Unpopular F1 opinions

Salamander · Post by **Salamander** » 02 Feb 2013, 09:07

pasta_maldonado wrote:I actually think the red looks good on the Enstone E21

Frankly I think anything that makes it look less like the JPS Lotus makes it look better.

pi314159 · Post by **pi314159** » 02 Feb 2013, 10:02

BlindCaveSalamander wrote:
pasta_maldonado wrote:I actually think the red looks good on the Enstone E21

Frankly I think anything that makes it look less like the JPS Lotus makes it look better.

I also like the new livery. Last year, the red on the rear wing didn't fit in, but with the red on the sidepots, that's a lot better. And they stopped imitating a team which has only the name in common with them.

AndreaModa · Post by **AndreaModa** » 05 Feb 2013, 12:07

That is hands-down the best livery in F1 at the moment.

Aerospeed · Post by **Aerospeed** » 05 Feb 2013, 13:44

AndreaModa wrote:

That is hands-down the best livery in F1 at the moment.

It's the same as last year's...

Gerudo Dragon · Post by **Gerudo Dragon** » 05 Feb 2013, 16:53

Slightly off topic but GP2 is used in too many virtual championships.

Cynon · Post by **Cynon** » 05 Feb 2013, 16:53

Not really, they took all that red crap off the front of it.

The only liveries I don't like so far are the McLaren and the Mercedes.

Post by **Nuppiz** » 05 Feb 2013, 17:55

darkapprentice77 wrote:Slightly off topic but GP2 is used in too many virtual championships.

I'd personally like to see F1C used more often - if for nothing else than that I could work as a technical consultant and track database. :lol:

dinizintheoven · Post by **dinizintheoven** » 05 Feb 2013, 21:06

darkapprentice77 wrote:Slightly off topic but GP2 is used in too many virtual championships.

Maybe so, but it's the most customisable. Although, if there was a similar edit program for the original Microprose Grand Prix with all the tracks available that there are for GP2, including grip levels, consistency and the like, I'd still be using it for F1RMGP because GP2's randomiser is utterly horrid and I am still trying to devise ever more devious ways to overcome it...

Cynon · Post by **Cynon** » 06 Feb 2013, 01:28

dinizintheoven wrote:
darkapprentice77 wrote:Slightly off topic but GP2 is used in too many virtual championships.

Maybe so, but it's the most customisable. Although, if there was a similar edit program for the original Microprose Grand Prix with all the tracks available that there are for GP2, including grip levels, consistency and the like, I'd still be using it for F1RMGP because GP2's randomiser is utterly horrid and I am still trying to devise ever more devious ways to overcome it...

If I didn't have a Master's Degree, the TM Master Cup series, TM Lights, and (kind of) the ASCC to work on, I'd run a NR2003 league on here using one of the open wheel mods... problem is that the damage models leave a lot to be desired. There's plenty of F1 tracks or F1-style tracks to use, and plenty of fail tracks as well (how about the old Porto street circuit?! Brands Hatch GP layout, Suzuka, Suzuka East, Silverstone, Estoril, Norisring, just about every track V8SC runs on, Hungaroring...) to make things interesting...

I might still do it in the future.

CoopsII · Post by **CoopsII** » 08 Feb 2013, 08:43

If its a question of pay drivers or teams going bump I pick pay drivers every time.

RonDenisDeletraz · Post by **RonDenisDeletraz** » 08 Feb 2013, 08:45

CoopsII wrote:If its a question of pay drivers or teams going bump I pick pay drivers every time.

I agree completely, otherwise we would have a 10-12 car grid

DanielPT · Post by **DanielPT** » 08 Feb 2013, 11:52

eurobrun wrote:
CoopsII wrote:If its a question of pay drivers or teams going bump I pick pay drivers every time.

I agree completely, otherwise we would have a 10-12 car grid

Unless you let Mr Di Montezemolo to put his three car idea into practi... Or not. We might well close the door if that ever sees the day light.

FullMetalJack · Post by **FullMetalJack** » 08 Feb 2013, 13:04

CoopsII wrote:If its a question of pay drivers or teams going bump I pick pay drivers every time.

So would I, a lot of these pay drivers end up as rejects, who we grow to love.

CoopsII · Post by **CoopsII** » 08 Feb 2013, 13:18

DanielPT wrote:Unless you let Mr Di Montezemolo to put his three car idea into practi... Or not. We might well close the door if that ever sees the day light.

Errrrr

. I kinda hoped that was going to happen, if only for one season before the new teams appeared. I think it couldve made for an entertaining spectacle with the possibility of some serious aggro with potentially three top drivers in top cars.

Aw well.

DanielPT · Post by **DanielPT** » 08 Feb 2013, 15:56

CoopsII wrote:
DanielPT wrote:Unless you let Mr Di Montezemolo to put his three car idea into practi... Or not. We might well close the door if that ever sees the day light.

Errrrr . I kinda hoped that was going to happen, if only for one season before the new teams appeared. I think it couldve made for an entertaining spectacle with the possibility of some serious aggro with potentially three top drivers in top cars.

Aw well.

At the beginning yes, but with McLaren, Red Bull, Mercedes and Ferrari on the grid, the others being priced out, how much longer would F1 last without new blood? I would predict a money war with, of course, Mercedes and Red Bull jumping ship because they actually don't care much about F1 unless for marketing purposes. It would end with McLaren vs Ferrari, probably. Can't see much fun in that...

dinizintheoven · Post by **dinizintheoven** » 08 Feb 2013, 17:04

DanielPT wrote:At the beginning yes, but with McLaren, Red Bull, Mercedes and Ferrari on the grid, the others being priced out, how much longer would F1 last without new blood? I would predict a money war with, of course, Mercedes and Red Bull jumping ship because they actually don't care much about F1 unless for marketing purposes. It would end with McLaren vs Ferrari, probably. Can't see much fun in that...

So, a bit like recent DTM seasons, then? Merc versus Audi and nobody else, with some getting to run older cars...

I wonder if this would actually spring Formula Elaborate Bluff back into action?

Wallio · Post by **Wallio** » 08 Feb 2013, 18:32

DanielPT wrote:
CoopsII wrote:
DanielPT wrote:Unless you let Mr Di Montezemolo to put his three car idea into practi... Or not. We might well close the door if that ever sees the day light.

Errrrr . I kinda hoped that was going to happen, if only for one season before the new teams appeared. I think it couldve made for an entertaining spectacle with the possibility of some serious aggro with potentially three top drivers in top cars.

Aw well.

At the beginning yes, but with McLaren, Red Bull, Mercedes and Ferrari on the grid, the others being priced out, how much longer would F1 last without new blood? I would predict a money war with, of course, Mercedes and Red Bull jumping ship because they actually don't care much about F1 unless for marketing purposes. It would end with McLaren vs Ferrari, probably. Can't see much fun in that...

Huh? I imagine you said the same for Benetton then, and Hesketh before that, and BAR, and on and on. Seriously, Red Bull is NOT just a "fizzy drinks company". FACT: Right now they have a better F1 team than Ferrari and a better space program than NASA!

Post by **mario** » 08 Feb 2013, 22:23

Wallio wrote:Huh? I imagine you said the same for Benetton then, and Hesketh before that, and BAR, and on and on. Seriously, Red Bull is NOT just a "fizzy drinks company". FACT: Right now they have a better F1 team than Ferrari and a better space program than NASA!

I think that his point was more along the line that Red Bull is not commercially reliant on F1 in the same way that an outfit like McLaren, say, is.

It might reduce their public profile, but Red Bull would not be as materially affected if they withdrew from F1 because they are not reliant upon motorsport as their primary source of income and marketing - McLaren, by contrast, started out as a racing concern and are seeking to monetise their sporting heritage by spreading out into other markets. Even an outfit like Ferrari are still reliant upon F1 for their commercial model in a way that Red Bull isn't - much of Ferrari's brand value comes from it association with F1 and motorsport in general, whereas, ultimately, Red Bull's public image is much more malleable and could be adapted to work without the association with F1 much more easily.

Wallio · Post by **Wallio** » 09 Feb 2013, 03:31

True, but I would argue that Ferrari could go Le Mans racing again and it would work the same. But you're right in that Red Bull wouldn't fold if it quit F1.

CoopsII · Post by **CoopsII** » 09 Feb 2013, 17:48

DanielPT wrote:It would end with McLaren vs Ferrari, probably. Can't see much fun in that...

'Cause thats never been a seasons description :lol:

No, you're right. In terms of whats good for F1 three cars wouldnt work but if things got that bad, and they couldve and they may yet, it could solve a problem short-term. If it ever happened that we lost a good chunk of the teams completely then the remaining teams fielding and extra car would at least maintain a semblance of a Grand Prix. And, hell yeah, picture the teams with three cars to manage and three drivers to get the best out of. Perhaps two of the drivers would get on better and despise the third driver, form a pact and work to beat the other guy (Alonso, probably) ONLY for the pact to be dissolved in the heat of battle when agreed running orders are ignored and, and,

You get how I imagine it, then?

Gerudo Dragon · Post by **Gerudo Dragon** » 10 Feb 2013, 10:20

Michael Andretti deserved another shot at F1.

Ferrarist · Post by **Ferrarist** » 10 Feb 2013, 10:31

darkapprentice77 wrote:Michael Andretti deserved another shot at F1.

That's hardly unpopular. However, Michael went to F1 at the seemingly wrong time. Considering the superb performance of the Newman-Haas Lola in 1993 (Mansell would have almost won the Indy 500 that year!), Michael could have finally won Indy that year. He could have also gone to F1 in 1994, and without the driving aids, he may have found it more easy to fit into F1. Maybe his connections to Ford might have even earned him a seat at Benetton. Now imagine Michael Andretti driving alongside Michael Schumacher at Benetton in 1994. Doesn't sound too bad, doesn't it?

CoopsII · Post by **CoopsII** » 11 Feb 2013, 07:10

Ferrarist wrote:Now imagine Michael Andretti driving alongside Michael Schumacher at Benetton in 1994. Doesn't sound too bad, doesn't it?

If you've got a personal grudge against Andretti it sounds pretty great, actually. Even presuming Briatore hadnt sacked him by Estoril, by the end of the season he would've been so messed up by Schumachers games, cheating and, from time to time, sheer brilliance behind the wheel he possibly would've given up motorsport for good. Committing to two or three seasons to a mid table team like Jordan or Ligier, learning the job and the circuits, with a view on promotion if things went well would've been more sensible.

Oh, and moving to Europe and putting Mrs Andretti in her place (

)might have helped too.

EDIT:The Hockenheim fire wouldnt have happened though as Mr Andretti likes to show his pit-crew who's boss....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mh6ndqIIKD8

Post by **Londoner** » 11 Feb 2013, 17:04

CoopsII wrote:EDIT:The Hockenheim fire wouldnt have happened though as Mr Andretti likes to show his pit-crew who's boss....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mh6ndqIIKD8

Ye gods!

That was stupidly moronic from Andretti. 'Oh, I'll try and pull away from my stop while they're still working on the car. Can't see a problem here'. :roll:

CoopsII · Post by **CoopsII** » 12 Feb 2013, 07:53

East Londoner wrote:That was stupidly moronic from Andretti. 'Oh, I'll try and pull away from my stop while they're still working on the car. Can't see a problem here'.

Im not saying he has issues but that particular mechanic was ex-McLaren (not really).

Gerudo Dragon · Post by **Gerudo Dragon** » 13 Feb 2013, 19:02

Jenson Button drove better in 2004 than in 2009.

UncreativeUsername37 · Post by **UncreativeUsername37** » 13 Feb 2013, 19:46

darkapprentice77 wrote:Jenson Button drove better in 2004 than in 2009.

It's hard to tell how well someone is driving when they have a car far away from the rest of the field, whether it's way better or way worse.

andrew2209 · Post by **andrew2209** » 13 Feb 2013, 20:09

Paul di Resta is underrated.

Dj_bereta · Post by **Dj_bereta** » 13 Feb 2013, 20:19

Damon Hill was the best driver of 1997 season and with Williams or Ferrari, he was sure to win the title of that year.

takagi_for_the_win · Post by **takagi_for_the_win** » 13 Feb 2013, 21:04

Dj_bereta wrote:Damon Hill was the best driver of 1997 season and with Williams or Ferrari, he was sure to win the title of that year.

If you'd given him the Williams, he would've annihilated the field I think. Schumi would still have eaten him alive if Hill was in the Ferrari though.

FullMetalJack · Post by **FullMetalJack** » 13 Feb 2013, 21:11

Dj_bereta wrote:Damon Hill was the best driver of 1997 season and with Williams or Ferrari, he was sure to win the title of that year.

Olivier Panis says hello.

TomWazzleshaw · Post by **TomWazzleshaw** » 13 Feb 2013, 21:13

Dj_bereta wrote:Damon Hill was the best driver of 1997 season and with Williams or Ferrari, he was sure to win the title of that year.

I assume you're ignoring Australia when you say that, because Hill spent most of the weekend being in a thrilling battle... with the 107% rule.

Then again, both TWR Arrows were hopelessly off the pace that weekend so it may have been down more to the car and the tyres not being up to the task.

ibsey · Post by **ibsey** » 13 Feb 2013, 21:29

Wizzie wrote:
Dj_bereta wrote:Damon Hill was the best driver of 1997 season and with Williams or Ferrari, he was sure to win the title of that year.

I assume you're ignoring Australia when you say that, because Hill spent most of the weekend being in a thrilling battle... with the 107% rule.

Then again, both TWR Arrows were hopelessly off the pace that weekend so it may have been down more to the car and the tyres not being up to the task.

Or the times Hill was out qualified by his teammate Pedro Diniz, a man who was at the team largely down to the size of his wallet not his ability. Particularly as IIRC Pedro out qualified Hill at real drivers tracks like Spa & Suzuka, amongst others. Then there was the races in 1997 where Hill looked a little hopeless, like France or Spa. Decent driver in 1997 but by no means the best that year.

Although one has to say M Schumi was the 'best' driver of 1997. For me my driver of that year was Mika Hakkinen, I loved the way, when faced with getting the sack from Mclaren. He changed something in his approach & from Sliverstone 1997 onwards he was on it. Even after the massive disappointments at Austria or Nurburgring.

andrew2209 wrote:Paul di Resta is underrated.

Can't help but agree.

WeirdKerr · Post by **WeirdKerr** » 13 Feb 2013, 22:27

Not sure whether this is the right place but.....

Formula 1 is Irrelevent and there needs to be an all new World Drivers Championship in a variety of machinery to match different track surface conditions, say a couple races on ice in cars that are designed for ice racing, some rounds in the desert in dune buggy style cars etc...

Gerudo Dragon · Post by **Gerudo Dragon** » 13 Feb 2013, 22:28

WeirdKerr wrote:Not sure whether this is the right place but.....

Formula 1 is Irrelevent and there needs to be an all new World Drivers Championship in a variety of machinery to match different track surface conditions, say a couple races on ice in cars that are designed for ice racing, some rounds in the desert in dune buggy style cars etc...

So basically the Race Of Champions but over a whole season?

That could be interesting...

Onxy Wrecked · Post by **Onxy Wrecked** » 13 Feb 2013, 23:58

WeirdKerr wrote:Not sure whether this is the right place but.....

Formula 1 is Irrelevent and there needs to be an all new World Drivers Championship in a variety of machinery to match different track surface conditions, say a couple races on ice in cars that are designed for ice racing, some rounds in the desert in dune buggy style cars etc...

Robby Gordon would have been a very serious threat in this in his prime back when he could win even in NASCAR, but he's now running a stadium trucks series and became a backmarker when he does race in anything.

CoopsII · Post by **CoopsII** » 14 Feb 2013, 07:50

ibsey wrote:Although one has to say M Schumi was the 'best' driver of 1997. For me my driver of that year was Mika Hakkinen, I loved the way, when faced with getting the sack from Mclaren. He changed something in his approach & from Sliverstone 1997 onwards he was on it.

I dont remember Mika ever being on the verge of being binned by McLaren? I read he had talks with teams like Benetton before he re-signed but I dont think he was ever out of favour with Ron Dennis.

Cynon · Post by **Cynon** » 14 Feb 2013, 09:04

Onxy Wrecked wrote:
WeirdKerr wrote:Not sure whether this is the right place but.....

Formula 1 is Irrelevent and there needs to be an all new World Drivers Championship in a variety of machinery to match different track surface conditions, say a couple races on ice in cars that are designed for ice racing, some rounds in the desert in dune buggy style cars etc...

Robby Gordon would have been a very serious threat in this in his prime back when he could win even in NASCAR, but he's now running a stadium trucks series and became a backmarker when he does race in anything.

Robby Gordon ran NASCAR with his own equipment and had about 10% of the budget everyone else. He is capable of putting together a good off road program.

You should know that by now...

Klon · Post by **Klon** » 14 Feb 2013, 11:43

CoopsII wrote:
ibsey wrote:Although one has to say M Schumi was the 'best' driver of 1997. For me my driver of that year was Mika Hakkinen, I loved the way, when faced with getting the sack from Mclaren. He changed something in his approach & from Sliverstone 1997 onwards he was on it.

I dont remember Mika ever being on the verge of being binned by McLaren? I read he had talks with teams like Benetton before he re-signed but I dont think he was ever out of favour with Ron Dennis.

Well, maybe not with Dennis but, unlike him, Mercedes-Benz were probably not guilt-tripping over Adalaide 1995 so I can see why they may have started to build pressure to consider replacing Mika given that until the second half of 1997 his career was kind of stagnating.

ibsey · Post by **ibsey** » 14 Feb 2013, 17:22

Klon wrote:
CoopsII wrote:
ibsey wrote:Although one has to say M Schumi was the 'best' driver of 1997. For me my driver of that year was Mika Hakkinen, I loved the way, when faced with getting the sack from Mclaren. He changed something in his approach & from Sliverstone 1997 onwards he was on it.

I dont remember Mika ever being on the verge of being binned by McLaren? I read he had talks with teams like Benetton before he re-signed but I dont think he was ever out of favour with Ron Dennis.

Well, maybe not with Dennis but, unlike him, Mercedes-Benz were probably not guilt-tripping over Adalaide 1995 so I can see why they may have started to build pressure to consider replacing Mika given that until the second half of 1997 his career was kind of stagnating.

Perhaps I could have worded my originally post slightly better? Whislt Mika may not have not been on the verge of being binned by Mclaren in mid 1997. I think it is fair to say that doubt's were starting to creep around mid 1997, over whether Mika would be keeping his Mclaren seat. Mainly owning to his lackluster performances just prior to the 1997 British GP. Especially in comparison to what Coulthard had been doing for Mclaren at this same time. For instance here's Martin Brundle's 1997 mid season report;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B9TdQDN-Ko4

(Skip to 1:45)

In case you were not aware this was aired lived in ITV's build up coverage to the 1997 British GP Quali session. I vividly remember Simon Taylor (then ITV pundit) responding to this piece by saying how he thought that giving Mika only a C plus was extremely harsh especially in light of Mika going fastest in both the test session at Sliverstone just to the 1997 British GP and the final Saturday Morning free practice session. Also IIRC either Simon Taylor or Tony Jardine (the other ITV pundit) then talked about how Mika had said how he changed something about his approach to motor racing, which enabled him to turn his form around prior to Sliverstone 1997.

As far as I am aware, Mika never did mention what it was that he changed in his approach around that time. But whatever it was it certainly seemed to work a treat, as he looked a completely different driver in the 2nd half of the 1997 season. In comparison to the Mika we saw in the 1st half of 1997. That's why I mentioned Mika's change of approach in my earlier post. As ever since then I have always wondered what it was Mika changed exactly? I have a few ideas but would love to hear the truth from anyone who might know?

Anyway back to question of how much uncertainty was there surrounding Mika staying at Mclaren in mid 1997. IIRC when Damon Hill was apparently offered a Mclaren seat for 1998 (around Hungary 1997). IIRC it wasn't clear whether it would have been Mika or David who would have had to make way for Hill. I'm fairly certain I read an article in a newspaper around that time, which was suggesting it was more likely to be Mika making way for Hill rather than Coulthard. As I can recall a quote from Coulthard something along the lines of, "I have no problem with Hill joining Mclaren for 1998 as long as he is my teammate".

Also given that by Hungary 1997 Coulthard had won a couple of races in F1 (including one for Mclaren) where as Mika had still yet to win any. Then taking into account various other things like PR ability etc, If I was to hazard a guess, I tend to think it had Hill signed for Mclaren around Hungary 1997. Then it would have been Mika making way for him, not David. What a mistake that would prove to be, with the benefit of hindsight.