Young driver test to move to Silverstone?

Captain Hammer · Post by **Captain Hammer** » 27 Jun 2012, 03:17

JeremyMcClean wrote:Ouch, only three teams??? I'd take on the opportunity if only to get another mid-season test, but it looks as if it's going to be called off... I mean, how does one run a test with only 6-9 cars??? (assuming every team runs three drivers in the test)

Teams tend to run one car at a time. So it will be more like three cars on-track.

TomWazzleshaw · Post by **TomWazzleshaw** » 27 Jun 2012, 03:20

Captain Hammer wrote:
JeremyMcClean wrote:Ouch, only three teams??? I'd take on the opportunity if only to get another mid-season test, but it looks as if it's going to be called off... I mean, how does one run a test with only 6-9 cars??? (assuming every team runs three drivers in the test)

Teams tend to run one car at a time. So it will be more like three cars on-track.

Aren't they only allowed to run one car at a time anyway?

dr-baker · Post by **dr-baker** » 10 Jul 2012, 17:07

So it looks like this test is going ahead after all. Who's going? What time does it start? Do tickets have to be bought? Can they be bought on the gate?

Post by **mario** » 10 Jul 2012, 18:21

Wizzie wrote:
Captain Hammer wrote:
JeremyMcClean wrote:Ouch, only three teams??? I'd take on the opportunity if only to get another mid-season test, but it looks as if it's going to be called off... I mean, how does one run a test with only 6-9 cars??? (assuming every team runs three drivers in the test)

Teams tend to run one car at a time. So it will be more like three cars on-track.

Aren't they only allowed to run one car at a time anyway?

That is correct - the teams are only allowed to use one car during the official test sessions (i.e. the pre season, in season and Young Driver tests), as part of the current cost cutting measures.

AdrianSutil · Post by **AdrianSutil** » 11 Jul 2012, 10:28

dr-baker wrote:So it looks like this test is going ahead after all. Who's going? What time does it start? Do tickets have to be bought? Can they be bought on the gate?

Sure I've mentioned it already, but I won't be going now. I've just lost my job and there's no way I can afford the travelling costs

The Mobile Chicane · Post by **The Mobile Chicane** » 11 Jul 2012, 13:45

dr-baker wrote:So it looks like this test is going ahead after all. Who's going? What time does it start? Do tickets have to be bought? Can they be bought on the gate?

Just checked the Silverstone website and it looks like the circuit is closed to the public for the duration of the test. There's not even any mention of the test even taking place. unfortunately we won't be able to get in.

dr-baker · Post by **dr-baker** » 11 Jul 2012, 14:07

The Mobile Chicane wrote:
dr-baker wrote:So it looks like this test is going ahead after all. Who's going? What time does it start? Do tickets have to be bought? Can they be bought on the gate?

Just checked the Silverstone website and it looks like the circuit is closed to the public for the duration of the test. There's not even any mention of the test even taking place. unfortunately we won't be able to get in.

So you don't think it's just unadvertised and not worth trying at all then? :evil:

dinizintheoven · Post by **dinizintheoven** » 11 Jul 2012, 15:03

Baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah!

Still, what say you all that we plan for a trip to Barcelona, Valencia or wherever the 2013 pre-season tests will be? I'm sure Easyjet will have some cracking deals at that time of year.

dr-baker · Post by **dr-baker** » 11 Jul 2012, 17:01

dinizintheoven wrote:Baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah!

Still, what say you all that we plan for a trip to Barcelona, Valencia or wherever the 2013 pre-season tests will be? I'm sure Easyjet will have some cracking deals at that time of year.

If it coincides with uni holidays, I'll be up for it. Even to the point of a road trip perhaps (or maybe a ferry to Bilbao or Sandanter).

dinizintheoven · Post by **dinizintheoven** » 11 Jul 2012, 18:20

Although a ferry to anywhere in Spain from here will be wallet-frazzlingly expensive. Even so, I have done a road trip to Barcelona before...

AndreaModa · Post by **AndreaModa** » 11 Jul 2012, 21:17

Is it tomorrow and friday, or next week? I might have been able to squeeze a quick visit down there if it had been next week as I have the Thursday off work for a funeral, so would be free for the afternoon. I'd probably just pop up there and poke around to see if I could sneak in anyway, as I'm close it's no big deal to make the trip up there.

AdrianSutil wrote:
dr-baker wrote:So it looks like this test is going ahead after all. Who's going? What time does it start? Do tickets have to be bought? Can they be bought on the gate?

Sure I've mentioned it already, but I won't be going now. I've just lost my job and there's no way I can afford the travelling costs

Ah man that's piss poor, is that from Eurotunnel then? Really feel for you, it's bloody hard out there at the moment, I hope you find something new soon!

AdrianSutil · Post by **AdrianSutil** » 12 Jul 2012, 00:02

Ah man that's piss poor, is that from Eurotunnel then? Really feel for you, it's bloody hard out there at the moment, I hope you find something new soon!

Yeah. Been out for a week now. Got monthly bills of 750 to pay too :roll:

it really is difficult, but I've found a few similar-paid jobs so just hoping to hear back soon..

Salamander · Post by **Salamander** » 12 Jul 2012, 00:44

AdrianSutil wrote:
Ah man that's piss poor, is that from Eurotunnel then? Really feel for you, it's bloody hard out there at the moment, I hope you find something new soon!

Yeah. Been out for a week now. Got monthly bills of 750 to pay too it really is difficult, but I've found a few similar-paid jobs so just hoping to hear back soon..

Shame to hear that, hope you find a new job soon.

RonDenisDeletraz · Post by **RonDenisDeletraz** » 12 Jul 2012, 00:59

AdrianSutil wrote:
Ah man that's piss poor, is that from Eurotunnel then? Really feel for you, it's bloody hard out there at the moment, I hope you find something new soon!

Yeah. Been out for a week now. Got monthly bills of 750 to pay too it really is difficult, but I've found a few similar-paid jobs so just hoping to hear back soon..

I hope you get a job soon.

pasta_maldonado · Post by **pasta_maldonado** » 12 Jul 2012, 06:35

AdrianSutil wrote:
Ah man that's piss poor, is that from Eurotunnel then? Really feel for you, it's bloody hard out there at the moment, I hope you find something new soon!

Yeah. Been out for a week now. Got monthly bills of 750 to pay too it really is difficult, but I've found a few similar-paid jobs so just hoping to hear back soon..

It's bloddy recession. I really hope you find a new job soon

AdrianSutil · Post by **AdrianSutil** » 12 Jul 2012, 11:00

Thanks guys

appreciated.

dr-baker · Post by **dr-baker** » 13 Jul 2012, 14:07

dinizintheoven wrote:Although a ferry to anywhere in Spain from here will be wallet-frazzlingly expensive. Even so, I have done a road trip to Barcelona before...

And I have done a road trip to south-eastern Italy just last September. A road trip through the Pyrannes is tempting... And the cost of the ferry may offset the cost of the extra fuel and overnight stops but it would not make up for missing a trip through a mountain range. And the chance to drive round Pau en route...

tristan1117 · Post by **tristan1117** » 13 Jul 2012, 17:43

Unsurprisingly, Bottas topped both testing sessions for Williams.

On the bright side, it looks like Rio Haryanto and Max Chilton are qualified to receive a superlicense! There was also a Ma-Qing Hua appearance at HRT on Day 1.

AndreaModa · Post by **AndreaModa** » 13 Jul 2012, 17:56

tristan1117 wrote:Unsurprisingly, Bottas topped both testing sessions for Williams.

On the bright side, it looks like Rio Haryanto and Max Chilton are qualified to receive a superlicense! There was also a Ma-Qing Hua appearance at HRT on Day 1.

And from the reports, it seems Marussia carried out a fair bit of setup work on the car over the two days, running some new stuff and testing bits and bobs out which is good news. Obviously no surprise that Bottas had the top time easily, but Chilton wasn't far away from him today - less than a second.

I think we can safely assume that Bottas will be driving a Williams next season, but which driver will he replace?

Klon · Post by **Klon** » 13 Jul 2012, 18:34

AndreaModa wrote:I think we can safely assume that Bottas will be driving a Williams next season, but which driver will he replace?

Senna. There is not even going to be a discussion about that, Bottas will replace Senna.

AndreaModa · Post by **AndreaModa** » 13 Jul 2012, 19:05

Klon wrote:
AndreaModa wrote:I think we can safely assume that Bottas will be driving a Williams next season, but which driver will he replace?

Senna. There is not even going to be a discussion about that, Bottas will replace Senna.

Yeah, to be honest I agree with you, but I'm thinking that if Maldonado continues to blow it every race then Frank Williams will start getting pretty pissed off, if he isn't already. It's clear that Pastor is a faster driver, but his inconsistency and wild driving is hurting him big time, to the point where it may even endanger his position on the team, PDVSA money or not.

Klon · Post by **Klon** » 13 Jul 2012, 19:11

AndreaModa wrote:Yeah, to be honest I agree with you, but I'm thinking that if Maldonado continues to blow it every race then Frank Williams will start getting pretty pissed off, if he isn't already. It's clear that Pastor is a faster driver, but his inconsistency and wild driving is hurting him big time, to the point where it may even endanger his position on the team, PDVSA money or not.

The thing is, for talent they will have Bottas (at least they see in him a big talent - whether he actually has it is another story) so it is fairly obvious that the second seat will be decided by cashflow alone and Maldonado just has more of that than Senna does. In the decision Senna vs. Maldonado it's all about the money.

Salamander · Post by **Salamander** » 13 Jul 2012, 20:13

Klon wrote:
AndreaModa wrote:Yeah, to be honest I agree with you, but I'm thinking that if Maldonado continues to blow it every race then Frank Williams will start getting pretty pissed off, if he isn't already. It's clear that Pastor is a faster driver, but his inconsistency and wild driving is hurting him big time, to the point where it may even endanger his position on the team, PDVSA money or not.

The thing is, for talent they will have Bottas (at least they see in him a big talent - whether he actually has it is another story) so it is fairly obvious that the second seat will be decided by cashflow alone and Maldonado just has more of that than Senna does. In the decision Senna vs. Maldonado it's all about the money.

Even on talent, you'd take Maldonado over Senna. Maldonado does crash way too often, but Senna is just too slow. And it's harder to make a driver go faster than it is to get them to be more consistent.

Post by **mario** » 13 Jul 2012, 20:42

Klon wrote:
AndreaModa wrote:Yeah, to be honest I agree with you, but I'm thinking that if Maldonado continues to blow it every race then Frank Williams will start getting pretty pissed off, if he isn't already. It's clear that Pastor is a faster driver, but his inconsistency and wild driving is hurting him big time, to the point where it may even endanger his position on the team, PDVSA money or not.

The thing is, for talent they will have Bottas (at least they see in him a big talent - whether he actually has it is another story) so it is fairly obvious that the second seat will be decided by cashflow alone and Maldonado just has more of that than Senna does. In the decision Senna vs. Maldonado it's all about the money.

Bruno's reported financial backing is not exactly insubstantial - Maldonado is bringing in around £30 million a year, which is more than Bruno can come up with, but there have been rumours that Bruno is bringing in around $16 million a year, which is basically making up for the money that Williams lost out on after AT&T chose not to renew their contract. The question for Williams, therefore, is going to be whether Bottas's talent is worth $16 million, because that is what they will potentially miss out on if Bruno is thrown out of the team.

Benetton · Post by **Benetton** » 13 Jul 2012, 21:17

mario wrote:
Klon wrote:
AndreaModa wrote:Yeah, to be honest I agree with you, but I'm thinking that if Maldonado continues to blow it every race then Frank Williams will start getting pretty pissed off, if he isn't already. It's clear that Pastor is a faster driver, but his inconsistency and wild driving is hurting him big time, to the point where it may even endanger his position on the team, PDVSA money or not.

The thing is, for talent they will have Bottas (at least they see in him a big talent - whether he actually has it is another story) so it is fairly obvious that the second seat will be decided by cashflow alone and Maldonado just has more of that than Senna does. In the decision Senna vs. Maldonado it's all about the money.

Bruno's reported financial backing is not exactly insubstantial - Maldonado is bringing in around £30 million a year, which is more than Bruno can come up with, but there have been rumours that Bruno is bringing in around $16 million a year, which is basically making up for the money that Williams lost out on after AT&T chose not to renew their contract. The question for Williams, therefore, is going to be whether Bottas's talent is worth $16 million, because that is what they will potentially miss out on if Bruno is thrown out of the team.

It depends if Williams can find any sponsors. If they find some they can easily replace Bruno with Bottas from a financial perspective. Bottas should be given a seat alongside Maldonado in 2013 since he is way more of an prospect than Senna is.

Post by **mario** » 13 Jul 2012, 21:44

Benetton wrote:It depends if Williams can find any sponsors. If they find some they can easily replace Bruno with Bottas from a financial perspective. Bottas should be given a seat alongside Maldonado in 2013 since he is way more of an prospect than Senna is.

They might have a better chance of picking up more sponsors thanks to Maldonado's victory earlier this season, given that would have raised the profile of the team from its recent torpid state. Then again, Maldonado's recent run ins with other drivers might, though the negative headlines he has generated, act as a slight deterrent too, so it cuts both ways.

I do think that Williams are flirting with the idea of getting Bottas to replace a driver - Bottas has been given a lot of seat time this year (six practise sessions so far, not to mention doing 290 laps of the Silverstone circuit in the Young Driver test), which is something that you would only do if you were expecting to call him into action fairly soon. The biggest irony is the fact that Bottas's practise sessions are coming entirely at Bruno's expense - you have to wonder whether Williams are making the problem worse by regularly cutting Bruno's practise time short, which means that he is often having to play catch up with his set up work.

RonDenisDeletraz · Post by **RonDenisDeletraz** » 14 Jul 2012, 01:54

Bottas is overrated, a lot of people are saying he is the next big thing but he wasn't that much faster than a Marussia. Driven by someone who was considerably less experienced than him.

Salamander · Post by **Salamander** » 14 Jul 2012, 01:57

eurobrun wrote:Bottas is overrated, a lot of people are saying he is the next big thing but he wasn't that much faster than a Marussia. Driven by someone who was considerably less experienced than him.

I don't think anybody has said Bottas is the next big thing. But he is the heir apparent at Williams if they decide to drop either Maldonado or Senna (most likely the latter), that much is certain.

RonDenisDeletraz · Post by **RonDenisDeletraz** » 14 Jul 2012, 02:06

BlindCaveSalamander wrote:
eurobrun wrote:Bottas is overrated, a lot of people are saying he is the next big thing but he wasn't that much faster than a Marussia. Driven by someone who was considerably less experienced than him.

I don't think anybody has said Bottas is the next big thing. But he is the heir apparent at Williams if they decide to drop either Maldonado or Senna (most likely the latter), that much is certain.

I think it would be a mistake by Williams to replace either driver with Bottas. They would be losing a large amount of money for very little (if any) improvement in results. If Willians want to replace either driver with someone who isn't a pay driver then they need to give Jamie Alguersuari a call.

Salamander · Post by **Salamander** » 14 Jul 2012, 02:23

eurobrun wrote:
BlindCaveSalamander wrote:
eurobrun wrote:Bottas is overrated, a lot of people are saying he is the next big thing but he wasn't that much faster than a Marussia. Driven by someone who was considerably less experienced than him.

I don't think anybody has said Bottas is the next big thing. But he is the heir apparent at Williams if they decide to drop either Maldonado or Senna (most likely the latter), that much is certain.

I think it would be a mistake by Williams to replace either driver with Bottas. They would be losing a large amount of money for very little (if any) improvement in results. If Willians want to replace either driver with someone who isn't a pay driver then they need to give Jamie Alguersuari a call.

I agree, but they've been giving Bottas a ton of track time, it's fairly obvious they intend to stick him in a race seat soon. Looking at his lower formulae results, I have to say I'm not entirely convinced he's worth it really. Alguersuari really does seem the better bet, though - he has knowledge of the Pirelli tyres, already comes with plenty of F1 experience, is fairly quick and very good at bringing the car home, as well as being the same age as Bottas to boot.

Captain Hammer · Post by **Captain Hammer** » 14 Jul 2012, 03:26

eurobrun wrote:Bottas is overrated, a lot of people are saying he is the next big thing but he wasn't that much faster than a Marussia.

The second day of testing took place at the International Circuit - most of which is made up of long straights. Sure, the Marussia lacks downforce compared to the Williams, but you only really need downforce in the corners, and the International Circuit cuts out the most aero-dependent corners on the circuit.

girry · Post by **girry** » 14 Jul 2012, 06:59

Yes, he was less than a second faster .... on a 50-second circuit. On a normal 1.40 track that would have been almost two.

Furthermore, making any assumptions about driver's skills based on testing/practise sessions isn't really the best idea. Teams have differing priorities to each other which you have seen in the Abu Dhabi test quite a few times.. they all don't run low fuel quali stints you know.

Bottas is quite clearly being prepared for the seat next season seeing from the amount of track time he is getting, and based on his lower formulae history isn't completely useless as a driver either - he did, by a margin, take the title from some quite respectable drivers in GP3 including Calado, Melker, Quaife-Hobbs and Haryanto - plus, Frank seemingly isn't keen of having two 'pay drivers' in his cars. I do agree he might not be the next big thing, but next, erm, say .. Heidfeld - quite possibly.

Maldo is going nowhere from Williams because of his backing and the sheer speed he has shown so far during the season, therefore it's evident who is going out - even if I think Bruno is mostly underrated, personally I would not replace him by Bottas if I were Frank. Senna might have been somewhat useless so far but he was mostly useless against Chandhok and Petrov too .. but in the few occasions when he wasn't in the shadows, he was darn fast. Would not be surprised if he still managed come up with a podium or two this season. And he is bringing the money.

Williams has got a good lineup and bringing another driver in would be a waste imho.

Captain Hammer · Post by **Captain Hammer** » 14 Jul 2012, 07:23

giraurd wrote:but in the few occasions when he wasn't in the shadows, he was darn fast

The problem is that those occasions have been few and far between.

As you say, Senna was useless against Chandhok, and useless against Petrov. Now he's proving to be useless against Maldonado. And neither Chandhok, Petrov or Maldonado is highly-rated in the paddock. Senna never should have gotten a drive in 2012, and all he has been doing is proving why he shouldn't have been signed in the first place.

girry · Post by **girry** » 14 Jul 2012, 07:45

Yeah they have been rare, but we know he has the potential to do good with that Williams. Even if it is just two times a season - I personally believe one flash on the podium would do more good for Williams than eleven P7's Alguersuari would bring.

A bit like a milder version of Fisichella. 'Best of the world once in two seasons, rest of the time fades into obscurity..'

RonDenisDeletraz · Post by **RonDenisDeletraz** » 14 Jul 2012, 07:47

Captain Hammer wrote:
giraurd wrote:but in the few occasions when he wasn't in the shadows, he was darn fast

The problem is that those occasions have been few and far between.

As you say, Senna was useless against Chandhok, and useless against Petrov. Now he's proving to be useless against Maldonado. And neither Chandhok, Petrov or Maldonado is highly-rated in the paddock. Senna never should have gotten a drive in 2012, and all he has been doing is proving why he shouldn't have been signed in the first place.

I don't think Senna did that badly in 2011 considering the circumstances. And in the last couple of races this year he has been getting consistent minor points, while this season Maldonado has either been awesome or crap. (Or sometimes both at the same time.)

TomWazzleshaw · Post by **TomWazzleshaw** » 14 Jul 2012, 08:33

giraurd wrote:Yeah they have been rare, but we know he has the potential to do good with that Williams. Even if it is just two times a season - I personally believe one flash on the podium would do more good for Williams than eleven P7's Alguersuari would bring.

11 finishes in 7th = 66 points. Two podiums = 50 points at most. The WCC is incredibly important to a midfield team with all the prize money involved and in a year like this, every point matters. Therefore your argument is invalid :lol:

giraurd wrote:Williams has got a good lineup and bringing another driver in would be a waste imho.

Define 'good'. They've got the same problem as Toro Rosso have right now. If they combined their two drivers together (Maldonado's pace with Senna's consistency), they'd have one really good driver. Instead they've got one whose far too temperamental and crash happy to be useful 90% of the time and the other's so damn slow on Saturday that he's too far behind the eight ball to maximise the car's potential. As I said a few weeks ago, they should be well and clearly ahead of Sauber in the championship right now. Instead, they're barely ahead of the slower but far more consistent Force Indias.

TomWazzleshaw · Post by **TomWazzleshaw** » 14 Jul 2012, 08:35

eurobrun wrote:I don't think Senna did that badly in 2011 considering the circumstances.

I agree. I don't think Heidfeld would have done any better, especially considering how quickly the car fell off the pace towards the end of the year.

Regardless, their year was basically shot by February with Bobby K's accident but Petrov did step up admirably to the task at hand. But I digress.

Captain Hammer · Post by **Captain Hammer** » 14 Jul 2012, 08:52

So we'll just overlook the drive-through penalites for avoidable accidents, shall we? And while we're at it, let's forget about the way Senna only beat Petrov once in the six races they both finished - and that that once was at Singapore, which was a nightmare for the team. In fact, the way Senna finished, on average, four places behind Petrov isn't really representative of anything, either.

TomWazzleshaw · Post by **TomWazzleshaw** » 14 Jul 2012, 09:38

Captain Hammer wrote:So we'll just overlook the drive-through penalites for avoidable accidents, shall we? And while we're at it, let's forget about the way Senna only beat Petrov once in the six races they both finished - and that that once was at Singapore, which was a nightmare for the team. In fact, the way Senna finished, on average, four places behind Petrov isn't really representative of anything, either.

Sad thing is I genuinely don't remember any of that from last year. Then again, the rest of the known universe forgot as well :lol:

girry · Post by **girry** » 14 Jul 2012, 09:43

I know that WDC wise some algy-category driver would be better. But then again, my point is - publicity wise for example Maldos win and Hulks pole are what Williams has needed much more than the consistent points making. Must have been big boosts to the team, too. I claim that's more important for them than the proze money for grey finishes.

Senna and Maldo are good for Williams who need drivers like them. They probably wouldn't be a good for say, Mercedes or Ferrari because their priorities are quite different.

Cold hard fact is, no 'casual' f1 fan really cares what happens below top 5 at all. I do care, you all do, but public doesn't - that's why I say they're a good lineup.