wasn't going to even try setting a lap time)? That lap was a wasted lap in that case given all he did was to put additional mileage on a set of tyres he might need for the race, which doesn't seem to make much sense.

GwilymJJames wrote:HRT confirm Karthikeyan spun on his first run, damaging the tyres, and then stayed in due to problems with the on-board camera. They also say they're confident of both drivers starting the race.

That is one of the oddest statements that I've heard in a while - were they fearing some sort of Alesi style accident where the camera would fall off and break something? Mind you, it isn't the first time that something has fallen off one of the HRT's this weekend - we did see a sidepod deflector fall of De La Rosa's car in practise, whilst Karthikeyan's car seemed to be behaving pretty weirdly in the final practise session, almost as if something had failed on the rear suspension, towards the end of the session.

AdrianSutil · Post by **AdrianSutil** » 12 May 2012, 15:05

Karthikeyen would be wise to not race tomorrow. I've got no doubt that he would be as quick/slow (delete as appropriate) in race trim with De La Rosa, but his car has been plagued with problems. Electric problems on Friday, his car behaving 'weird' towards to end of practice today and now an on-board carema issue. Read into it what you will, but I've got one question: If Karthikeyen did indeed spin on his first lap, did anyone else see the timer go yellow? Because I didn't. As it does when a car as so much goes off track for mere seconds? I'm sure the SPANISH director wouldve picked up a SPANISH car spinning in qualifying. No offence to HRT, but it sounds like they're making excuses as to why Karthikeyen was so slow.

AndreaModa · Post by **AndreaModa** » 12 May 2012, 15:16

AdrianSutil wrote:Karthikeyen would be wise to not race tomorrow. I've got no doubt that he would be as quick/slow (delete as appropriate) in race trim with De La Rosa, but his car has been plagued with problems. Electric problems on Friday, his car behaving 'weird' towards to end of practice today and now an on-board carema issue. Read into it what you will, but I've got one question: If Karthikeyen did indeed spin on his first lap, did anyone else see the timer go yellow? Because I didn't. As it does when a car as so much goes off track for mere seconds? I'm sure the SPANISH director wouldve picked up a SPANISH car spinning in qualifying. No offence to HRT, but it sounds like they're making excuses as to why Karthikeyen was so slow.

I agree. The only times I saw yellow on the timer were when Senna spun at the end of Q1 and when Kobayashi stopped at the end of Q2.

Klon · Post by **Klon** » 12 May 2012, 15:18

Maybe it was one of these 360° spins where you risk damage but can immediately continue driving. No, I'm not buying that either, but it could be possible.

AndreaModa · Post by **AndreaModa** » 12 May 2012, 15:35

Andrew Benson is reporting on Twitter that McLaren have admitted that Hamilton stopped on track with no fuel, which is obviously not allowed. It'll be interesting to see if he'll get a penalty!

Shizuka · Post by **Shizuka** » 12 May 2012, 15:41

AndreaModa wrote:Andrew Benson is reporting on Twitter that McLaren have admitted that Hamilton stopped on track with no fuel, which is obviously not allowed. It'll be interesting to see if he'll get a penalty!

Slap him that penalty, we've got to have Maldonado on pole!

Phoenix · Post by **Phoenix** » 12 May 2012, 15:41

GwilymJJames wrote:HRT confirm Karthikeyan spun on his first run, damaging the tyres, and then stayed in due to problems with the on-board camera. They also say they're confident of both drivers starting the race.

They talked about a loose onboard camera, so it can be possible. Just remember what happened with Jean Alesi and Gerhard Berger at the 1995 Italian GP. Plus, we don't want Felipe Massa to be struck with an onboard camera in the head so he'd become even slower than the HRTs, do we?

AndreaModa · Post by **AndreaModa** » 12 May 2012, 15:45

Shizuka wrote:
AndreaModa wrote:Andrew Benson is reporting on Twitter that McLaren have admitted that Hamilton stopped on track with no fuel, which is obviously not allowed. It'll be interesting to see if he'll get a penalty!

Slap him that penalty, we've got to have Maldonado on pole!

Bad news I'm afraid:

https://twitter.com/#!/tedkravitz/status/201336479220375552

Stopped with 1.3 litres of fuel in the tank, just above the required amount for a sample! He gets pole by the skin of his teeth!

Sublime_FA11C · Post by **Sublime_FA11C** » 12 May 2012, 15:56

If Maldonado takes flak for being a hit and miss pay driver he at least hits pretty damn well. The phrase pay driver became notorious because these drivers would normally just cruise around without doing anything special, unless that something special involved crashes.

Pastor just doesnt have 'balls-off' mode does he? Allways goes for broke...

Meanwhile i was thinking the past two days that tipping Grosjean for the win was not unconventional enough for this season and that i should ridiculously call a Sauber or Williams on podium... and now i regret not bothering to post it. It would be killer if Maldonando managed a podium esp. if he didn't put a foot wrong all race. Because that's what we all expect after all. Him to indeed put a foot wrong i mean...

AdrianSutil · Post by **AdrianSutil** » 12 May 2012, 16:06

Indeed. Which is why everyone should stop thinking miracles will happen tomorrow. It may all fall apart after the first lap. Look what people, myself included, were saying after Kobayashi qualified 3rd at China behind the Mercedes 'who would drop away'.

Didn't materialize did it.

Mister Fungus · Post by **Mister Fungus** » 12 May 2012, 16:08

I expect Mark Webber to finish 4th

Sublime_FA11C · Post by **Sublime_FA11C** » 12 May 2012, 16:12

Hulkenberg dropped off immediatley after his pole. EDIT - not Kovalainen sorry...
Rosberg went on to win from pole but was expected to fade quickly.
Maldonado dropped off immediatley after his (near)pole.
... went on to win from pole but was expected to fade quickly.

I think i've found a pattern here! I wonder who '...' might be. Massa would be a good one.

Paul Hayes · Post by **Paul Hayes** » 12 May 2012, 16:25

AndreaModa wrote:
Shizuka wrote:
AndreaModa wrote:Andrew Benson is reporting on Twitter that McLaren have admitted that Hamilton stopped on track with no fuel, which is obviously not allowed. It'll be interesting to see if he'll get a penalty!

Slap him that penalty, we've got to have Maldonado on pole!

Bad news I'm afraid:

https://twitter.com/#!/tedkravitz/status/201336479220375552

Stopped with 1.3 litres of fuel in the tank, just above the required amount for a sample! He gets pole by the skin of his teeth!

I think the suggestion is that he should have had enough for the sample *and* to have got back to the pits if he didn't have a "mechanical problem". If he *only* had enough for the sample, then he could be in trouble.

Which would be fun!

Pamphlet · Post by **Pamphlet** » 12 May 2012, 17:06

Massa, stop pluggin' throwing. You can't blame your poor performances on everything else anymore. Especially considering Alonso is third.

Maldonado, on the other hand...wow. WOW. Senna, you're doomed. Barrichello must be feeling kind of giddy right now.

WeirdKerr · Post by **WeirdKerr** » 12 May 2012, 17:14

GwilymJJames wrote:HRT confirm Karthikeyan spun on his first run, damaging the tyres, and then stayed in due to problems with the on-board camera. They also say they're confident of both drivers starting the race.

BEST. EXCUSE. EVER!!!!!!!

Ed24 · Post by **Ed24** » 12 May 2012, 17:32

Pamphlet wrote:Massa, stop pluggin' throwing. You can't blame your poor performances on everything else anymore. Especially considering Alonso is third.

Even from the TV broadcast you could see that he was getting caught up with traffic in the first sector at least, so it's not just empty words. Also, some blame must go to Ferrari for sending him out so early again. It's the 2nd race in a row that he's been out too early and missed the grip happy hour at the end of the session... Of course he probably wouldn't have made Q3 anyway, but he should've been a few places higher.

CoopsII · Post by **CoopsII** » 12 May 2012, 17:40

Pamphlet wrote:Barrichello must be feeling kind of giddy right now.

That'll be the after-affects of Rookie Orientation.

pasta_maldonado · Post by **pasta_maldonado** » 12 May 2012, 17:44

Ed24 wrote:
Pamphlet wrote:Massa, stop pluggin' throwing. You can't blame your poor performances on everything else anymore. Especially considering Alonso is third.

Even from the TV broadcast you could see that he was getting caught up with traffic in the first sector at least, so it's not just empty words. Also, some blame must go to Ferrari for sending him out so early again. It's the 2nd race in a row that he's been out too early and missed the grip happy hour at the end of the session... Of course he probably wouldn't have made Q3 anyway, but he should've been a few places higher.

It has to be said, Massa has lost his edge. The confident, pole setting, winning driver of 2008 is long gone. In 2008, he set so many poles he got bored of talking them through on the review DVD and someone else done it instead.

He doesn't look like he's comfortable in the car. The confidence has gone. Even when he does a good lap, he is outside the top 10. People were saying he had improved when he was 11th/12th/13th on the grid. That is a quite poor performance, considering the pace Alonso seems to be getting out of that shitebox.

I can't see him getting much better during the season. I think Ferrari should replace him, he is just not up to standard. I also don't think he deserved that Ferrari seat in the first place. He didn't set the world alight at Sauber to leap into a top team like Ferrari. As far as I can tell, he was just another driver. He did do good while he was there though (2008). I didn't think he desrved that seat in the first place, and he definately dosn't deserve it now. His terrible accident cannot be used as an excuse, either. It was 2 years ago, and he seems to be becoming a worse driver as the seasons go on, not better as you would expect a good driver to after a serious crash. In 2010 he would have probably won the German Grand Prix, and now he almost seems incapable of hauling the car above 16th on a Saturday afternoon.

I am not hating on him, I think hating on a F1 driver is futile seen as even the worst of them can drive much faster than you, have a wallet the size of the English channell and are loving their job. I just don't think Massa is a good driver anymore

GwilymJJames · Post by **GwilymJJames** » 12 May 2012, 17:46

HAMILTON EXCLUDED - starts 24th.

Post by **Londoner** » 12 May 2012, 17:49

YES!!!

S951 · Post by **S951** » 12 May 2012, 17:49

YES The reverend is now on pole!

Klon · Post by **Klon** » 12 May 2012, 17:50

Maldonado on pole? With tribute to RealRacingRoots and by extension Daniel Bryan:

YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES

Enforcer · Post by **Enforcer** » 12 May 2012, 17:53

British media meltdown in 3... 2... 1...

pasta_maldonado · Post by **pasta_maldonado** » 12 May 2012, 17:54

Klon wrote:Maldonado on pole? With tribute to RealRacingRoots and by extension Daniel Bryan:

YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES

AS CHEIF MALDONADO SUPPORTER HERE, WELL DONE PASTOR. WHAT A LAP!!! YES YES YES!!

Paul Hayes · Post by **Paul Hayes** » 12 May 2012, 17:54

Great news - a Williams on pole, and Hamilton providing some entertainment by fighting his way up through the field in an attempt to get some points... Should be a cracking race!

Shadaza · Post by **Shadaza** » 12 May 2012, 17:54

24th? That is ridiculously Draconian.
I agree he should be penalised, but it seems ridiculous to send him to the back when drivers like Michael Schumacher are allowed not too bother attempting Q3 at all and start 8th. At the worst he should be excluded from Q3, not Qualifying, ridiculous.