The end is near for Felipe?

Salamander · Post by **Salamander** » 16 May 2012, 21:04

Wizzie wrote:
BlindCaveSalamander wrote:To be fair, who wouldn't it scare?

Daniel Melrose

I think we all know Daniel Melrose's 2004 was just HWNSNBM driving under a fake name.

Captain Hammer · Post by **Captain Hammer** » 17 May 2012, 04:41

According to Mika Salo, Frank Williams might be prepared to drop Bruno Senna in the near future; Salo says he's expecting it before the end of the year. So if Senna gets replaced and Massa gets replaced, the grid will have no Brazilian drivers. When was the last time that happened?

And with Vitaly Petrov replacing Jarno Trulli at Caterham, there are currently no Italian drivers on the grid. The last time that happened was at the 1973 German Grand Prix. So we could end up having a season with no Italian and no Brazilian drivers, and I don't think that has ever happened before.

TomWazzleshaw · Post by **TomWazzleshaw** » 17 May 2012, 06:29

Captain Hammer wrote:According to Mika Salo, Frank Williams might be prepared to drop Bruno Senna in the near future; Salo says he's expecting it before the end of the year. So if Senna gets replaced and Massa gets replaced, the grid will have no Brazilian drivers. When was the last time that happened?

After some quick research, my most educated guess is the 1971 Dutch Grand Prix

Backmarker · Post by **Backmarker** » 17 May 2012, 07:05

Wizzie wrote:
Captain Hammer wrote:According to Mika Salo, Frank Williams might be prepared to drop Bruno Senna in the near future; Salo says he's expecting it before the end of the year. So if Senna gets replaced and Massa gets replaced, the grid will have no Brazilian drivers. When was the last time that happened?

After some quick research, my most educated guess is the 1971 Dutch Grand Prix

Thanks to a FOCA boycott there were no Brazilians who entered the 1982 San Marino Grand Prix.

If Senna and Massa got sacked this year and no Brazilian drivers were hired for next year or during the year, it would be the first season since 1969 not to feature a Brazilian driver at all.

Post by **mario** » 17 May 2012, 14:01

Captain Hammer wrote:According to Mika Salo, Frank Williams might be prepared to drop Bruno Senna in the near future; Salo says he's expecting it before the end of the year. So if Senna gets replaced and Massa gets replaced, the grid will have no Brazilian drivers. When was the last time that happened?

And with Vitaly Petrov replacing Jarno Trulli at Caterham, there are currently no Italian drivers on the grid. The last time that happened was at the 1973 German Grand Prix. So we could end up having a season with no Italian and no Brazilian drivers, and I don't think that has ever happened before.

Toto Wolff was asked about the rumour that Bruno Senna might be replaced by Bottas later this year after the Spanish GP, although his response was pretty unambiguous:

"We are not replacing anybody" ... "The decision to take on Bruno and Pastor was a very carefully taken one and we will push on - not do some knee-jerk exercise."

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/99651
Even if Bruno Senna were dropped by Williams, I could still see him possibly staying on in F1 at another midfield to rear of field team - the amount of personal sponsorship that he can bring to a team would make him fairly attractive, for a start, and whilst he has had some poor weekends he has also shown flashes of promise (such as in Malaysia).

DanielPT · Post by **DanielPT** » 17 May 2012, 14:07

mario wrote:http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/99651
Even if Bruno Senna were dropped by Williams, I could still see him possibly staying on in F1 at another midfield to rear of field team - the amount of personal sponsorship that he can bring to a team would make him fairly attractive, for a start, and whilst he has had some poor weekends he has also shown flashes of promise (such as in Malaysia).

Even if those flashes of brilliance are far too few in between the litany of mistakes...

mlincoln · Post by **mlincoln** » 18 May 2012, 02:05

If he does not score points in the next couple of races, it would surely be the end of the road for him. He has been struggling since coming back from the injury and that is not something to realize of his character considering how he was fighting for the championship just a season before.

Though this might be one of those mind games Ferrari is playing with the people again.

Pamphlet · Post by **Pamphlet** » 18 May 2012, 02:28

By all means, the guys at Ferrari are not the most honest and kind people on the planet. Sure, we all know how well they treated Felipe after his crash (only McLaren's treatment of Hakkinen rivals it in my mind), but you have to remember that this is the same team that shoved Schumacher away in favor of Raikkonen...whom they also shoved away in favor of Alonso.

I still think Domenicali AND di Montezemolo need to go, along with Massa. If not before him. That is, if Ferrari are to ever stand a chance of doing well again.

AdrianSutil · Post by **AdrianSutil** » 18 May 2012, 07:54

Ferrari dumped Schumacher in favour of Raikkonen? Is that way Schumi decided to 'retire'?! :roll:

Post by **DemocalypseNow** » 18 May 2012, 08:00

AdrianSutil wrote:Ferrari dumped Schumacher in favour of Raikkonen? Is that way Schumi decided to 'retire'?!

Allegedly, yes. But I still don't buy into that conspiracy theory.

RonDenisDeletraz · Post by **RonDenisDeletraz** » 18 May 2012, 08:45

AdrianSutil wrote:Ferrari dumped Schumacher in favour of Raikkonen? Is that way Schumi decided to 'retire'?!

And all I can say to that is Bullshite

LellaLombardi · Post by **LellaLombardi** » 18 May 2012, 08:52

I had heard that Raikkonen for 07 at Ferrari was a done deal, but it would more likely be Massa that was ousted. Schumacher was also probably not keen on being team mates with Raikkonen so he took the opportunity to retire so Massa could also keep his seat. I wouldn't call it an ousting.

DanielPT · Post by **DanielPT** » 18 May 2012, 09:00

kostas22 wrote:
AdrianSutil wrote:Ferrari dumped Schumacher in favour of Raikkonen? Is that way Schumi decided to 'retire'?!

Allegedly, yes. But I still don't buy into that conspiracy theory.

I still think Schumacher was not forced to retire, but was, instead, pushed into it. His comeback is proof enough that he wanted more.

LellaLombardi wrote:I had heard that Raikkonen for 07 at Ferrari was a done deal, but it would more likely be Massa that was ousted. Schumacher was also probably not keen on being team mates with Raikkonen so he took the opportunity to retire so Massa could also keep his seat. I wouldn't call it an ousting.

Thing is that he decided to come back to face Rosberg as team-mate and everyone knew he was fast, so it was a risk. Schumacher still seems convinced that he can beat Rosberg and make is comeback a success. This makes me think that Schumacher instead relished on the prospect of facing Raikkonen. Ferrari convinced him otherwise.

Sunshine_Baby_[IT] · Post by **Sunshine_Baby_[IT]** » 18 May 2012, 17:18

Pamphlet wrote:By all means, the guys at Ferrari are not the most honest and kind people on the planet. Sure, we all know how well they treated Felipe after his crash (only McLaren's treatment of Hakkinen rivals it in my mind), but you have to remember that this is the same team that shoved Schumacher away in favor of Raikkonen...whom they also shoved away in favor of Alonso.

I still think Domenicali AND di Montezemolo need to go, along with Massa. If not before him. That is, if Ferrari are to ever stand a chance of doing well again.

It's possible that Domenicali will go, but unluckily Montezemolo will never go...

IdeFan · Post by **IdeFan** » 18 May 2012, 21:17

Sunshine_Baby_[IT] wrote:
Pamphlet wrote:By all means, the guys at Ferrari are not the most honest and kind people on the planet. Sure, we all know how well they treated Felipe after his crash (only McLaren's treatment of Hakkinen rivals it in my mind), but you have to remember that this is the same team that shoved Schumacher away in favor of Raikkonen...whom they also shoved away in favor of Alonso.

I still think Domenicali AND di Montezemolo need to go, along with Massa. If not before him. That is, if Ferrari are to ever stand a chance of doing well again.

It's possible that Domenicali will go, but unluckily Montezemolo will never go...

Old age will claim him eventually, though we've been saying that about Bernie for years...

People say he's been struggling since his injury, but I actually think that isn't quite the case. I actually think its Ferrari's blatant Alonso favouritism (something he accepted for one year with Schumacher and never really faced with Raikkonen) that has crushed his spirit, Germany 2010 being the biggest blow. He started well in 2010, outqualified Alonso first time out and claimed two podiums, but like his compatriot Barrichello, Felipe is an emotional driver and without proper support from his team he couldn't perform as well as he did initially.

Phoenix · Post by **Phoenix** » 18 May 2012, 21:40

IdeFan wrote:
Sunshine_Baby_[IT] wrote:
Pamphlet wrote:By all means, the guys at Ferrari are not the most honest and kind people on the planet. Sure, we all know how well they treated Felipe after his crash (only McLaren's treatment of Hakkinen rivals it in my mind), but you have to remember that this is the same team that shoved Schumacher away in favor of Raikkonen...whom they also shoved away in favor of Alonso.

I still think Domenicali AND di Montezemolo need to go, along with Massa. If not before him. That is, if Ferrari are to ever stand a chance of doing well again.

It's possible that Domenicali will go, but unluckily Montezemolo will never go...

Old age will claim him eventually, though we've been saying that about Bernie for years...

People say he's been struggling since his injury, but I actually think that isn't quite the case. I actually think its Ferrari's blatant Alonso favouritism (something he accepted for one year with Schumacher and never really faced with Raikkonen) that has crushed his spirit, Germany 2010 being the biggest blow. He started well in 2010, outqualified Alonso first time out and claimed two podiums, but like his compatriot Barrichello, Felipe is an emotional driver and without proper support from his team he couldn't perform as well as he did initially.

For me, Massa was more talented than Barrichello (sorry Klon!), and Barrichello managed to claim podiums galore and wins when with Michael Schumacher at Ferrari. The car was miles better, yes, but the spirit is what matters. And would you say Barrichello wasn't a psychological driver? Massa was never the same after Hungary 2009, period, just like Karl Wendlinger wasn't the same after Monaco 1994.

Backmarker · Post by **Backmarker** » 18 May 2012, 21:59

Phoenix wrote:For me, Massa was more talented than Barrichello (sorry Klon!), and Barrichello managed to claim podiums galore and wins when with Michael Schumacher at Ferrari. The car was miles better, yes, but the spirit is what matters. And would you say Barrichello wasn't a psychological driver? Massa was never the same after Hungary 2009, period, just like Karl Wendlinger wasn't the same after Monaco 1994.

I always got the feeling that Barrichello wasn't quite the same after the events of Imola 1994 - not a lot of difference, but a little more reticence or fear in his driving - which is a good thing to some extent, but also meant he was always holding back a little.

Phoenix · Post by **Phoenix** » 18 May 2012, 22:12

Backmarker wrote:
Phoenix wrote:For me, Massa was more talented than Barrichello (sorry Klon!), and Barrichello managed to claim podiums galore and wins when with Michael Schumacher at Ferrari. The car was miles better, yes, but the spirit is what matters. And would you say Barrichello wasn't a psychological driver? Massa was never the same after Hungary 2009, period, just like Karl Wendlinger wasn't the same after Monaco 1994.

I always got the feeling that Barrichello wasn't quite the same after the events of Imola 1994 - not a lot of difference, but a little more reticence or fear in his driving - which is a good thing to some extent, but also meant he was always holding back a little.

For me, Barrichello spent too much time in midfield teams (namely Jordan and Stewart) than when he finally made it into a top team, it was to play second fiddle for Michael Schumacher in Ferrari.

pasta_maldonado · Post by **pasta_maldonado** » 18 May 2012, 22:20

Phoenix wrote:
Backmarker wrote:
Phoenix wrote:For me, Massa was more talented than Barrichello (sorry Klon!), and Barrichello managed to claim podiums galore and wins when with Michael Schumacher at Ferrari. The car was miles better, yes, but the spirit is what matters. And would you say Barrichello wasn't a psychological driver? Massa was never the same after Hungary 2009, period, just like Karl Wendlinger wasn't the same after Monaco 1994.

I always got the feeling that Barrichello wasn't quite the same after the events of Imola 1994 - not a lot of difference, but a little more reticence or fear in his driving - which is a good thing to some extent, but also meant he was always holding back a little.

For me, Barrichello spent too much time in midfield teams (namely Jordan and Stewart) than when he finally made it into a top team, it was to play second fiddle for Michael Schumacher in Ferrari.

If only Rubens had gone to Williams instead of Ralf 'bin it' Schumacher

Ed24 · Post by **Ed24** » 20 May 2012, 17:27

I've probably said it before here, but I think that if Massa is slower after Hungary 2009, it's more because he's also had a child in that time and not just because of the accident. Having a near-fatal crash when your wife was pregnant would almost certainly have a large subconscious effect and all it takes is 0.5% or whatever of a loss and it's everything in F1.

Phoenix · Post by **Phoenix** » 20 May 2012, 17:36

Ed24 wrote:I've probably said it before here, but I think that if Massa is slower after Hungary 2009, it's more because he's also had a child in that time and not just because of the accident. Having a near-fatal crash when your wife was pregnant would almost certainly have a large subconscious effect and all it takes is 0.5% or whatever of a loss and it's everything in F1.

In that case, I think Massa should quit immediately. He's probably earned enough money.

pasta_maldonado · Post by **pasta_maldonado** » 20 May 2012, 20:55

Phoenix wrote:
Ed24 wrote:I've probably said it before here, but I think that if Massa is slower after Hungary 2009, it's more because he's also had a child in that time and not just because of the accident. Having a near-fatal crash when your wife was pregnant would almost certainly have a large subconscious effect and all it takes is 0.5% or whatever of a loss and it's everything in F1.

In that case, I think Massa should quit immediately. He's probably earned enough money.

I don't think he enjoys it as much as he once did

AdrianSutil · Post by **AdrianSutil** » 21 May 2012, 05:09

pasta_maldonado wrote:
Phoenix wrote:
Ed24 wrote:I've probably said it before here, but I think that if Massa is slower after Hungary 2009, it's more because he's also had a child in that time and not just because of the accident. Having a near-fatal crash when your wife was pregnant would almost certainly have a large subconscious effect and all it takes is 0.5% or whatever of a loss and it's everything in F1.

In that case, I think Massa should quit immediately. He's probably earned enough money.

I don't think he enjoys it as much as he once did

If the reason is because of his young family, he shouldn't even turn up to Monaco let alone see out the season. As soon as you start to have any doubt about your racing career and the dangers is obviously brings, then it's time to get out whilst you still can. That's why we still have guys like Jackie Stewart still walking around. He knew when he wanted to end his racing career and did exactly that. Got out as soon as he knew.

TomWazzleshaw · Post by **TomWazzleshaw** » 21 May 2012, 05:56

AdrianSutil wrote:
pasta_maldonado wrote:I don't think he enjoys it as much as he once did

If the reason is because of his young family, he shouldn't even turn up to Monaco let alone see out the season. As soon as you start to have any doubt about your racing career and the dangers is obviously brings, then it's time to get out whilst you still can. That's why we still have guys like Jackie Stewart still walking around. He knew when he wanted to end his racing career and did exactly that. Got out as soon as he knew.

In much the same way Jochen Rindt would have gotten out had he lived to the end of 1970

jackanderton · Post by **jackanderton** » 21 May 2012, 09:54

kostas22 wrote:
AdrianSutil wrote:Ferrari dumped Schumacher in favour of Raikkonen? Is that way Schumi decided to 'retire'?!

Allegedly, yes. But I still don't buy into that conspiracy theory.

You have a conspiracy theory, others don't.

Ferrim · Post by **Ferrim** » 21 May 2012, 10:13

I don't think it was a conspiracy. Montezemolo thought that hiring Räikkönen was the best for the team, he went and did it. Then Schumacher had to decide if he wanted to stay with Kimi as a teammate, and he didn't. Some people say it's because he was scared, I think it's because he didn't feel it was fair from Ferrari to do it to him (ie. hiring another driver before he had made his decision) after so many years of success.

Sunshine_Baby_[IT] · Post by **Sunshine_Baby_[IT]** » 23 May 2012, 19:44

Ferrim wrote:I don't think it was a conspiracy. Montezemolo thought that hiring Räikkönen was the best for the team, he went and did it. Then Schumacher had to decide if he wanted to stay with Kimi as a teammate, and he didn't. Some people say it's because he was scared, I think it's because he didn't feel it was fair from Ferrari to do it to him (ie. hiring another driver before he had made his decision) after so many years of success.

I don't think that Ferrari fired Schumacher because of Raikkonen. If it was so and Schumacher wouldn't stop racing in F1 at that time, probably he simply would have been racing for another team in 2007. I don't think he was scared about Raikkonen, because he probably would have just raced for another team if he wanted to stay, and because in the present years he showed it's not a big problem for him to have a team mate who has better results (and I don't think that in 2007 he would have been really worst than Kimi).

This is my post number 500! :roll:

Enforcer · Post by **Enforcer** » 23 May 2012, 20:47

Ferrim wrote:I don't think it was a conspiracy. Montezemolo thought that hiring Räikkönen was the best for the team, he went and did it. Then Schumacher had to decide if he wanted to stay with Kimi as a teammate, and he didn't. Some people say it's because he was scared, I think it's because he didn't feel it was fair from Ferrari to do it to him (ie. hiring another driver before he had made his decision) after so many years of success.

The suggestion at the time was that he didn't want to stall Massa's career by staying and forcing him out of Ferrari.

Dunno if that's true though.

Salamander · Post by **Salamander** » 24 May 2012, 20:30

Enforcer wrote:
Ferrim wrote:I don't think it was a conspiracy. Montezemolo thought that hiring Räikkönen was the best for the team, he went and did it. Then Schumacher had to decide if he wanted to stay with Kimi as a teammate, and he didn't. Some people say it's because he was scared, I think it's because he didn't feel it was fair from Ferrari to do it to him (ie. hiring another driver before he had made his decision) after so many years of success.

The suggestion at the time was that he didn't want to stall Massa's career by staying and forcing him out of Ferrari.

Dunno if that's true though.

I think that was the case. I believe the team's preference was a Schumacher-Raikkonen lineup in 2007, but Schumacher didn't want to shoot Massa's career in the foot when he'd just got into a top car and was doing fairly well.

Bleu · Post by **Bleu** » 24 May 2012, 21:03

"At the end of the year, I have decided together with the team that I'm going to retire from racing."

This is what Schumacher said in post-race press conference in Monza 2006.

Salamander · Post by **Salamander** » 24 May 2012, 21:30

Bleu wrote:"At the end of the year, I have decided together with the team that I'm going to retire from racing."

This is what Schumacher said in post-race press conference in Monza 2006.

Of course, that's the official line, he's hardly going to come out and say, "I'm retiring because I don't want to impede Felipe's career" or something, it'd make Massa look bad. That line could be interpreted either way, either the team convinced him to retire, or he announced his intention to retire and the team accepted it. I do remember that Massa and Schumacher were quite friendly, though.

That's all assuming I'm right, though.

dr-baker · Post by **dr-baker** » 24 May 2012, 21:57

BlindCaveSalamander wrote:
Bleu wrote:"At the end of the year, I have decided together with the team that I'm going to retire from racing."

This is what Schumacher said in post-race press conference in Monza 2006.

Of course, that's the official line, he's hardly going to come out and say, "I'm retiring because I don't want to impede Felipe's career" or something, it'd make Massa look bad. That line could be interpreted either way, either the team convinced him to retire, or he announced his intention to retire and the team accepted it. I do remember that Massa and Schumacher were quite friendly, though.

That's all assuming I'm right, though.

This is what I had always assumed to be the truth.

FullMetalJack · Post by **FullMetalJack** » 24 May 2012, 22:24

Bleu wrote:"At the end of the year, I have decided together with the team that I'm going to retire from racing."

Is that how Massa's going to have to say it a few races before the end of the season? Wouldn't be surprised because let's face it, I have more chance of driving for Ferrari in 2013 than Massa.

DanielPT · Post by **DanielPT** » 25 May 2012, 09:51

dr-baker wrote:
BlindCaveSalamander wrote:
Bleu wrote:"At the end of the year, I have decided together with the team that I'm going to retire from racing."

This is what Schumacher said in post-race press conference in Monza 2006.

Of course, that's the official line, he's hardly going to come out and say, "I'm retiring because I don't want to impede Felipe's career" or something, it'd make Massa look bad. That line could be interpreted either way, either the team convinced him to retire, or he announced his intention to retire and the team accepted it. I do remember that Massa and Schumacher were quite friendly, though.

That's all assuming I'm right, though.

This is what I had always assumed to be the truth.

I find it difficult to see Schumacher that way. The ruthless winner, the "I will cheat my way into a championship win if I need to", the "I will use and abuse of my team-mates second driver position given any chance", the "I don't care about the others or their safety as long as I win" or just "Pig" as one friend of mine used to call him suddenly went soft and decided to help the career of his team-mate. Very much Driven-like history, if you ask me. Anyway, it is a bit bizarre...

solarcold · Post by **solarcold** » 25 May 2012, 11:41

Felipe on podium at Monaco. Remember.

CoopsII · Post by **CoopsII** » 25 May 2012, 11:48

solarcold wrote:Felipe on podium at Monaco. Remember.

Twice I think, wasnt it?

RonDenisDeletraz · Post by **RonDenisDeletraz** » 25 May 2012, 12:04

CoopsII wrote:
solarcold wrote:Felipe on podium at Monaco. Remember.

Twice I think, wasnt it?

Sadly I doubt it will ever happen again.

14 Hundred Hours · Post by **14 Hundred Hours** » 25 May 2012, 16:08

eurobrun wrote:
CoopsII wrote:
solarcold wrote:Felipe on podium at Monaco. Remember.

Twice I think, wasnt it?

Sadly I doubt it will ever happen again.

Maldonado just won a race... there is a chance Felipe may be on podium again!
He'll likely jeff the chance up though

Sunshine_Baby_[IT] · Post by **Sunshine_Baby_[IT]** » 26 May 2012, 17:19

14 Hundred Hours wrote:
eurobrun wrote:Sadly I doubt it will ever happen again.

Maldonado just won a race... there is a chance Felipe may be on podium again!
He'll likely jeff the chance up though

I still hope it could happen.

Pointrox · Post by **Pointrox** » 26 May 2012, 18:28

Actually, Felipe has some considerable chance given his qualifying pace was much better than before. Just the fact he broke into Q3 being on provisional pole was impressive, and the fact he qualified just behind Fernando, 0.15 seconds behind, is an improvement that can't go unnoticed.

However, this might be the last hurrah for poor Felipe. I hope he will do his best.