2012 Spanish Grand Prix Discussion Thread

[Pamphlet]

By that point in the year, BMW probably wasn't a race-winning prospect, no matter how hard Bobby K tried

Correct. Which makes things all the more sad for him and Nicky.

[TomWazzleshaw]

By that point in the year, BMW probably wasn't a race-winning prospect, no matter how hard Bobby K tried

Correct. Which makes things all the more sad for him and Nicky.

Sad thing was it could have been the championship that got away from Kubica. I mean, it was very similar to Frenzten's 1999 championship challenges, and the BMW was a better car than the Jordan ever was.

[DanielPT]

Given that he led from lights to flag (almost) it is hard to call it a fluke. Yes, he got lucky to have wet weather, but then Bourdais wasn't even close of him. And I am no Vettel fan.

Who's to say he wouldn't have been? Bourdais qualified 4th but stalled on the grid. Out of those with the real race winning cars, Hamilton and Raikkonen were way back, whereas Kovalainen and Massa had no pace. Kubica did all he could.

When I usually think of a fluke result I think of a set of circumstances outside of a driver's control in that race that takes him to that place. A massive gamble with tyres during changing weather that went right or a very well placed safety car or even strange incidents that take rivals out of the race. In that case, Vettel was lucky to get on pole because others made a mess of their qualification, but he made the best of it and was there to take advantage. The same can be said in the race where he fast enough to grab the victory.

[Sublime_FA11C]

I don't know if i would call Maldonado charismatic but his driving certainly has some appeal. You could cheer him because he would try too hard and then you could call him a clown because he would bin it while trying too hard, but that's what currently makes him damn likeable.

If you stuck him in one of the 'new' teams he would start driving the wheels of it and would probably be the only one to punch above his weight.

And i dare say that if for Spain he and Alonso swapped cars, Alonso would have won with only slightly faster times while Maldonado would have struggled a bit more in the Ferrari. Which implies not only that Williams improved but also that Maldonado is fast.

And on top of all that, i don't think any pay-driver before has ever managed to graduate to fully respected driver. Maldonado was probably the least respected one in a while...

[Pamphlet]

And on top of all that, i don't think any pay-driver before has ever managed to graduate to fully respected driver. Maldonado was probably the least respected one in a while...

Schumacher and Alonso?

[Sublime_FA11C]

And on top of all that, i don't think any pay-driver before has ever managed to graduate to fully respected driver. Maldonado was probably the least respected one in a while...

Schumacher and Alonso?

They were pay drivers?

All drivers bring some sponsorship, i wouldn't call that being a pay driver. Even if you have to outright pay for your first shot, Schumacher immediatley set the paddock on fire (with his driving not matches like a few days ago), and i don't remember the impression Alonso left but he was tipped for better things to come.

[AndreaModa]

That's the thing, but then I wouldn't call Maldonado a true pay driver to be honest. He just has heavy backing from Chavez and Venezuela. Drivers that actually themselves pay cash to drive, now that's a pay driver - in the vein of Deletraz, Lavaggi, etc.

[AdrianSutil]

I wouldn't call Maldonado a pay-driver, more 'heavily sponsored'. Some drivers bring very little to a team (what exactly does Hulkenberg bring?!) whilst others have a bagfull of their own cash (looking at you Lavaggi).

I'd put Maldonado alongside the likes of Alex Yoong, Bruno Senna and to an extent, Karthikeyen. All three bring millions in personal sponsorship but don't 'pay' for their drive. The sponsors technically do.

[WeirdKerr]

I have come to the rather interesting conclusion that this year there are no front runners and what we have is a midfield group of cars, in which no one team is consistent enough to rise above it.....

[pasta_maldonado]

I have come to the rather interesting conclusion that this year there are no front runners and what we have is a midfield group of cars, in which no one team is consistent enough to rise above it.....

In every race the team who won the last race do rubbish. Though I'd love to see Willians break the mould and win again at Monaco

[johnston21]

It appeared to me that in Jean-Eric Vergne's 1'st stint he was running Softs except on his Left Rear which looked like a Hard. ???

So it was HE that got hit by Di Resta on lap one, not Vettel. How they both got away without any major damage is beyond me.

There are photos of the start which show that Vergne's left rear was a standard soft tyre (with clearly marked yellow sidewalls), but it looks like something rubbed the tyre markings off after that (or, alternatively, smeared rubber across the markings and covered them up). A bit of wheel banging with Di Resta would make sense given that he spent much of the race fighting with the Toro Rosso drivers...[/quote]
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Jean-Eric Vergne Tire Strategy: Soft (10) Hard (13) Soft (17) Hard (25)

Must have been his third stint. If someone who still has a copy of the race can check this out after lap 23 but before lap 31 (if I remember). I was sure his left rear was different. The battle with Di Resta was on the right side of Vergne's car.

[TomWazzleshaw]

It appeared to me that in Jean-Eric Vergne's 1'st stint he was running Softs except on his Left Rear which looked like a Hard. ???

So it was HE that got hit by Di Resta on lap one, not Vettel. How they both got away without any major damage is beyond me.

There are photos of the start which show that Vergne's left rear was a standard soft tyre (with clearly marked yellow sidewalls), but it looks like something rubbed the tyre markings off after that (or, alternatively, smeared rubber across the markings and covered them up). A bit of wheel banging with Di Resta would make sense given that he spent much of the race fighting with the Toro Rosso drivers...

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Jean-Eric Vergne Tire Strategy: Soft (10) Hard (13) Soft (17) Hard (25)

Must have been his third stint. If someone who still has a copy of the race can check this out after lap 23 but before lap 31 (if I remember). I was sure his left rear was different. The battle with Di Resta was on the right side of Vergne's car.[/quote]

Nope, Di Resta was on the left hand side as this was the run down to the chicane around the back of the circuit. It was right front to left rear contact if my memory is correct.

[johnston21]

Ok, thanks for checking. As others have said, it must have been rubbed-off markings. I'm sure teams would have been on it had it actually had been a miss-match.

[TomWazzleshaw]

Ok, thanks for checking. As others have said, it must have been rubbed-off markings. I'm sure teams would have been on it had it actually had been a miss-match.

Plus, it would have been a hell of a handful for Vergne to deal with

[CoopsII]

i don't think any pay-driver before has ever managed to graduate to fully respected driver.

Andreous Nikolaus Lauda.

[Ferrim]

If I remember correctly, Ayrton da Silva started to race in Europe because his father could afford to pay the bills. Does that count as a pay-driver?

For me, a pay-driver is someone who is chosen because of his money ("he's desperately slow, he's there because of his money...") without having any other merit. Maldonado is a GP2 winner, Senna is a runner up; both have won Monaco races with GP2 cars, so it's clear that they can hold their own. Today's "pay-drivers" aren't much like the ones of yesterday in that sense.

An obvious pay-driver would be María de Villota, but she's not actually racing the Marussia. Of the current grid, Narain Karthikeyan is the only who can be called a pay-driver (hint: as soon as he stops paying, he will lose his seat )

[DanielPT]

If I remember correctly, Ayrton da Silva started to race in Europe because his father could afford to pay the bills. Does that count as a pay-driver?

For me, a pay-driver is someone who is chosen because of his money ("he's desperately slow, he's there because of his money...") without having any other merit. Maldonado is a GP2 winner, Senna is a runner up; both have won Monaco races with GP2 cars, so it's clear that they can hold their own. Today's "pay-drivers" aren't much like the ones of yesterday in that sense.

An obvious pay-driver would be María de Villota, but she's not actually racing the Marussia. Of the current grid, Narain Karthikeyan is the only who can be called a pay-driver (hint: as soon as he stops paying, he will lose his seat )

I agree. Even arriving at GP2 without paying for a seat is pretty much impossible, never mind F1. Obviously the best drivers get backed up. I don't think Hamilton would have had such a meteoric rise through the ranks if McLaren weren't paying him the best seats... That is how it works today. Karthikeyan is the last of the true pay-drivers.

[Sublime_FA11C]

Well i stand corrected then. Not the only thing i got wrong this weekend. At least Maldonado was derided and has improved mightily.

[Row Man Gross-Gene]

i don't think any pay-driver before has ever managed to graduate to fully respected driver.

Andreous Nikolaus Lauda.

This. In the true sense of the phrase. But he was fast before he even had a chance to be a pay driver I'd wager.