2012 Italian Grand Prix Discussion Thread

Shadaza · Post by **Shadaza** » 09 Sep 2012, 13:06

Perez 2.8 seconds faster then Massa last lap, no shite "pick up the pace."

tristan1117 · Post by **tristan1117** » 09 Sep 2012, 13:08

Now Vettel has a problem! Perez takes third!

QuickYoda41 · Post by **QuickYoda41** » 09 Sep 2012, 13:09

I wonder again what did Sauber lose in that first corner a week ago...

Pointrox · Post by **Pointrox** » 09 Sep 2012, 13:12

Come on Checo - go for it

EDIT: YES!

QuickYoda41 · Post by **QuickYoda41** » 09 Sep 2012, 13:13

Perez 2nd, absolutely amazing drive

tristan1117 · Post by **tristan1117** » 09 Sep 2012, 13:13

Beautiful pass by Perez! Now go for Hamilton

!

The Mobile Chicane · Post by **The Mobile Chicane** » 09 Sep 2012, 13:13

Dear Lewis, please get a move on. Perez is coming...

QuickYoda41 · Post by **QuickYoda41** » 09 Sep 2012, 13:14

Hungarian commentators already talking about Hamilton vs. Perez, never liked them this much

Shizuka · Post by **Shizuka** » 09 Sep 2012, 13:14

QuickYoda41 wrote:Hungarian commentators already talking about Hamilton vs. Perez, never liked them this much

I've got fed up with them and their stupid ads, screw M1, I'm going with Sky...

tristan1117 · Post by **tristan1117** » 09 Sep 2012, 13:15

Out goes Vettel! We knew that was going to happen, but.

GwilymJJames · Post by **GwilymJJames** » 09 Sep 2012, 13:16

Oh nooo, disaster for the world championship.

Gerudo Dragon · Post by **Gerudo Dragon** » 09 Sep 2012, 13:16

YES Vettel is out woohoo!!!!!!!!!!!!!

the Masked Lapwing · Post by **the Masked Lapwing** » 09 Sep 2012, 13:17

Vettel out?

YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEES!

Now I just need to ignore his whining about the penalty and it'll be all good.

Shizuka · Post by **Shizuka** » 09 Sep 2012, 13:19

Webber! WTH?

FMecha · Post by **FMecha** » 09 Sep 2012, 13:21

With Vettel out, now just give the championship to Alonso. :cry:

QuickYoda41 · Post by **QuickYoda41** » 09 Sep 2012, 13:21

And I was thinking about not putting any Red Bulls into the top 10 in my predictions - put Vettel in after all

the Masked Lapwing · Post by **the Masked Lapwing** » 09 Sep 2012, 13:22

FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU-

FMecha · Post by **FMecha** » 09 Sep 2012, 13:24

WESTERN AUSTRALIA'S DANIEL RICCIARDO IN THE POINTS!!! [/oneorten]

Hamilton wins, and AUSTRALIA'S MARK WEBBER OUT!!

GwilymJJames · Post by **GwilymJJames** » 09 Sep 2012, 13:24

Countback watch: Kovalainen moves above Petrov; D'Ambrosio enters below them,

14 Hundred Hours · Post by **14 Hundred Hours** » 09 Sep 2012, 13:28

Anyone know why Hulkenberg retired?

Shizuka · Post by **Shizuka** » 09 Sep 2012, 13:31

Kimi is 3rd in the WCC, Mercedes is only 26 points ahead of Sauber.

"dis gun be gud"

Ferrarist · Post by **Ferrarist** » 09 Sep 2012, 13:34

Bernie, take a good look at these fans, and then ask yourself if it's worth the money to race at places like Abu Dhabi, Bahrain or China.

mdaclarke · Post by **mdaclarke** » 09 Sep 2012, 13:35

What happened to RIccardo? Senna was over 2 seconds behind and both him and Maldonado overtook him.

Shizuka · Post by **Shizuka** » 09 Sep 2012, 13:37

Did Lauda say "27 points behind" - isn't it 37?

Ferrarist · Post by **Ferrarist** » 09 Sep 2012, 13:39

Cameraman Alonso :lol:

EDIT: And Vettel looks really pissed in the interview with Kai Ebel. :lol:

Post by **Ataxia** » 09 Sep 2012, 13:43

As soon as Lauda turned up, I turned off.

Great race from Perez, he ended up 15 seconds ahead of Alonso which is really something.

QuickYoda41 · Post by **QuickYoda41** » 09 Sep 2012, 13:44

Shizuka wrote:Did Lauda say "27 points behind" - isn't it 37?

Well, he isn't the Professor, he doesn't have to be good at counting.

Pedestrian · Post by **Pedestrian** » 09 Sep 2012, 13:46

Aaaargh...! once again Fernando has the devil's own luck + team orders + disgusting favouritism from the FIA. Good thing that at least Perez took second place form him. Go Perez!

In the championship, it's clear that the battle is now between Alonso , Lewis and Kimi. Now I'm rooting for either one of the last two. I like Button but afte this retierment it's game over for him.
And in the WCC McLaren are still trailing Red bull by a big margin, and Button's retirement means they again couldn't maximize their advantage, but judging by the relative perfomance of the cars displayed today, McLaren still has a shot at the title.

Aerospeed · Post by **Aerospeed** » 09 Sep 2012, 13:47

Lauda again?

Still, Perez with the second!!!!! What a drive!!!! What a performance!!!!

pasta_maldonado · Post by **pasta_maldonado** » 09 Sep 2012, 13:50

JeremyMcClean wrote:Still, Perez with the second!!!!! What a drive!!!! What a performance!!!!

Yes I wholeheartedly agree, really wanted Hamilton to crash off in the last laps so Perez could win. Gald Vettel got penalised, definately don't want another Vettel title.

Post by **mario** » 09 Sep 2012, 14:00

JeremyMcClean wrote:Lauda again?

Still, Perez with the second!!!!! What a drive!!!! What a performance!!!!

That was an impressive drive from Perez, and it is interesting to speculate what might have happened if he'd cleared Alonso a few laps earlier (although Hamilton did seem to have just enough of a lead to have been able to have covered him anyway). It might also silence some of the criticism from earlier in the year when Perez backed off in Malaysia - it looks like Sauber are free to race Ferrari for position then...

Wizzie wrote:
GwilymJJames wrote:Felipe; you have two options. Either yield and be remembered as a pathetic loser, or hold position and be remembered as a racer.

Oh, it's pathetic loser.

In the grand scheme of things they had no real choice. It was either leave Massa ahead and have both their guys eaten up by Perez or let Alonso by and Massa play rear-gunner. Whether it's ethical or not however is an entirely different matter

I doubt that Ferrari would have wanted Massa to have drifted that far back behind Alonso at the end - he wasn't far away from being caught and passed by Kimi and Schumacher, which is a lot further than he really needed to drop behind Alonso. Given that, I wonder if Massa had a slight issue there - the team did mention that they were concerned about his fuel consumption after losing his telemetry feed.

On another note, what is going on with the Renault engines in the back of the RB8, and in particular the alternators that they are using (assuming that they had the same problem today)? Renault have already revised their alternator design in light of what happened in Valencia, but it still seems a little odd that Vettel should have had the same problem twice in very quick succession nevertheless.

pasta_maldonado · Post by **pasta_maldonado** » 09 Sep 2012, 14:10

Mario, perhaps you could answer this - Why do the Red Bulls have poor straight line speed? I know they like to run high downforce, but this weekend they were obviously running low downfoce and were still slow. Are they overweight? I don't think the Reanult is underpowered either? Or is the car about as slippery as sandpaper?

Oh, and if Ferrari keep Massa instead of Perez, Domenicalli should be given the sack.

Peter · Post by **Peter** » 09 Sep 2012, 14:15

Pedestrian wrote:Aaaargh...! once again Fernando has the devil's own luck + team orders + disgusting favouritism from the FIA. Good thing that at least Perez took second place form him. Go Perez!

In the championship, it's clear that the battle is now between Alonso , Lewis and Kimi. Now I'm rooting for either one of the last two. I like Button but afte this retierment it's game over for him.
And in the WCC McLaren are still trailing Red bull by a big margin, and Button's retirement means they again couldn't maximize their advantage, but judging by the relative perfomance of the cars displayed today, McLaren still has a shot at the title.

Vettel deserved that penalty. He pushed Alonso off the road at over 200mph. Alonso is lucky he had 2 wheels still on track, if the car went completely off, at 200mph, who knows if Alonso would still be alive right now. Team orders are also legal now, and Alonso has a championship lead to retain, which is much more important than the underperforming Brazilian to finally take a podium.

Dan B · Post by **Dan B** » 09 Sep 2012, 14:16

One of the better races at Monza that I have seen, especially compared to last year when Vettel took the lead and it became a processional. Here we had passing, attrition, and overall a good race. Some notes:
- Vettel's penalty was justified I think. That could have been a LOT worse if Alonso lost control of the car. By the same token, di Resta should have been given a penalty. I wouldn't be surprised to see a 5 spot penalty on his head come Singapore.
- Red Bull needs to do something about the alternator design; this is the same problem that befell them in Valencia, and whilst Renault has since fixed the problem, Red Bull has not. Which is surprising considering they are so precise on how their cars are designed (but then again, that might be the reason why).
- Seeing Perez come out of nowhere to take 2nd is really, really surprising. That said, Massa also had pace today and was in the podium spots for quite a while. Ferrari faces a dilemma here.
- Maldonado didn't crash NOR did he cause any trouble for once!

Ferrim · Post by **Ferrim** » 09 Sep 2012, 14:21

I'm not a technical expert, and certainly no mario, but I believe that when you have a car that generates a lot of downforce you are always going to have some issues with drag, so it's unlikely that you have the fastest car down the straights. It's like when you have a car that saves the tyres -you're going to hit some trouble to qualify well.

Bob · Post by **Bob** » 09 Sep 2012, 14:22

BaconLettuceNinja wrote:As soon as Lauda turned up, I turned off.

I watch on RTL, that's a bit difficult :lol:

pasta_maldonado · Post by **pasta_maldonado** » 09 Sep 2012, 14:33

Ferrim wrote:I'm not a technical expert, and certainly no mario, but I believe that when you have a car that generates a lot of downforce you are always going to have some issues with drag, so it's unlikely that you have the fastest car down the straights. It's like when you have a car that saves the tyres -you're going to hit some trouble to qualify well.

Thank you Ferrim

Jocke1 · Post by **Jocke1** » 09 Sep 2012, 14:38

Shizuka wrote:Kimi is 3rd in the WCC

Is Kimi a car? A car driving a car :?:

Post by **mario** » 09 Sep 2012, 14:40

pasta_maldonado wrote:Mario, perhaps you could answer this - Why do the Red Bulls have poor straight line speed? I know they like to run high downforce, but this weekend they were obviously running low downfoce and were still slow. Are they overweight? I don't think the Reanult is underpowered either? Or is the car about as slippery as sandpaper?

Oh, and if Ferrari keep Massa instead of Perez, Domenicalli should be given the sack.

Asides from the point of aero efficiency that Ferrim raises, there are a few other points to be added to that too.

The Renault engine is normally believed to be slightly less powerful than the Ferrari or Mercedes engines, but not by a massive amount (it was quoted as being around 10bhp a few years ago, and things have probably remained fairly static since then).
That said, power might have been an issue due to the fact that Red Bull decided to re-use an old engine rather than choosing to install a new engine for this race - Ferrari reckon that an engine loses around 5bhp over a full race distance, and both Red Bulls were using engines with a reasonable amount of mileage on them. Whilst we are on the topic of power, Red Bull are, at least according to Kravitz, using an undersized KERS unit - the peak power of their unit is reportedly capped at 40kW, mainly because that cuts the cooling requirements - and Monza is the one circuit where that power difference would be more apparent.

The other issue is gearing, as the teams are limited to the number of gear ratios they can use across the entire season (they are limited to 30 gear ratios for the entire year). The current engines have a relatively narrow power band - only a few thousand rpm - and with Monza being something of an anomaly these days, Red Bull have probably decided to compromise slightly on their longest gear ratios to prevent them being overgeared at over venues.

Shizuka · Post by **Shizuka** » 09 Sep 2012, 14:41

Jocke1 wrote:
Shizuka wrote:Kimi is 3rd in the WCC

Is Kimi a car? A car driving a car

Damn, my finger slipped :oops:

I meant WDC there of course.