2012 Brazilian Grand Prix discussion thread

WeirdKerr · Post by **WeirdKerr** » 28 Nov 2012, 22:35

Nuppiz wrote:
BaconLettuceNinja wrote:
LellaLombardi wrote:I wonder what more Vettel has to do to get some people's respect.

For some people on this forum, he'd have to Pull his latex disguise off to reveal he is in fact...HWNSNBM

Fixed.

FIXED for all time.....

Post by **Nuppiz** » 28 Nov 2012, 22:37

Now this is why I still have little respect towards Nolonso and Ferrari, and have been a bit more on Vettel's side in the title fight. Desperately pulling all the strings to try altering the results in their favor, instead of admitting "okay, he scored more points, we lost". The situation is confusing, as there are reports that a green flag was indeed waved by the marshall in that turn - if it's true, then Ferrari can swallow their complaint once and for all.

Post by **Londoner** » 28 Nov 2012, 22:46

This is just wrong. This is even worse than McLaren trying to get BMW and Williams disqualified in Brazil back in 2007, after the FIA had ruled that the car's fuel was legal. Hopefully common sense will prevail again.

Zetec · Post by **Zetec** » 28 Nov 2012, 23:02

Well, looking at this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qeNvmPcNlwI

I fully understand, if Ferrari are asking the FIA for there opinion. It is not 100% clear. Some claim, that a marshaller was waving a green flag. I can't see him. But, even if he was, Vettel should have been cautious, with the yellow dashboard lights still on.

Well, anyway: Does someone know, if Vettel really overtook under yellow, if they still could hand him a penalty? The results were confirmed by the FIA a few hours after the race.

Edit: I just read, that they can protest until the 30th of November...

James1978 · Post by **James1978** » 29 Nov 2012, 00:21

FFS Ferrari let it drop for crying out loud.

Shadaza · Post by **Shadaza** » 29 Nov 2012, 00:27

It angers me because a 25 second penalty would have been meaningless had the race not ended under the safety car. Also if Vettel had been given a penalty during the race for whatever reason (I hear he would have lost 4 points and meant Alonso would win the championship by 1 point) Red Bull would have made Webber drop out to give Vettel the title. It is only this bizzare post race scenario that Vettel would ever lose the title and nowhere on the race track. It is bonkers.

Post by **Ataxia** » 29 Nov 2012, 00:29

Look on the left-hand side:

AndreaModa · Post by **AndreaModa** » 29 Nov 2012, 00:42

Well that's it then, there's no way the FIA can strip Vettel of his title. I'm of the opinion that Alonso, having driven a stormer of a season, deserved the title more, but actions like this really don't help his, or to a greater extent, Ferrari's reputation. The FIA aren't stupid, they're not going to retroactively award the title to Alonso, that would be nuts.

Svenko Wankerov · Post by **Svenko Wankerov** » 29 Nov 2012, 01:21

The only quote that has been attributed to Ferrari is them saying they won't lodge a protest.

Typical British lazy yellow journalism, but I don't blame them for relying on that since some people here are willing to disregard facts to confirm their own biases.

AdrianSutil · Post by **AdrianSutil** » 29 Nov 2012, 02:09

East Londoner wrote:Here's a fan video of the moment where the Reverend reverted into his alter-ego, Crashtor Faildonado. Goes to show how godawful the TV director was, because it was a pretty big shunt. Watch from 1:30 onwards.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=awronW8LZ4Q#!

Fairly amateurish crash that. Also living the fans reaction to Vettel being caught up in the crash and how the whole field streams past almost in a line lap after lap, then a gap for a few seconds, then Karthikeyen at the very back on his own :lol:

Gerudo Dragon · Post by **Gerudo Dragon** » 29 Nov 2012, 05:40

AndreaModa wrote:Well that's it then, there's no way the FIA can strip Vettel of his title.

Damn, I'm dissapointed.

FMecha · Post by **FMecha** » 29 Nov 2012, 07:34

Anyone suggesting a conspiracy theory where di Resta crashed deliberately at the penultimate lap? I'm not. :twisted:

Benetton · Post by **Benetton** » 29 Nov 2012, 07:46

If there was a marshal waving a green flag, which I believe was the case, then the Vettel overtake will be deemed legal since he and RBR will defend themselves on that. It is interesting though that Vettel went for the overtake despite the yellows still being on his dash though. In the end, the yellows were waved because of the Maldonado crash in that corner so it is logical to think that the Marshal would wave a green for the following straight (were the track was clear).

This does really reflect bad on FIA and their organizations on the tracks. The flag/light posts should be syncronized to avoid this kind of controversy.

Paul Hayes · Post by **Paul Hayes** » 29 Nov 2012, 08:52

It would look ridiculous for the championship result to be changed on this occasion when it wasn't in, say, 1990 or 1994 after far worse offences by the title-winning drivers. And there *does* seem to be a marshal waving a green flag.

Aerond · Post by **Aerond** » 29 Nov 2012, 08:58

Exactly, the FIA should have DQ Schumacher from the 1994 championship for that action, in fact, they should have DQed the benetton team entirely after Germany, but that's another different matter

Shizuka · Post by **Shizuka** » 29 Nov 2012, 10:16

Benetton wrote:The light flag system needs to be improved since it has stirred up so much unneeded controversy!

I'm also glad that RoGro walked to the pit without any injury since that was a big off (something along 6 G at least). Once he spun outside the track it seemed to only gain speed from the wet tarmac then slow down.

It was 7.4, if I remember correctly. At least a 7.

TomWazzleshaw · Post by **TomWazzleshaw** » 29 Nov 2012, 10:21

Shizuka wrote:
Benetton wrote:The light flag system needs to be improved since it has stirred up so much unneeded controversy!

I'm also glad that RoGro walked to the pit without any injury since that was a big off (something along 6 G at least). Once he spun outside the track it seemed to only gain speed from the wet tarmac then slow down.

It was 7.4, if I remember correctly. At least a 7.

It was actually 7.2 the moment it went completely off the scale as he it the wall so the impact g would, in all likelyhood, be much higher than what was recorded

Shizuka · Post by **Shizuka** » 29 Nov 2012, 10:25

Still, that has to be the highest G I have ever seen on TV.

razta · Post by **razta** » 29 Nov 2012, 10:36

Ferrari are gonna use the Youtube evidence..
http://arabia.msn.com/sports/other-spor ... tle-repor/

Cynon · Post by **Cynon** » 29 Nov 2012, 10:50

A rule is a rule, and it doesn't matter if it affects the championship or not, the rules still apply to everyone.

Do I think Ferrari have a leg to stand on? Given the yellow light that is apparently on in Vettel's wheel... yes. If anything, this might clarify what takes more priority -- the flag marshals or the signals on the wheel.

I was also a bit worried about Grosjean hitting the wall at over 7 G, but considering a safety car or anything didn't come out for it, I assumed he was fine... but I bet he was feeling that one the morning after!

Paul Hayes · Post by **Paul Hayes** » 29 Nov 2012, 11:11

All over and done with already, apparently - FIA say there's no case to answer:

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/104644

Post by **Nuppiz** » 29 Nov 2012, 12:17

Paul Hayes wrote:All over and done with already, apparently - FIA say there's no case to answer:

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/104644

Well, I'm glad it's over before it got nasty.

Wallio · Post by **Wallio** » 29 Nov 2012, 13:11

Thank God. If this had been overturned and 1990, 1994, or to a much lesser extent, 1999, 2003 or 2008 hadn't the FIA would look worse than NASCAR. I know everyone one here is gonna hate the call, but you gotta admit it was the right one.

Silly fanboism aside, I especially like the wording of that ruling: The first green takes precedence. Basically the FIA confirmed what they teach you at any racing school for any type of skill level of motorsport, if you see green, put it to the bathplugging boards and ask questions later.

razta · Post by **razta** » 29 Nov 2012, 14:28

Here's what Stepney makes of the Ferrari ...

Post by **mario** » 29 Nov 2012, 14:59

Cynon wrote:A rule is a rule, and it doesn't matter if it affects the championship or not, the rules still apply to everyone.

Do I think Ferrari have a leg to stand on? Given the yellow light that is apparently on in Vettel's wheel... yes. If anything, this might clarify what takes more priority -- the flag marshals or the signals on the wheel.

I was also a bit worried about Grosjean hitting the wall at over 7 G, but considering a safety car or anything didn't come out for it, I assumed he was fine... but I bet he was feeling that one the morning after!

As I understand things, the FIA has fitted an accelerometer into the cars that can record the deceleration forces that the driver experiences - if they exceed a certain threshold, which is signalled by a light on the side of the cockpit, that would automatically trigger a call for medical intervention.

In the case of Grosjean, his accident was not severe enough to cross that threshold - under those circumstances, therefore, I believe that the call for medical intervention lies with the marshals (given that they are at the site of the accident), and presumably they felt that if Grosjean was able to exit the car unaided and appeared to be unharmed, then there was no need for immediate medical attention. Asides from that, if the accident is fairly heavy (like Kovalainen's accident in the 2008 Spanish GP), either the teams or the FIA will carry out separate medical checks - so, all in all, I suspect that they were prepared just in case Grosjean needed further assistance.

Wallio · Post by **Wallio** » 29 Nov 2012, 15:06

razta wrote:Here's what Stepney makes of the Ferrari ...

C'mon I'm a Vettel fan, but talk about #Irony and #PotCallinKettel

razta · Post by **razta** » 29 Nov 2012, 15:57

By the way, his book cleverly titled "Red-Mist" should be out for Christmas - HAHAHHAHA

Shadaza · Post by **Shadaza** » 29 Nov 2012, 16:40

http://sniffpetrol.com/2012/11/29/ferrari-to-challenge-christmas/

sniffpetrol's take.

AdrianSutil · Post by **AdrianSutil** » 29 Nov 2012, 18:37

mario wrote:
Cynon wrote:A rule is a rule, and it doesn't matter if it affects the championship or not, the rules still apply to everyone.

Do I think Ferrari have a leg to stand on? Given the yellow light that is apparently on in Vettel's wheel... yes. If anything, this might clarify what takes more priority -- the flag marshals or the signals on the wheel.

I was also a bit worried about Grosjean hitting the wall at over 7 G, but considering a safety car or anything didn't come out for it, I assumed he was fine... but I bet he was feeling that one the morning after!

As I understand things, the FIA has fitted an accelerometer into the cars that can record the deceleration forces that the driver experiences - if they exceed a certain threshold, which is signalled by a light on the side of the cockpit, that would automatically trigger a call for medical intervention.

In the case of Grosjean, his accident was not severe enough to cross that threshold - under those circumstances, therefore, I believe that the call for medical intervention lies with the marshals (given that they are at the site of the accident), and presumably they felt that if Grosjean was able to exit the car unaided and appeared to be unharmed, then there was no need for immediate medical attention. Asides from that, if the accident is fairly heavy (like Kovalainen's accident in the 2008 Spanish GP), either the teams or the FIA will carry out separate medical checks - so, all in all, I suspect that they were prepared just in case Grosjean needed further assistance.

Don't wish to be picky, but I thought the little red light is situated on top of the car by the aerial and the emergency neutral button?

Post by **mario** » 29 Nov 2012, 19:58

AdrianSutil wrote:
mario wrote:
Cynon wrote:A rule is a rule, and it doesn't matter if it affects the championship or not, the rules still apply to everyone.

Do I think Ferrari have a leg to stand on? Given the yellow light that is apparently on in Vettel's wheel... yes. If anything, this might clarify what takes more priority -- the flag marshals or the signals on the wheel.

I was also a bit worried about Grosjean hitting the wall at over 7 G, but considering a safety car or anything didn't come out for it, I assumed he was fine... but I bet he was feeling that one the morning after!

As I understand things, the FIA has fitted an accelerometer into the cars that can record the deceleration forces that the driver experiences - if they exceed a certain threshold, which is signalled by a light on the side of the cockpit, that would automatically trigger a call for medical intervention.

In the case of Grosjean, his accident was not severe enough to cross that threshold - under those circumstances, therefore, I believe that the call for medical intervention lies with the marshals (given that they are at the site of the accident), and presumably they felt that if Grosjean was able to exit the car unaided and appeared to be unharmed, then there was no need for immediate medical attention. Asides from that, if the accident is fairly heavy (like Kovalainen's accident in the 2008 Spanish GP), either the teams or the FIA will carry out separate medical checks - so, all in all, I suspect that they were prepared just in case Grosjean needed further assistance.

Don't wish to be picky, but I thought the little red light is situated on top of the car by the aerial and the emergency neutral button?

You are indeed correct - it is in front of the cockpit opening and next to the neutral button, not at the side.

Jocke1 · Post by **Jocke1** » 30 Nov 2012, 12:28

Shizuka wrote:Still, that has to be the highest G I have ever seen on TV.

You never saw the Brack crash?

dr-baker · Post by **dr-baker** » 01 Dec 2012, 18:47

OK, this may seem odd considering I'm the second-highest poster on this forum, but this is the first chance I've had to read this thread since before watching the Brazilian race last weekend. Definitely race of the year. Bernie, do you know how much money you could make if you allowed people to download individual races to keep and watch? Because there are several I would watch again and again, and this is one of them!

Plus there are several posts in this thread I loved...

F1000X wrote:

Paul Hayes wrote:Just to underline, there is absolutely nothing amusing about David Coulthard's line "He's coming into a wet box, very slippery."

Nothing at all.

14 Hundred Hours wrote:Button stands on podium. Mother walks in. "Who's he?"
"What?! That's Jenson Button!"
"Oh. How'd he get up there when he crashed?"
"...he didn't... that was Hamilton."

14 Hundred Hours wrote:
JJMonty wrote:Translation:
Massa was thanking the supporters for what has been a long year for him. He was appologising for how bad he was at the start of the season, but was glad he could make up for it in the second half of the year and was very glad to be on the podium in Interlagos

Bless him. That's kinda sweet

But also some I disagreed with.

darkapprentice77 wrote:I hope Button somehow gets disqualified. Somehow.

I disagree with this, because, although I would have preferred to have seen Alonso win the title, I am much, Much, MUCH more a Button fan, and was happy to see him end the season with a win. If only McLaren had a better mid-season he could have battled for the championship. 2013 perhaps?

Klon wrote:
Oh, and of course...

Yuck. Why? Actually, why am I even reposting this? Must be considered generally the most unpopular image on here.

Jocke1 wrote:
Jocke1 wrote:
Jocke1 wrote:Who is that they insist on showing over and over in Fernando's garage?
Wasn't he married to Rosario-what's-her-face?

Again today, at least five times. Who is she?

I got Erja Hakkinen flashbacks...

Her name is apparently Dasha Kapustina.
'Ole Nando must have ditched Rosario-something, then. Fernando, you dawg.

And this is something I kept wondering during the race. Thanks for clearing that up!

Shadaza · Post by **Shadaza** » 01 Dec 2012, 23:20

AdrianSutil · Post by **AdrianSutil** » 02 Dec 2012, 00:01

Shadaza wrote:

Although the language may cause a problem with some of our.. sensitive members, that's bloody hilarious!

Ed24 · Post by **Ed24** » 02 Dec 2012, 02:37

dr-baker wrote:OK, this may seem odd considering I'm the second-highest poster on this forum, but this is the first chance I've had to read this thread since before watching the Brazilian race last weekend. Definitely race of the year. Bernie, do you know how much money you could make if you allowed people to download individual races to keep and watch? Because there are several I would watch again and again, and this is one of them!
(---)
I disagree with this, because, although I would have preferred to have seen Alonso win the title, I am much, Much, MUCH more a Button fan, and was happy to see him end the season with a win. If only McLaren had a better mid-season he could have battled for the championship. 2013 perhaps?
(---)
Her name is apparently Dasha Kapustina.
'Ole Nando must have ditched Rosario-something, then. Fernando, you dawg.

I think most people who really want to would download them not pay for them, but yes there are lots of money-making opportunities in this area.

Well you can't really blame McLaren for Button being out of the hunt, from Bahrain to Britain he scored 7 points whereas Lewis scored 47 - so Button can only blame himself I think!

Actually, Alonso divorced his wife in December 2011, I'm surprised how many people had forgotten this! Aren't you people reading the gossip mags? :lol:

Shizuka · Post by **Shizuka** » 02 Dec 2012, 07:17

Jocke1 wrote:
Shizuka wrote:Still, that has to be the highest G I have ever seen on TV.

You never saw the Brack crash?

No.

Shadaza · Post by **Shadaza** » 02 Dec 2012, 17:44

Kubica's crash in Montreal had a peak of "75 G" according to the onboard data recorder.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/59988

FullMetalJack · Post by **FullMetalJack** » 02 Dec 2012, 18:17

Shizuka wrote:
Jocke1 wrote:
Shizuka wrote:Still, that has to be the highest G I have ever seen on TV.

You never saw the Brack crash?

No.

You'll be so amazed he's still alive after watching it.

AdrianSutil · Post by **AdrianSutil** » 03 Dec 2012, 19:51

And here it is:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yCpI1-es ... ata_player

RealRacingRoots · Post by **RealRacingRoots** » 03 Dec 2012, 23:56

Is it just me, or does the Highlights edit for this race at the F1 website completely ignored the Phantom Debris Safety Car?