2012 Brazilian Grand Prix discussion thread

Ferrim · Post by **Ferrim** » 19 Nov 2012, 23:00

And here we go, for the final round of the season.

The current forecast is for heavy rain on Saturday and a decent chance of rain for Sunday.

I'm gonna make a prediction: Vettel will retire... and Alonso will finish 4th.

Aerospeed · Post by **Aerospeed** » 19 Nov 2012, 23:09

When was the last time we had rain in a race? Malaysia?

Jocke1 · Post by **Jocke1** » 19 Nov 2012, 23:22

It would be thrilling if we saw the 2003 Brazilian Grand Prix part II on Sunday.

the Masked Lapwing · Post by **the Masked Lapwing** » 19 Nov 2012, 23:27

Please, can no one say the r-word until after the race? Because every time the forecast predicts a wet race, it ends up bone dry.

Jocke1 · Post by **Jocke1** » 19 Nov 2012, 23:31

JeremyMcClean wrote:When was the last time we had rain in a race? Malaysia?

Last 5 rain races, unless I'm very much mistaken:

1. Malaysia 2012
2. Hungary 2011
3. Canada 2011
4. Korea 2010
5. Belgium 2010

S951 · Post by **S951** » 19 Nov 2012, 23:44

HRT will somehow score point jumping both Marussia & Catherham

James1978 · Post by **James1978** » 20 Nov 2012, 07:34

I just want to see Pirelli's green and blue marked tyres again - they look far better than the hards and mediums they seem obsessed with!

Shizuka · Post by **Shizuka** » 20 Nov 2012, 08:14

I have a feeling that good old Emmo will be the interviewer this weekend.

Jocke1 · Post by **Jocke1** » 20 Nov 2012, 13:36

I think Michael will finish 3rd, or I hope so at least. You heard it here first.
He deserves it.

AdrianSutil · Post by **AdrianSutil** » 20 Nov 2012, 13:38

I'm hoping Alonso wins the title (I'm no fanboy, he just deserves it more), Sauber jump Mercedes and Caterham score a point.

solarcold · Post by **solarcold** » 20 Nov 2012, 14:14

AdrianSutil wrote:I'm hoping Alonso wins the title (I'm no fanboy, he just deserves it more), Sauber jump Mercedes and HRT score a point.

Fixed

Salamander · Post by **Salamander** » 20 Nov 2012, 15:45

Jocke1 wrote:I think Michael will finish 3rd, or I hope so at least. You heard it here first.
He deserves it.

No he doesn't. Even if he did, I don't see Mercedes miraculously becoming not-shite.

Just to run down the possibilities for the championship:
If Alonso wins, Vettel must finish higher than 5th to win the title.
If Alonso finishes second, Vettel must finish higher than 8th to win the title.
If Alonso finishes third, Vettel must finish higher than 10th to win the title.
If Alonso finishes fourth or worse, Vettel will win the title.

FMecha · Post by **FMecha** » 21 Nov 2012, 03:54

Anyone expecting a Adelaide 1994 or Jerez 1997 MkII here? :twisted:

Ferrim · Post by **Ferrim** » 21 Nov 2012, 10:10

Not at all. It serves no purpose for Alonso, and I'm struggling to imagine a situation on which Vettel would need to do it, because it doesn't matter if Alonso is coming to overtake him, he would need to overtake more people in order to finish ahead anyway.

Maybe if we have a situation like 2008, most people stay out in spite of the rain, Vettel is running 4th but with the top three not too far ahead, Alonso is the only one who chooses to pit because only light rain is expected ("I've got nothing to lose!"), then it intensifies with two laps to go and Alonso comes like a rocket and looking like he will overtake everyone before the end of the race... but that looks extremely unlikely :lol:

and most people would pit for wet tyres anyway.

Benetton · Post by **Benetton** » 21 Nov 2012, 15:24

I'm looking forward to this race. It has been a great season so hopefully this race can be another Malaysia, Valencia, Abu Dhabi quality.

I have a gut feeling Alonso will win the title. I'm planning to bet 20 EUR for his championship.

Edit: Looking at this it will probably not just rain but pour in both sessions. http://www.mtv3.fi/saa/#maailman-saa/etelaamerikka Time is Helsinki time so GMT +3 I believe since it is Winter savings time here currently... So race time is around 20.

koza · Post by **koza** » 21 Nov 2012, 18:56

but that looks extremely unlikely :lol:

and most people would pit for wet tyres anyway.[/quote]
And for sure Vettel will, just to cover Alonso

Dj_bereta · Post by **Dj_bereta** » 21 Nov 2012, 20:48

I want to see Vettel and Alonso crashing with each other. The last title decision that ended in a crash was in 1997. F-1 needs a new one :twisted:

. I'm the only member of f1-rejects who don't want see Alonso champion? :lol:

also I wanted to see this Grand Prix from the circuit, but I'm out of money :cry:

. I live in a neighbor city of São Paulo and I don't take more than 2 hours from my house to the circuit.

Also, there's a little update about the weather. there's still a high chance of rain for the race, but the amount of rain expected for the sunday decreased: 47mm to 30mm. Rain over all day.

James1978 · Post by **James1978** » 21 Nov 2012, 21:41

Dj_bereta wrote:I want to see Vettel and Alonso crashing with each other. The last title decision that ended in a crash was in 1997. F-1 needs a new one . I'm the only member of f1-rejects who don't want see Alonso champion?

If you'd asked me that question at the start or middle of the year, I'd have agreed (I'd have preferred Webber, Kimi or either McLaren driver). Now it's come down to being between him and Finger boy, it's like the lesser of two evils.

Ferrim · Post by **Ferrim** » 21 Nov 2012, 22:00

The rain front is travelling slower than expected, and now more rain is expected for Sunday than for Saturday.

I fear it will end up being bone dry for Saturday and Sunday... it'll probably start raining as soon as the race is over :roll:

Aerond · Post by **Aerond** » 21 Nov 2012, 23:41

What I want to happen;

Vettel will fall short and lose to pole to Hamilton and Webber on Saturday. Raikkonen qualifies 4th, Maldonado 5th and Alonso is just 7th. It rains on Sunday and Maldonado touches Vettel at the 1st corner forcing him to spin only to find Vergne going wide and colliding with him. Alonso will cruise to 3rd thanks to intelligent tyre management in the rain and win the championship, while either Maldonado or Raikkonen get their 2nd win of the year.

What will happen;

Vettel will get a brilliant pole on Saturday, with Alonso somewhere between 4th and 8th. The much anticipated rain never falls on Sunday and Vettel wins easily after Webber gets the 2nd place at turn 1. Alonso doesn't care anymore and finish a distant 5th.

Nessafox · Post by **Nessafox** » 22 Nov 2012, 00:55

Well it's very predictable. Hülkenberg will score a pole-position.

macherone · Post by **macherone** » 22 Nov 2012, 04:36

I think Vettel will miss the pole by thousands of a second from Hamilton. Then he will have a bad start for once and be struck from behind by a wild Grosjean a la Verstappen in 2001 with Montoya. Alonso nonetheless finishes 5th because he gets a penalty from the GP's driver officer, Nelson Piquet Sr., because his beard is "hideous", giving Vettel the least deserved driver's championship since 2008.

Shizuka · Post by **Shizuka** » 22 Nov 2012, 12:14

If Alonso wins the title, someone please make me a Vettelwinslol avatar, and I'll use it for a month.

Post by **mario** » 22 Nov 2012, 18:42

Shizuka wrote:If Alonso wins the title, someone please make me a Vettelwinslol avatar, and I'll use it for a month.

Statistically, I would say that the odds are against such an outcome (according to F1Fanatic, only four races this season have panned out in such a way as to allow Alonso to win, and the last time that happened was back in Monza (3rd for Alonso and a DNF for Vettel)). The title is, by a long way, Vettel and Red Bull's to lose rather than Alonso's to win, as the only slight advantage that Alonso has is that Red Bull could be slightly hindered by their lower capacity KERS - with the engines around 8-9% down on power compared to normal, that should mean that their KERS deficit might be slightly more noticeable (although that may be offset by the fact the circuit is so short).

Overall, though, Vettel is in a fairly strong position - McLaren's upturn in performance helps Vettel more than Alonso since it reduces Alonso's chances of winning, and Interlagos isn't necessarily the easiest track to make a passing move. Although Alonso has generally been better in race trim than qualifying, Alonso can't compete with Vettel on raw pace alone - he'll probably have to hope that McLaren or Lotus can intervene and somehow hinder Vettel but not him, which doesn't seem especially likely given their respective qualifying forms.

Wet conditions would also probably help Vettel as much as Alonso - although Alonso has been very competitive in wet conditions, so has Vettel, and wet weather could bring Webber into play too. On top of that, wet conditions would probably eliminate any threat from McLaren at least (both drivers have struggled to generate enough front tyre temperature in wet conditions) and possibly Lotus too (their form in wet conditions has fluctuated over the year). Heavy rain could also lead to the race being red flagged (we have seen qualifying sessions stopped for that reason in recent years), and if the results were declared before 75% distance, Vettel would automatically win even if he didn't finish (half points would see Alonso, at best, come up 0.5 points short of the title).

TomWazzleshaw · Post by **TomWazzleshaw** » 23 Nov 2012, 02:03

I've just had another look at the forecastfor Brazil and my word it looks like it's heading towards a biblically wet race.

RonDenisDeletraz · Post by **RonDenisDeletraz** » 23 Nov 2012, 02:38

Wizzie wrote:I've just had another look at the forecastfor Brazil and my word it looks like it's heading towards a biblically wet race.

Bathplug yea

nome66 · Post by **nome66** » 23 Nov 2012, 02:45

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=svqc04Fbqns

Jocke1 · Post by **Jocke1** » 23 Nov 2012, 11:51

nome66 wrote:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=svqc04Fbqns

Was he fined for that?

DanielPT · Post by **DanielPT** » 23 Nov 2012, 11:56

eurobrun wrote:
Wizzie wrote:I've just had another look at the forecastfor Brazil and my word it looks like it's heading towards a biblically wet race.

Bathplug yea

In previous years, I would be hysterically excited, but I am afraid the recent NASCARization of F1 in what relates to rain is leaving his marks. A biblically wet race might imply Red flags, delays, dozens of laps behind the safety car... You know, the whole lot which doesn't have to do with actual racing.

Benetton · Post by **Benetton** » 23 Nov 2012, 12:14

Latest weather I've checked shows that rain would be more possible for qualifying than the race. Looks like the rain front will pass most heavily over Sao Paulo during the Saturday-Sunday night

Although, this might be a blessing in disguise since a completely soaked track, like others here have mentioned, would only bring out the red flag anyway. Hopefully, there will be some heavy, but shortish, showers.

Jocke1 · Post by **Jocke1** » 23 Nov 2012, 12:24

Watching P1 right now, the track is dry but outside the circuit it looks very foggy and the clouds are pretty grey.

Team radio to Petrov:
Vitaly, make sure your foot comes off the brake pedal after application.
:lol:

pi314159 · Post by **pi314159** » 23 Nov 2012, 12:56

The HRT drivers have only done an installation lap each, with only half an hour to go. Can't they risk anything braking before qualiifying? Or do they both have mechanical problems?

EDIT: Just when I wrote this DLR went out again.

EDIT 2: Both HRT are within the 107% at the moment.

James1978 · Post by **James1978** » 23 Nov 2012, 13:43

We need Cucumber in the race given his record in Malaysia and USA. ;-)

pi314159 · Post by **pi314159** » 23 Nov 2012, 14:03

James1978 wrote:We need Cucumber in the race given his record in Malaysia and USA.

Do you mean Karthikeyan is the only one who can still stop Vettel winning the championship?

AdrianSutil · Post by **AdrianSutil** » 23 Nov 2012, 16:12

pi314159 wrote:
James1978 wrote:We need Cucumber in the race given his record in Malaysia and USA.

Do you mean Karthikeyan is the only one who can still stop Vettel winning the championship?

Indeed, Karthikeyen is involved with the title-decider.

solarcold · Post by **solarcold** » 23 Nov 2012, 17:01

de la Rosa with 5 laps currently faster, then Pic with 24 laps. #thisIsHRTrace?

DanielPT · Post by **DanielPT** » 23 Nov 2012, 17:06

solarcold wrote:de la Rosa with 5 laps currently faster, then Pic with 24 laps. #thisIsHRTrace?

Glory run, perhaps?

Post by **mario** » 23 Nov 2012, 18:34

DanielPT wrote:
eurobrun wrote:
Wizzie wrote:I've just had another look at the forecastfor Brazil and my word it looks like it's heading towards a biblically wet race.

Bathplug yea

In previous years, I would be hysterically excited, but I am afraid the recent NASCARization of F1 in what relates to rain is leaving his marks. A biblically wet race might imply Red flags, delays, dozens of laps behind the safety car... You know, the whole lot which doesn't have to do with actual racing.

Is that not in part because the medical helicopters are often grounded in such conditions due to poor visibility? I believe that was cited as one reason for qualifying being suspended when we last had a wet qualifying session in Interlagos.

On another note, I wonder if McLaren are splitting their set up choices for Saturday? Button is the quickest on the main straight - he is 6kph faster than the next fastest car, and more than 10kph faster than Hamilton - although, judging by the fact that he was slower than both Mercedes (and around 0.8s off Hamilton's pace), it doesn't seem to be doing him a great deal of good at the moment.

Klon · Post by **Klon** » 23 Nov 2012, 19:10

mario wrote:Is that not in part because the medical helicopters are often grounded in such conditions due to poor visibility? I believe that was cited as one reason for qualifying being suspended when we last had a wet qualifying session in Interlagos.

That would perhaps explain this ungodly stupid red flag in Silverstone qualifying a few months ago as well. I mean, seriously, it didn't rain any worse than in Monza five years ago (and that track is far more dangerous than Silverstone, rain or no rain) and yet they interrupted Q2. It's just so ridiculous. On the other hand, without that red flag we wouldn't have a championship battle to look forward to, so your mileage will vary on the red flag being silly.

Post by **Ataxia** » 23 Nov 2012, 19:20

A note: Every time Vettel has finished second this year, he's not scored in the race after.

Here's some false hope for some of you...