Possible updates to "Hall of Shame"

DanielPT · Post by **DanielPT** » 29 Nov 2011, 10:31

Kimi Raikkonen for hang up keys, no doubt. If Schumi had an hard time, I can see Kimi struggle more...

FullMetalJack · Post by **FullMetalJack** » 29 Nov 2011, 17:24

DanielPT wrote:Kimi Raikkonen for hang up keys, no doubt. If Schumi had an hard time, I can see Kimi struggle more...

To be fair, Kimi's not exactly over the hill yet. He's just turned 32.

DanielPT · Post by **DanielPT** » 29 Nov 2011, 18:12

redbulljack14 wrote:
DanielPT wrote:Kimi Raikkonen for hang up keys, no doubt. If Schumi had an hard time, I can see Kimi struggle more...

To be fair, Kimi's not exactly over the hill yet. He's just turned 32.

It is true, but it is also true that F1 comebacks haven't been corresponding to expectations lately, to say the least.

stupot94 · Post by **stupot94** » 29 Nov 2011, 18:36

DanielPT wrote:
redbulljack14 wrote:
DanielPT wrote:Kimi Raikkonen for hang up keys, no doubt. If Schumi had an hard time, I can see Kimi struggle more...

To be fair, Kimi's not exactly over the hill yet. He's just turned 32.

It is true, but it is also true that F1 comebacks haven't been corresponding to expectations lately, to say the least.

De La Rosa

FullMetalJack · Post by **FullMetalJack** » 29 Nov 2011, 20:09

stupot94 wrote:
DanielPT wrote:It is true, but it is also true that F1 comebacks haven't been corresponding to expectations lately, to say the least.

De La Rosa

He wasn't that bad in 2010 to be fair.

AdrianSutil · Post by **AdrianSutil** » 30 Nov 2011, 05:07

redbulljack14 wrote:
stupot94 wrote:
DanielPT wrote:It is true, but it is also true that F1 comebacks haven't been corresponding to expectations lately, to say the least.

De La Rosa

He wasn't that bad in 2010 to be fair.

Agree. It wasn't until after he left that the car became a lot more competitive.

Ferrim · Post by **Ferrim** » 30 Nov 2011, 14:12

He was what he's always been. A competent driver who always manages to hit trouble. He usually went backwards in race starts, while Kobayashi always won several positions; in 2010 that was a crucial skill. Then, one day his car would explode, another day someone would collide against him, and in the rare days on which nothing of that happened he would find a way to mess up (ie: Spa). The only time he scored points (Hungary), one of his mechanics was almost hit by a wheel coming from Rosberg's car. He's definitely cursed :lol:

Still, he should Hang Up The Keys.

FullMetalJack · Post by **FullMetalJack** » 30 Nov 2011, 16:32

Ferrim wrote:He was what he's always been. A competent driver who always manages to hit trouble. He usually went backwards in race starts, while Kobayashi always won several positions; in 2010 that was a crucial skill. Then, one day his car would explode, another day someone would collide against him, and in the rare days on which nothing of that happened he would find a way to mess up (ie: Spa). The only time he scored points (Hungary), one of his mechanics was almost hit by a wheel coming from Rosberg's car. He's definitely cursed

Still, he should Hang Up The Keys.

If he wasn't cursed, I reckon he would have reached double figures in points in 2000. 2 points wasn't a fair reflection of his driving that year.

Ferrim · Post by **Ferrim** » 30 Nov 2011, 21:06

That's another good example of what I was saying. He was having a great race in Canada; the weather screw him, and then Diniz crashed against him in a pretty stupid way. Then came Austria: he would have finished 4th but his car failed. Then, in Germany, everything was finally going his way. He should have finished 3rd, behind Barrichello and Häkkinen, but spun off a few laps from the end and only managed a 6th position.

DanielPT · Post by **DanielPT** » 02 Dec 2011, 18:13

Ferrim wrote:That's another good example of what I was saying. He was having a great race in Canada; the weather screw him, and then Diniz crashed against him in a pretty stupid way. Then came Austria: he would have finished 4th but his car failed. Then, in Germany, everything was finally going his way. He should have finished 3rd, behind Barrichello and Häkkinen, but spun off a few laps from the end and only managed a 6th position.

Certainly he had some bad luck, but I believe someone fast manage to get through and in the end while he had some bad luck, being a nice guy and having a strong development and technical nous wasn't enough because he lacked that edge. Which is precisely what Schumacher is lacking these days...

Post by **mario** » 03 Dec 2011, 10:09

James1978 wrote:Or Jarno Trulli?

(It's seriously winding me up that him and PdlR have got drives for next season and Sutil hasn't).

Barrichello's a slightly differetn matter as I really want to see him have 20 seasons in F1, which to equate to exactly half his life!

Not just half of Rubens's life - it's also somewhat sobering to consider that Rubens has participated in nearly one third of all the seasons that the sport has, and considering that he has been active at a time when the calendar has been increasing in length, I wouldn't be surprised if he has taken part in at least a third of all the championship races to have occurred under the banner of F1.
In that respect it is a staggering achievement, though sadly, given his age and the increasing importance of sponsorship in brokering deals - for all his criticism, probably only Eddie Jordan would have had the nerve to openly ask drivers how much they reckoned it would cost them to get a seat (the question was addressed to Luiz Razia, who reckoned that £6-7 million could get you a seat on the grid) - it'll be a surprise, albeit a welcome one, if Rubens does have a seat for 2012.

Post by **tommykl** » 03 Dec 2011, 14:17

Rubens has entered 326 Grands Prix out of 858 in total. That makes for just under 38%...

Ferrim · Post by **Ferrim** » 03 Dec 2011, 15:51

DanielPT wrote:
Ferrim wrote:That's another good example of what I was saying. He was having a great race in Canada; the weather screw him, and then Diniz crashed against him in a pretty stupid way. Then came Austria: he would have finished 4th but his car failed. Then, in Germany, everything was finally going his way. He should have finished 3rd, behind Barrichello and Häkkinen, but spun off a few laps from the end and only managed a 6th position.

Certainly he had some bad luck, but I believe someone fast manage to get through and in the end while he had some bad luck, being a nice guy and having a strong development and technical nous wasn't enough because he lacked that edge. Which is precisely what Schumacher is lacking these days...

Well, there I was pointing out at the fact that, while he's had lots of bad luck during his career, he's also been to blame for his own mistakes when things were going well, indeed.

DanielPT · Post by **DanielPT** » 05 Dec 2011, 12:18

Ferrim wrote:
DanielPT wrote:
Ferrim wrote:That's another good example of what I was saying. He was having a great race in Canada; the weather screw him, and then Diniz crashed against him in a pretty stupid way. Then came Austria: he would have finished 4th but his car failed. Then, in Germany, everything was finally going his way. He should have finished 3rd, behind Barrichello and Häkkinen, but spun off a few laps from the end and only managed a 6th position.

Certainly he had some bad luck, but I believe someone fast manage to get through and in the end while he had some bad luck, being a nice guy and having a strong development and technical nous wasn't enough because he lacked that edge. Which is precisely what Schumacher is lacking these days...

Well, there I was pointing out at the fact that, while he's had lots of bad luck during his career, he's also been to blame for his own mistakes when things were going well, indeed.

Yes, but a fast driver also makes mistakes. Just look at Hamilton this year as an extreme example, for instance. I was going the other way saying that despite these mistakes and his qualities, he lacked the edge to make his forays more successful.

pi314159 · Post by **pi314159** » 20 Nov 2012, 07:17

I have some ideas:
Karthikeyan for the "You lucky b******"
Schumacher and Villeneuve for "Hang up the keys", while Schumacher could go Rosberg's pace at least this year, Villeneuve's comeback attemps were ridiculous (StefanGP, Durango-Villeneuve)
HRT'S "This could be you" for Salt Lake Olympics

New award: "Interesting flowerpot" for cars that were absolutely rubbish:
1. Life L190
2. Kauhsen WK
3. The several versions of the Maki car

Onxy Wrecked · Post by **Onxy Wrecked** » 31 Dec 2012, 23:04

pi314159 wrote:I have some ideas:
Karthikeyan for the "You lucky b******"
Schumacher and Villeneuve for "Hang up the keys", while Schumacher could go Rosberg's pace at least this year, Villeneuve's comeback attemps were ridiculous (StefanGP, Durango-Villeneuve)
HRT'S "This could be you" for Salt Lake Olympics

New award: "Interesting flowerpot" for cars that were absolutely rubbish:
1. Life L190
2. Kauhsen WK
3. The several versions of the Maki car

We need another one for flower pot. MasterCard Lola.

Cynon · Post by **Cynon** » 01 Jan 2013, 08:31

New Award: Phantom Menace, for teams that almost joined F1 but didn't -- and if they did, would almost CERTAINLY be on F1 Rejects' teams section.

Bronze: Dome
SIlver: USF1
Gold: Stefan GP

RonDenisDeletraz · Post by **RonDenisDeletraz** » 01 Jan 2013, 09:05

Cynon wrote:New Award: Phantom Menace, for teams that almost joined F1 but didn't -- and if they did, would almost CERTAINLY be on F1 Rejects' teams section.

Bronze: Dome
SIlver: USF1
Gold: Stefan GP

I agree with this award, but I would put DAMS in third

Onxy Wrecked · Post by **Onxy Wrecked** » 01 Jan 2013, 09:23

Cynon wrote:New Award: Phantom Menace, for teams that almost joined F1 but didn't -- and if they did, would almost CERTAINLY be on F1 Rejects' teams section.

Bronze: Dome
SIlver: USF1
Gold: Stefan GP

Dome would have been more along the lines of Onyx. They would have survived and dodged the rejects if properly managed oddly, Onyx had it's funds cut down and they became reject material as Monteverdi. DAMS was so slow that it would have made Dome's cars look like a Williams-Renault driven by Villeneuve back when Williams was a championship team.

pi314159 · Post by **pi314159** » 01 Jan 2013, 09:30

What about Oreste Bertas project. He had already entered the cars for the 2 South American events in 1975, but he witdrew his entry because his own engines were underpowered and kept blowing up.

Cynon · Post by **Cynon** » 01 Jan 2013, 18:45

eurobrun wrote:
Cynon wrote:New Award: Phantom Menace, for teams that almost joined F1 but didn't -- and if they did, would almost CERTAINLY be on F1 Rejects' teams section.

Bronze: Dome
SIlver: USF1
Gold: Stefan GP

I agree with this award, but I would put DAMS in third

I honestly couldn't think of a Bronze other than Dome and was hoping I'd get a more suitable response from someone else who knew better. :lol:

FullMetalJack · Post by **FullMetalJack** » 01 Jan 2013, 18:57

Onxy Wrecked wrote:
Cynon wrote:New Award: Phantom Menace, for teams that almost joined F1 but didn't -- and if they did, would almost CERTAINLY be on F1 Rejects' teams section.

Bronze: Dome
SIlver: USF1
Gold: Stefan GP

Dome would have been more along the lines of Onyx. They would have survived and dodged the rejects if properly managed oddly, Onyx had it's funds cut down and they became reject material as Monteverdi. DAMS was so slow that it would have made Dome's cars look like a Williams-Renault driven by Villeneuve back when Williams was a championship team.

What about FIRST?

Post by **Nuppiz** » 01 Jan 2013, 20:24

redbulljack14 wrote:
Onxy Wrecked wrote:
Cynon wrote:New Award: Phantom Menace, for teams that almost joined F1 but didn't -- and if they did, would almost CERTAINLY be on F1 Rejects' teams section.

Bronze: Dome
SIlver: USF1
Gold: Stefan GP

Dome would have been more along the lines of Onyx. They would have survived and dodged the rejects if properly managed oddly, Onyx had it's funds cut down and they became reject material as Monteverdi. DAMS was so slow that it would have made Dome's cars look like a Williams-Renault driven by Villeneuve back when Williams was a championship team.

What about FIRST?

Or Spain's previous F1 attempt, Bravo F1?

tristan1117 · Post by **tristan1117** » 02 Jan 2013, 03:29

redbulljack14 wrote:
Onxy Wrecked wrote:
Cynon wrote:New Award: Phantom Menace, for teams that almost joined F1 but didn't -- and if they did, would almost CERTAINLY be on F1 Rejects' teams section.

Bronze: Dome
SIlver: USF1
Gold: Stefan GP

Dome would have been more along the lines of Onyx. They would have survived and dodged the rejects if properly managed oddly, Onyx had it's funds cut down and they became reject material as Monteverdi. DAMS was so slow that it would have made Dome's cars look like a Williams-Renault driven by Villeneuve back when Williams was a championship team.

What about FIRST?

How about Phoenix, Prodrive, Alexander Wurz's nefarious entry from a few years ago and iSport?

Onxy Wrecked · Post by **Onxy Wrecked** » 03 Jan 2013, 23:55

pi314159 wrote:What about Oreste Bertas project. He had already entered the cars for the 2 South American events in 1975, but he witdrew his entry because his own engines were underpowered and kept blowing up.

Now that's not just a phantom menace. It's a fragile menace like those Makis.

roblo97 · Post by **roblo97** » 13 Jan 2013, 17:09

the Mickey Mouse, for tracks that had no right to be on the F1 calander
3.Valencia
2.Nivelles-Baulers
1. Abu Dhabi

FullMetalJack · Post by **FullMetalJack** » 13 Jan 2013, 17:38

roblomas52 wrote:the Mickey Mouse, for tracks that had no right to be on the F1 calander
3.Phoenix/Valencia
2.Nievvels Baulers
1. Abu Dhabi

I liked Phoenix, mostly because there was always a very high attrition rate, and Senna's battle with Alesi.

RonDenisDeletraz · Post by **RonDenisDeletraz** » 13 Jan 2013, 22:00

roblomas52 wrote:2.Nievvels Baulers

Aside from the terrible spelling, this has no place being on the list

roblo97 · Post by **roblo97** » 13 Jan 2013, 22:12

eurobrun wrote:
roblomas52 wrote:2.Nivelles-Baulers

Aside from the terrible spelling, this has no place being on the list

it does because the drivers found it was to bland and sterile and the fans hated it because they were to far away from the track. I could have put AVUS onto the list because the drivers who raced there all thought the Nurburgring Nordschlife was safer

Post by **DemocalypseNow** » 14 Jan 2013, 07:41

roblomas52 wrote:it does because the drivers found it was to bland and sterile and the fans hated it because they were to far away from the track.

So you based your list on Wikipedia then yeah? Pretty sure that's a direct copy...

And AVUS has no right to be on the list, all the races I've watched that ran there (DTM, F3, STC) were pretty good. Except when Kieth O'dor died. It was rather dangerous I'll admit...

Post by **tommykl** » 14 Jan 2013, 16:21

Stramala [kostas22] wrote:
roblomas52 wrote:it does because the drivers found it was to bland and sterile and the fans hated it because they were to far away from the track.

So you based your list on Wikipedia then yeah? Pretty sure that's a direct copy...

And AVUS has no right to be on the list, all the races I've watched that ran there (DTM, F3, STC) were pretty good. Except when Kieth O'dor died. It was rather dangerous I'll admit...

I think he wanted to add AVUS to the list because it was unsafe, which has nothing to do with the quality of the racing. And back when F1 went there, it was definitely unsafe.

DOSBoot · Post by **DOSBoot** » 15 Jan 2013, 00:56

roblomas52 wrote:the Mickey Mouse, for tracks that had no right to be on the F1 calander
3.Valencia
2.Nivelles-Baulers
1. Abu Dhabi

Already did this earlier in the thread. You almost took the title word-for-word.

pi314159 · Post by **pi314159** » 13 Mar 2013, 10:22

"Turn off the Microphone" for reject commentators. Heiko Wasser definitely deserves a mention.

"Engine failures" for failed engine concepts

-Life W12 engine
-Subaru F12 engine
-Pratt & Whitney turbine engine

James1978 · Post by **James1978** » 15 Mar 2013, 12:31

pi314159 wrote:"Turn off the Microphone" for reject commentators. Heiko Wasser definitely deserves a mention.

Jonathan Legard!!!!

Post by **mario** » 15 Mar 2013, 13:01

pi314159 wrote:"Turn off the Microphone" for reject commentators. Heiko Wasser definitely deserves a mention.

"Engine failures" for failed engine concepts

-Life W12 engine
-Subaru F12 engine
-Pratt & Whitney turbine engine

The turbine engine is perhaps a little debatable, as some might argue that the concept in and of itself wasn't entirely without promise - had Lotus been able to develop a continuously variable transmission to go with the turbine engine (so they could rely on the transmission to modulate the power output and let the engine run under constant load), it might well have worked much more effectively in the end.

ibsey · Post by **ibsey** » 15 Mar 2013, 19:11

James1978 wrote:
pi314159 wrote:"Turn off the Microphone" for reject commentators. Heiko Wasser definitely deserves a mention.

Jonathan Legard!!!!

Julian Bailey commentary on Star Sports at the 2008 British GP weekend was horrific from what I can remember of it.

WaffleCat · Post by **WaffleCat** » 16 Mar 2013, 01:54

ibsey wrote:
James1978 wrote:
pi314159 wrote:"Turn off the Microphone" for reject commentators. Heiko Wasser definitely deserves a mention.

Jonathan Legard!!!!

Julian Bailey commentary on Star Sports at the 2008 British GP weekend was horrific from what I can remember of it.

All I remember of him on commentary was not being able to decipher half of whatever he was saying.

ibsey · Post by **ibsey** » 16 Mar 2013, 20:11

In light of most people's feelings in regards to race control postponing today's quali session. How about the "Yes yes yes, I know what I am doing" for the worse decisions taken by the FIA / race control during an event. Like...

1. USA 2005 - not taking measures to allow all the cars to start.

2. Spa 2000 - over cautious SC start (what with the pileup from 1998 still fresh in the memory), when most people including ITV's commentator Brundle, felt conditions were suitable for a normal start.

3. Canada 2011 - leaving the SC out during the race until conditions were right for intermediates tyres rather than normal wets.

James1978 · Post by **James1978** » 17 Mar 2013, 14:00

It's funny reading at the top of this page how Kimi's comeback was predicted to be a failure....oops.

UncreativeUsername37 · Post by **UncreativeUsername37** » 18 Mar 2013, 01:14

ibsey wrote:3. Canada 2011 - leaving the SC out during the race until conditions were right for intermediates tyres rather than normal wets.

I don't know why they don't just give everyone seven sets of intermediates and obsoletify wets....