Rantbox

Salamander · Post by **Salamander** » 17 Apr 2013, 15:03

I think 'I know what I'm doing' stopped being funny about a week after Abu Dhabi, and now whatever humour value it had to start with (which wasn't much) has been driven into the ground so completely it's practically popped out of the ground on the opposite side of the planet and been flung in the deep recesses of space.

CoopsII · Post by **CoopsII** » 17 Apr 2013, 17:27

DonTirri wrote:He'd probably just ignore any team orders, either by pretending languagebarrier or by telling them he knows what hes doing

He'd just ignore them full stop. Pretending anything would require too much effort :lol:

GwilymJJames · Post by **GwilymJJames** » 17 Apr 2013, 21:49

The year is 2013. There is a female team principal at Sauber. There is a female deputy team principal at Williams. The BBC coverage is hosted by a woman. There is a female test driver at Williams, there was another one last season at Marussia, and a woman has just joined the Red Bull young driver programme.

Why, therefore, are the most prominent women at most races the 22 scantily-clad models employed to do a job that could be done by a block of concrete, namely holding up a sign? It's a completely pointless anachronism, and should be ended.

Salamander · Post by **Salamander** » 17 Apr 2013, 21:55

GwilymJJames wrote:The year is 2013. There is a female team principal at Sauber. There is a female deputy team principal at Williams. The BBC coverage is hosted by a woman. There is a female test driver at Williams, there was another one last season at Marussia, and a woman has just joined the Red Bull young driver programme.

Why, therefore, are the most prominent women at most races the 22 scantily-clad models employed to do a job that could be done by a block of concrete, namely holding up a sign? It's a completely pointless anachronism, and should be ended.

Prominent? Why is it that we hardly if ever see them on the TV coverage, then? Though I do agree, I don't see the point in grid girls.

Klon · Post by **Klon** » 17 Apr 2013, 22:16

BlindCaveSalamander wrote:Prominent? Why is it that we hardly if ever see them on the TV coverage, then? Though I do agree, I don't see the point in grid girls.

On RTL they get interviewed occasionally but Kaltenborn and whoever that woman on the BBC is have a lot more significance and more relevant parts of the program than the grid girls. Well, I for my part think we should keep grid girls/boys. Occasionally they are nice to look at. If we'd hunt down anachronisms we would first need to get rid of the lack of a #13 on the grid and add TC and a boatload of driver aids. :lol:

FullMetalJack · Post by **FullMetalJack** » 17 Apr 2013, 22:26

GwilymJJames wrote:The year is 2013. There is a female team principal at Sauber. There is a female deputy team principal at Williams. The BBC coverage is hosted by a woman. There is a female test driver at Williams, there was another one last season at Marussia, and a woman has just joined the Red Bull young driver programme.

Why, therefore, are the most prominent women at most races the 22 scantily-clad models employed to do a job that could be done by a block of concrete, namely holding up a sign? It's a completely pointless anachronism, and should be ended.

Before 2012, Tanja Bauer was quite prominent in BBC's coverage. Purely thanks to Martin Brundle's gridwalks, where Martin would flirt with her without fail. Made for some decent television.

Shadaza · Post by **Shadaza** » 18 Apr 2013, 00:44

GwilymJJames wrote:The year is 2013. There is a female team principal at Sauber. There is a female deputy team principal at Williams. The BBC coverage is hosted by a woman. There is a female test driver at Williams, there was another one last season at Marussia, and a woman has just joined the Red Bull young driver programme.

Why, therefore, are the most prominent women at most races the 22 scantily-clad models employed to do a job that could be done by a block of concrete, namely holding up a sign? It's a completely pointless anachronism, and should be ended.

What annoys me more is the post race ceremony where the walk to the podium is lined with clapping girls, what does this add? To me it strikes of "It is the man's job to race and the woman's to cheer them on."

The young men do the racing, the old men present the prizes and the women are decorations.

CoopsII · Post by **CoopsII** » 18 Apr 2013, 07:11

Shadaza wrote:What annoys me more is the post race ceremony where the walk to the podium is lined with clapping girls, what does this add? To me it strikes of "It is the man's job to race and the woman's to cheer them on."

The young men do the racing, the old men present the prizes and the women are decorations.

That and grid girls in general dont really belong in the modern age to me. Get rid. Perhaps when Bernie has gone the new person we revamp some of the more archaic aspects of F1. Can you believe the old ITV F1 site actually had pages of 'the best grid girls' for dirty old men to lift their, ahem, spirits to?

madmark1974 · Post by **madmark1974** » 18 Apr 2013, 09:28

CoopsII wrote:
Shadaza wrote:What annoys me more is the post race ceremony where the walk to the podium is lined with clapping girls, what does this add? To me it strikes of "It is the man's job to race and the woman's to cheer them on."

The young men do the racing, the old men present the prizes and the women are decorations.

That and grid girls in general dont really belong in the modern age to me. Get rid. Perhaps when Bernie has gone the new person we revamp some of the more archaic aspects of F1. Can you believe the old ITV F1 site actually had pages of 'the best grid girls' for dirty old men to lift their, ahem, spirits to?

Meanwhile in America ... some girls aspire to become cheerleaders ... Now, I understand that some American sports are rather slow and may need a bit of entertainment in between the action, but at least the girls are part of the show
rather than a peripheral attraction. Also, to point out, MotoGP still 'embraces' the grid girls, even posting pictures on Facebook and asking for comments, and the MCN girls at BSB meetings are also highly publicised.

Whilst I agree that the girls do not need to be there, I think we'd miss them if they were gone, and it gives me a chance to wind the missus up a bit if she's watching, so I'm all for 'em!

DonTirri · Post by **DonTirri** » 18 Apr 2013, 16:10

CoopsII wrote:
Shadaza wrote:What annoys me more is the post race ceremony where the walk to the podium is lined with clapping girls, what does this add? To me it strikes of "It is the man's job to race and the woman's to cheer them on."

The young men do the racing, the old men present the prizes and the women are decorations.

That and grid girls in general dont really belong in the modern age to me. Get rid. Perhaps when Bernie has gone the new person we revamp some of the more archaic aspects of F1. Can you believe the old ITV F1 site actually had pages of 'the best grid girls' for dirty old men to lift their, ahem, spirits to?

So... Cheerleaders are wrong and should be removed too? I don't get people like this. Why is it so wrong to have things like Cheerleaders and Grid Girls? "objectification of women" "sexist" "archaic" blah blah blah.

I doubt any of said girls is FORCED to go stand there as eye candy. Let's face it, a lot of women actually ENJOY that kinda work. And no matter how much feminists etc try to cry foul, it won't change that fact.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not a "woman oughta be in the kitchen, barefoot and pregnant" kinda guy, I just don't understand what's so damn wrong about eyecandy.

CoopsII · Post by **CoopsII** » 18 Apr 2013, 16:32

DonTirri wrote:So... Cheerleaders are wrong and should be removed too? I don't get people like this. Why is it so wrong to have things like Cheerleaders and Grid Girls? "objectification of women" "sexist" "archaic" blah blah blah.

Hey thats great! You ask a question and then answer it yourself, what a time saver!

DonTirri · Post by **DonTirri** » 18 Apr 2013, 16:41

CoopsII wrote:
DonTirri wrote:So... Cheerleaders are wrong and should be removed too? I don't get people like this. Why is it so wrong to have things like Cheerleaders and Grid Girls? "objectification of women" "sexist" "archaic" blah blah blah.

Hey thats great! You ask a question and then answer it yourself, what a time saver!

And of course you ignore the rest of my post

Again, is it any of those three things if said women are voluntarily participating in it?

Or wait, are you taking the stance used by any fundie, be it feminist, religious, racist etc etc by stating "They don't know whats in their best interest" and/or "The society has made them that way"?

Go on, I'm honestly interested.

CoopsII · Post by **CoopsII** » 18 Apr 2013, 16:51

DonTirri wrote:And of course you ignore the rest of my post Again, is it any of those three things if said women are voluntarily participating in it?

I didnt ignore the rest of the post I just quoted what I found amusing in that what you were asking you provided the answers to. Yes, yes, you will always find women happy to be objectified in some way but when the medium is such a global one perhaps a more modern example should be being set. F1 is currently saying 'yes women can be in F1' whilst simultaneously old bezzers like Bernie and Sir Stirling are metaphorically wolf-whistling them and patting their bums. I want my daughter and other young women to view F1 as something they can relate to not some global Benny Hill sketch.

If that Benny Hill reference doesnt fly in Finland I apologise.

DonTirri · Post by **DonTirri** » 18 Apr 2013, 17:06

CoopsII wrote:
DonTirri wrote:And of course you ignore the rest of my post Again, is it any of those three things if said women are voluntarily participating in it?

I didnt ignore the rest of the post I just quoted what I found amusing in that what you were asking you provided the answers to. Yes, yes, you will always find women happy to be objectified in some way but when the medium is such a global one perhaps a more modern example should be being set. F1 is currently saying 'yes women can be in F1' whilst simultaneously old bezzers like Bernie and Sir Stirling are metaphorically wolf-whistling them and patting their bums. I want my daughter and other young women to view F1 as something they can relate to not some global Benny Hill sketch.

If that Benny Hill reference doesnt fly in Finland I apologise.

Sooo... let me get this straight: The fact that F1 uses a tradition ages old and accepted world wide in a multitude of sports, one that basically nobody bats an eyelid to... Makes it s "Benny Hill Sketch"? And how is it that they somehow are at odds with Women racing in F1? (which btw I'd love to see) Also, lets be realistic: If young women don't find F1 interesting or attractive or whatnot, I don't think the usage of Grid Girls is even on the top 10 of reasons.

And if you think that... I don't know what to say.

CoopsII · Post by **CoopsII** » 18 Apr 2013, 17:21

DonTirri wrote:Sooo... let me get this straight: The fact that F1 uses a tradition ages old and accepted world wide in a multitude of sports, one that basically nobody bats an eyelid to... Makes it s "Benny Hill Sketch"? And how is it that they somehow are at odds with Women racing in F1? (which btw I'd love to see) Also, lets be realistic: If young women don't find F1 interesting or attractive or whatnot, I don't think the usage of Grid Girls is even on the top 10 of reasons.

And if you think that... I don't know what to say.

You not knowing what to say? That'll be the day. The age of the tradition is the point, its from a different age. Just as some of the risks the drivers took were viewed as acceptable nowadays they are not. I cannot think of a multitude of sports that exhibit women in the same way. Beach volleyball,perhaps. To get women interested in F1 it does at least have to appear less of a Boys Club.

Benny Hill in Finland. Who knew?

DanielPT · Post by **DanielPT** » 18 Apr 2013, 17:28

DonTirri wrote:
Sooo... let me get this straight: The fact that F1 uses a tradition ages old and accepted world wide in a multitude of sports, one that basically nobody bats an eyelid to...

Not true. Cycling are in the middle of a discussion process in order to get rid of podium girls altogether. You know, the ones that kiss the cheeks of riders when they receive their prizes?

Although it only happened because one of the riders present in the podium decided that it was a good idea to pinch a buttock belonging to one of these girls, which guaranteed him a huge barrage of criticism.

Klon · Post by **Klon** » 18 Apr 2013, 19:23

CoopsII wrote:I cannot think of a multitude of sports that exhibit women in the same way. Beach volleyball,perhaps.

Any female sport in the history of ever that has or had a TV presence works with their looks (it is most certainly not for sporting reasons alone that a women's tennis match sounds like a lesbian adult movie). It is harder to find a sport that doesn't. Motorsport is actually one of them because racing outfits are not the most bodyhugging ones and aside from Danica Patrick, how many female drivers have actually had photo shoots and stuff like that?

CoopsII wrote:To get women interested in F1 it does at least have to appear less of a Boys Club.

The only type of woman that would be avoiding motorsport despite having developed an interest in it despite of grid girls is the type of woman we should not have in F1 anyway. You will find most women who complain about things being "Boy's Club" and products of "patriarchy" are women who are not good enough to make it legitimately. I may be wrong because I have not followed the controversy to its full extent but the only female voice within F1 that has complained about Moss' comments on a large scale is Susie Wolff. What do we know of Susie Wolff? She would only be driving F1 cars in video games if she hadn't married a major stakeholder in a F1 team because, quite frankly, only the existence of Chanoch Nissany absolves her of the title "least talented test driver in the history of our sport".

Post by **mario** » 18 Apr 2013, 19:58

Klon wrote:[...]I may be wrong because I have not followed the controversy to its full extent but the only female voice within F1 that has complained about Moss' comments on a large scale is Susie Wolff. What do we know of Susie Wolff? She would only be driving F1 cars in video games if she hadn't married a major stakeholder in a F1 team because, quite frankly, only the existence of Chanoch Nissany absolves her of the title "least talented test driver in the history of our sport".

I don't know if it is necessarily only Susie Wolff who has complained about Moss's comments, only that, given she had already been trying to whip up a bit of media attention, her comments were the most publicised ones. It may simply be that her comments were picked up on because of her links to the BBC (through the documentary that her brother did about her, which was shown by the BBC) and the fact that most of the female racing drivers currently active in the world of motorsport are in series that have too low a profile to attract much media attention.
After all, when even figures like Spengler, the winner of the 2012 DTM season, are only occasionally interviewed, what chance does somebody like Rahal Frey, who languishes towards the bottom of the pile in DTM (even if she managed to be Susie Wolff last year) have in getting an interview?

WeirdKerr · Post by **WeirdKerr** » 18 Apr 2013, 20:49

ummmm Bahrain 2010 has been on sky in full as part of their "classic f1 races" thing *yawn*

pi314159 · Post by **pi314159** » 18 Apr 2013, 20:54

WeirdKerr wrote:ummmm Bahrain 2010 has been on sky in full as part of their "classic f1 races" thing *yawn*

Really? This was one of the most boring races I ever watched. But wait, that was HRT's first race!

Klon · Post by **Klon** » 18 Apr 2013, 20:54

WeirdKerr wrote:ummmm Bahrain 2010 has been on sky in full as part of their "classic f1 races" thing *yawn*

Well, admittedly Sky has it rather tough on that one with the "classic race" being a former race on the upcoming track and Bahrain really doesn't have many "classics" to offer (2012 was nice, but is only one year past). If I was responsible for the selection I would have gone with 2006 (vintage strategic battle between world champion Alonso and Schumacher looking to retake his place at the top) but whoever had to chose had a shitty job to do.

WeirdKerr · Post by **WeirdKerr** » 18 Apr 2013, 21:03

Klon wrote:
WeirdKerr wrote:ummmm Bahrain 2010 has been on sky in full as part of their "classic f1 races" thing *yawn*

Well, admittedly Sky has it rather tough on that one with the "classic race" being a former race on the upcoming track and Bahrain really doesn't have many "classics" to offer (2012 was nice, but is only one year past). If I was responsible for the selection I would have gone with 2006 (vintage strategic battle between world champion Alonso and Schumacher looking to retake his place at the top) but whoever had to chose had a shitty job to do.

they had 2006 on on tuesday (think they have had 04 and 05 on monday) now if only they could have the fantasy 2011 race.... :roll:

DanielPT · Post by **DanielPT** » 18 Apr 2013, 21:06

WeirdKerr wrote:
Klon wrote:
WeirdKerr wrote:ummmm Bahrain 2010 has been on sky in full as part of their "classic f1 races" thing *yawn*

Well, admittedly Sky has it rather tough on that one with the "classic race" being a former race on the upcoming track and Bahrain really doesn't have many "classics" to offer (2012 was nice, but is only one year past). If I was responsible for the selection I would have gone with 2006 (vintage strategic battle between world champion Alonso and Schumacher looking to retake his place at the top) but whoever had to chose had a shitty job to do.

they had 2006 on on tuesday (think they have had 04 and 05 on monday) now if only they could have the fantasy 2011 race....

The world motorsport council run by FIA is still deciding who won that... :lol:

Salamander · Post by **Salamander** » 18 Apr 2013, 21:10

DanielPT wrote:
WeirdKerr wrote:they had 2006 on on tuesday (think they have had 04 and 05 on monday) now if only they could have the fantasy 2011 race....

The world motorsport council run by FIA is still deciding who won that...

... I thought Barrichello had been decided as the winner? But yeah, the 2011 Bahrain Grand Prix was by far and away the best edition, likely never to be matched.

FullMetalJack · Post by **FullMetalJack** » 18 Apr 2013, 21:12

WeirdKerr wrote:now if only they could have the fantasy 2011 race....

Ah yes, Barrichello's historic win. Good times.

pi314159 · Post by **pi314159** » 18 Apr 2013, 21:15

redbulljack14 wrote:
WeirdKerr wrote:now if only they could have the fantasy 2011 race....

Ah yes, Heidfeld's historic win. Good times.

Fixed.

Salamander · Post by **Salamander** » 18 Apr 2013, 21:18

pi314159 wrote:
redbulljack14 wrote:
WeirdKerr wrote:now if only they could have the fantasy 2011 race....

Ah yes, Heidfeld's historic win. Good times.

Fixed.

I'm pretty certain Barrichello was declared as the winner...

EDIT: In fact, yes he was. Right here. Or here, if for some heinous reason you don't want to read the entirety of that thread.

Klon · Post by **Klon** » 18 Apr 2013, 22:23

CURSE YOU, Pasta Maldonado. Your avatar caused people to believe I dislike Rubens Barrichello. :lol:

DanielPT · Post by **DanielPT** » 18 Apr 2013, 23:07

BlindCaveSalamander wrote:
pi314159 wrote:
redbulljack14 wrote:
Ah yes, Heidfeld's historic win. Good times.

Fixed.

I'm pretty certain Barrichello was declared as the winner...

EDIT: In fact, yes he was. Right here. Or here, if for some heinous reason you don't want to read the entirety of that thread.

It was, but as Ross Prawn said, Ferrari protested the result, so the WMSC in Paris got to see if it would override the decision or not. It still is to be decided!

WeirdKerr · Post by **WeirdKerr** » 19 Apr 2013, 22:06

epic bump of epicness... has the result been decided yet?

Salamander · Post by **Salamander** » 19 Apr 2013, 22:09

WeirdKerr wrote:epic bump of epicness... has the result been decided yet?

As a matter of fact.... yes! I believe the WMSC has finally reached a conclusion... and the result stands! Rubens Barrichello IS the winner of the 2011 Bahrain Grand Prix!

WeirdKerr · Post by **WeirdKerr** » 19 Apr 2013, 22:12

BlindCaveSalamander wrote:
WeirdKerr wrote:epic bump of epicness... has the result been decided yet?

As a matter of fact.... yes! I believe the WMSC has finally reached a conclusion... and the result stands! Rubens Barrichello IS the winner of the 2011 Bahrain Grand Prix!

oops posted this in the wrong thread( blame it on beer from the oldest brewery in the world)

Shizuka · Post by **Shizuka** » 20 Apr 2013, 03:54

BlindCaveSalamander wrote:As a matter of fact.... yes! I believe the WMSC has finally reached a conclusion... and the result stands! Rubens Barrichello IS the winner of the 2011 Bahrain Grand Prix!

And that brings up a question: why couldn't Williams emulate any kind of that form later on in 2011, aside from Reverend's usual Monaco form?

TomWazzleshaw · Post by **TomWazzleshaw** » 20 Apr 2013, 04:02

Shizuka wrote:
BlindCaveSalamander wrote:As a matter of fact.... yes! I believe the WMSC has finally reached a conclusion... and the result stands! Rubens Barrichello IS the winner of the 2011 Bahrain Grand Prix!

And that brings up a question: why couldn't Williams emulate any kind of that form later on in 2011, aside from Reverend's usual Monaco form?

They must have put some new parts on the car between Bahrain and Australia. Which backfired spectacularly :lol:

Shizuka · Post by **Shizuka** » 20 Apr 2013, 06:09

So that's where Mercedes got this season downgrading idea from, wow.

pi314159 · Post by **pi314159** » 20 Apr 2013, 06:49

BlindCaveSalamander wrote:
pi314159 wrote:
redbulljack14 wrote:
Ah yes, Heidfeld's historic win. Good times.

Fixed.

I'm pretty certain Barrichello was declared as the winner...

EDIT: In fact, yes he was. Right here. Or here, if for some heinous reason you don't want to read the entirety of that thread.

I didn't know there was a thread, I thought it was just a joke by redbulljack.

TomWazzleshaw · Post by **TomWazzleshaw** » 20 Apr 2013, 07:06

pi314159 wrote:
BlindCaveSalamander wrote:
pi314159 wrote:Fixed.

I'm pretty certain Barrichello was declared as the winner...

EDIT: In fact, yes he was. Right here. Or here, if for some heinous reason you don't want to read the entirety of that thread.

I didn't know there was a thread, I thought it was just a joke by redbulljack.

Since you weren't around at the time, we'll forgive you for missing Bahrain 2011, easily one of the greatest races of all time.

pi314159 · Post by **pi314159** » 20 Apr 2013, 07:48

Wizzie wrote:
pi314159 wrote:
BlindCaveSalamander wrote:I'm pretty certain Barrichello was declared as the winner...

EDIT: In fact, yes he was. Right here. Or here, if for some heinous reason you don't want to read the entirety of that thread.

I didn't know there was a thread, I thought it was just a joke by redbulljack.

Since you weren't around at the time, we'll forgive you for missing Bahrain 2011, easily one of the greatest races of all time.

But I won't miss this year's New Jersey Grand Prix.

Post by **Londoner** » 20 Apr 2013, 11:05

I'm now all for penalising drivers if they don't set a representative laptime in Q3.

dr-baker · Post by **dr-baker** » 20 Apr 2013, 11:36

pi314159 wrote:
Wizzie wrote:Since you weren't around at the time, we'll forgive you for missing Bahrain 2011, easily one of the greatest races of all time.

But I won't miss this year's New Jersey Grand Prix.

No, indeed you won't. It will definitely be another major talking point round here, I can tell you!