What If?

[TomWazzleshaw]

What if the start of the 2008 Brazilian Grand Prix wasn't delayed by 10 minutes due to the freak storm that hit just minutes before the warmup lap?

[Bleu]

Several drivers would have come in from the warm-up lap to change tyres.

[WeirdKerr]

What If Luizzi went to Ferrari in '09 following Massa's Injury?

[Aerospeed]

What If Luizzi went to Ferrari in '09 following Massa's Injury?

He would have been miles better than Fisichella and Badoer combined.

[dr-baker]

One of the more boring what ifs:

What if Fabrizio Giovanardi got into F1 in 1992?

Far inferior to Giovanardi in NASCAR considering the nature of touring cars with their handling. He'd be decent, but little more in F1.

Eh? Giovanardi went to NASCAR? I know he was brilliant in the BTCC, but was unaware he went to NASCAR...

[Salamander]

One of the more boring what ifs:

What if Fabrizio Giovanardi got into F1 in 1992?

Far inferior to Giovanardi in NASCAR considering the nature of touring cars with their handling. He'd be decent, but little more in F1.

Eh? Giovanardi went to NASCAR? I know he was brilliant in the BTCC, but was unaware he went to NASCAR...

... I'm pretty sure he meant Giovanardi would've been better in NASCAR than in F1.

[dr-baker]

Eh? Giovanardi went to NASCAR? I know he was brilliant in the BTCC, but was unaware he went to NASCAR...

... I'm pretty sure he meant Giovanardi would've been better in NASCAR than in F1.

Hmm, yeah, I suppose that would be true, given his tin-top pedigree...!

[Onxy Wrecked]

... I'm pretty sure he meant Giovanardi would've been better in NASCAR than in F1.

Hmm, yeah, I suppose that would be true, given his tin-top pedigree...!

I can confirm that only Tony Stewart, A.J. Foyt, and Mario Andretti produced both well in tin tops and in open wheel competition. Giovanardi is no Andretti or Foyt.

[Ferrarist]

What if, Ferrari was allowed to build a W18 engine in the 70's?

[pi314159]

What if, Ferrari was allowed to build a W18 engine in the 70's?

I don't think it would have been successful, if you consider that it was developed by the same person who designed the Life W12. Although 480 bhp would have been impressive in the early 70's, I think the W18 would've faced similar problems like the BRM H16, which was too heavy and unreliable.

[mario]

What if, Ferrari was allowed to build a W18 engine in the 70's?

I don't think it would have been successful, if you consider that it was developed by the same person who designed the Life W12. Although 480 bhp would have been impressive in the early 70's, I think the W18 would've faced similar problems like the BRM H16, which was too heavy and unreliable.

Even by the standards of the early 1970's, that sort of power output wouldn't necessarily have been especially spectacular. Cosworth were claiming about 440bhp for the DFV (for the works teams) in the early 1970's, and Ferrari claimed that the V12 in the 312B series was producing 460bhp in 1970 - even if Ferrari's power claims at the time did have to be taken with a slight pinch of salt - so 480bhp would have only been a marginal improvement over the more conventional designs of the time.

I have to agree that, given the complexity of such an engines and the fact that Ferrari's resources were somewhat overstretched in the early 1970's (bear in mind that, with Ferrari engaging in both F1 and sports car racing, that the team were beginning to skip some F1 races as a result), I doubt that they could have turned such a design into a competitive and reliable enough engine for use in F1.
Furthermore, although it might have had a slight advantage in terms of power output compared to the V12 that Ferrari were using at the tail end of the 1960's and the first generation of the flat V12 that Ferrari used in 1970, the greater internal friction from the greater number of moving parts might well have cost the team more in fuel consumption than could be compensated for with additional power (even the V12 was somewhat heavy on fuel compared to the DFV).

At most, they might have pushed forward to building a prototype engine, which might have then been either bench tested or track tested in a modified car, but I doubt it would have been used in an actual race.

[TheAIMachine]

What if McLaren had opted for Chrysler/Lambo instead of Peugeot for 1994?

[FantometteBR]

What if McLaren had opted for Chrysler/Lambo instead of Peugeot for 1994?

Wouldn't see much of a marginal improvement in 1994, unless if it was a long time commitment, like it was with Mercedes, which incorporated Sauber, who became Mercedes F1 in a few years from there

[CoopsII]

Wouldn't see much of a marginal improvement in 1994, unless if it was a long time commitment, like it was with Mercedes, which incorporated Sauber, who became Mercedes F1 in a few years from there

Umm, Mercedes origins are (I think) Tyrell - B.A.R. - Honda - Brawn and then Mercedes. Sauber and BMW formed a bit of a merger after they couldnt make it work with Williams. It didnt work and Sauber are now Sauber.

[AndreaModa]

Wouldn't see much of a marginal improvement in 1994, unless if it was a long time commitment, like it was with Mercedes, which incorporated Sauber, who became Mercedes F1 in a few years from there

Umm, Mercedes origins are (I think) Tyrell - B.A.R. - Honda - Brawn and then Mercedes. Sauber and BMW formed a bit of a merger after they couldnt make it work with Williams. It didnt work and Sauber are now Sauber.

Easy tiger, I think he means if McLaren had taken the Chrysler engines, Mercedes would have forged closer ties with Sauber, eventually resulting in them taking them over to become a works Mercedes F1 team.

[Backmarker]

What if one of the Micheline drivers had a fatal/life threatening injury as a result of a tyre failure in practice for the 2005 US Grand Prix?

[andrew2209]

What if one of the Micheline drivers had a fatal/life threatening injury as a result of a tyre failure in practice for the 2005 US Grand Prix?

Michelin are severly punished by the FIA for failing to supply suitable tyres for the GP, and F1 goes to all-Bridgestones in 2006.
Then, either:
1) Entire race weekend is cancelled for safety fears
2) The chicane is put in place.

Also, one set of tyres per race is dropped for the rest of the season.

[dr-baker]

What if one of the Micheline drivers had a fatal/life threatening injury as a result of a tyre failure in practice for the 2005 US Grand Prix?

Michelin are severly punished by the FIA for failing to supply suitable tyres for the GP, and F1 goes to all-Bridgestones in 2006.
Then, either:
1) Entire race weekend is cancelled for safety fears
2) The chicane is put in place.

Also, one set of tyres per race is dropped for the rest of the season.

Would there be a massive lawsuit as a result?

[FMecha]

Bumping this question:

What if CART, in 2003, was bought by NASCAR?
What if F1 raced in Autopolis, as intended in 1993? Or what if Jerez got the nod instead of Donington?

Why no-one answered those yet?

[Ferrarist]

What if CART, in 2003, was bought by NASCAR?

It wouldn't have made much sense, given that NASCAR (in form of the ISC) were heavily backing the IRL back then. So the only reason for NASCAR to buy CART might have been to assist their "preferred" series, thus ensuring a reunited open-wheel series, which slowly but steadily brings back the fans to the track, especially those owned by the ISC. Thus, NASCAR increases its profit, while having all the means to keep IndyCar artificially small.

[Aerospeed]

Bumping this question:

What if CART, in 2003, was bought by NASCAR?
What if F1 raced in Autopolis, as intended in 1993? Or what if Jerez got the nod instead of Donington?

Why no-one answered those yet?

No clue.

I bet that had NASCAR had the money to buy CART they would definitely race on more ovals, emphasize on crashes, and try and find more ways to piss off the teams.
So it will end up like the other NASCAR open wheel races - gone in three years or so.

As for Jerez, I think they would be successful in hosting the race and would continue on. I would think that they would even get the nod over the Nurburgring. For sure, trophy-gate (or whatever the heck happened to them in reality that's been preventing them from hosting anything) would not happen.

And as for Autopolis, all I can say is "re-ject-ful!"

[TomWazzleshaw]

A slightly morbid one here but what if Peter Dumbreck didn't walk away uninjured from his monster smash at the 1999 Le Mans 24H?

[CoopsII]

What if one of the Micheline drivers had a fatal/life threatening injury as a result of a tyre failure in practice for the 2005 US Grand Prix?

Americans may have taken more notice?

<runs away>

[mario]

A slightly morbid one here but what if Peter Dumbreck didn't walk away uninjured from his monster smash at the 1999 Le Mans 24H?

I suppose it would have depended on the severity of his injuries, although it has to be said that, even without Dumbreck being injured, that accident, coupled with the earlier accidents that Webber had, were enough to write off any plans Mercedes might have had for sports car racing. I don't think that they would have dropped F1, but they might have cut back in some other areas over the short term - perhaps they'd have reverted to the Ilmor name in F1 for a while to deflect the negative attention.

[ibsey]

Just in case this hasn’t been asked already what if M Schumi joined Mika Hakkinen at Mclaren, as equal teammates for 1994? (IIRC one of the times when Ron Dennis was trying to court the German). Initially you may think this is an easy one to answer, in that given their respective records in F1 M Schumi might have blown the doors of Mika. But I tend to think it would have been a much closer contest than many might think.

As during their respective battles in the late 1990’s / early 00’s, many felt that Mika was an out & out quicker driver than M Schumi (particularly in quali). M Schumi possibly had other areas where he was better than Mika i.e. race craft etc, but the question I’m trying to get at is how might have M Schumi have reacted to an equal teammate who consistently was as quick if not quicker?

Bearing in mind that probably since 1993 (maybe earlier?) M Schumi was always given number 1 status within a team (excluding his comeback post 2010 of course!). Whilst also considering that during M Schumi’s early years some questions were asked over Schumacher’s ability to withstand pressure. IIRC these questions where especially asked after Adelaide 1994 (where all weekend M Schumi was looking edgy, as witness by his Saturday quali crash), a massive practice crash he had in Brazil 1995 & then his mistake at Imola 1995.

After these incidents IMO the pressure eased up on M Schumi since Williams & Hill basically threw away the championship. But until that point (& even at some points afterwards i.e. Jerez 1997) IMO M Schumi could be questionable under pressure. I’d need to check this to be sure, but I have a feeling Martin Brundle also came to the same conclusion after his time as M Schumi’s teammate at Benetton in 1992 (IIRC after races like Imola 1992).

Also worth bearing in mind that success like winning WDC or two (as M Schumi had done by 1996) builds a drivers self-confidence & therefore helps them deal with pressure much better (Button’s a great example of this…remember the Button at the end of 2009 compared to the Button we have mostly seen at Mclaren since then). Also from 1996 until around 2000, it was M Schumi usual tactic to try to advert pressure from his shoulders before a race by stating how he wasn’t expecting to win…even though there might have been times when such a statement might not have been fully justified all things considered. Like having a No.2 who was always willing to give up their own race for your benefit, even during the 1st part of the season like France 1999.
So how might of Hakkinen vs M Schumi at Mclaren in 1994 have faired all things considered?

Also probably been asked already, but what if Honda had stayed with Williams for 1988 & beyond instead of going to Mclaren? Might we have had Mclaren Renault in 1989 then? Also considering Renault became the engines to have in 1991 & there after. Whilst Williams although they may have still had the (lesser) Honda engines, still had Newey & active suspension gismo’s. So which team out of Mclaren Renault & Williams Honda might have got the upper hand in 1991 & 1992?

Would love to hear anyone’s thoughts on the below question which I previously asked…

What if TWR group & Tom Walkinshaw, never got involved with Benetton around Silverstone 1991?

I could be wrong on this, but it is my understanding it had always been Tom who was ultimately responsible for bringing Ross Brawn to Benetton (circa 1992) and snatching M Schumi from under the claws of Jordan later in 1991. So if that was the case, would Ross Brawn & M Schumi still have ended up at Benetton without TWR? Alternatively what would Benetton have been like without those two key figures?

Furthermore Wikipedia states;

Walkinshaw became Benetton's engineering director, and was instrumental in developing the car that took Michael Schumacher to his first World Championship title in 1994.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Walkin ... ormula_One

So how good might the Benetton cars from the early to mid 1990's have been without TWR?

My own personal opinion. Benetton wouldn’t have got M Schumi by Monza 1991 without Tom Walkinshaw (although maybe Benetton would have gotten Schumacher at some point after 1991). Also the cars wouldn’t have been as good without Ross Brawn & TWR involvement. Maybe they would have won a few races. But I’m not sure they would have won the WDC in 1994. Not sure how this might have affected Renault teaming up with Benetton for 1995? However I do think Ross Brawn would have joined Benetton at some point.

[TomWazzleshaw]

What if Damon Hill hadn't changed his mind and retired after the 1999 British Grand Prix?

[ibsey]

What if Damon Hill hadn't changed his mind and retired after the 1999 British Grand Prix?

Wizzie go to page 43 of this thread as this question had been asked before. Where serveral people including yours truly replied. Would have loved to have seen Sarrazin in the Prost during the 2nd half of 1999.

[mario]

Would love to hear anyone’s thoughts on the below question which I previously asked…

What if TWR group & Tom Walkinshaw, never got involved with Benetton around Silverstone 1991?

I could be wrong on this, but it is my understanding it had always been Tom who was ultimately responsible for bringing Ross Brawn to Benetton (circa 1992) and snatching M Schumi from under the claws of Jordan later in 1991. So if that was the case, would Ross Brawn & M Schumi still have ended up at Benetton without TWR? Alternatively what would Benetton have been like without those two key figures?

Furthermore Wikipedia states;

Walkinshaw became Benetton's engineering director, and was instrumental in developing the car that took Michael Schumacher to his first World Championship title in 1994.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Walkin ... ormula_One

So how good might the Benetton cars from the early to mid 1990's have been without TWR?

My own personal opinion. Benetton wouldn’t have got M Schumi by Monza 1991 without Tom Walkinshaw (although maybe Benetton would have gotten Schumacher at some point after 1991). Also the cars wouldn’t have been as good without Ross Brawn & TWR involvement. Maybe they would have won a few races. But I’m not sure they would have won the WDC in 1994. Not sure how this might have affected Renault teaming up with Benetton for 1995? However I do think Ross Brawn would have joined Benetton at some point.

Interesting question - whilst not having Ross Brawn might have dented their competitiveness, on the other hand they were also able to call on the services of other talented designers. After all, the team already had Rory Byrne on hand by this point (and, for the one year where Byrne was not present, in 1990, they were able to call on Barnard's services instead), and he had managed to turn out fairly competitive cars in 1989 and 1990.
Equally, I imagine that Schumacher would probably have ended up at Benetton sooner rather than later because of how keen Briatore was on him and, IIRC, the contract that Jordan had signed with Schumacher was only for 1991, so he would have been on the market fairly soon. Given that Jordan were also in a somewhat perilous financial position at the end of the year, I imagine that Schumacher probably would have wanted to move in case they did fold - and Benetton would probably have been an attractive team anyway if they'd managed to maintain the sort of competitiveness they'd showed before Walkinshaw turned up.

The other thing that did help, to a certain extent, was the slow decline of McLaren after Honda withdrew and Ferrari becoming increasingly handicapped by the high fuel consumption of their V12 engine. That, to a certain extent, created a potential vacuum for Benetton to step into - equally, as Newey has later admitted, the prevalence of electronic aids meant that, to a certain extent, they compensated for some of the flaws with his cars, such as the fact that the rear suspension geometry was compromised by the dimensions of the Renault V10 and there were slight issues with weight transfer effects under braking causing rear end instability on the FW16.

Overall, the absence of Brawn and Walkinshaw would probably have meant that the team might not have been quite as strong as they were, but it is plausible that they would still have been one of the stronger rivals to Williams at the time due to their own technical team and the relative decline of other outfits.

[TomWazzleshaw]

What if Damon Hill hadn't changed his mind and retired after the 1999 British Grand Prix?

Wizzie go to page 43 of this thread as this question had been asked before. Where serveral people including yours truly replied. Would have loved to have seen Sarrazin in the Prost during the 2nd half of 1999.

Ah, ok. Looks like my memory has failed me again

[Gerudo Dragon]

What if Dennis Vitolo got into F1?

[Onxy Wrecked]

What if Dennis Vitolo got into F1?

Nigel Mansell retires within 2 seconds of the news.

[go_Rubens]

What if Juan Pablo Montoya wasn't sacked by McLaren and continued to race in F1?

[Onxy Wrecked]

What if Juan Pablo Montoya wasn't sacked by McLaren and continued to race in F1?

First in NASCAR, it means Casey Mears or Reed Sorenson would be in the 42 car at least for a season or two. In F1, that probably means Kimi Raikkonen is forced from McLaren or that Lewis Hamilton races for a different team. Ultimately, Montoya retires with about 3 to 5 more GP wins and returns to Indianapolis at the price of Charlie Kimball or another lesser Ganassi driver.

[ibsey]

What if Ron Dennis & his Project 4 group hadn't got involved with Mclaren around 1980/81?

The rest of the 80's might have turned out very differently indeed if Mclaren continued as they did in 1978 - 1980 just before Ron Dennis got involved.

[TomWazzleshaw]

What if Damon Hill and Mika Hakkinen didn't come together at the start of the 1994 Monaco Grand Prix, taking both out of the race?

[ibsey]

What if Damon Hill and Mika Hakkinen didn't come together at the start of the 1994 Monaco Grand Prix, taking both out of the race?

Hakkinen might have finished the race 2nd & Hill 3rd. That result for Hill might have been enough to have secure him the 1994 WDC? But one can never really tell how it might have influenced the rest of the season. In particular the penalties & DSQ’s handed out by the FIA to M Schumi.

What if James Hunt never raced at Trois Rivieres in 1976, thus never discovered Gilles Villeneuve. Would Gilles’ still have made it to F1?

James was supposed to be the star of that Formula Atlantic event yet he was famously blown away by Gilles. When James returned to Europe, he immediately cajoled Mclaren into giving Villeneuve a chance. To Mclaren’s MD, Teddy Mayer James would say; “You’ve got to give this chap Villeneuve a run. He is extraordinary. I’ve never seen anything like it. He was virtually bouncing off the walls at every corner. His car control was phenomenal.”

A year or so later Gilles admitted that local knowledge was everything that day. “I knew I had to upstage James, so I tried this new thing of leaning on the walls. I raced a wider racetrack than James and used the walls to stop the slides. I knew I could do it. It wasn’t that big a deal. It was easy in a car like the March”. But without James being there, without James adding context to the day, Gilles Villeneuve might have disappeared as yet another obscure club racer destined never to make it to F1. The world at large might never have got to appreciate his ‘phenomenal car control’.

[The Dutch Bear]

As I'm writing this there is a rain delay at Nascar's race at Talladega, so I'll ask:
What if Nascar and Indycar do run in the rain on the ovals? What would the racing be like?

[Salamander]

As I'm writing this there is a rain delay at Nascar's race at Talladega, so I'll ask:
What if Nascar and Indycar do run in the rain on the ovals? What would the racing be like?

A goddamn disaster.

[Londoner]

As I'm writing this there is a rain delay at Nascar's race at Talladega, so I'll ask:
What if Nascar and Indycar do run in the rain on the ovals? What would the racing be like?

A goddamn disaster.

Indeed.

[The Dutch Bear]

As I'm writing this there is a rain delay at Nascar's race at Talladega, so I'll ask:
What if Nascar and Indycar do run in the rain on the ovals? What would the racing be like?

A goddamn disaster.

Indeed.

With proper rain tires of course. The biggest problem as far as I know is that rain tires can't handle the massive load put on them on the banked turns.
2005 US GP, basically. Although do I recall that tyre manufacturers where looking at it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vNwlIWAFk-4 around 22.30