RIP Manor Racing (2010-2017)

JJMonty · Post by **JJMonty** » 03 Jul 2012, 10:32

It sounds like she went under the truck and her head took the brunt of the impact

Accelerated suddenly? Bloody hell! I hope this was a technical problem like a stuck throttle rather than driver error i.e. hit throttle instead of brake.

Eitherway, fingers crossed that she is not as badly injured as the news is making it out to be

Cynon · Post by **Cynon** » 03 Jul 2012, 10:41

Everything I've heard (what little I have heard) suggests a stuck throttle. I don't think that's as important as wishing that de Villota isn't seriously injured, however.

This certainly throws a cloud over the British GP.

Post by **mario** » 03 Jul 2012, 10:55

madmark1974 wrote:Hoep you guys don't mind the 'live updates', but the BBC story has been updated again :

The East of England Ambulance Service said Villota had suffered life-threatening injuries.

BBC Cambridgeshire presenter Chris Mann, who witnessed the crash, said the car had completed a circuit when it "suddenly accelerated" into the back of the lorry.

"From where I was standing it looked like the helmet took the brunt of the impact," he said.

It sounds like a very strange and disconcerting accident - it does sound as if something went wrong with the car rather than being a driver error, which must be little comfort for Glock and Pic. Although the indication so far is that the impact took place at a relatively low speed, given that her head seems to have struck the tailgate of the truck with some force I am nevertheless quite concerned and, like many others here, hope that the reports in the media of serious injuries prove to be exaggerated.
[EDIT] Racecar Engineering are also reporting on this story, and are suggesting that Villota may have been caught out by the anti-stall system on the car, which automatically opens the throttle to 50% if first gear is engaged and travelling very slowly, as you might be if returning to the garage after systems checks.

This sounds very much like the cars anti stall system engaged at the end of the run. Inexperienced drivers having their first runs in a F1 car can be caught out by this. As they slow to stop the car or make a low speed turn (for example into a garage) they lift off the throttle and let the revs drop. The ECU senses this and sets throttle to around 50% with the car still in first gear resulting in a sudden acceleration such as the one described.

http://www.racecar-engineering.com/news ... ing-crash/

JJMonty · Post by **JJMonty** » 03 Jul 2012, 11:10

They are suggesting that she went into the back of the track doing 30-40 mph..... At such a "low speed" (as they describe it), then surely there is something wrong with the helmet and crash protection?

I had a nasty crash about 3 1/2 years ago whilst racing, went underneath a wall doing 75mph due to brake failure, however my helmet stayed in one piece but I ended up with concusion and damage to my nerves in my neck - all of which took about 7 months to recover from.

Anyways my point, a slower speed crash in an F1 car with much better safety standards than karting offers shouldn't have lead to an injury this severe!

Either people are lying about the speed of the impact, or the journalists are exagerating.

Or am I missing something here?

TomWazzleshaw · Post by **TomWazzleshaw** » 03 Jul 2012, 11:14

JJMonty wrote:They are suggesting that she went into the back of the track doing 30-40 mph..... At such a "low speed" (as they describe it), then surely there is something wrong with the helmet and crash protection?

I had a nasty crash about 3 1/2 years ago whilst racing, went underneath a wall doing 75mph due to brake failure, however my helmet stayed in one piece but I ended up with concusion and damage to my nerves in my neck - all of which took about 7 months to recover from.

Anyways my point, a slower speed crash in an F1 car with much better safety standards than karting offers shouldn't have lead to an injury this severe! Either people are lying about the speed of the impact, or the journalists are exagerating.

Or am I missing something here?

Obviously, I have no idea what the wall you hit was made out of but lorry bumpers tend to be very, VERY solidly built.

AndreaModa · Post by **AndreaModa** » 03 Jul 2012, 11:16

I suspect there's a slight element of exaggeration in all of this, there always is when the media gets hold of a news story, but from the description of the incident, and what Mario raises with the Racecar Engineering article, which seems highly likely, it is still a very unpleasant incident.

And on top of everything it means she'll almost certainly not make it to the Marussia factory tour on Thursday which is a bugger!

JJMonty · Post by **JJMonty** » 03 Jul 2012, 11:19

Wizzie wrote:
JJMonty wrote:They are suggesting that she went into the back of the track doing 30-40 mph..... At such a "low speed" (as they describe it), then surely there is something wrong with the helmet and crash protection?

I had a nasty crash about 3 1/2 years ago whilst racing, went underneath a wall doing 75mph due to brake failure, however my helmet stayed in one piece but I ended up with concusion and damage to my nerves in my neck - all of which took about 7 months to recover from.

Anyways my point, a slower speed crash in an F1 car with much better safety standards than karting offers shouldn't have lead to an injury this severe! Either people are lying about the speed of the impact, or the journalists are exagerating.

Or am I missing something here?

Obviously, I have no idea what the wall you hit was made out of but lorry bumpers tend to be very, VERY solidly built.

Tyre wall followed by an armco type barrier. Agreed, not as hard as a lorry bumper... but still hard to shift! I'm lucky that I didn't end up with worse injuries to be fair. I can't remember a thing of the accident but people said I just ploughed through the wall and went under it. I'm guessing something similar to Cevert's crash.

madmark1974 · Post by **madmark1974** » 03 Jul 2012, 11:22

Wizzie wrote:
JJMonty wrote:They are suggesting that she went into the back of the track doing 30-40 mph..... At such a "low speed" (as they describe it), then surely there is something wrong with the helmet and crash protection?

I had a nasty crash about 3 1/2 years ago whilst racing, went underneath a wall doing 75mph due to brake failure, however my helmet stayed in one piece but I ended up with concusion and damage to my nerves in my neck - all of which took about 7 months to recover from.

Anyways my point, a slower speed crash in an F1 car with much better safety standards than karting offers shouldn't have lead to an injury this severe! Either people are lying about the speed of the impact, or the journalists are exagerating.

Or am I missing something here?

Obviously, I have no idea what the wall you hit was made out of but lorry bumpers tend to be very, VERY solidly built.

From what I can tell, she slid into the side of the loading ramp on the back of the lorry, which may have meant the car slid under it a bit, but her head clipped the ramp, thereby acting as a brake.

Also, if she was very unlucky, the visor may have taken the impact rather than the 'meat' of the helmet ...

Report now says head and facial injuries, but that she is stable BTW.

AndreaModa · Post by **AndreaModa** » 03 Jul 2012, 11:24

Here's a good photo just after it happened it seems:

http://twitpic.com/a3duh9/full

You can see the car underneath the ramp on the right hand side of the photo. Clearly the end of the ramp has smashed her in the head, hopefully the helmet has done a good-enough job.

TomWazzleshaw · Post by **TomWazzleshaw** » 03 Jul 2012, 11:32

AndreaModa wrote:Here's a good photo just after it happened it seems:

http://twitpic.com/a3duh9/full

You can see the car underneath the ramp on the right hand side of the photo. Clearly the end of the ramp has smashed her in the head, hopefully the helmet has done a good-enough job.

Jikes. If that's not bad luck, I don't know what is.

Paul Hayes · Post by **Paul Hayes** » 03 Jul 2012, 11:43

My colleagues at BBC Radio Cambridgeshire have tweeted a photo of the scene, nothing insensitive but gives you some idea of the geography of the crash:

http://twitpic.com/a3duh9

EDIT: Sorry, didn't spot this had been posted already.

AndreaModa · Post by **AndreaModa** » 03 Jul 2012, 12:05

http://audioboo.fm/boos/871249

A description of the incident from BBC Radio Cambridgeshire's Chris Mann, including a clip of the incident actually happening (don't worry, nothing horrible, just the engine noise, a bang and then shouting).

dr-baker · Post by **dr-baker** » 03 Jul 2012, 12:22

What I have been wondering all along is why their lorry was ever in a position where it could ever have been hit by the F1 car in the first place. I always imagined that they would have been parked far to the side of the airstrip being used, and not parked at the end of the strip where the car was running. Here's hoping that she makes a full recovery.

Shizuka · Post by **Shizuka** » 03 Jul 2012, 12:25

AndreaModa wrote:BBC Radio Cambridgeshire's Chris Mann

It has to be a coincidence that the name is related to dr-baker, right?

Anyway, I just saw that picture, and to me it really is a heavy incident. I really hope she will get out of this in one piece. Hoping for the best!

Also, I wonder if the team is actually going to get closer to Caterham with the upgrades, however I highly doubt it. Slowly and steadily Kovalainen starts to score Q2 results on merit.

madmark1974 · Post by **madmark1974** » 03 Jul 2012, 13:39

The BBC story has now been updated with a link to the local news TV story - probably for UK only ...

Here's the link again :http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cambridgeshire-18685789

Post by **tommykl** » 03 Jul 2012, 13:51

madmark1974 wrote:The BBC story has now been updated with a link to the local news TV story - probably for UK only ...

Here's the link again :http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cambridgeshire-18685789

It's not UK-only, Iwas able to see it and hear the reporter call her 'Marussia de Villota'

AndreaModa · Post by **AndreaModa** » 03 Jul 2012, 14:15

tommykl wrote:
madmark1974 wrote:The BBC story has now been updated with a link to the local news TV story - probably for UK only ...

Here's the link again :http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cambridgeshire-18685789

It's not UK-only, Iwas able to see it and hear the reporter call her 'Marussia de Villota'

It's okay, retarded news reporters are a common occurrence, the one on 5 Live kept saying Maria de Villota with the 'o' pronounced as in 'open' instead of as in 'lot' :roll:

AdrianSutil · Post by **AdrianSutil** » 03 Jul 2012, 14:21

That is a very nasty crash looking at the pic. Fingers crossed she's ok.

Post by **mario** » 03 Jul 2012, 14:51

AdrianSutil wrote:That is a very nasty crash looking at the pic. Fingers crossed she's ok.

The latest news coming through is a bit more encouraging - the team have confirmed that de Villota is in a stable condition, is conscious and has been able to briefly speak to her parents to let them know she is OK, although they are currently waiting to hear more from the medical teams before they make any further announcements.

Phoenix · Post by **Phoenix** » 03 Jul 2012, 14:54

This on the same day Sergio Pininfarina, designer of the Ferrari Testarossa, has died. This is definitely not a good day for motor enthusiasts. Let's hope María will recover successfully and swiftly from this.

AdrianSutil · Post by **AdrianSutil** » 03 Jul 2012, 14:55

mario wrote:
AdrianSutil wrote:That is a very nasty crash looking at the pic. Fingers crossed she's ok.

The latest news coming through is a bit more encouraging - the team have confirmed that de Villota is in a stable condition, is conscious and has been able to briefly speak to her parents to let them know she is OK, although they are currently waiting to hear more from the medical teams before they make any further announcements.

Great news then. No driver deserves to be taken to hospital, no matter how brilliant/rejectful they are.

Any more news, Mario or anyone else, on what actually caused it? I'm hearing she simply lost it, stuck throttle and anti-stall system on various websites.

AndreaModa · Post by **AndreaModa** » 03 Jul 2012, 15:06

AdrianSutil wrote:
mario wrote:
AdrianSutil wrote:That is a very nasty crash looking at the pic. Fingers crossed she's ok.

The latest news coming through is a bit more encouraging - the team have confirmed that de Villota is in a stable condition, is conscious and has been able to briefly speak to her parents to let them know she is OK, although they are currently waiting to hear more from the medical teams before they make any further announcements.

Great news then. No driver deserves to be taken to hospital, no matter how brilliant/rejectful they are.

Any more news, Mario or anyone else, on what actually caused it? I'm hearing she simply lost it, stuck throttle and anti-stall system on various websites.

Unlikely to be stuck throttle it seems, the engineers came up to the car as she came in, so she must have slowed the car sufficiently for them to approach it safely. I'm subscribing to what Racecar Engineering speculated, about the anti-stall, but we won't know for a while yet officially I suspect.

karsten · Post by **karsten** » 03 Jul 2012, 15:07

i don't underestand the dynamic of it by the pictures, it makes no sense to me.

Post by **Londoner** » 03 Jul 2012, 15:25

Looks like a quite a nasty crash. I hope she's alright.

Post by **mario** » 03 Jul 2012, 15:55

AdrianSutil wrote:
mario wrote:
AdrianSutil wrote:That is a very nasty crash looking at the pic. Fingers crossed she's ok.

The latest news coming through is a bit more encouraging - the team have confirmed that de Villota is in a stable condition, is conscious and has been able to briefly speak to her parents to let them know she is OK, although they are currently waiting to hear more from the medical teams before they make any further announcements.

Great news then. No driver deserves to be taken to hospital, no matter how brilliant/rejectful they are.

Any more news, Mario or anyone else, on what actually caused it? I'm hearing she simply lost it, stuck throttle and anti-stall system on various websites.

Beyond what has already been said, no, I am afraid that I do not have much more of an idea as to the causes of this accident - at the moment, the team are, understandably, more concerned about de Villota, whilst the Cambridgeshire Police have only just started their crash investigation. For now, I guess that all we can do is wait and see what they can find from going through all the data and witness reports, which may be a lengthy process.

CoopsII · Post by **CoopsII** » 03 Jul 2012, 16:28

It sounds very nasty but it couldve been worse, it sounds like the driver is out of danger at least.

shinji · Post by **shinji** » 03 Jul 2012, 18:35

I suppose if one is to find a positive in this, it's that safety is only compromised in bizarre, fluky circumstances.

pasta_maldonado · Post by **pasta_maldonado** » 03 Jul 2012, 18:45

That looked extremely nasty

At that angle, I hope the helmet visor wasn't punctured by the truck.

As dr-baker pointed out, why was the truck any where near the testing area? I know it was just a straight line test but that was asking for trouble. And unfortunately, trouble happened.

stupot94 · Post by **stupot94** » 03 Jul 2012, 20:21

Very strange and sad incident. However I guess there will be more overkill about cockpit protection now. F1 has always had open cockpits. And I hope it will always do.

Post by **DemocalypseNow** » 03 Jul 2012, 22:05

pasta_maldonado wrote:That looked extremely nasty At that angle, I hope the helmet visor wasn't punctured by the truck.

As dr-baker pointed out, why was the truck any where near the testing area? I know it was just a straight line test but that was asking for trouble. And unfortunately, trouble happened.

You could see from the photos that it wasn't. The problem is she shouldn't have been driving into the service area, instead her car should have been wheeled in like in a normal F1 weekend, not driven in like it is a WRC car. The engine should have been switched off before it got near the lorry.

Sunshine_Baby_[IT] · Post by **Sunshine_Baby_[IT]** » 03 Jul 2012, 22:34

According to what I read on twitter, at present Maria De Villota is having a surgery operation because of her skull injury.

eichy · Post by **eichy** » 03 Jul 2012, 22:57

I read that she does indeed have a fractured skull.

Aerond · Post by **Aerond** » 03 Jul 2012, 23:19

Carlos de Gracia (president of Spanish Automobile Federation), who´s close friend of the family, just said on the radio that she´s gone to the operating room this evening due to a skull fractured and she´s still under surgery.

AdrianSutil · Post by **AdrianSutil** » 04 Jul 2012, 00:50

I wish my best, For all it will do. Hope she makes a full recovery.

RonDenisDeletraz · Post by **RonDenisDeletraz** » 04 Jul 2012, 00:53

I really hope she recovers.

Monstrobolaxa · Post by **Monstrobolaxa** » 04 Jul 2012, 06:12

Find the anti-stall story hard to swallow.
The cars I've worked with just disengage the clutch when anti-stall kicks in.

So if you're driving into the pits for a pit-stop as you slow down and forget to pull the clutch the throttle opens to 50%? So does it mean the front jack is runned over?

If they spin what's the need of 50% throttle? The engine may still stall this way.

Post by **mario** » 04 Jul 2012, 08:20

Monstrobolaxa wrote:Find the anti-stall story hard to swallow.
The cars I've worked with just disengage the clutch when anti-stall kicks in.

So if you're driving into the pits for a pit-stop as you slow down and forget to pull the clutch the throttle opens to 50%? So does it mean the front jack is runned over?

If they spin what's the need of 50% throttle? The engine may still stay this way.

On review, it does seem that your doubts about some sort of malfunction with the anti-stall system are well founded - Racecar Engineering have retracted that earlier comment, which suggests that they were mistaken too.

S951 · Post by **S951** » 04 Jul 2012, 15:18

I am so seriously upset for Maria I know she was bought in for promo and tests but no one deserves this utterly devastated for her

@ianparkesf1: Marussia have confirmed Maria De Villota has sadly lost her right eye as a result of yesterday's accident.

fjackdaw · Post by **fjackdaw** » 04 Jul 2012, 15:23

She has lost her right eye. One of the worst injuries a person, let alone a professional racing driver, can suffer.

LellaLombardi · Post by **LellaLombardi** » 04 Jul 2012, 15:28

I've just seen this too, and that, sadly is a career ending injury in motorsport. Devastated for her.