Beat Tilke at his own game

[dr-baker]

brands hatch
http://www.gmap-pedometer.com/?r=5706596
i've added a new loop around druids and a new loop around the back of the circuit with some fast corners and a chicane leading onto the pit straight

Well done on preserving Paddock Hill bend but...

GET RID OF CLEARWAYS AND DRUIDS? WAHT ARE YOU, CRAZY? THAT IS TOTAL BLESPHEMY!!! WHERE ARE THE PAPAYAS???

[roblo97]

brands hatch
http://www.gmap-pedometer.com/?r=5706596
i've added a new loop around druids and a new loop around the back of the circuit with some fast corners and a chicane leading onto the pit straight

Well done on preserving Paddock Hill bend but...

GET RID OF CLEARWAYS AND DRUIDS? WAHT ARE YOU, CRAZY? THAT IS TOTAL BLESPHEMY!!! WHERE ARE THE PAPAYAS???

which do you think is better druids or clearways because i can edit the track at school twomorrow
i thought this would happen sooner or later with one of my designs

[Ataxia]

brands hatch
http://www.gmap-pedometer.com/?r=5706596
i've added a new loop around druids and a new loop around the back of the circuit with some fast corners and a chicane leading onto the pit straight

Well done on preserving Paddock Hill bend but...

GET RID OF CLEARWAYS AND DRUIDS? WAHT ARE YOU, CRAZY? THAT IS TOTAL BLESPHEMY!!! WHERE ARE THE PAPAYAS???

which do you think is better druids or clearways because i can edit the track at school twomorrow
i thought this would happen sooner or later with one of my designs

At school? Do they not have lessons anymore?

[pasta_maldonado]

brands hatch
http://www.gmap-pedometer.com/?r=5706596
i've added a new loop around druids and a new loop around the back of the circuit with some fast corners and a chicane leading onto the pit straight

Well done on preserving Paddock Hill bend but...

GET RID OF CLEARWAYS AND DRUIDS? WAHT ARE YOU, CRAZY? THAT IS TOTAL BLESPHEMY!!! WHERE ARE THE PAPAYAS???

which do you think is better druids or clearways because i can edit the track at school twomorrow
i thought this would happen sooner or later with one of my designs

Both! Brands Hatch is great as it is - it doesn't need to be changed

[roblo97]

which do you think is better druids or clearways because i can edit the track at school twomorrow
i thought this would happen sooner or later with one of my designs

At school? Do they not have lessons anymore?

yeah but i'll do it at break time after art where i'm shading in D.C at the moment as a part of my gcse

[Londoner]

which do you think is better druids or clearways because i can edit the track at school twomorrow
i thought this would happen sooner or later with one of my designs

At school? Do they not have lessons anymore?

yeah but i'll do it at break time after art where i'm shading in D.C at the moment as a part of my gcse

So part of your Art GCSE (I assume you're taking Art) is drawing and colouring in David Coulthard?

[roblo97]

yeah but i'll do it at break time after art where i'm shading in D.C at the moment as a part of my gcse

So part of your Art GCSE (I assume you're taking Art) is drawing and colouring in David Coulthard?

yeah art is one of the subjects i'm taking and the part i'm on at the moment in art is about cubism

[girry]

You think of operating BRANDS HATCH???

I'm sorry, but no one shall touch the profile of what is the ultimate example of 'flow' on racetracks all over the world. It can just be edited to worse, so please not.

[UncreativeUsername37]

yeah but i'll do it at break time after art where i'm shading in D.C at the moment as a part of my gcse

So part of your Art GCSE (I assume you're taking Art) is drawing and colouring in David Coulthard?

yeah art is one of the subjects i'm taking and the part i'm on at the moment in art is about cubism

But you're too educated stupid to understand the 4-simultaneous nature of cubism!

[legendari25]

Dear Captain Hammer: I would like to revive this thread by answering to some of your criticisms on criticisms. Whenever I have the time, I will upload my many track designs, and see if I can beat Tilke at his own game.

I hate to say it - I'm not really a fan of anything you're produced so far. Most of what you have uploaded, and you explanations of what you have changed and why only really amount to "this is better because it is different". For example, you barely made any changes at all to Imola; 99% of what you used was the existing circuit, and then you touted it as being revolutionary. And when you did alter circuits drastically - particularly with Aintree and Kyalami - I felt your changes were unnecessary and jarring.

OK I am sick of this. I finally found some time and redesigned Imola under your Tilkeish standards.



But surely you won't admit you like this much better, because it's obvious I'm pulling your leg...

Anyway, I really don't mind your oppinion, since you're incapable of giving proper feedback on my designs.

Rob Lomas, I really like your tracks. If you don't mind I'll grab your work and fine tune it.

Cheers, guys

Dario Fernandez

[girry]

lol, that one seriously made me laugh, I guess Apex Designs could well make something like that

[roblo97]

Dear Captain Hammer: I would like to revive this thread by answering to some of your criticisms on criticisms. Whenever I have the time, I will upload my many track designs, and see if I can beat Tilke at his own game.

I hate to say it - I'm not really a fan of anything you're produced so far. Most of what you have uploaded, and you explanations of what you have changed and why only really amount to "this is better because it is different". For example, you barely made any changes at all to Imola; 99% of what you used was the existing circuit, and then you touted it as being revolutionary. And when you did alter circuits drastically - particularly with Aintree and Kyalami - I felt your changes were unnecessary and jarring.

OK I am sick of this. I finally found some time and redesigned Imola under your Tilkeish standards.



But surely you won't admit you like this much better, because it's obvious I'm pulling your leg...

Anyway, I really don't mind your oppinion, since you're incapable of giving proper feedback on my designs.

Rob Lomas, I really like your tracks. If you don't mind I'll grab your work and fine tune it.

Cheers, guys
Dario Fernandez

Cheers dario I really don't mind if you tweak my tracks so go ahead and do what you want with them

Cheers dario
Rob lomas

[roblo97]

brands hatch
http://www.gmap-pedometer.com/?r=5706596
i've added a new loop around druids and a new loop around the back of the circuit with some fast corners and a chicane leading onto the pit straight

Well done on preserving Paddock Hill bend but...

GET RID OF CLEARWAYS AND DRUIDS? WAHT ARE YOU, CRAZY? THAT IS TOTAL BLESPHEMY!!! WHERE ARE THE PAPAYAS???

is this better then
http://gmap-pedometer.com/?r=5706596
i am at school now during lunch break

[dr-baker]

brands hatch
http://www.gmap-pedometer.com/?r=5706596
i've added a new loop around druids and a new loop around the back of the circuit with some fast corners and a chicane leading onto the pit straight

Well done on preserving Paddock Hill bend but...

GET RID OF CLEARWAYS AND DRUIDS? WAHT ARE YOU, CRAZY? THAT IS TOTAL BLESPHEMY!!! WHERE ARE THE PAPAYAS???

is this better then
http://gmap-pedometer.com/?r=5706596
i am at school now during lunch break

Yes, much better! I would also have accepted this. Brilliant for spectator viewing from the grandstands (and great fun in FFord in TOCA for PSP...).

[roblo97]

shanghai
http://www.gmap-pedometer.com?r=5708275

bahrain
http://www.gmap-pedometer.com/?r=5707823
this or rip the track up because they don't deserve a gp because of all that human rights stuff before this years and last years race

[legendari25]

You really can't tell how crappy the image really looks until you see it out of the iPod and on your screen. I'll scan them tomorrow, but here are a few drawings from my high-school time.

This is an argentine track-city very much like LeMans, honouring the greatest F1-golden-era driver and, in my opinion, the second-best ever, Juan Manuel Fangio. It's called "Ciudad Fangio"

Clockwise, about 7 km long. Date: 15.9.08

This is a completely new track to develop where the old twisty Bremgarten was. Although there is a ban on racing in Switzerland since cars are not allowed to do more than 120 kph in the whole country, not only on public roads. So maybe this should be done somewhere else... It's a Tilkeish design but more human than the Hockenheimring.

Clockwise, about 4.5 km long. Date: (S.Hemisphere) winter 2009.

This is a racetrack that's meant to be driven in any direction, in any of the many variations. The pit building is that barely visible rectangle in the lowermost part of the image. This was done during a maths class, so it's not very tidy. It's supposed to be inside a dense forest. Some corner complexes were done quickly and badly. I want ideas, guys.

Clockwise and anticlockwise, about 5 km long in the largest layout. Date: somewhere in 2007.

This is a track that combines the most challenging corners of Imola (Tosa, Piratella, Acqua Minarale) with a stadium racetrack that can be used with two immense straights for testing or in the infield variations. Maybe an additional bypass could be installed so that both pitlanes can be used simultaneously. No idea where it could be placed. The track is situated inside the black outlines. The white rectangles are either pit buildings or grandstands. Gravel traps have different colours.

Anticlockwise, about 8 km long in the largest layout. Date: late 2009.

This is the original layout I designed for the Zeltweg airfield, though I did it in high school without satellite imagery. Surely proportions aren't 100% real.

Anticlockwise, about 6 km long. Date: early 2009.

My redesign on the Jarama.

A bit longer, a slower last coner. The track should be slightly widened, but just a bit. Date: early 2009.

My take on the Brands Hatch.

Slightly longer, too. The old layout, of course, will be always available, since I agree it's an incredible layout. But that didn't prevent me from Tilkeing it. Date: early 2009.

That's all for now, more tomorrow. What do you guys think?

[JJMonty]

You really can't tell how crappy the image really looks until you see it out of the iPod and on your screen. I'll scan them tomorrow, but here are a few drawings from my high-school time.

This is an argentine track-city very much like LeMans, honouring the greatest F1-golden-era driver and, in my opinion, the second-best ever, Juan Manuel Fangio. It's called "Ciudad Fangio"

Clockwise, about 7 km long. Date: 15.9.08

This is a completely new track to develop where the old twisty Bremgarten was. Although there is a ban on racing in Switzerland since cars are not allowed to do more than 120 kph in the whole country, not only on public roads. So maybe this should be done somewhere else... It's a Tilkeish design but more human than the Hockenheimring.

Clockwise, about 4.5 km long. Date: (S.Hemisphere) winter 2009.

This is a racetrack that's meant to be driven in any direction, in any of the many variations. The pit building is that barely visible rectangle in the lowermost part of the image. This was done during a maths class, so it's not very tidy. It's supposed to be inside a dense forest. Some corner complexes were done quickly and badly. I want ideas, guys.

Clockwise and anticlockwise, about 5 km long in the largest layout. Date: somewhere in 2007.

This is a track that combines the most challenging corners of Imola (Tosa, Piratella, Acqua Minarale) with a stadium racetrack that can be used with two immense straights for testing or in the infield variations. Maybe an additional bypass could be installed so that both pitlanes can be used simultaneously. No idea where it could be placed. The track is situated inside the black outlines. The white rectangles are either pit buildings or grandstands. Gravel traps have different colours.

Anticlockwise, about 8 km long in the largest layout. Date: late 2009.

This is the original layout I designed for the Zeltweg airfield, though I did it in high school without satellite imagery. Surely proportions aren't 100% real.

Anticlockwise, about 6 km long. Date: early 2009.

My redesign on the Jarama.

A bit longer, a slower last coner. The track should be slightly widened, but just a bit. Date: early 2009.

My take on the Brands Hatch.

Slightly longer, too. The old layout, of course, will be always available, since I agree it's an incredible layout. But that didn't prevent me from Tilkeing it. Date: early 2009.

That's all for now, more tomorrow. What do you guys think?

I thought Switzerland liffted the ban a couple of years ago

I like quite a few of those tracks For Jarama, I would choose the first extension but leave the last corner to give the track a bit of flow - otherwise it becomes too much of a "stop, start" "stop, start" nature.

Why are people wanting to alter Brands Hatch? It might be short and the layout doesn't look great, but look at the undulations in those corners! It is a "balls out circuit"!

Telling people to change Brands Hatch's layout is like telling your Gran her cooking is "good, but could be improved if you did this and that..." i.e. you would never dream of doing it because you can't better perfection! If it aint broke, why fix it? (And that final quote would be my ultimate advice to Tilke! )

[Captain Hammer]

Here's a few re-imaginings of existing circuits.

Brands Hatch

http://www.gmap-pedometer.com/?r=5709038

Abber Dabby

http://www.gmap-pedometer.com/?r=5709046

Fuji

http://www.gmap-pedometer.com/?r=5709059

Nurburgring

http://www.gmap-pedometer.com/?r=5709061

Zandvoort

http://www.gmap-pedometer.com/?r=5709072

[Nuppiz]

I thought Switzerland liffted the ban a couple of years ago

No, they didn't. The law which would've allowed motorsports to take place in Switzerland was passed by the lower house of their parliament, but was voted down by the upper house.

However, there's this interesting piece about Swiss Traffic Code I found:

Art. 52

Sportliche Veranstaltungen

1 Öffentliche Rundstreckenrennen mit Motorfahrzeugen sind verboten. Der Bundesrat kann einzelne Ausnahmen gestatten oder das Verbot auf andere Arten von Motorfahrzeugrennen ausdehnen; er berücksichtigt bei seinem Entscheid vor allem die Erfordernisse der Verkehrssicherheit und der Verkehrserziehung.
------------
3 Die Bewilligung darf nur erteilt werden, wenn:

a.
die Veranstalter Gewähr bieten für einwandfreie Durchführung;
b.
die Rücksicht auf den Verkehr es gestattet;
c.
die nötigen Sicherheitsmassnahmen getroffen werden;
d.
die vorgeschriebene Haftpflichtversicherung abgeschlossen ist.

4 Die kantonale Behörde kann Ausnahmen von den Verkehrsvorschriften gestatten, wenn genügende Sicherheitsmassnahmen getroffen sind.

Which roughly translates to:

Article 52

Sports Events

1 Public racing with motor vehicles are banned. The Federal Council may allow individual exceptions or extend the ban to other types of motor vehicle races if certain aspects are considered in the decisionmaking, especially the requirements of traffic safety and traffic education.
---------------
3 The permit may only be issued if:

a
The organizers guarantee the event is organized properly;
b.
the traffic is taken into consideration;
c.
the necessary safety measures are taken;
d
the mandatory liability insurance is complete.

4 The cantonal authority may allow exceptions to the traffic regulations if adequate security measures are taken.

[roblo97]

Here's a few re-imaginings of existing circuits.


Zandvoort

http://www.gmap-pedometer.com/?r=5709072

how dare thee remove the rob slotemaker bocht

HWNSNBM is ashamed and might arm me with papayas for that track

[Captain Hammer]

Please. I invented hurling papayas at people.

And I specifically chose them because they are my anti-Kryptonite. All you will achieve by throwing them at me is making me stronger.

[dr-baker]

My take on the Brands Hatch.

Slightly longer, too. The old layout, of course, will be always available, since I agree it's an incredible layout. But that didn't prevent me from Tilkeing it. Date: early 2009.

That's all for now, more tomorrow. What do you guys think?

Why are people wanting to alter Brands Hatch? It might be short and the layout doesn't look great, but look at the undulations in those corners! It is a "balls out circuit"!

Telling people to change Brands Hatch's layout is like telling your Gran her cooking is "good, but could be improved if you did this and that..." i.e. you would never dream of doing it because you can't better perfection! If it aint broke, why fix it? (And that final quote would be my ultimate advice to Tilke! )

My views exactly as my rant elsewhere (can be found higher up on this page) proves... And guess what I thought when I saw this in the very next post!:

Here's a few re-imaginings of existing circuits.

Brands Hatch

http://www.gmap-pedometer.com/?r=5709038

Although, to be honest, you did leave the best corners alone, and Surtees like that may possibly be better, but I'll reserve judgement on it.

[roblo97]

Please. I invented hurling papayas at people.

And I specifically chose them because they are my anti-Kryptonite. All you will achieve by throwing them at me is making me stronger.

fine then i shall use carrots or pasley or pineapple or all three
also if it ain't broke, don't fix it

[Phoenix]

Please. I invented hurling papayas at people.

And I specifically chose them because they are my anti-Kryptonite. All you will achieve by throwing them at me is making me stronger.

Pardon me? I created the whole papaya meme here, back in 2009

[dr-baker]

Please. I invented hurling papayas at people.

And I specifically chose them because they are my anti-Kryptonite. All you will achieve by throwing them at me is making me stronger.

Pardon me? I created the whole papaya meme here, back in 2009

Typing papaya into the search box at the top proves Phoenix to be correct, and that kostas22 appears to be the first to comment on the papaya attack. I didn't think the Captain had anything to do with it...

[roblo97]

portero delos funes
http://www.gmap-pedometer.com?r=5709475

brands hatch TILKE STYLE
http://www.gmap-pedometer.com/?r=5709204
i basically ruined the track so it now looks like how herman tilke would ruin it
all the nice fast corners are gone and stupid little chcanes are in there place


100 posts how did that happen then

[dr-baker]

brands hatch TILKE STYLE
http://www.gmap-pedometer.com/?r=5709204
i basically ruined the track so it now looks like how herman tilke would ruin it
all the nice fast corners are gone and stupid little chcanes are in there place

Now that really is ruined.

Even this is blasphemous, but it puts the challenge of the Surtees/McLaren/Clearways/Clark altogether into the GP track. That complex, plus Paddock Hill bend diving towards Druids, is what Brands great. Graham Hill bend is the only bend that I am a bit indifferent about, but I don't like that I turned it into a hairpin. But to get the whole second-half of the Indy track into the GP track, it is one of the few options, unless you go Suzuka-style.

[roblo97]

brands hatch TILKE STYLE
http://www.gmap-pedometer.com/?r=5709204
i basically ruined the track so it now looks like how herman tilke would ruin it
all the nice fast corners are gone and stupid little chcanes are in there place

Now that really is ruined.

Even this is blasphemous, but it puts the challenge of the Surtees/McLaren/Clearways/Clark altogether into the GP track. That complex, plus Paddock Hill bend diving towards Druids, is what Brands great. Graham Hill bend is the only bend that I am a bit indifferent about, but I don't like that I turned it into a hairpin. But to get the whole second-half of the Indy track into the GP track, it is one of the few options, unless you go Suzuka-style.

you do know that i did say in the track name

TILKE STYLE

[UncreativeUsername37]

Your whole chicane-filled, turns made angular thing is funny, but realistically I think it would look more like this:
http://www.gmap-pedometer.com/?r=5709627

Includes:
Home straight with sharp turn at the end (turn 1)
Mandatory double hairpin (turns 2 and 3)
Boring angular left-hander (turn 4)
Boring angular right-hander (turn 5)
Mandatory double sweeping corners (turns 6 and 7)
Mandatory double-apex corner* (turns 8 and 9)
Remaining bit of old track (turn 10)
Very slight kink that gets its own turn number (turn 11)
Copy of earlier corner (turn 12)
Hairpin with a slight curve before it (turn 13)
Old track (turn 14)
Boring angular right-hander (also makes grid straight^) (turn 15)
*It follows the old track, though, so I guess it's okay.
^I actually like the straightening aspect. I'm not a fan of the old, curved grid at Spa. The point is that it could've been a slightly more flowing turn.

[legendari25]

Here's a few re-imaginings of existing circuits.

Brands Hatch

http://www.gmap-pedometer.com/?r=5709038

Abber Dabby

http://www.gmap-pedometer.com/?r=5709046

Fuji

http://www.gmap-pedometer.com/?r=5709059

Nurburgring

http://www.gmap-pedometer.com/?r=5709061

Zandvoort

http://www.gmap-pedometer.com/?r=5709072

I like your Brands Hatch, I love your Fuji. I like roblomas' Zandvoort better. I like the first corner at the Nürburgring, but I still think the old one was better. What you did in the Dunlop corner is a bit shocking, but for another track might do, like that stupid Sepang everyone seems to like. The last sector is very, very cool. Abu Dhabi looks good, but rebuilt at great length for no good reason, since corners are exactly the same to those already existing.

From your designs and critics I can only assume you like tracks better if corners are bypassed. Works for me in Tilke's stupid, disgusting Fuji, let me tell you. That leads me, again, to ask what's wrong with my Imola (and bearing in mind I never said it was revolutionary)...

[legendari25]

For Abu Dhabi I would propose something like this:



which already looks far more exciting than Tilke's, but I would add an exciting feature: Non-plastified sand:



which should make the race very interesting, as cars try to avoid dancing sandtraps, and therefore have to find new and exciting racing lines. That, with this, could be good for Bahrain:



(Yes, just went for "desert road" on google images... )

This is a racetrack here in Argentina, in Saint Louis (San Luis) province, where Zonda winds that gave the name to Pagani's creation (to be called Fangio had he not died before the project was ready) come from. No, Fangio is not from San Luis. However, this track is fantastic. I'll drive it for real in december, friends of mine have won races there, and we all agree that it is fantastic, specially when you leave that overpass section (the track is anti-clockwise), after the new chicane. Alongside the green hell and the super fast old Monza, I dare state this is one of the greatest tracks in the world, even having driven in the Buenos Aires track... The most challenging spot is tackling the overpass downhill (to the right). I only know one person that always cornered flat-out there....



Just wanted to share this with you. Let's see if somebody comes up with a good idea (like introducing it to the F1 calendar )

[roblo97]

my take on the ostereichring
http://www.gmap-pedometer.com/?r=5689270
bosch kurve is back

portero de los funes
http://www.gmap-pedometer.com/?r=5709475
love to hear what dario thinks about what i've done to one of the best circuits to be built in the last decade

korea international circuit
http://www.gmap-pedometer.com/?r=5710530
track is to slow IMO so i've added some fast corners and added some gangnam style

think thats all for now

[Ataxia]

I've given Bahrain a little revamp, mainly by opening up some of the corners and decreasing the Tilke-ness of it. The opening corners mimic Melbourne and Barcelona to some degree, before coming to a Rivazza-like corner. This leads onto an imitation of Maggots and Becketts, with the added challenge of a greater downhill gradient.

A Donington-style hairpin follows this, offering a good chance to pass before jumping onto another straight. A large-radius 90-degree corner follows, allowing extra speed into what could become a stadium section. A double-apex right hander follows and leads to a slight kink which deviates momentarily onto the original track. A nice, friendly right-hand corner ends the lap. The start/finish straight is shortened to allow for some shorter gear ratios.

http://www.gmap-pedometer.com/?r=5711250

[roblo97]

silverstone
http://www.gmap-pedometer.com?r=5712140
bit like the old circuit without the chcane at abbey and a slightley faster complex at the end

rouen
http://www.gmap-pedometer.com/?r=5712125
with 87 meters of elevation change one to sort the men from the boys

port imperial
http://www.gmap-pedometer.com/?r=5712121
my take on an epic street circuit which is fast and encredibly hilly can't wait for this in 2014 because bernie has postponed it
feedback welcomed

enjoy

roblomas52

[legendari25]

Rob Lomas, you're very good. And with only 15 (if true) you should aim at some civil engineering future. Maybe Bernie is dead by then (although I doubt it) and Tilke's monopoly is no more. Me, I like designing stuff but I rather drive.

Does anybody master any track software like Bob's Track Builder? (Reminds me of Bob's Country Bunker from Blues Brothers) I'm no pro, and it'll take me a while to learn properly. We need someone to design the tracks here so we can drive them and give some proper definitive feedback.

Oh, I forgot: Korea is much better, but I still think that sausage corner shouldn't be there. The rest is looking much better.

[Captain Hammer]

Sorry, Rob, but I'm not a fan - all you're doing is reviving old circuits with only minor changes, and then claiming that they're something new.

[Londoner]

Sorry, Rob, but I'm not a fan - all you're doing is reviving old circuits with only minor changes, and then claiming that they're something new.

But you don't like Kamui, therefore your opinion is invalid.

I think they're pretty damn good circuits. Keep up the good work.

[Salamander]

Sorry, Rob, but I'm not a fan - all you're doing is reviving old circuits with only minor changes, and then claiming that they're something new.

But you don't like Kamui, therefore your opinion is invalid.

I think they're pretty damn good circuits. Keep up the good work.

I'm frankly inclined to agree with the Captain here. A lot of the change's Rob's making just seem to be change for change's sake.

[girry]

Tbf Rob never claimed they're something 'new' or 'sensational'. But yes, most of those seem just like ... doing it differently only for change's sake.

I'm going to post some of mine soon, expecting some harsh criticism.

[solarcold]

Here's a new project I'm working at: an imaginary Faroe Islands Grand Prix Circuit.
There will be a tunnel going under between the Mazzacane and Diniz turns. The Twin Straights will be very close and divided by the walls low enough to see the cars on the other straight driving fast in the opposite direction.