Unpopular F1 opinions

[mario]

Was it actually classified? Unlike Le Mans?

No, it wasn't. Against who should it be classified anyway?

I personally hate the DW. To me it a big scam. Its hardly innovative at all. Its a lightweight car with ground effect, so its basically every Indycar and Group C car from 1980-1997 or so. And its phallic shape is not innovative (or good looking) as salt flat cars had that shape in the '40s and '50s. Yes its weird rear-end is fairly novel, but no one understands how it works, save for James May. And the "Nissan DeltaWing" is an Aston Martin with a Chevy engine. What the bathplug?

I agree with you that a lightweight, ground effect car is hardly innovative. BUT the Delta Wing manages to achieve similar speeds than others, without the downforce race cars use through their wings.

Technically, the fact that they have achieved the performance figures that they claimed is respectable enough, but on the other hand the car does come across as something of a technical dead end. By the admission of the designers behind the concept, the overall nature of the car is completely irrelevant and impractical for passenger cars, rather limiting the amount of technological transfer that could actually occur.
Furthermore, in many ways the DeltaWing has been the beneficiary of road car technology, rather than promoting it - the engine itself uses fuel injection technology that Nissan started developing back in the 1990's (whilst Audi had a quite sophisticated high pressure direct fuel injection system on the R8 over a decade ago), so in that sense it isn't really helping promote new technologies.

[Wallio]

Fair points, and yes the Indycar owners are whinny basterds, but the current parts situation has come about from their own doing. They rejected aero-kits for 2013 and 2013 (and now that Randy's gone permanently) and companies like Lola ans Swift have no interest building parts for a Dallara that they will get no credit for (if the new aero kits would have come in cars would be Dallara-Hondas or Swift Chevys, but now they are just Dallaras) and make little money off of (the spares prices are actually cheaper than the old crapboxes, despite owner protests).

Absolutely! In fact, they could have Lolas, Swifts, Dallaras and maybe the DeltaWing in IndyCar, but the owner wanted a single-spec car so much. It gets even funnier, when you consider that some owners wanted the Lola, some the Swift and so on.

As for running the DW out of the box, you may get your wish. Part of Don Panoz selling out to NASCAR was they had to accomodate the DW in the merged Grand-Am. However, NASCAR wants less classes not more, and the rumors are the DW class will be added to the merged LMPC/DP class. The possibility also exsists that LMP2 will be added to this generic protoype class, but thats more unlikely.

At least we can see, how the DeltaWing can fare against DPs and LMPs. Even though it will probably involve lots of BoP.

Here's another unpopular opinion: The only one, who can really fix IndyCar and the speedway will be someone with lots of money. With Roger Penske not really wanting to do any significant investments (Due to age...I guess), the only one can be just NASCAR. Given where IndyCar is now, they can just profit from jumping under the NASCAR umbrella. NASCAR has superior marketing possibilities, owns almost all important tracks in the USA, and probably isn't so stupid to remove the open-wheelers from the 500.

Let's face it, all North American racing (Bar international series like F1, MotoGP or V8 Supercars) will be under the NASCAR banner in the future. The stock cars will always be the #1 for NASCAR, of course. But other series may grow and thrive as well in the future. Besides, NASCAR isn't that different from the FIA anymore, in my opinion.

And even international series are "going to the dark side" as NASCAR is the rights holder/sanctioning body for next years DTM USA! BWAHAHAHA

[pasta_maldonado]

Fair points, and yes the Indycar owners are whinny basterds, but the current parts situation has come about from their own doing. They rejected aero-kits for 2013 and 2013 (and now that Randy's gone permanently) and companies like Lola ans Swift have no interest building parts for a Dallara that they will get no credit for (if the new aero kits would have come in cars would be Dallara-Hondas or Swift Chevys, but now they are just Dallaras) and make little money off of (the spares prices are actually cheaper than the old crapboxes, despite owner protests).

Absolutely! In fact, they could have Lolas, Swifts, Dallaras and maybe the DeltaWing in IndyCar, but the owner wanted a single-spec car so much. It gets even funnier, when you consider that some owners wanted the Lola, some the Swift and so on.

As for running the DW out of the box, you may get your wish. Part of Don Panoz selling out to NASCAR was they had to accomodate the DW in the merged Grand-Am. However, NASCAR wants less classes not more, and the rumors are the DW class will be added to the merged LMPC/DP class. The possibility also exsists that LMP2 will be added to this generic protoype class, but thats more unlikely.

At least we can see, how the DeltaWing can fare against DPs and LMPs. Even though it will probably involve lots of BoP.

Here's another unpopular opinion: The only one, who can really fix IndyCar and the speedway will be someone with lots of money. With Roger Penske not really wanting to do any significant investments (Due to age...I guess), the only one can be just NASCAR. Given where IndyCar is now, they can just profit from jumping under the NASCAR umbrella. NASCAR has superior marketing possibilities, owns almost all important tracks in the USA, and probably isn't so stupid to remove the open-wheelers from the 500.

Let's face it, all North American racing (Bar international series like F1, MotoGP or V8 Supercars) will be under the NASCAR banner in the future. The stock cars will always be the #1 for NASCAR, of course. But other series may grow and thrive as well in the future. Besides, NASCAR isn't that different from the FIA anymore, in my opinion.

And even international series are "going to the dark side" as NASCAR is the rights holder/sanctioning body for next years DTM USA! BWAHAHAHA

NASCAR is not motorsport.

[Salamander]

NASCAR is not motorsport.

Yes it is. You might not like it, but it's as much motorsport as every other discipline.

[Wallio]

NASCAR is not motorsport.

If you are referring to the sanctioning body itself, and its rulebook written in pencil, I agree and would say thats not unpopular at all (scary for an American) but for whatever reason (size and fiscal sability I'm guessing) it is being regarded as legitimate. Grand-Am had a fairly close (by USA standards) relansonship with the FIA, and now the ACO in some form with the merger (the merged series will allegedly still send team to Le Mans, unless your a DP or DW) and as I mentioned, the Frances brought DTM here and believe it or not, are working on bring over a Super GT USA series. Which would be epic.

[pasta_maldonado]

NASCAR is not motorsport.

If you are referring to the sanctioning body itself, and its rulebook written in pencil, I agree and would say thats not unpopular at all (scary for an American) but for whatever reason (size and fiscal sability I'm guessing) it is being regarded as legitimate. Grand-Am had a fairly close (by USA standards) relansonship with the FIA, and now the ACO in some form with the merger (the merged series will allegedly still send team to Le Mans, unless your a DP or DW) and as I mentioned, the Frances brought DTM here and believe it or not, are working on bring over a Super GT USA series. Which would be epic.

Maybe I was a little childish on that one. I like some aspects of NASCAR and i dislike others. The close racin is fantastic,as are some of the tracks they race on. But unfortunately the negatives for me outweigh the positives. I don't like the cars - they are too big,clunky and outdated. I don't like the governing body for the rules they produce (like that rule that allows drivets to lunt others of the track!). The fans, in general, don't have a clue about anything and watch NASCAR because of the crashes.

NASCAR could be improved by just changing a few things. first, get rid of those tiny little ovals. Second, allow the cars to be lighter and have more downforce for road circuits. Third, add more road circuits. Four, ditch The Chase, the ridiculous points system and all those ridiculous rules

[Wallio]

NASCAR is not motorsport.

If you are referring to the sanctioning body itself, and its rulebook written in pencil, I agree and would say thats not unpopular at all (scary for an American) but for whatever reason (size and fiscal sability I'm guessing) it is being regarded as legitimate. Grand-Am had a fairly close (by USA standards) relansonship with the FIA, and now the ACO in some form with the merger (the merged series will allegedly still send team to Le Mans, unless your a DP or DW) and as I mentioned, the Frances brought DTM here and believe it or not, are working on bring over a Super GT USA series. Which would be epic.

Maybe I was a little childish on that one. I like some aspects of NASCAR and i dislike others. The close racin is fantastic,as are some of the tracks they race on. But unfortunately the negatives for me outweigh the positives. I don't like the cars - they are too big,clunky and outdated. I don't like the governing body for the rules they produce (like that rule that allows drivets to lunt others of the track!). The fans, in general, don't have a clue about anything and watch NASCAR because of the crashes.

NASCAR could be improved by just changing a few things. first, get rid of those tiny little ovals. Second, allow the cars to be lighter and have more downforce for road circuits. Third, add more road circuits. Four, ditch The Chase, the ridiculous points system and all those ridiculous rules

Allow me to continue railroading this topic

The Car-Of-The-Day-After-Tommorrow that will race next year, will be lighter (nearly 400lbs lighter) and feature fatter, softer tyres. It will have less downforce tho, as it is being designed to produce more mechicanical grip, and be less aero dependant. It also will have EFI so it is now right out of the mid-'60s instead of the '40s . Seriously though, I agree with ditching the Chase (95% of NASCAR fans do actually) and I'd like to see at least 5 more road courses (NASCAR is supposedly considering adding a third, but I doubt it), and 5 dirt ovals. But I'm werid.....

[Ferrarist]

Technically, the fact that they have achieved the performance figures that they claimed is respectable enough, but on the other hand the car does come across as something of a technical dead end. By the admission of the designers behind the concept, the overall nature of the car is completely irrelevant and impractical for passenger cars, rather limiting the amount of technological transfer that could actually occur.
Furthermore, in many ways the DeltaWing has been the beneficiary of road car technology, rather than promoting it - the engine itself uses fuel injection technology that Nissan started developing back in the 1990's (whilst Audi had a quite sophisticated high pressure direct fuel injection system on the R8 over a decade ago), so in that sense it isn't really helping promote new technologies.

Okay, I'm willing to accept this explanation. Still, the DeltaWing just looks different from today's formula cars, and my point was that at least someone was trying to do things differently.

And even international series are "going to the dark side" as NASCAR is the rights holder/sanctioning body for next years DTM USA! BWAHAHAHA

The DTM-USA thing won't happen for now. After all, Grand-AM and ALMS will merge, so they have better things to do with their time.

[Wallio]

Technically, the fact that they have achieved the performance figures that they claimed is respectable enough, but on the other hand the car does come across as something of a technical dead end. By the admission of the designers behind the concept, the overall nature of the car is completely irrelevant and impractical for passenger cars, rather limiting the amount of technological transfer that could actually occur.
Furthermore, in many ways the DeltaWing has been the beneficiary of road car technology, rather than promoting it - the engine itself uses fuel injection technology that Nissan started developing back in the 1990's (whilst Audi had a quite sophisticated high pressure direct fuel injection system on the R8 over a decade ago), so in that sense it isn't really helping promote new technologies.

Okay, I'm willing to accept this explanation. Still, the DeltaWing just looks different from today's formula cars, and my point was that at least someone was trying to do things differently.

And even international series are "going to the dark side" as NASCAR is the rights holder/sanctioning body for next years DTM USA! BWAHAHAHA

The DTM-USA thing won't happen for now. After all, Grand-AM and ALMS will merge, so they have better things to do with their time.

Oh ye of little faith, rumors are it will be the third class in the new Grand-Am.

[Gerudo Dragon]

BAR were even worse in 2005 than in 1999.

[Londoner]

BAR were even worse in 2005 than in 1999.

[Wallio]

BAR were even worse in 2007 than in 1999.

Fixed

[takagi_for_the_win]

BAR were even worse in 2008 than in 1999.

Fixed

[Aerospeed]

BAR were even worse in 1998 than in 1999.

Fixed, end of.

[Wallio]

Let's face it, all North American racing (Bar international series like F1, MotoGP or V8 Supercars) will be under the NASCAR banner in the future. The stock cars will always be the #1 for NASCAR, of course. But other series may grow and thrive as well in the future. Besides, NASCAR isn't that different from the FIA anymore, in my opinion.

I want to expand on this if I may. Ferrarist here has actually hit on a very good point. NASCAR actually more or less owns all American racing already. If you break it down, its quite scary actually..... [LONG POST WARNING}

Car-Based Racing Series:

NASCAR Sprint Cup Series
NASCAR Nationwide Series
NASCAR Camping World Truck Series
NASCAR Whelen Modified Series
NASCAR K&N East Series
NASCAR K&N West Series
ARCA Re-Max Series
Rolex Grand-American Sports Car Series
The American Le Mans Series
Koni Challenge*
DTM USA**
Super GT USA***
EDIT: I did miss at least two:
EuroCar Open Series
EuroCar Elite Series

Motorcycle Based Series (NASCAR owns the AMA)

AMA Superbike Championship
AMA Supersport Championship
AMA Formula Xtreme
AMA Supercross Championship
AMA Motocross Championship
AMA Grand National Championship

Racetracks Owned by NASCAR

Auto Club Speedway
Chicagoland Speedway
Darlington Raceway
Daytona International Speedway
Homestead-Miami Speedway
Martinsville Speedway
Michigan International Speedway
Phoenix International Raceway
Richmond International Raceway
Route 66 Raceway
Talladega Superspeedway
Watkins Glen International
Road Atlanta
Sebring International Raceway
Nazareth Speedway****
North Carolina Speedway****
Pikes Peak International Raceway****
Tucson Raceway Park****

Many of these, such as Daytona and Homestead have road courses too, and others such as Route 66, include dragstrips.

In addition to all this NASCAR has a very close relasionship to the NHRA who sanctions 95% of all drag racing in America. The two bodies do some cross promoting, and race on each others tracks. A few years ago when the NHRA was up for sale, NASCAR was rumored to be interested. They could easily buy it in another 10-15 years, if it keeps losing money at their current rate, they will be for sale again.

So now I'm sure I missed a few series in there, but that gives you a pretty good idea of their dominance. there are only really three major sanctioning bodies holding on still:

SCCA (club level, only major series are the World Challenge and Rallye America)
NHRA (we already discussed this)
INDYCAR (has IICS, Indy Lights, USF2000, USAC Triple Crown)
EDIT: I forgot World of Outlaws (WoO Sprints, Winged Sprints, Late Models, Midgets)

Really Indycar is the only holdout. And dare I say it Ferraist is right, and NASCAR probably would be the way to go. That would allow Indy to be a separate race with separte rules again, which is what most people want IMO. And if that happens, and if the NHRA sells out (which as I said, is actually quite possible) NASCAR would own 85%-90% of the US racing market. Try sleeping tonight knowing that!

Sorry for the long post, but really "the evil empire" is staggering!


Notes:
*I believe this was included in the ALMS deal, but I may be wrong.
**To start in 2013 or 2014, possibily as part of the new Grand-Am
***Super GT USA is just a rumored 2015 series for now, but NASCAR does have its rights, IF/When it happens.
****Denotes inactive track.

[takagi_for_the_win]

BAR were even worse in 1998 than in 1999.

Fixed, end of.

I doubt even HWNSNBM could have dragged that car to the points, which is incredible, given that we've established he could win championships in Trabants, etc

[Aerospeed]

BAR were even worse in 1998 than in 1999.

Fixed, end of.

I doubt even HWNSNBM could have dragged that car to the points, which is incredible, given that we've established he could win championships in Trabants, etc

I agree, even the 1999 BAR was semi-competitive.

[Shadaza]

Vettel is one of the most talented F1 drivers of all time. Certainly better than any of the Williams 90's champions (bar Prost).

[pasta_maldonado]

Vettel is one of the most talented F1 drivers of all time. Certainly better than any of the Williams 90's champions (bar Prost).

I still don't feel like he has adequetly displayed any talent. Until we see him win a championship or several races in a car that doesn't deserve to I can't rate Vettel as an exceptionally talented driver. Talented, yes, but exceptionally talented?

[UncreativeUsername37]

Vettel is one of the most talented F1 drivers of all time. Certainly better than any of the Williams 90's champions (bar Prost).

I agree. People can complain that he doesn't outperform his car or whatever, but that's because he has the best car. Just look at what he did at his other two teams.

[Salamander]

Vettel is one of the most talented F1 drivers of all time. Certainly better than any of the Williams 90's champions (bar Prost).

I agree. People can complain that he doesn't outperform his car or whatever, but that's because he has the best car. Just look at what he did at his other two teams.

At BMW Sauber, he did nothing that Kubica didn't do better. At Toro Rosso, he performed very well, but keep in mind in the latter half of 2008 that that car was generally the 4th or 5th best. His win in Monza was down to having a wet setup while everyone else went for a dry setup. The thing is, we don't really know how he'll react to being pushed back down the grid now he's been on top, like Hamilton was in the beginning of 2009. Would he rise to the challenge like Alonso did for Renault in 2008 and 2009, or will he just phone it in like Hamilton did? Can't say for sure unless it happens, and it's an important measure for a good driver - now that they know victory, can they handle defeat?

[Ferrarist]

@Wallio: Does NASCAR really run ARCA? I thought that ARCA was independent from NASCAR. Also, there won't be a DTM AND a SuperGT series. DTM and SuperGT merged their rules, so they'll run the same cars from 2014 on. That means that NASCAR would just need to integrate one series into its line-up.

Nonetheless, it's impressive how large NASCAR is. But I wonder what will happen to them, once they peak in their size.

[girry]

@Blindcavesalamander: don't want to take part in vettel-great-or-not fights, but 'he didn't do anything better than Kubica at BMW Sauber', when he barely had any in car experience and only filled in for 1 race, is not a really good argument.

[Salamander]

@Blindcavesalamander: don't want to take part in vettel-great-or-not fights, but 'he didn't do anything better than Kubica at BMW Sauber', when he barely had any in car experience and only filled in for 1 race, is not a really good argument.

What are you talking about? He was their 3rd driver, back when they were allowed to run one in practice sessions. Kubica regularly topped the sheets in that position, even on tracks he hadn't even seen before. Vettel, as I recall, didn't. Or at least, didn't do it as often.

[Aerospeed]

James Allen needs to return to commentating. Now.

[Cynon]

Vettel is one of the most talented F1 drivers of all time. Certainly better than any of the Williams 90's champions (bar Prost).

I agree. People can complain that he doesn't outperform his car or whatever, but that's because he has the best car. Just look at what he did at his other two teams.

The average driver would be where Webber is, because Webber really is just an average driver.

[simonracer]

@Wallio: Does NASCAR really run ARCA? I thought that ARCA was independent from NASCAR. Also, there won't be a DTM AND a SuperGT series. DTM and SuperGT merged their rules, so they'll run the same cars from 2014 on. That means that NASCAR would just need to integrate one series into its line-up.

Nonetheless, it's impressive how large NASCAR is. But I wonder what will happen to them, once they peak in their size.

NASCAR does not own ARCA. ARCA stands for the Automobile Racing Club of America, which is a separate organization, and will be for the foreseeable future. They run their own tracks (I think the main one is Toledo, out in Ohio) and the like, and a few series themselves. They have their Re-Max series, which is their main championship, a truck series, and a late model series, I think. ARCA is however linked fairly closely with NASCAR.

NASCAR buying out Indycar would be a bad idea. I doubt NASCAR really cares about Indycar. Indycar is simply a rival to them. For years and years, they strived to be better then Indycar, and its predecessors. And their main attention will always be focused on the Sprint Cup Series.

[takagi_for_the_win]

Vettel is one of the most talented F1 drivers of all time. Certainly better than any of the Williams 90's champions (bar Prost).

Better than Hill and Villeneuve? Yes. Better than Mansell? Doubtful. Better than Prost? No way. For me, the only way Vettel will join the pantheon would be to win the championship or to come mighty close while driving an inferior car, or to gain the immense respect of one the true greats i.e. Senna had great respect for Mansell, even though Mansells only title was a cakewalk, and Schumi had massive respect for Hakkinen, even though Hakkinens titles were won with Neweymobiles. Just my 2 cents

[pasta_maldonado]

Vettel is one of the most talented F1 drivers of all time. Certainly better than any of the Williams 90's champions (bar Prost).

Better than Hill and Villeneuve? Yes. Better than Mansell? Doubtful. Better than Prost? No way. For me, the only way Vettel will join the pantheon would be to win the championship or to come mighty close while driving an inferior car, or to gain the immense respect of one the true greats i.e. Senna had great respect for Mansell, even though Mansells only title was a cakewalk, and Schumi had massive respect for Hakkinen, even though Hakkinens titles were won with Neweymobiles. Just my 2 cents

Hakkinen didn't have it easy, despite driving Newey designed cars. The 1998 McLaren would have walked the field if the innovative seperate brake system hadn't been banned when the FIA unwrapped the banhammer from it's box, and then he had to fight Schumacher who was outdriving that year's Ferrari (which wasn't a fundamentally poor car, but slower than the McLaren IMO). In 1999, the Ferrari was much better, almost on a par or perhaps even better than the McLaren, and even though Schumacher's injuries ruled out his biggest challenger, Irvine put in a better title challenge than anyone thought he was ever capable of to take it down to the wire.

Vettel's 2010 challenge was a good campaign when he was behind till the end, but 2009 could have been better (for instance, capitalising on Brawn's lack of mid season pace better), and the 2011 German Grand Prix and the 2010 Belgian Grand Prix proved that when Vettel is compromised by the car's performance or his own, his drives suffer.

However, this year has proved that Vettel has become more of an all round driver, but I still think that it's a little too early still to compare him to established greats (such as Senna and Prost) and because he still, while being a great driver, isn't good enough in all the skill sets required to be labelled as an 'all-time great'.

[James1978]

Vettel has proved he is a bit better than Tonio Liuzzi, Sebastien Bourdais and Mark Webber. That's all.

I would like to see him at Ferrari with Alonso - if he goes there and beats or at least equals Alonso then my respect for him would shoot up.

[TomWazzleshaw]

Vettel has proved he is a bit better than Tonio Liuzzi, Sebastien Bourdais and Mark Webber. That's all.

I would like to see him at Ferrari with Alonso - if he goes there and beats or at least equals Alonso then my respect for him would shoot up.

Since when was being better than Liuzzi an achievement?

[AdrianSutil]

Vettel has proved he is a bit better than Tonio Liuzzi, Sebastien Bourdais and Mark Webber. That's all.

I would like to see him at Ferrari with Alonso - if he goes there and beats or at least equals Alonso then my respect for him would shoot up.

Since when was being better than Liuzzi an achievement?

Like Sutil beating Albers in 2007. His demolition of him in the first half of the year pretty much secures him the FIndia drive in 08.

[roblo97]

Vettel is one of the most talented F1 drivers of all time. Certainly better than any of the Williams 90's champions (bar Prost).

I agree. People can complain that he doesn't outperform his car or whatever, but that's because he has the best car. Just look at what he did at his other two teams.

The average driver would be where Webber is, because Webber really is just an average driver.

Reminds me of what one of the Renault engineers said under the rostrum in suzuka 2005

'We've got a genius and a w@nker in our team"

[roblo97]

Prost was better than senna

[Klon]

Prost was better than senna

That cannot be an unpopular opinion because it's a fact.

[Dj_bereta]

A very, very unpopular one:

Button only won the title in 2009 because he was lucky. Barrichello had a lot of more mechanical problems than him and he suffered from Ross Brawn's crazy tatics. Barrichello could be the world champion of 2009, because he clearly faster than Jenson.

Also, Vettel and Webber were unlucky in that year.

[Aerospeed]

A very, very unpopular one:

Button only won the title in 2009 because he was lucky. Barrichello had a lot of more mechanical problems than him and he suffered from Ross Brawn's crazy tatics. Barrichello could be the world champion of 2009, because he clearly faster than Jenson.

Also, Vettel and Webber were unlucky in that year.

Agreed that Vettel and Webber were unlucky. And maybe the theory on Brawn's crazy tactics. (For all I care he should have been 2nd by a mile!) However, it is quite hard to beat someone after winning 6 of 7 races... and that takes talent.

[AdrianSutil]

A very, very unpopular one:

Button only won the title in 2009 because he was lucky. Barrichello had a lot of more mechanical problems than him and he suffered from Ross Brawn's crazy tatics. Barrichello could be the world champion of 2009, because he clearly faster than Jenson.

Also, Vettel and Webber were unlucky in that year.

Agreed that Vettel and Webber were unlucky. And maybe the theory on Brawn's crazy tactics. (For all I care he should have been 2nd by a mile!) However, it is quite hard to beat someone after winning 6 of 7 races... and that takes talent.

Or having the best DDD at the time. Or a chassis that was somehow made alarmingly competitive by the numpties at Honda. Or Ferrari and McLaren taking a step back in the first half.

[Wallio]

@Wallio: Does NASCAR really run ARCA? I thought that ARCA was independent from NASCAR. Also, there won't be a DTM AND a SuperGT series. DTM and SuperGT merged their rules, so they'll run the same cars from 2014 on. That means that NASCAR would just need to integrate one series into its line-up.

Nonetheless, it's impressive how large NASCAR is. But I wonder what will happen to them, once they peak in their size.

NASCAR does not own ARCA. ARCA stands for the Automobile Racing Club of America, which is a separate organization, and will be for the foreseeable future. They run their own tracks (I think the main one is Toledo, out in Ohio) and the like, and a few series themselves. They have their Re-Max series, which is their main championship, a truck series, and a late model series, I think. ARCA is however linked fairly closely with NASCAR.

NASCAR buying out Indycar would be a bad idea. I doubt NASCAR really cares about Indycar. Indycar is simply a rival to them. For years and years, they strived to be better then Indycar, and its predecessors. And their main attention will always be focused on the Sprint Cup Series.

My bad about ARCA, I know they race on several NASCAR tracks, and that several NASCAR teams have teams or partnerships in ARCA but yes they are a separate entity. See what happens when you assume.....


On to another unpopular opinion, The 2009 Red Bull was the best car that year. It was faster than both the Yota and Williams who had DDD's and even beat the Brawn in its "box-diffuser" spec. And when it was given a DDD it didn't improve that much. Certainly if the DDD had been hit with the banhammer, the Brawn walkover would have been replaced by a 2002-style Red Bull one.

[Gerudo Dragon]

Liuzzi is a good driver.