2012 Spanish Grand Prix Discussion Thread

Sublime_FA11C · Post by **Sublime_FA11C** » 13 May 2012, 10:08

The stewards are inconsistent again. Hamilton failed to bring his car back into the pits after completing his flying lap. The penalty for doing that is having his time stricken. That seems sensible but which time should be stricken? Hamilton made Q2 and Q3 fairly so why are those times thrown out? And who the hell said that McLaren can pick wheter they want to start from the back row or the pits? WTF is going on?

Are they penalised? Can they choose between penalties given them? Can the stewards just spin a 'Wheel of Penalty' or do they pull them out of a hat? Gimme some consistency...

Speaking of which, i'm sure most of us are glad that Karthikeyan is allowed, and it's almost justified because the spirit of the 107% rule is to weed out the obviously slow cars that embarras the sport, right? He is quick enough blah blah let's let him in, he isn't slower than on other tracks. But the letter of the rule is that you have to post a lap time quick enough. That is the rule! Karthikeyan never did that, he doesn't make the grid. Period.

If his car was damaged and there was no time to make repairs before the end of qualifying, that still doesn't logically call for his inclusion. All i see is:
a) The car suffered a mechanical problem. (tough luck)
b) The driver failed to set a fast enough lap time.
Punishing Hamilton may be ok, since there was a breach of rules and a penalty to go with that, but the penalty doesnt fit the crime at all. Allowing Karthikeyan makes 0% sense and -100% justice. Although i suck at math big time so the numbers may not be 100% accurate...

Enforce the damn rules. And if they suck so much that you'd rather not enforce them... get rid of them.

sswishbone · Post by **sswishbone** » 13 May 2012, 10:17

I have to say echo the majority in thinking the hamilton penalty harsh, it would have made more sense for Q3 exclusion. Regarding the tyre saving tactic schumacher et al used, anyone who does it gets a five place penalty, putting them behind those who finished at the top of Q2. That way they gain no advantage but those failed to make the cut do, problem solved

FullMetalJack · Post by **FullMetalJack** » 13 May 2012, 10:20

Sublime_FA11C wrote:Can the stewards just spin a 'Wheel of Penalty' or do they pull them out of a hat? Gimme some consistency...

They should actually do 'Wheel of Penalty' at the Monaco Grand Prix, use a roulette wheel when someone does something deserving of a penalty.

pablo_h · Post by **pablo_h** » 13 May 2012, 10:41

I'd have to agree that on a weekend the stewards enforced such a high penalty on Hamilton, it's very strange they'd be light on the 107% rule.
I don't even expect consistency of every week after week throughout the year that for the stewards, sometimes rules that are optional, sometimes harshly enforced.
But even I raise eyebrows when it's on the same weekend that some rules are followed, and some not.
Either be lax with everything, or be harsh about everything and I'd understand if one or more people acting as a steward was in a bad mood, and on other weekends are in a good mood.
But don't enforce some rules to the letter of the law and not others on one race weekend

Post by **tommykl** » 13 May 2012, 10:45

Sublime_FA11C wrote:Speaking of which, i'm sure most of us are glad that Karthikeyan is allowed, and it's almost justified because the spirit of the 107% rule is to weed out the obviously slow cars that embarras the sport, right? He is quick enough blah blah let's let him in, he isn't slower than on other tracks. But the letter of the rule is that you have to post a lap time quick enough. That is the rule! Karthikeyan never did that, he doesn't make the grid. Period.

If his car was damaged and there was no time to make repairs before the end of qualifying, that still doesn't logically call for his inclusion. All i see is:
a) The car suffered a mechanical problem. (tough luck)
b) The driver failed to set a fast enough lap time.
Punishing Hamilton may be ok, since there was a breach of rules and a penalty to go with that, but the penalty doesnt fit the crime at all. Allowing Karthikeyan makes 0% sense and -100% justice. Although i suck at math big time so the numbers may not be 100% accurate...

Enforce the damn rules. And if they suck so much that you'd rather not enforce them... get rid of them.

But in that case, every driver who fails to set a lap time in Q1 or posts a very slow lap due to a mechanical problem, even if he is driving for the top teams wouldn't qualify? If Vettel, for example, decides to go out for a flying lap, makes a mistake, returns to the pits, goes out in the dying moments, spins on his flying lap and sets a lap time nowhere near the 107%, would that mean he can't start the race?

AndreaModa · Post by **AndreaModa** » 13 May 2012, 10:54

tommykl wrote:
Sublime_FA11C wrote:Speaking of which, i'm sure most of us are glad that Karthikeyan is allowed, and it's almost justified because the spirit of the 107% rule is to weed out the obviously slow cars that embarras the sport, right? He is quick enough blah blah let's let him in, he isn't slower than on other tracks. But the letter of the rule is that you have to post a lap time quick enough. That is the rule! Karthikeyan never did that, he doesn't make the grid. Period.

If his car was damaged and there was no time to make repairs before the end of qualifying, that still doesn't logically call for his inclusion. All i see is:
a) The car suffered a mechanical problem. (tough luck)
b) The driver failed to set a fast enough lap time.
Punishing Hamilton may be ok, since there was a breach of rules and a penalty to go with that, but the penalty doesnt fit the crime at all. Allowing Karthikeyan makes 0% sense and -100% justice. Although i suck at math big time so the numbers may not be 100% accurate...

Enforce the damn rules. And if they suck so much that you'd rather not enforce them... get rid of them.

But in that case, every driver who fails to set a lap time in Q1 or posts a very slow lap due to a mechanical problem, even if he is driving for the top teams wouldn't qualify? If Vettel, for example, decides to go out for a flying lap, makes a mistake, returns to the pits, goes out in the dying moments, spins on his flying lap and sets a lap time nowhere near the 107%, would that mean he can't start the race?

No because the rules take into consideration practice pace as well, and in a situation like that, it's highly likely that Vettel or another top driver will have set consistent fast laps during at least one of the sessions. The fact here with Karthikeyan is he hasn't done that at all. They're letting him in with very little evidence of him being competent and quick enough in the car.

Post by **DemocalypseNow** » 13 May 2012, 11:28

Hmmm...Perez starts 5th. Checo FTW anyone?

pasta_maldonado · Post by **pasta_maldonado** » 13 May 2012, 11:34

The decision to let that rolling road-block Karthikeyan race is just astonishingly rejectful. He's becoming F1's version of Milka Duno...

AdrianSutil · Post by **AdrianSutil** » 13 May 2012, 11:37

I wonder if that was a glass of vodka in front of Kimi :lol:

pasta_maldonado · Post by **pasta_maldonado** » 13 May 2012, 11:39

I'd like to be the guy who had the Reverend for bole on odds of 200 to 1....

Post by **tommykl** » 13 May 2012, 11:40

AndreaModa wrote:
tommykl wrote:
Sublime_FA11C wrote:Speaking of which, i'm sure most of us are glad that Karthikeyan is allowed, and it's almost justified because the spirit of the 107% rule is to weed out the obviously slow cars that embarras the sport, right? He is quick enough blah blah let's let him in, he isn't slower than on other tracks. But the letter of the rule is that you have to post a lap time quick enough. That is the rule! Karthikeyan never did that, he doesn't make the grid. Period.

If his car was damaged and there was no time to make repairs before the end of qualifying, that still doesn't logically call for his inclusion. All i see is:
a) The car suffered a mechanical problem. (tough luck)
b) The driver failed to set a fast enough lap time.
Punishing Hamilton may be ok, since there was a breach of rules and a penalty to go with that, but the penalty doesnt fit the crime at all. Allowing Karthikeyan makes 0% sense and -100% justice. Although i suck at math big time so the numbers may not be 100% accurate...

Enforce the damn rules. And if they suck so much that you'd rather not enforce them... get rid of them.

But in that case, every driver who fails to set a lap time in Q1 or posts a very slow lap due to a mechanical problem, even if he is driving for the top teams wouldn't qualify? If Vettel, for example, decides to go out for a flying lap, makes a mistake, returns to the pits, goes out in the dying moments, spins on his flying lap and sets a lap time nowhere near the 107%, would that mean he can't start the race?

No because the rules take into consideration practice pace as well, and in a situation like that, it's highly likely that Vettel or another top driver will have set consistent fast laps during at least one of the sessions. The fact here with Karthikeyan is he hasn't done that at all. They're letting him in with very little evidence of him being competent and quick enough in the car.

Take a look at d'Ambrosio in Canada last year. He didn't, at any point in the weekend, set a time within 107% of the Q1 pole time, mostly due to car problems and throwing it into the turn 3 wall. Yet he was still allowed to race, and that didn't seem to cause as much trouble as it does with Narain this weekend.

Enforcer · Post by **Enforcer** » 13 May 2012, 11:45

Watching Brundle and Coulthard do their grid walks, was hoping they would try to talk the same driver at the same time and have to have some form of fight to the death.

No such luck though. They got within about 20 feet of each other when Coulthard was talking to Kobayashi and Brundle to Norbert Haug.

AdrianSutil · Post by **AdrianSutil** » 13 May 2012, 11:48

Enforcer wrote:Watching Brundle and Coulthard do their grid walks, was hoping they would try to talk the same driver at the same time and have to have some form of fight to the death.

No such luck though. They got within about 20 feet of each other when Coulthard was talking to Kobayashi and Brundle to Norbert Haug.

I'd like to think they've made accidental eye-contact a few times and pretended to ignore each other :lol:

WaffleCat · Post by **WaffleCat** » 13 May 2012, 12:03

AdrianSutil wrote:
Enforcer wrote:Watching Brundle and Coulthard do their grid walks, was hoping they would try to talk the same driver at the same time and have to have some form of fight to the death.

No such luck though. They got within about 20 feet of each other when Coulthard was talking to Kobayashi and Brundle to Norbert Haug.

I'd like to think they've made accidental eye-contact a few times and pretended to ignore each other

I remember Brundle saying hello to COulthard before his gridwalk in CHina

Minardi Man · Post by **Minardi Man** » 13 May 2012, 12:04

Alonso up to first, bound to happen really.

Shame for Perez as well

pasta_maldonado · Post by **pasta_maldonado** » 13 May 2012, 12:05

Maldonado stay on him!!!

WaffleCat · Post by **WaffleCat** » 13 May 2012, 12:07

Pic did a 360....and held it quite nicely.

koza · Post by **koza** » 13 May 2012, 12:09

Why live timing isn't working when it's most needed?
Anyone also got this problem?

AdrianSutil · Post by **AdrianSutil** » 13 May 2012, 12:10

Vergne and Massa jumped up well. Battling for 10th.

WeirdKerr · Post by **WeirdKerr** » 13 May 2012, 12:10

AdrianSutil wrote:
Enforcer wrote:Watching Brundle and Coulthard do their grid walks, was hoping they would try to talk the same driver at the same time and have to have some form of fight to the death.

No such luck though. They got within about 20 feet of each other when Coulthard was talking to Kobayashi and Brundle to Norbert Haug.

I'd like to think they've made accidental eye-contact a few times and pretended to ignore each other

it will happen lol

Minardi Man · Post by **Minardi Man** » 13 May 2012, 12:13

These Pirellis are insane, degrading this quickly?

AdrianSutil · Post by **AdrianSutil** » 13 May 2012, 12:14

Both Red Bull's already in. Inspired or failed?

Epic move from Pic on the HRT

TomWazzleshaw · Post by **TomWazzleshaw** » 13 May 2012, 12:15

AdrianSutil wrote:Both Red Bull's already in. Inspired or failed?

Epic move from Pic on the HRT

Nah. They're just paying the price for their weird qualifying strategy yesterday :lol:

pasta_maldonado · Post by **pasta_maldonado** » 13 May 2012, 12:19

MALDONADO LEADS...... but for how long?

AdrianSutil · Post by **AdrianSutil** » 13 May 2012, 12:20

Kova P6! Go on son!!

FMecha · Post by **FMecha** » 13 May 2012, 12:21

Anyone expecting Maldonado to be the next Winkelhock? :lol:

Pointrox · Post by **Pointrox** » 13 May 2012, 12:23

Schumacher out. What on Earth did Senna do?

Oh... that was Schumacher actually! Way to overshoot, oldy.

tristan1117 · Post by **tristan1117** » 13 May 2012, 12:23

I think Williams should have pitted Pastor earlier. There was no point in holding him in and hoping that he could get past Alonso with the worn soft tyres.

Ferrarist · Post by **Ferrarist** » 13 May 2012, 12:23

And what was Schumacher doing?

Minardi Man · Post by **Minardi Man** » 13 May 2012, 12:24

Pointrox wrote:Schumacher out. What on Earth did Senna do?

More like what on earth was Schumacher doing?! :shock:

pasta_maldonado · Post by **pasta_maldonado** » 13 May 2012, 12:25

Poor old Schumi's thrown it away again... 2 points after 5 races in a race-winning car will make him even more frustrated

tristan1117 · Post by **tristan1117** » 13 May 2012, 12:25

Safety car?

DanielPT · Post by **DanielPT** » 13 May 2012, 12:26

And Schumacher takes out someone... I only failed in the name of whom he was taking out!

AdrianSutil · Post by **AdrianSutil** » 13 May 2012, 12:26

Schumacher-Senna crash. Schumi not happy!

Edit: He just smacked him up the arse?! WTF lol

DanielPT · Post by **DanielPT** » 13 May 2012, 12:27

And another blunder in a McLaren pit stop. Less costly but still a blunder...

Post by **DemocalypseNow** » 13 May 2012, 12:27

Michael Schumacher, what a dunce. He makes a stupid mistake and then has the audacity to call the other guy and idiot!

GO HOME MICHAEL SCHUMACHER

Shadaza · Post by **Shadaza** » 13 May 2012, 12:27

Timing is broken.

GwilymJJames · Post by **GwilymJJames** » 13 May 2012, 12:28

How are McLaren so bad at those?

Klon · Post by **Klon** » 13 May 2012, 12:29

Michael, nice try, but Ralf was better at Hockenheim. :lol:

Oh my, another McLaren blunder. It's like 1999, noone wants to win this championship.

tristan1117 · Post by **tristan1117** » 13 May 2012, 12:30

Looks like Webber needs a new wing... Bad weekend for him.