2013 Silly Season Thread

Ferrim · Post by **Ferrim** » 06 Oct 2012, 10:56

Backmarker wrote:
eurobrun wrote:
Backmarker wrote:Sauber - Robin Frijns? (Rumoured for a race seat, maybe a year testing first?)

This is the first I've heard of those rumours

Frijns could be Sauber or Williams testdriver

Heeft overstappen Perez gevolgen voor Robin Frijns?

Looking at the second link...

overstappen

Is The Boss coming back???

:mrgreen:

Backmarker · Post by **Backmarker** » 06 Oct 2012, 11:02

Ferrim wrote:Looking at the second link...

overstappen

Is The Boss coming back???

I am a big fan of Jos the Boss, he has won lots of drivers' titles for me in Grand Prix Manager 2. I'd love to see him come back (though I think he's a bit chunky these days - hell, even in his F1 days he was chunky, given he couldn't fit inside a Sauber). Maybe Max Verstappen can make it to F1, but he's guaranteed to be a poor replacement for the Boss.

dinizintheoven · Post by **dinizintheoven** » 06 Oct 2012, 13:56

Backmarker wrote:I am a big fan of Jos the Boss, he has won lots of drivers' titles for me in Grand Prix Manager 2. I'd love to see him come back (though I think he's a bit chunky these days - hell, even in his F1 days he was chunky, given he couldn't fit inside a Sauber). Maybe Max Verstappen can make it to F1, but he's guaranteed to be a poor replacement for the Boss.

And I've just had a fantastic idea for the "Driver Pairings" thread...

Nessafox · Post by **Nessafox** » 06 Oct 2012, 21:25

Backmarker wrote:
Ferrim wrote:Looking at the second link...

overstappen

Is The Boss coming back???

I am a big fan of Jos the Boss, he has won lots of drivers' titles for me in Grand Prix Manager 2. I'd love to see him come back (though I think he's a bit chunky these days - hell, even in his F1 days he was chunky, given he couldn't fit inside a Sauber). Maybe Max Verstappen can make it to F1, but he's guaranteed to be a poor replacement for the Boss.

I don't wish to ruin you dreams, but overstappen just means stepping over :lol:

Backmarker · Post by **Backmarker** » 06 Oct 2012, 22:00

This wrote:
Backmarker wrote:
Ferrim wrote:Looking at the second link...

overstappen

Is The Boss coming back???

I am a big fan of Jos the Boss, he has won lots of drivers' titles for me in Grand Prix Manager 2. I'd love to see him come back (though I think he's a bit chunky these days - hell, even in his F1 days he was chunky, given he couldn't fit inside a Sauber). Maybe Max Verstappen can make it to F1, but he's guaranteed to be a poor replacement for the Boss.

I don't wish to ruin you dreams, but overstappen just means stepping over

And Verstappen means stumbling. I can just about read Dutch if I have to, but I have to admit, seeing 'overstappen' did make me think of Jos too.

Klon · Post by **Klon** » 07 Oct 2012, 00:00

Backmarker wrote:And Verstappen means stumbling.

*Looks for a certain post*
Ah, there we go.

Klon wrote:
"Heh heh heh. Oh, Jos Verstappen. You wife-beating drunk. Heh heh heh."

TomWazzleshaw · Post by **TomWazzleshaw** » 07 Oct 2012, 08:18

The more I think about it, the less and less likely it is for Jean-Eric Vergne to keep his drive for next year. Why, you may ask? The reason is simple.

Since the beginning of the year, Vergne has been regarded as the better racer of the two with Ricciardo by far and away the better qualifier. However, since Monaco, Ricciardo has beaten Vergne 5-1 in the races where they both finished and has been thrashed 7-2 in qualifying over that same period. Add Red Bull's trigger-happy management to the mix and suddenly you got a situation where Vergne's under real pressure to perform.

His only saving grace right now is that the team don't really have anyone that's in the pipeline and ready to replace him for next year.

Post by **mario** » 07 Oct 2012, 09:11

Wizzie wrote:The more I think about it, the less and less likely it is for Jean-Eric Vergne to keep his drive for next year. Why, you may ask? The reason is simple.

Since the beginning of the year, Vergne has been regarded as the better racer of the two with Ricciardo by far and away the better qualifier. However, since Monaco, Ricciardo has beaten Vergne 5-1 in the races where they both finished and has been thrashed 7-2 in qualifying over that same period. Add Red Bull's trigger-happy management to the mix and suddenly you got a situation where Vergne's under real pressure to perform.

His only saving grace right now is that the team don't really have anyone that's in the pipeline and ready to replace him for next year.

The shortage of alternatives might not save him for too long, though; Brundle expects that Red Bull will start giving da Costa seat time in a Toro Rosso next year in Friday practise session to pressurise both drivers into picking up their pace. It'd also be a bit embarrassing for Red Bull to fire one of the Toro Rosso drivers as it'd effectively be admitting that they made a mistake with their line up this year.

Shizuka · Post by **Shizuka** » 07 Oct 2012, 09:14

Wizzie wrote:The more I think about it, the less and less likely it is for Jean-Eric Vergne to keep his drive for next year. Why, you may ask? The reason is simple.

Since the beginning of the year, Vergne has been regarded as the better racer of the two with Ricciardo by far and away the better qualifier. However, since Monaco, Ricciardo has beaten Vergne 5-1 in the races where they both finished and has been thrashed 7-2 in qualifying over that same period. Add Red Bull's trigger-happy management to the mix and suddenly you got a situation where Vergne's under real pressure to perform.

His only saving grace right now is that the team don't really have anyone that's in the pipeline and ready to replace him for next year.

Plus he's only scored two 8th places while Ricciardo has scored three 9th and now a 10th - he's starting to drive more and more consistent.

Benetton · Post by **Benetton** » 07 Oct 2012, 10:45

I'm not so sure that Grosjean will drive for Lotus next year. He has cost them the 3rd place in the WCC and is providing quite a repair bill to boot. Raikkonen and Grosjean are like the completely opposites when it comes to situational awareness on the track.

I'd like to see a Raikkonen-Hulkenberg pairing at Lotus. Hulkenberg has really stepped it up this year and shows he is ready to advance from a Force India. Also opens up the door for Bianchi to replace Nico.

RBR - Vettel, Webber
McLaren - Button, Perez
Ferrari - Alonso, Massa
Lotus - Raikkonen, Hulkenberg
Mercedes - Hamilton, Rosberg
Sauber - Kobayashi, Gutierrez
Williams - Maldonado, Bottas
Force India - di Resta, Bianchi

James1978 · Post by **James1978** » 07 Oct 2012, 16:38

With Sauber looking as if they could beat Merc in the constructors championship (they could have been even closer if not for Perez stuffing it in the wall), Hamilton could end up with car 12 next year which Ayrton Senna had for 4 seasons.....(I reckon Rosberg will have the lower number being the incumbent)!

14 Hundred Hours · Post by **14 Hundred Hours** » 07 Oct 2012, 17:32

Benetton wrote:Lotus - Raikkonen, Hulkenberg

I like this idea! Partly cos I remember reading a couple of years ago that there was something Raikkonenesque about Hulkenberg, but largely to do with me agreeing he deserves a chance with a better team. And I don't think (especially after today) that there's an opening for him at Ferrari.

FullMetalJack · Post by **FullMetalJack** » 07 Oct 2012, 17:38

14 Hundred Hours wrote: And I don't think (especially after today) that there's an opening for him at Ferrari.

Through no fault of his own either, he drove nicely today. Good answer to that crap showing at Singapore.

TheBigJ · Post by **TheBigJ** » 07 Oct 2012, 17:46

I see Raikkonen jumping ship before Grosjean is forced out. He probably feels not only let down, but also is wondering why Eric Boullier is maintaining faith in his protégé. Let's be honest, for a team with such a near-recent illustrious history, they have been very amateurish. That car is quite simply a race-winning car at the hands of a race winning driver, but the strategy choices and qually setups show a distinct lack of professionalism. Raikkonnen might fancy his chances with Williams, which I believe has a car with similar potential to the Sauber, only handled by numpties.

It's called Silly Season for a reason, right?

Backmarker · Post by **Backmarker** » 07 Oct 2012, 17:53

Benetton wrote:I'm not so sure that Grosjean will drive for Lotus next year. He has cost them the 3rd place in the WCC and is providing quite a repair bill to boot. Raikkonen and Grosjean are like the completely opposites when it comes to situational awareness on the track.

Given that Total sponsorship was linked to his getting a seat, can Lotus afford to drop him, especially if Group Lotus' money isn't secure. And isn't Eric Boullier his manager? So I can't see him dropping his own driver.

girry · Post by **girry** » 07 Oct 2012, 18:05

I reckon d'Ambrosio will be one happy reserve driver next season should Lotus keep all their drivers and Grosjean keeps his ways...

Pamphlet · Post by **Pamphlet** » 07 Oct 2012, 18:18

TheBigJ wrote:That car is quite simply a race-winning car

The Lotus may not be a Mercedes, but it's still not a race-winning car anymore. They need that double DRS badly.

14 Hundred Hours · Post by **14 Hundred Hours** » 07 Oct 2012, 18:46

redbulljack14 wrote:
14 Hundred Hours wrote: And I don't think (especially after today) that there's an opening for him at Ferrari.

Through no fault of his own either, he drove nicely today. Good answer to that crap showing at Singapore.

True- I made it sound like he didn't do too well. I shoulda said something along the lines of 'I think that Massa's podium have finally given Ferrari an excuse to keep him on.'

I need to work on expressing myself better.

Post by **mario** » 07 Oct 2012, 20:13

Pamphlet wrote:
TheBigJ wrote:That car is quite simply a race-winning car

The Lotus may not be a Mercedes, but it's still not a race-winning car anymore. They need that double DRS badly.

I have to agree that, on current form, Lotus's best chances for a race win came and went before the summer break - in the past few races, Red Bull, Ferrari and McLaren seem to have pulled away from Lotus, whilst Sauber, Force India and Williams are pressurising them depending on the circuit characteristics. Kimi could consider himself somewhat lucky to finish in 6th - Hulkenberg was barely 0.7s behind him at the finish, whilst Maldonado was within two seconds and also catching him quickly in the closing laps.

As for upcoming developments, that DDRS would only solve some of Lotus's problems due to the limits on when it can be used. The problems that Lotus are struggling with seem to be much more deeply rooted than just their DDRS - the comments from Allison and Boullier, where they admitted that they simply had no more pace up their sleeve, indicates that there may be issues with developments not working as effectively as hoped (the struggles with their DDRS seem to suggest that may be the case).
If anything, their DDRS might be more of a disadvantage than an advantage at the moment - I have to wonder whether their technical problems have hindered their development work elsewhere due to resources being diverted into that development instead.

Now, Red Bull have apparently bolted on a DDRS system aimed at stalling the rear beam wing (they appear to have had it since Singapore, and it is part of the reason why Red Bull are now noticeably quicker through the speed traps than once they were), but that was because they needed to find a way to boost their qualifying performance and put themselves ahead of McLaren on the grid.
It is true that Lotus's qualifying performance has generally been a weak link - whilst Grosjean set the 5th fastest time in Q3, he was a second slower than Vettel and six tenths slower than Button - but normally that would be offset in the race through superior tyre management in the latter stages of the race.

Here, though, whilst Kimi's lap times were quite consistent for much of his stints, you could see that his times started to worsen slightly earlier than Button's times, for example. His tyre wear wasn't bad, but it looks like Lotus no longer have the advantage in that department they once had (even Mercedes, normally one of the harder outfits on their tyres, had reasonable tyre wear in this race), so their race pace isn't quite as strong as once it was.
Even if they get their DDRS working, I doubt it'll be the silver bullet that the team are hoping for if overall development has slipped behind their rivals.

AndreaModa · Post by **AndreaModa** » 07 Oct 2012, 21:31

Backmarker wrote:
Benetton wrote:I'm not so sure that Grosjean will drive for Lotus next year. He has cost them the 3rd place in the WCC and is providing quite a repair bill to boot. Raikkonen and Grosjean are like the completely opposites when it comes to situational awareness on the track.

Given that Total sponsorship was linked to his getting a seat, can Lotus afford to drop him, especially if Group Lotus' money isn't secure. And isn't Eric Boullier his manager? So I can't see him dropping his own driver.

This. Not only will Boulier want his driver in the team, Total want a French driver too. Maybe they'll settle for a Belgian, I don't know, but it's hard to say D'Ambrosio is much of a step up from Romain. Maybe Pic fancies his chances?

Cynon · Post by **Cynon** » 07 Oct 2012, 21:38

AndreaModa wrote:
Backmarker wrote:
Benetton wrote:I'm not so sure that Grosjean will drive for Lotus next year. He has cost them the 3rd place in the WCC and is providing quite a repair bill to boot. Raikkonen and Grosjean are like the completely opposites when it comes to situational awareness on the track.

Given that Total sponsorship was linked to his getting a seat, can Lotus afford to drop him, especially if Group Lotus' money isn't secure. And isn't Eric Boullier his manager? So I can't see him dropping his own driver.

This. Not only will Boulier want his driver in the team, Total want a French driver too. Maybe they'll settle for a Belgian, I don't know, but it's hard to say D'Ambrosio is much of a step up from Romain. Maybe Pic fancies his chances?

Either Pic fancies his chances, or he finances his chances.

Backmarker · Post by **Backmarker** » 07 Oct 2012, 21:58

Romain Grosjean is fully capable of avoiding accidents - in his championship year of GP2 he retired only once, at Valencia, thanks to a first lap collision with Rodolfo Gonzalez and (ironically, given we're discussing him replacing Grosjean) Charles Pic. Avoiding collisions in GP2 is no mean feat, thanks to an inexperienced grid, with reversed grids for the sprint race meaning the better drivers end up near the back - yet he managed it nearly all season. So why is Grosjean crashing now? I'd say, if anything, he's over-thinking it. Whereas in GP2 he knew he was among peers (and better than most of them), in F1 he's aware that he's up against more experienced drivers, and that there's a higher standard expected by the stewards, so he's getting flustered and making silly mistakes. If I was Boullier, I would send him to a sports psychologist to see if that improved anything, and I would get Alain Prost or someone else who we had knocking around Enstone (has anyone seen Alexander Wurz recently) to give him a bit of training. I hope he doesn't get dropped, I think he's a talented driver who needs patience and time to develop (like Eddie Irvine and Felipe Massa - clearly he'd make a brilliant no. 2 at Ferrari).

Aerospeed · Post by **Aerospeed** » 07 Oct 2012, 22:24

Backmarker wrote: If I was Boullier, I would send him to a sports psychologist to see if that improved anything, and I would get Alain Prost or someone else who we had knocking around Enstone (has anyone seen Alexander Wurz recently).

Last time I checked, Wurz was helping out an equally erratic Pastor Maldonado at Williams.

Backmarker · Post by **Backmarker** » 07 Oct 2012, 22:40

JeremyMcClean wrote:
Backmarker wrote: If I was Boullier, I would send him to a sports psychologist to see if that improved anything, and I would get Alain Prost or someone else who we had knocking around Enstone (has anyone seen Alexander Wurz recently).

Last time I checked, Wurz was helping out an equally erratic Pastor Maldonado at Williams.

Sounds about right. Fisi's retired now, get him back to teach him how to start safely.

Post by **Londoner** » 07 Oct 2012, 23:13

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/19861867

Looks like Felipe's drive yesterday really was a career-saver. What he needs to do now is maintain this level of form for the rest of the season, then I'll be totally convinced he deserves to stay at Ferrari. I'd say he stands a good chance of more podiums in Korea and Brazil. India is the question mark though, considering his horrorshow last year with those kerbs...

Post by **Londoner** » 07 Oct 2012, 23:28

And talking about Twitter, it's taken Hamilton nearly two weeks to realise that he's been unfollowed by Button. And he's not happy about it. Tabloid media frenzy in 3, 2, 1, :lol:

https://twitter.com/LewisHamilton/status/255073985493073920

Aerospeed · Post by **Aerospeed** » 07 Oct 2012, 23:33

East Londoner wrote:And talking about Twitter, it's taken Hamilton nearly two weeks to realise that he's been unfollowed by Button. And he's not happy about it. Tabloid media frenzy in 3, 2, 1,

https://twitter.com/LewisHamilton/status/255073985493073920

Upon further investigation it seems Button never followed Hamilton in the first place. Very ignorant indeed.

Klon · Post by **Klon** » 07 Oct 2012, 23:37

Hmmm, that flaming response by Hamilton to a supposed reaction by Button after he has been revealed to be playing for the other team from next year on sure leaves questions open.

Captain Hammer · Post by **Captain Hammer** » 08 Oct 2012, 02:28

I'm intrigued by David Croft's comments that there will be a few surprises next year.

I can't help but wonder if Lotus will cut Grosjean loose. He's had one too many first lap incidents - eight from fourteen starts. It will be a difficult decision to replace him, but I think the best thing for him will be to start further down the grid because it will give him more time to react to the start and position himself carefully.

Benetton · Post by **Benetton** » 08 Oct 2012, 08:00

TheBigJ wrote:I see Raikkonen jumping ship before Grosjean is forced out. He probably feels not only let down, but also is wondering why Eric Boullier is maintaining faith in his protégé.

I don't think Kimi gives a shite about who sits in the other car :lol:

Total might be more pleased to have a French driver in the team but I hardly believe they'd drop their sponsorship to the team if Romain was replaced given his erratic performances. Total was already sponsoring the team way before Romain was a drive there. Romain has already cost the team with repair bills plus lost revenue from points and a 3rd place finish in the WCC.

As far as Raikkonen goes I'll believe he will stay with the team for one more season since he has way more input in the next years car than in the current E20. However, it is true that Lotuses lack of development has been quite bad even compared to Sauber. Could the problem be the financials?? They do need a new mainish sponsor for next year I guess. Angry Birds livery would be nice.

Captain Hammer · Post by **Captain Hammer** » 08 Oct 2012, 08:42

Benetton wrote:I don't think Kimi gives a shite about who sits in the other car

He won't ... right up to the moment Ruh-Roh! takes him out.

Backmarker · Post by **Backmarker** » 08 Oct 2012, 11:17

Benetton wrote:Total might be more pleased to have a French driver in the team but I hardly believe they'd drop their sponsorship to the team if Romain was replaced given his erratic performances. Total was already sponsoring the team way before Romain was a drive there. Romain has already cost the team with repair bills plus lost revenue from points and a 3rd place finish in the WCC.

Total are a personal sponsor of Romain Grosjean. Total's current contract expires at the end of the season. Total's contract with Enstone ended at the end of last season and was only extended with a seat for Romain Grosjean being a condition. Unless Enstone have other sponsors lined up and can afford to see Total walk away (unlikely, given that the Group Lotus money is presumably in doubt beyond this season), or if they can convince Total to switch sponsorship to another driver (say Charles Pic), they will have to re-sign Grosjean. I personally think Grosjean's done okay in his first full season of F1 - three podiums, and currently beating Massa, Peréz and Schumacher in the WC, he just needs patience.

Phoenix · Post by **Phoenix** » 08 Oct 2012, 15:15

Romain Grosjean has been erratic at times indeed, but definately worth persisting with. He has the same vice as many unexperienced drivers, and that is impetuosity and a propensity to have accidents when crowded. His pace has been excellent more often than not, even more so than that or Kimi Räikkönen, and that's a very big incentive apart from the sponsorship he can bring in from Total. They must focus on refining him, because it seems unlikely he will begin being slow overnight. Once he stops making mistakes, he'll be a very valuable asset for the team and a longer term prospect than the Finn.

Backmarker · Post by **Backmarker** » 08 Oct 2012, 15:26

Just seen this:

Of the drivers this season (excluding Jerome d'Ambrosio) Romain Grosjean has completed the least laps. Even less than HRT drivers (though they're so slow off the grid they would struggle to hit anyone).

Salamander · Post by **Salamander** » 08 Oct 2012, 15:44

Backmarker wrote:Just seen this:

Of the drivers this season (excluding Jerome d'Ambrosio) Romain Grosjean has completed the least laps. Even less than HRT drivers (though they're so slow off the grid they would struggle to hit anyone).

Even if you added d'Ambrosio's laps to Grosjean's, he'd still be last. That's pretty damning.

takagi_for_the_win · Post by **takagi_for_the_win** » 08 Oct 2012, 17:45

Benetton wrote:I'm not so sure that Grosjean will drive for Lotus next year. He has cost them the 3rd place in the WCC and is providing quite a repair bill to boot. Raikkonen and Grosjean are like the completely opposites when it comes to situational awareness on the track.

I personally feel the best option for Lotus is to "loan" Grosjean to another team, preferably a lower midfield team. That way, he still has to drive competitively, but with less pressure. I think that Grosjean could well be a future champion as he has shown fantastic pace for a man i his first full season of F1, but he needs to become more consistant.

roblo97 · Post by **roblo97** » 08 Oct 2012, 18:07

takagi_for_the_win wrote:
Benetton wrote:I'm not so sure that Grosjean will drive for Lotus next year. He has cost them the 3rd place in the WCC and is providing quite a repair bill to boot. Raikkonen and Grosjean are like the completely opposites when it comes to situational awareness on the track.

I personally feel the best option for Lotus is to "loan" Grosjean to another team, preferably a lower midfield team. That way, he still has to drive competitively, but with less pressure. I think that Grosjean could well be a future champion as he has shown fantastic pace for a man i his first full season of F1, but he needs to become more consistant.

i rekon grosjean should loaned to force india because hulkenburg is likley to move to ferrari or lotus so that would be an ideal situation for both drivers especially romain ( or as the sun said today, sebastian) because both have show that they are capible so therefore why not

Post by **mario** » 08 Oct 2012, 18:15

JeremyMcClean wrote:
East Londoner wrote:And talking about Twitter, it's taken Hamilton nearly two weeks to realise that he's been unfollowed by Button. And he's not happy about it. Tabloid media frenzy in 3, 2, 1,

https://twitter.com/LewisHamilton/status/255073985493073920

Upon further investigation it seems Button never followed Hamilton in the first place. Very ignorant indeed.

According to the BBC, it sounds as if Hamilton was taken in by reports from an independent journalist who made up the story - as Button later said, it sounds more like certain members of the press were trying to provoke a conflict between the two drivers to create headlines (something that sounds very credible given what the gutter press can be like).

takagi_for_the_win wrote:
Benetton wrote:I'm not so sure that Grosjean will drive for Lotus next year. He has cost them the 3rd place in the WCC and is providing quite a repair bill to boot. Raikkonen and Grosjean are like the completely opposites when it comes to situational awareness on the track.

I personally feel the best option for Lotus is to "loan" Grosjean to another team, preferably a lower midfield team. That way, he still has to drive competitively, but with less pressure. I think that Grosjean could well be a future champion as he has shown fantastic pace for a man i his first full season of F1, but he needs to become more consistant.

A bit like Ferrari sending Massa to Sauber for a few seasons before hiring him again for their main team? That said, that deal worked because Sauber and Ferrari had a long established working partnership, so Ferrari could continually monitor and assess Massa's form whilst he was at Sauber (not to mention the additional time he spent working as a test driver). Does Lotus have a strong enough working relationship with another team that would enable them to place Grosjean at another team and monitor his progress quite as closely? I wouldn't have thought so.

Overall, I think that Grosjean might still stay at Lotus given that, when he has kept his head, he has been very quick - let us not forget that he has picked up multiple podiums on merit. I imagine that he might get one more shot next year, but with Boullier openly touting D'Ambrosio to other teams I expect that he'll be under heavy pressure to change his approach to racing. Finding an experienced former driver to coach Grosjean might be a little difficult given that Grosjean has been a little recalcitrant over accepting advice from others, but it probably would be a good step in the right direction (Massa was a little rough around the edges at times but Schumacher coached Massa quite effectively, even after he switched from the cockpit to his consulting role at Ferrari).

dinizintheoven · Post by **dinizintheoven** » 09 Oct 2012, 12:51

BlindCaveSalamander wrote:Even if you added d'Ambrosio's laps to Grosjean's, he'd still be last. That's pretty damning.

Let us also not forget, he's had the same number of races as Pedro and Cucumber, given their antics in Melbourne. This also says a lot for Michael Schumacher's season.

Timo Glock is a race down as well, with that DNS in Valencia - and he's half way up the table. Although I reckon, if it had been any other circuit, that illness would magically have cleared up and he'd have qualified in his usual 21st and finished two laps down.

Post by **Londoner** » 09 Oct 2012, 23:14

At the risk of sending the good Captain into orbit with rage, here's an interesting article from Joe Saward about pay-drivers and the silly season.

And while I'm at, here's some further news on the Hamilton-Button Twitter stupidity. :lol: