Ponderbox

[ibsey]

Everyone bangs on about the well know cases of teammate rivalry like that of Prost & Senna at Mclaren. And how some teams / engine suppliers might have favored one driver over another another etc. So this got me thinking has there ever been any similar cases of either teammates hating one another, or a team covertly favoring / sabotaging one its drivers over another, at the lower end of the grid?

Well, we had Andrea Moda who wanted Perry McCarthy dead.

Good call Klon. Completely forgot about that one & the whole "let Pel out" story behind it. Shame on me. Anyone know of any other simliarily funny stories like.

[Shizuka]

For what did Grönholm get slated for???

Possibly because of his 2007 end-season, dropping a very likely third title in the end of the season.
I am not mentioning the constant bashing of the 307 WRC, because he was not only entitled to do so (if you have your lead driver constantly moaning about the gearbox, you know that it sucks), he had valid reasons to back it up. It just sucked compared to the 206 WRC, which could have been used for those two seasons until PSA pulled the plug.
I can't say anything else why, because I have no idea.

[DemocalypseNow]

For what did Grönholm get slated for???

Possibly because of his 2007 end-season, dropping a very likely third title in the end of the season.
I am not mentioning the constant bashing of the 307 WRC, because he was not only entitled to do so (if you have your lead driver constantly moaning about the gearbox, you know that it sucks), he had valid reasons to back it up. It just sucked compared to the 206 WRC, which could have been used for those two seasons until PSA pulled the plug.
I can't say anything else why, because I have no idea.

Indeed, the 307 was clearly terrible, if the car only has four gears instead of six to start with, and then fourth gear breaks so you only have the first three, on one of the fastest stages of the entire WRC calendar, it's a really sucky position to be in. And it would happen quite a lot.

Peugeot didn't need to use the 307 CC, they did it for a marketing decision rather than a sporting one and it was a really stupid decision. But despite it, Gronholm stayed loyal to the team that gave him his big break in WRC until they folded.

He also seems willing to accept when he makes mistakes, like in Rally Mexico when he crashed out and restarted under superally. He said the car is good but his driving sucks. Sure, he's more talkative than the Raikkonens and Hakkinens, but still, he is direct and honest in the same way. Not as blunt, but still, partly the same idea.

[takagi_for_the_win]

...Sure, he's more talkative than the Raikkonens and Hakkinens...

Is it really possible to be less talkative than that pair??

[girry]

"losing" two titles (06 & 07) to Loeb, who wasn't at the top of his game yet back then - and since Marcus was also viewed as a bit of a cock by some people, that makes them say his head was paper, cracked under pressure, talks too much for his own good, etc etc.

Backstabbing is a popular thing here.

[Shizuka]

"losing" two titles (06 & 07) to Loeb, who wasn't at the top of his game yet back then

07 is what I can agree with, 06 is something of a so-so area. I do agree that he should have made good use of Loeb's armbreaking incident. Ford still won the constructors', though.

[DemocalypseNow]

"losing" two titles (06 & 07) to Loeb, who wasn't at the top of his game yet back then - and since Marcus was also viewed as a bit of a cock by some people, that makes them say his head was paper, cracked under pressure, talks too much for his own good, etc etc.

Backstabbing is a popular thing here.

Wow, apparently you need to be really really polite and reserved to not be labeled a cock in Finland then! He doesn't seem like a very offensive person to me at all, I really can't understand that...

[Nessafox]

...Sure, he's more talkative than the Raikkonens and Hakkinens...

Is it really possible to be less talkative than that pair??

Yes

[DanielPT]

...Sure, he's more talkative than the Raikkonens and Hakkinens...

Is it really possible to be less talkative than that pair??

...

Fixed

[Shizuka]

...Sure, he's more talkative than the Raikkonens and Hakkinens...

Is it really possible to be less talkative than that pair??

Yes

Kimi, please, we got no time to read your book about that.

[DonTirri]

And I don't think anyone here can come up with a criticism of him either. Or at least, a sensible one.

I've heard this 'no one has a bad word about Häkkinen' statement here on these forums too, yet both Grönholm and Häkkinen have received a good share of slate in their home country...not as much as some others but enough anyway.

Maybe it's just some kind of a trait of ours to find flaws in all our own athletes then ....

wait what? What slate has Häkkinen received here? The closest thing to that I can come up with (and I've been following his career very closely since 1994) from memory is the moanings that he retired too soon.

[girry]

Too blunt. Acted incorrectly on the podium. Too bad english. Too slow. Couldn't develop the mclaren. His wife was too much in TV. Plus his car was too good. followed to infinity...



.....you must never have discussed with the know-it-all-of-any-sports in the tables of any petrolstations and workplaces?

[DonTirri]

Too blunt. Acted incorrectly on the podium. Too bad english. Too slow. Couldn't develop the mclaren. His wife was too much in TV. Plus his car was too good. followed to infinity...



.....you must never have discussed with the know-it-all-of-any-sports in the tables of any petrolstations and workplaces?

Oh. I thought you meant SERIOUS slate.

We Finns are a shitty people. We don't care about athletes until they become successful and then we slag on them because they are TOO successful. I tend to ignore any of that kind of know-it-all jealous bs because lets face it, it's just petty people talking their mouths off on people who are what they will never be. Successful.

[DemocalypseNow]

Let me make this clear ahead of time to avoid any confusions; this is not a personal attack of any kind. I'm assuming these statements are sweeping generalisations made by the more ignorant racing 'fans' in Finland. Here's what perplexes me so much about this statement;

Too blunt.

Good. Being polite in Formula One never got anyone anywhere.

Acted incorrectly on the podium.

I didn't realise there was a 'correct' way. Personally I couldn't give a damn how someone acted on a podium, they can moon the crowd for all I care.

Too bad english.

So what? Not everyone is brilliant at languages. I have been trying to learn Italian for a while and pretty much failing, which is frustrating. It's just not a strong point of mine. Maybe it's the same for him too.

Too slow.

Now this is just stupid. He was a great qualifier. Maybe Schumacher could outrace him sometimes but it wasn't by much, and he also had his fair share of completely dominant performances. He repeatedly trounced everyone at Catalunya for example. He outqualified Ayrton freaking Senna on his McLaren debut. This is just total nonsense...

I don't understand how people can be saying these things at all, it's just sheer and total ignorance. It reminds me of the average Brazilian F1 viewer. Yes, we've got some Brazilians here that clearly know their stuff, but there are others, the drunken idiots who only watch F1 once a year by going to Interlagos, and follow whatever Galvao Bueno tells them to. No wonder Barrichello was always booed, he has often been second class in Galvao's eyes. They got used to having the best driver in the world with Senna, and now when another Brazilian comes along and inevitably doesn't live up to the same standards, they get slated. It's ridiculous.

OK, look, sure, I complain when Inter Milan are losing for example. But I'm complaining because I care and I'm feeling total despair. I'm never booing them, just getting frustrated at them. But many F1 'fans' don't seem to do the same.

[Salamander]

Let me make this clear ahead of time to avoid any confusions; this is not a personal attack of any kind. I'm assuming these statements are sweeping generalisations made by the more ignorant racing 'fans' in Finland. Here's what perplexes me so much about this statement;

Too blunt.

Good. Being polite in Formula One never got anyone anywhere.

Acted incorrectly on the podium.

I didn't realise there was a 'correct' way. Personally I couldn't give a damn how someone acted on a podium, they can moon the crowd for all I care.

Too bad english.

So what? Not everyone is brilliant at languages. I have been trying to learn Italian for a while and pretty much failing, which is frustrating. It's just not a strong point of mine. Maybe it's the same for him too.

Too slow.

Now this is just stupid. He was a great qualifier. Maybe Schumacher could outrace him sometimes but it wasn't by much, and he also had his fair share of completely dominant performances. He repeatedly trounced everyone at Catalunya for example. He outqualified Ayrton freaking Senna on his McLaren debut. This is just total nonsense...

I don't understand how people can be saying these things at all, it's just sheer and total ignorance. It reminds me of the average Brazilian F1 viewer. Yes, we've got some Brazilians here that clearly know their stuff, but there are others, the drunken idiots who only watch F1 once a year by going to Interlagos, and follow whatever Galvao Bueno tells them to. No wonder Barrichello was always booed, he has often been second class in Galvao's eyes. They got used to having the best driver in the world with Senna, and now when another Brazilian comes along and inevitably doesn't live up to the same standards, they get slated. It's ridiculous.

OK, look, sure, I complain when Inter Milan are losing for example. But I'm complaining because I care and I'm feeling total despair. I'm never booing them, just getting frustrated at them. But many F1 'fans' don't seem to do the same.

Yeah, that's the problem with making sport entertainment. You attract a lot of fair-weather fans who turn against you the moment you slip up even once.

[dinizintheoven]

So what? Not everyone is brilliant at languages. I have been trying to learn Italian for a while and pretty much failing, which is frustrating. It's just not a strong point of mine. Maybe it's the same for him too.

If that's the case, then you're doing a fine job disguising it with the mock-up Gazzetta dello Sport pages. My knowledge of Italian stretches as far as being able to get a table for two at a restaurant outside on the terrace, and not understanding the reply.

[pasta_maldonado]

So what? Not everyone is brilliant at languages. I have been trying to learn Italian for a while and pretty much failing, which is frustrating. It's just not a strong point of mine. Maybe it's the same for him too.

If that's the case, then you're doing a fine job disguising it with the mock-up Gazzetta dello Sport pages. My knowledge of Italian stretches as far as being able to get a table for two at a restaurant outside on the terrace, and not understanding the reply.

My Italian stretches to 'Bonjourno!"

[RonDenisDeletraz]

Cazzo

That is the full extent of my knowledge in Italian

[lgaquino]

(...) but there are others, the drunken idiots who only watch F1 once a year by going to Interlagos, and follow whatever Galvao Bueno tells them to.
OK, look, sure, I complain when Inter Milan are losing for example. But I'm complaining because I care and I'm feeling total despair. I'm never booing them, just getting frustrated at them. But many F1 'fans' don't seem to do the same.

Yep. That's pretty much it. But I still find it better than that in football..
maybe the issue is that those 'fans' are the same people?

[dr-baker]

My knowledge of Italian? Acquae Minerale. Risotto. Lasagne. Bolognese. Carbonara. Toro Rosso. Tagliatelli. Et cetera. You get the idea - the first is a corner at Imola ( ), the rest is just food and drink...

Where is Sunshine Baby to put all our Italian to shame?

[Nessafox]

My knowledge of Italian? Acquae Minerale. Risotto. Lasagne. Bolognese. Carbonara. Toro Rosso. Tagliatelli. Et cetera. You get the idea - the first is a corner at Imola ( ), the rest is just food and drink...

Where is Sunshine Baby to put all our Italian to shame?

And this is my knowledge of Italian http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ie6zt-6yfuI and i don't think there's much more i need to know.

[Mouthy316]

My knowledge of Italian? Acquae Minerale. Risotto. Lasagne. Bolognese. Carbonara. Toro Rosso. Tagliatelli. Et cetera. You get the idea - the first is a corner at Imola ( ), the rest is just food and drink...

Where is Sunshine Baby to put all our Italian to shame?

Being half Italian I should know more but unfortunately my mother couldn't be bothered to teach me!
Still I know a few words and "Acquae Minerale" does actually mean "Mineral Water", not got the same impact for the name of a corner though does it?

[Meatwad]

My knowledge of Italian? Acquae Minerale. Risotto. Lasagne. Bolognese. Carbonara. Toro Rosso. Tagliatelli. Et cetera. You get the idea - the first is a corner at Imola ( ), the rest is just food and drink...

I have never had Toro Rosso. Is it good?

[dr-baker]

Still I know a few words and "Acquae Minerale" does actually mean "Mineral Water", not got the same impact for the name of a corner though does it?

I know, I have actually been to a restaurant in Italy and asked for Acquae Minerale. The tour rep was impressed...

I have never had Toro Rosso. Is it good?

I haven't, although my dad and sister seem to like it. It smells horrible and sickly.

[Divina_Galica]

But our racers in any series never hear anything against them. Although that might be because Australians only think that there is one F1 race a year (which we can't win), one MotoGP race a year (which we always win), have never heard of IndyCar or NASCAR and they're all Aussies in the V8s, apart from the Kiwis.

....apart from the Frenchman and the German this year - plus a couple of the Aussies were born in the UK (Ingall and Coulthard I think)

I know what you mean though.

DG

[Divina_Galica]

So what? Not everyone is brilliant at languages. I have been trying to learn Italian for a while and pretty much failing, which is frustrating. It's just not a strong point of mine. Maybe it's the same for him too.

If that's the case, then you're doing a fine job disguising it with the mock-up Gazzetta dello Sport pages. My knowledge of Italian stretches as far as being able to get a table for two at a restaurant outside on the terrace, and not understanding the reply.

As someone recently said it is easy asking directions in a foreign country, it is understanding the answer that is the problem

DG

[DemocalypseNow]

My knowledge of Italian? Acquae Minerale. Risotto. Lasagne. Bolognese. Carbonara. Toro Rosso. Tagliatelli. Et cetera. You get the idea - the first is a corner at Imola ( ), the rest is just food and drink...

Where is Sunshine Baby to put all our Italian to shame?

And this is my knowledge of Italian http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ie6zt-6yfuI and i don't think there's much more i need to know.

Musica d'Italia? There is more you need to know...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6hhsgDnTYW8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=19HT0w1uW4A
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MiJ2B8PFjqU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hU4IoTojxI4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8dKLTEr6mMs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uXhBauj_Ooo

And of course, my favourite Italian song of all time

[Ataxia]

So what? Not everyone is brilliant at languages. I have been trying to learn Italian for a while and pretty much failing, which is frustrating. It's just not a strong point of mine. Maybe it's the same for him too.

If that's the case, then you're doing a fine job disguising it with the mock-up Gazzetta dello Sport pages. My knowledge of Italian stretches as far as being able to get a table for two at a restaurant outside on the terrace, and not understanding the reply.

As someone recently said it is easy asking directions in a foreign country, it is understanding the answer that is the problem

DG

I'm completely the opposite, I can read and understand the gist of what people are saying in Spanish, but I can't speak it too well.

I've got a Dutch friend, and she's lived in the Netherlands all her life. Yet, her English is flawless; when she speaks, she sounds a lot like Nigella Lawson.

[dr-baker]

So what? Not everyone is brilliant at languages. I have been trying to learn Italian for a while and pretty much failing, which is frustrating. It's just not a strong point of mine. Maybe it's the same for him too.

If that's the case, then you're doing a fine job disguising it with the mock-up Gazzetta dello Sport pages. My knowledge of Italian stretches as far as being able to get a table for two at a restaurant outside on the terrace, and not understanding the reply.

As someone recently said it is easy asking directions in a foreign country, it is understanding the answer that is the problem

DG

I once had a Frenchman ask me for directions while I was living in Avignon, and I was able to answer him in French. I was impressed by that: the role-plays of that scenario in French lessons at school were not in vain!

[Nuppiz]

The news about Chavez's passing got me thinking... Urho Kekkonen was pretty much the de facto dictator of Finland in the 1960s and especially 1970s, and most of his decisions were easily accepted by the parliament. Had he been passionate about motorsports, then maybe we could've a more world-class racing track, or at the very least Keimola could've stayed active longer?

[Klon]

The news about Chavez's passing got me thinking... Urho Kekkonen was pretty much the de facto dictator of Finland in the 1960s and especially 1970s, and most of his decisions were easily accepted by the parliament. Had he been passionate about motorsports, then maybe we could've a more world-class racing track, or at the very least Keimola could've stayed active longer?

Probably. Given that Mussolini managed to get his nation two soccer world championships (and one of them could maybe have been Germany's if Hitler had bothered with soccer), the influence of those in power on sports cannot be denied. Man, I wish I was Bundeskanzler. Then the whole Nürburgring debacle wouldn't have been an issue in the first place. Or we would have gotten a nice German street track out of it.

[Hound55]

The news about Chavez's passing got me thinking... Urho Kekkonen was pretty much the de facto dictator of Finland in the 1960s and especially 1970s, and most of his decisions were easily accepted by the parliament. Had he been passionate about motorsports, then maybe we could've a more world-class racing track, or at the very least Keimola could've stayed active longer?

Well, if I were the dictator of Finland, then I would have done that.

But all of the recent discussion about Bahrain and Chavez have made me wonder about just how governments around the world impact F1. There is stuff like the Elf sponsorship to the recent human rights protests in Bahrain, and I think that the first race behind the Iron Curtain must have been heavily influenced by Soviet governmental decisions. The the pre-war German manufacturers are another example. It would be really interesting to learn about this sort of stuff...

[mario]

The news about Chavez's passing got me thinking... Urho Kekkonen was pretty much the de facto dictator of Finland in the 1960s and especially 1970s, and most of his decisions were easily accepted by the parliament. Had he been passionate about motorsports, then maybe we could've a more world-class racing track, or at the very least Keimola could've stayed active longer?

Well, if I were the dictator of Finland, then I would have done that.

But all of the recent discussion about Bahrain and Chavez have made me wonder about just how governments around the world impact F1. There is stuff like the Elf sponsorship to the recent human rights protests in Bahrain, and I think that the first race behind the Iron Curtain must have been heavily influenced by Soviet governmental decisions. The the pre-war German manufacturers are another example. It would be really interesting to learn about this sort of stuff...

In the case of Bahrain, the impact is not just in terms of the race itself, but also in terms of the influence they have on the McLaren team (the Mumtalakat Holding Company, which is a Bahraini sovereign wealth fund, owns 50% of McLaren Group and effectively financed development of the MP4-12C and the new facilities required to build the car).

[takagi_for_the_win]

Is it just me, or was F1 Deprivation nowhere near as bad this winter as it was last year?

[dr-baker]

Is it just me, or was F1 Deprivation nowhere near as bad this winter as it was last year?

I wonder if the Perry McCarthy Forum helped to alleviate it more this time?

[Nessafox]

Is it just me, or was F1 Deprivation nowhere near as bad this winter as it was last year?

I wonder if the Perry McCarthy Forum helped to alleviate it more this time?

It's because the forum was gone for a week, so we missed the climax.

Probably we are all so much used to F1 Deprivation that we expect more from it each time.

[pasta_maldonado]

Is it just me, or was F1 Deprivation nowhere near as bad this winter as it was last year?

I wonder if the Perry McCarthy Forum helped to alleviate it more this time?

It's because the forum was gone for a week, so we missed the climax.

Probably we are all so much used to F1 Deprivation that we expect more from it each time.

Almost had a heart attack earlier when I realised that the Australian Grand Prix was next weekend

[AdrianSutil]

Epic fail for me though, I thought it was last weekend

[Gerudo Dragon]

Do F1 drivers have to have a normal driving license?

[AndreaModa]

Do F1 drivers have to have a normal driving license?

Not as far as I'm aware. You certainly can't expect to progress through the junior series with one because most of the kids are too young. I know for bikes that the riders don't need a road licence.