Anyone else concerned about 2013?

[Paul Hayes]

No, I feel quite optimistic about it. True, we could see another year of Vettel domination... But somehow I just don't get that feeling.

I think Button as clear No. 1 at McLaren could hark back to the Brawn days for him, if they have as good as car as in the last couple of races. I think Hamilton will galvanise Mercedes, I think Raikkonen will be even more of a threat with Enstone, and I think Alonso will somehow manage to drag Ferrari to there-or-thereabouts territory, as per usual.

[S951]

some concern but not to much it will be as usual boring up front watch the battles behind and hope for the best.

Let's talk hypothetically if all teams had 3 cars who would drive where?

[Dj_bereta]

some concern but not to much it will be as usual boring up front watch the battles behind and hope for the best.

Let's talk hypothetically if all teams had 3 cars who would drive where?

Let's hope to TV Directors show more action from the middle to bottom of the grid, instead of showing Vettel's lead.

[dinizintheoven]

I know what we need to spice up the 2013 season.

A real, actual and proper Meat-Pie-Gate. SuperAguri, over to you.

[CarlosFerreira]

I've been thinking about this, and the cynical part of me wants to shout "bring on 2014". It certainly looks like Seb, now with 3 WDCs under his belt, might make mincemeat of the opposition. Stability in the regulations tends to lead to this situation where when someone in on a roll, they keep up. I personally can't wait for the new regs. Not all is lost, though. Let's see:

- Frankly, I can see Mercedes starting well. They're investing heavily right now, have given up seriously developing the W03 from about Belgium or so, and should have a competent package out of the box. Lewis will probably top the time sheets in the first tests, could do pole for race 1, will totally drive the wheels off the thing. Development is what worries me. I can almost imagine Ross going walking up and down the pitlane right now, shouting "does anyone here know how to develop an F1 car"?

- Ferrari will be there. They are the team that learned the most this season, they developed a stinker until it became the third best car on the grid. Felipe seems to have found his bearings. Fernando will be even better.

- McLaren can concentrate in building a car around two drivers with roughly comparable driving styles. Then they can focus on developing it consistently. They should still be able to mess it up, I'm sure, and figure out if Checo is the real thing or just a welcome distraction. I hope they don't have to hang their heads in shame at having lost the opportunity of hiring The Hulk.

And none of this matters. The thing we've all learned this year is that a lot rests with Pirelli - will they go back to making tyres made out of strawberry-flavoured jelly and used erasers, so everyone and Maldonado can have a go, or will they insist on doing a Bridgestone?

[Salamander]

And none of this matters. The thing we've all learned this year is that a lot rests with Pirelli - will they go back to making tyres made out of strawberry-flavoured jelly and used erasers, so everyone and Maldonado can have a go, or will they insist on doing a Bridgestone?

They'd better not do a Bridgestone; Monza 2010 still angers me to this day.

[takagi_for_the_win]

And none of this matters. The thing we've all learned this year is that a lot rests with Pirelli - will they go back to making tyres made out of strawberry-flavoured jelly and used erasers, so everyone and Maldonado can have a go, or will they insist on doing a Bridgestone?

They'd better not do a Bridgestone; Monza 2010 still angers me to this day.

Although Kamuis strategy at Valencia 2010 is still fantastic. But yeah, Pirelli need to ignore the criticism from certain quarters about tyre duration and keep making them unpredictable.

[Benetton]

I was concerned about Pirelli a few races ago, but what I saw these last few races was that these harder tires where maybe more unpredictable than the softs would've been because they had been used far more during the season and some teams started to figure them out (cough RBR cough).

A lot for next season depends on Pirelli, and please don't go down the Bridgestone route. I don't want the tires to be the deciding factor in a race but they should present a challenge for both the team and driver.

[CarlosFerreira]

And none of this matters. The thing we've all learned this year is that a lot rests with Pirelli - will they go back to making tyres made out of strawberry-flavoured jelly and used erasers, so everyone and Maldonado can have a go, or will they insist on doing a Bridgestone?

They'd better not do a Bridgestone; Monza 2010 still angers me to this day.

Every time I remember that sodding race I reach for the antiacid.

[sswishbone]

This thread is a bit unfair on Jenson Button in my opinion, in 2004 when ferrari hopelessly outclassed the field he stoo strong against them. In 2006 once the mid-season hit he was the form driver and outscored everyone, 2009 was pure brilliance even with him emulating Prost in falling over the line, while in 2011 he was the only driver to stand up to Vettel. With a teammate of similar style I expect him to do very well.

[Salamander]

This thread is a bit unfair on Jenson Button in my opinion, in 2004 when ferrari hopelessly outclassed the field he stoo strong against them. In 2006 once the mid-season hit he was the form driver and outscored everyone, 2009 was pure brilliance even with him emulating Prost in falling over the line, while in 2011 he was the only driver to stand up to Vettel. With a teammate of similar style I expect him to do very well.

Button is absolutely brilliant, when the car suits him. He can't adapt to an ill-handling car as well as most of the other top drivers. With another smooth driver in Perez alongside him, though, I'm sure McLaren will be able to cater to Button's style better than in the last 3 years.

[good_Ralf]

Thread bumped, if the mods don't mind.

Before this season began I thought this year would suck and it certainly looked like it when RBR locked out the front row in Australia. In that first race, tyre stops took place as early as lap 5, Red Bull were crushed by Ferrari and Lotus, the latter winning, Mercedes came on strong, Adrian Sutil led in his Force India, Jules Bianchi outdrove his Marussia like no-one had done before at the back and 7 different men led the race. I then thought that as this was the opener, we would see a lot more of this but of the facts I listed, hardly any have been repeated. Since Australia, only China, Spain, Britain and Hungary have really been equally or more exciting.
Last year, we had 8 teams (Red Bull, Ferrari, McLaren, Lotus, Mercedes, Sauber, Force India and Williams) challenging for wins, but of those 8, 3 (McLaren, Sauber, Williams) have built some of the worst cars in their history, Force India have built a consistent car that can't equal let alone surpass its Brazil pace and has now dropped back all together. Of the remaining 4, Lotus and Ferrari qualify so badly that even their superb race pace can't threaten RBR, while I don't know what to think of Mercedes. A painful stat is that because 4 of those 8 teams have such average cars so only 4 teams have occupied the podium this year and it is likely to stay that way. Another indication of the lack of diversity is that Vettel and Alonso have finished 1-2 for 3 successive races now.
As for the rest of the year, I have endlessly predicted that Vettel could win all of the races and Alan Permane thinks Red Bull will be so dominant next year teams such as Ferrari shouldn't even bother challenging them for the 2014 titles, given how good Red Bull is at adapting to rule changes.
Should we have been concerned about 2013? Yes, of course we should have. A repeat of 2012 will be a long time coming.

This is a rant (and an incomplete one at that), but in no way am I trying to criticise Vettel or Red Bull and suggest it is their fault that this year has been awful, in case some of you think that is the case.

[apple2009]

Thread bumped, if the mods don't mind.

Before this season began I thought this year would suck and it certainly looked like it when RBR locked out the front row in Australia. In that first race, tyre stops took place as early as lap 5, Red Bull were crushed by Ferrari and Lotus, the latter winning, Mercedes came on strong, Adrian Sutil led in his Force India, Jules Bianchi outdrove his Marussia like no-one had done before at the back and 7 different men led the race. I then thought that as this was the opener, we would see a lot more of this but of the facts I listed, hardly any have been repeated. Since Australia, only China, Spain, Britain and Hungary have really been equally or more exciting.
Last year, we had 8 teams (Red Bull, Ferrari, McLaren, Lotus, Mercedes, Sauber, Force India and Williams) challenging for wins, but of those 8, 3 (McLaren, Sauber, Williams) have built some of the worst cars in their history, Force India have built a consistent car that can't equal let alone surpass its Brazil pace and has now dropped back all together. Of the remaining 4, Lotus and Ferrari qualify so badly that even their superb race pace can't threaten RBR, while I don't know what to think of Mercedes. A painful stat is that because 4 of those 8 teams have such average cars so only 4 teams have occupied the podium this year and it is likely to stay that way. Another indication of the lack of diversity is that Vettel and Alonso have finished 1-2 for 3 successive races now.
As for the rest of the year, I have endlessly predicted that Vettel could win all of the races and Alan Permane thinks Red Bull will be so dominant next year teams such as Ferrari shouldn't even bother challenging them for the 2014 titles, given how good Red Bull is at adapting to rule changes.
Should we have been concerned about 2013? Yes, of course we should have. A repeat of 2012 will be a long time coming.

This is a rant (and an incomplete one at that), but in no way am I trying to criticise Vettel or Red Bull and suggest it is their fault that this year has been awful, in case some of you think that is the case.

If you're not criticizing Vettel then why are you saying this year has been "awful"?

[Alextrax52]

Thread bumped, if the mods don't mind.

Before this season began I thought this year would suck and it certainly looked like it when RBR locked out the front row in Australia. In that first race, tyre stops took place as early as lap 5, Red Bull were crushed by Ferrari and Lotus, the latter winning, Mercedes came on strong, Adrian Sutil led in his Force India, Jules Bianchi outdrove his Marussia like no-one had done before at the back and 7 different men led the race. I then thought that as this was the opener, we would see a lot more of this but of the facts I listed, hardly any have been repeated. Since Australia, only China, Spain, Britain and Hungary have really been equally or more exciting.
Last year, we had 8 teams (Red Bull, Ferrari, McLaren, Lotus, Mercedes, Sauber, Force India and Williams) challenging for wins, but of those 8, 3 (McLaren, Sauber, Williams) have built some of the worst cars in their history, Force India have built a consistent car that can't equal let alone surpass its Brazil pace and has now dropped back all together. Of the remaining 4, Lotus and Ferrari qualify so badly that even their superb race pace can't threaten RBR, while I don't know what to think of Mercedes. A painful stat is that because 4 of those 8 teams have such average cars so only 4 teams have occupied the podium this year and it is likely to stay that way. Another indication of the lack of diversity is that Vettel and Alonso have finished 1-2 for 3 successive races now.
As for the rest of the year, I have endlessly predicted that Vettel could win all of the races and Alan Permane thinks Red Bull will be so dominant next year teams such as Ferrari shouldn't even bother challenging them for the 2014 titles, given how good Red Bull is at adapting to rule changes.
Should we have been concerned about 2013? Yes, of course we should have. A repeat of 2012 will be a long time coming.

This is a rant (and an incomplete one at that), but in no way am I trying to criticise Vettel or Red Bull and suggest it is their fault that this year has been awful, in case some of you think that is the case.

If you're not criticizing Vettel then why are you saying this year has been "awful"?

Yeah I mean what would you rather have? 5 drivers from 2.5 teams taking all but 2 spaces on the podium as in 2011? Or 8 drivers from 4 teams taking the podium places? I know what i would want

[good_Ralf]

If you're not criticizing Vettel then why are you saying this year has been "awful"?

Yeah I mean what would you rather have? 5 drivers from 2.5 teams taking all but 2 spaces on the podium as in 2011? Or 8 drivers from 4 teams taking the podium places? I know what i would want

The latter, but that is still boring.

[Dj_bereta]

Thread bumped, if the mods don't mind.

Before this season began I thought this year would suck and it certainly looked like it when RBR locked out the front row in Australia. In that first race, tyre stops took place as early as lap 5, Red Bull were crushed by Ferrari and Lotus, the latter winning, Mercedes came on strong, Adrian Sutil led in his Force India, Jules Bianchi outdrove his Marussia like no-one had done before at the back and 7 different men led the race. I then thought that as this was the opener, we would see a lot more of this but of the facts I listed, hardly any have been repeated. Since Australia, only China, Spain, Britain and Hungary have really been equally or more exciting.
Last year, we had 8 teams (Red Bull, Ferrari, McLaren, Lotus, Mercedes, Sauber, Force India and Williams) challenging for wins, but of those 8, 3 (McLaren, Sauber, Williams) have built some of the worst cars in their history, Force India have built a consistent car that can't equal let alone surpass its Brazil pace and has now dropped back all together. Of the remaining 4, Lotus and Ferrari qualify so badly that even their superb race pace can't threaten RBR, while I don't know what to think of Mercedes. A painful stat is that because 4 of those 8 teams have such average cars so only 4 teams have occupied the podium this year and it is likely to stay that way. Another indication of the lack of diversity is that Vettel and Alonso have finished 1-2 for 3 successive races now.
As for the rest of the year, I have endlessly predicted that Vettel could win all of the races and Alan Permane thinks Red Bull will be so dominant next year teams such as Ferrari shouldn't even bother challenging them for the 2014 titles, given how good Red Bull is at adapting to rule changes.
Should we have been concerned about 2013? Yes, of course we should have. A repeat of 2012 will be a long time coming.

This is a rant (and an incomplete one at that), but in no way am I trying to criticise Vettel or Red Bull and suggest it is their fault that this year has been awful, in case some of you think that is the case.

Are you trying to say "Vettel not won = exciting racing"? Spain was one of most boring races of the season. China was boring too (not so boring like spain) and Hungary was average.

[Archie2K]

Vettel win or no Vettel win, 2013 races have not been exciting. I can't think of one I would willing go back and watch again. Canada and Spa produced two of their dullest races in history.
2009 was similar - only Brazil is a race I'd actually actively return to and watch again, but the season story was a cracker.

[FullMetalJack]

Vettel win or no Vettel win, 2013 races have not been exciting. I can't think of one I would willing go back and watch again. Canada and Spa produced two of their dullest races in history.
2009 was similar - only Brazil is a race I'd actually actively return to and watch again, but the season story was a cracker.

I really enjoyed Australia and China in 2009 too, but you're right, the racing wasn't superb that year.

I always looked forward to qualifying more than the races in 2009, as it was so unpredictable that year.

[AndreaModa]

Does anyone else find it unbelievable that, despite this thread being bumped recently as an excuse to moan a bit more, no-one has picked up on Eytl's almost spot-on predictions for 2013? There's so much guff around F1 journalism, especially during the build up to a new season, that it can often be difficult to sort the wheat from the chaff, and yet here is our own Senior Grand Prix Analyst absolutely nailing it on the head, the lot of it.

[Enforcer]

If you're not criticizing Vettel then why are you saying this year has been "awful"?

So it's impossible for someone to be bored with one guy winning races and consequently the WDC in generally predictable fashion (get pole, pull 1+ second gap by end of lap 2, stay there) without having anything against that guy in himself? FFS, I'm a huge Schumacher fan and some of the 2000s bored me. And I know Schumacher's dominance in 02 and 04 was greater on the scoreboard than Vettel's, but there's still the same impression of inevitability once Vettel gets off the grid in first.

[Alextrax52]

If you're not criticizing Vettel then why are you saying this year has been "awful"?

So it's impossible for someone to be bored with one guy winning races and consequently in generally predictable fashion (get pole, pull 1+ second gap by end of lap 2, stay there) without having anything against that guy in himself? FFS, I'm a huge Schumacher fan and some of the 2000s bored me. And I know Schumacher's dominance in 02 and 04 was greater on the scoreboard than Vettel's, but there's still the same impression of inevitability once Vettel gets off the grid in first.

Personally I don't care what era of F1 we sit in whether it's a tight field like 2012 or a one man show like in 2011 just as long as there is some drama on and off the track and this year's silly season has been one of the best in along time. Some people most notably Alonso himself have lamented the Pirelli Tire change because since then Red Bull have won 4 of the last 5 races and just driven away while doing it. Races like Spain and Australia prove a point as Red Bull finished miles behind in Barcelona and weren't able to show their pace in Melbourne due to the nature of the tires.

[noiceinmydrink]

If you're not criticizing Vettel then why are you saying this year has been "awful"?

Because it has been. You don't have to hate Vettel to hold that opinion.

[RonDenisDeletraz]

Does anyone else find it unbelievable that, despite this thread being bumped recently as an excuse to moan a bit more, no-one has picked up on Eytl's almost spot-on predictions for 2013? There's so much guff around F1 journalism, especially during the build up to a new season, that it can often be difficult to sort the wheat from the chaff, and yet here is our own Senior Grand Prix Analyst absolutely nailing it on the head, the lot of it.

I noticed that, Enoch's predictions are probably the most accurate that I have seen online this year.