The 2013 British Grand Prix Thread

Ferrim · Post by **Ferrim** » 29 Jun 2013, 10:22

It's starting to look like we'll have another day of VETTELWINSLOL come tomorrow's afternoon.

You can't really blame the guy for taking advantage of a good car. Particularly when he's been great this season at saving points on low key weekends (something he also did last year), so that he's now 36 points ahead instead of equal to or closely behind Alonso.

good_Ralf · Post by **good_Ralf** » 29 Jun 2013, 11:48

Murray Walker poignantly talks again his recent misfortunes in health on the BBC and he then goes on about how Paul di Resta is going to be a race winner in the future. :lol:

Nice to see Gerhard Berger in the Ferrari garage.

SgtPepper · Post by **SgtPepper** » 29 Jun 2013, 12:05

It might be slow, but that Sauber is just a bit gorgeous.

Shizuka · Post by **Shizuka** » 29 Jun 2013, 12:22

Ferrari just barely passed through Q1.

good_Ralf · Post by **good_Ralf** » 29 Jun 2013, 12:25

Giedo van der Garde's lap puts Talent into dead last on the grid, for the moment. Pic outqualified Bianchi.

Post by **Londoner** » 29 Jun 2013, 12:28

good_Ralf wrote:Giedo van der Garde's lap puts Talent into dead last on the grid, for the moment. Pic outqualified Bianchi.

Remember that VDG has a 10 place grid drop, which will see him start from P31 on the grid.

SeedStriker · Post by **SeedStriker** » 29 Jun 2013, 12:30

Felipe's new engine is clearly so tuned down. In high revs sound like a food blender

AdrianSutil · Post by **AdrianSutil** » 29 Jun 2013, 12:34

Massa struggling big time. I'll be very surprised if he makes Q3.

Force India and ToroRosso looking like both cars should get through. Good for them.

Edit: If Vergne didn't mess up his first lap, my prediction would've been spot-on.
Prediction number 2: Force India to be 6th and 8th with Ricciardo 7th.

SeedStriker · Post by **SeedStriker** » 29 Jun 2013, 12:44

So much for McLaren's new gizmos. JB couldn't even made them work, anyway.

Shizuka · Post by **Shizuka** » 29 Jun 2013, 12:44

McLaren double Q2 drop-out, Massa joins them. Meanwhile both Force India cars and Ricciardo in.

Post by **Londoner** » 29 Jun 2013, 12:46

Enoch's curse is working once again.

good_Ralf · Post by **good_Ralf** » 29 Jun 2013, 12:47

Shizuka wrote:McLaren double Q2 drop-out, Massa joins them. Meanwhile both Force India cars and Ricciardo in.

And the Glass of Milk is being outpaced at his home race his teammate, the Pianist.

By the way, Ricciardo was the quickest in sector 2 in Q2.

go_Rubens · Post by **go_Rubens** » 29 Jun 2013, 12:57

good_Ralf wrote:Giedo van der Garde's lap puts Talent into dead last on the grid, for the moment. Pic outqualified Bianchi.

Well, Bianchi is still up there as one of the fastest backmarkers. That's a good thing!

McLaren dropping out in Q2 goes to show that their new gizmos don't work at all in improving performance.

rachel1990 · Post by **rachel1990** » 29 Jun 2013, 12:59

East Londoner wrote:
good_Ralf wrote:Giedo van der Garde's lap puts Talent into dead last on the grid, for the moment. Pic outqualified Bianchi.

Remember that VDG has a 10 place grid drop, which will see him start from P31 on the grid.

Sometimes these 10 places drops are not worth it

Shizuka · Post by **Shizuka** » 29 Jun 2013, 13:02

Alonso only 10th? Lotus behind Force India and Ricciardo? Wow.

SeedStriker · Post by **SeedStriker** » 29 Jun 2013, 13:03

Another pole for Merc, now in the hands of Lewisteria. Now let's hope that they don't crumble in race trim...

Post by **Ataxia** » 29 Jun 2013, 13:04

Great job by both Di Resta and Ricciardo! They've been threatening to do that over practice, and it's nice to see them deliver.

Another good job by Merc, and hopefully they'll be able to make a good fist of it tomorrow.

Aerospeed · Post by **Aerospeed** » 29 Jun 2013, 13:07

McLaren out at Q2 again. Sigh....

go_Rubens · Post by **go_Rubens** » 29 Jun 2013, 13:07

I think I predicted Hamilton to get pole, so I probably had a better Predicament Prediction than I thought :lol:

Ferrim · Post by **Ferrim** » 29 Jun 2013, 13:08

I didn't expect Mercedes to come this good in qualifying, terrific pace... let's see tomorrow, but it should be either Hamilton or Vettel for the win.

Also, McLaren looking good... for 6th in the constructors. :roll:

go_Rubens · Post by **go_Rubens** » 29 Jun 2013, 13:10

What's the final list? NBC is covering the first day of the Tour de France instead of F1.

Shizuka · Post by **Shizuka** » 29 Jun 2013, 13:10

go_Rubens wrote:What's the final list? NBC is covering the first day of the Tour de France instead of F1.

Ham Ros Vet Web Dir Ric Sut Gro Rai Alo for the top ten.

Ferrim wrote:Also, McLaren looking good... for 6th in the constructors.

If Toro Rosso can keep this momentum, 7th is not out of question yet...

go_Rubens · Post by **go_Rubens** » 29 Jun 2013, 13:26

If SFI keep it up, Glass of Milk can finish in the top ten in the drivers' standings :roll:

The Lotus cars outqualified Alonso? Surprising... Then look at Massa :lol:

Yannick · Post by **Yannick** » 29 Jun 2013, 13:31

Hamilton seems to have adapted to the car now at the Brackley team. It looks like his move has been a good choice after all. Who would have guessed? Ironically, it's like when Button moved to McLaren.

Here's hoping Lewis wins it and we'll see another episode of Lewisteria! I mean it's been a while ... ;-)

Post by **mario** » 29 Jun 2013, 15:31

SeedStriker wrote:Felipe's new engine is clearly so tuned down. In high revs sound like a food blender

That could be because Ferrari had to make a rather late engine change for Massa (midway through the final practise session) as a "precautionary" measure, although it is not entirely clear why they thought was wrong with his original engine. It could be that he is having to use an engine that has done a number of practise sessions and is therefore a little more marginal on mileage than Ferrari would like, which might be a reason why Ferrari might want to detune the engine a little.

Overall, though, Ferrari did not look like they were in a good position throughout this weekend - Massa has been struggling for pace and had a few spins and crashes, whilst Alonso also looked like he was struggling with the balance of the car in the high speed sections and was sliding around more than normal. Ferrari might not have expected much from qualifying, but I doubt that they expected it to be as bad as 10th for Alonso.
They might also be rather worried to note that, with the cooler conditions and harder tyres that Pirelli are using this weekend, that Mercedes seem to be able to manage their tyres better than in the past. Lotus, too, may well be worried - the talk is that two stops might be normal, and possibly even one stop strategies, due to the low wear rate of the harder tyre, so they might not have much of an opportunity to work their way back up the order with tyre strategy either.

Ataxia wrote:Great job by both Di Resta and Ricciardo! They've been threatening to do that over practice, and it's nice to see them deliver.

Another good job by Merc, and hopefully they'll be able to make a good fist of it tomorrow.

They had been looking good, but I didn't expect it to be quite that good - Sutil deserves some credit too for his 7th place too, which backs up the strong form of Force India. It could be quite an interesting battle between them, the two Lotus drivers and Alonso tomorrow.

As for Mercedes, I can imagine that they are casting a keen eye on the WCC tomorrow - with Alonso and Massa so far down the field and both looking a little out of sorts and Mercedes only 11 points behind them in the WCC, it is possible that Ferrari might lose out on 2nd place in the WCC as well as losing ground in the WDC.

AdrianSutil · Post by **AdrianSutil** » 29 Jun 2013, 15:40

Massa's had an engine change? Won't he get a grid penalty for that?

Aerospeed · Post by **Aerospeed** » 29 Jun 2013, 15:58

AdrianSutil wrote:Massa's had an engine change? Won't he get a grid penalty for that?

Not if he A) Changed it before the race, as opposed to changing it during the race and B) If he somehow got it changed within the window that you're normally supposed to change the engines. I think you're allowed to have seven(?) engines in a season, you can change them as much as you want, just as long as you have seven(?).

good_Ralf · Post by **good_Ralf** » 29 Jun 2013, 16:08

JeremyMcClean wrote:
AdrianSutil wrote:Massa's had an engine change? Won't he get a grid penalty for that?

Not if he A) Changed it before the race, as opposed to changing it during the race and B) If he somehow got it changed within the window that you're normally supposed to change the engines. I think you're allowed to have seven(?) engines in a season, you can change them as much as you want, just as long as you have seven(?).

I think the limit is eight in a season and every new engine over the limit induces a ten-place grid penalty.

go_Rubens · Post by **go_Rubens** » 29 Jun 2013, 16:42

good_Ralf wrote:
JeremyMcClean wrote:
AdrianSutil wrote:Massa's had an engine change? Won't he get a grid penalty for that?

Not if he A) Changed it before the race, as opposed to changing it during the race and B) If he somehow got it changed within the window that you're normally supposed to change the engines. I think you're allowed to have seven(?) engines in a season, you can change them as much as you want, just as long as you have seven(?).

I think the limit is eight in a season and every new engine over the limit induces a ten-place grid penalty.

The limit is eight. Changing to a ninth engine going into the final round doesn't result in a penalty, but any other round incurs a ten place penalty on the grid for the race.

Meatwad · Post by **Meatwad** » 29 Jun 2013, 16:59

Di Resta's car has been found underweight. It's a shame to see him lose a great grid position not through his own fault. For the third time in a row, he has to do a recovery drive. :cry:

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/108424

Post by **Ataxia** » 29 Jun 2013, 17:02

Meatwad wrote:Di Resta's car has been found underweight. It's a shame to see him lose a great grid position not through his own fault. For the third time in a row, he has to do a recovery drive.
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/108424

Wow, that's a real shame. He did a stellar job, and he's been let down a little again.

go_Rubens · Post by **go_Rubens** » 29 Jun 2013, 17:16

Ataxia wrote:
Meatwad wrote:Di Resta's car has been found underweight. It's a shame to see him lose a great grid position not through his own fault. For the third time in a row, he has to do a recovery drive.
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/108424

Wow, that's a real shame. He did a stellar job, and he's been let down a little again.

What? No! This couldn't happen...

I was hoping for Glass of Milk to do well, but his recovery drives have been good lately.

A ROTR nomination for di Resta's luck or the British drivers' luck anyone? I know, it's early.

FullMetalJack · Post by **FullMetalJack** » 29 Jun 2013, 17:57

go_Rubens wrote:A ROTR nomination for di Resta's luck or the British drivers' luck anyone? I know, it's early.

Lewis Hamilton on pole pretty much negates that.

go_Rubens · Post by **go_Rubens** » 29 Jun 2013, 17:59

FullMetalJack wrote:
go_Rubens wrote:A ROTR nomination for di Resta's luck or the British drivers' luck anyone? I know, it's early.

Lewis Hamilton on pole pretty much negates that.

Yeah, and McLaren are crap, and Lewis will probably drop off in the race due to Mercedes' tyre wear problems, which still seem to be there.

And only now does NBC show qualifying.

Post by **mario** » 29 Jun 2013, 18:29

good_Ralf wrote:
JeremyMcClean wrote:
AdrianSutil wrote:Massa's had an engine change? Won't he get a grid penalty for that?

Not if he A) Changed it before the race, as opposed to changing it during the race and B) If he somehow got it changed within the window that you're normally supposed to change the engines. I think you're allowed to have seven(?) engines in a season, you can change them as much as you want, just as long as you have seven(?).

I think the limit is eight in a season and every new engine over the limit induces a ten-place grid penalty.

The penalties apply if an engine change, or certain major engine components, are changed after the car has either left the pit lane or after Q1 in qualifying, because it is at that point that the car is deemed to be in parc ferme. In Massa's case, the engine change occurred during the final practise session (outside of parc ferme) and, as he has not yet exceeded his allocation of eight engines for the season, was within the regulations.

Ataxia wrote:
Meatwad wrote:Di Resta's car has been found underweight. It's a shame to see him lose a great grid position not through his own fault. For the third time in a row, he has to do a recovery drive.
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/108424

Wow, that's a real shame. He did a stellar job, and he's been let down a little again.

I would have to agree with you there - for all his faults, he did put in an extremely strong performance in qualifying (he'd still be in 5th even if you accounted for the 1.5kg he is apparently underweight by) and earned that place on merit. That could be a pretty sizeable number of points that they've just cost themselves there - let's hope that it doesn't prove to be costly at the end of the season...

F1000X · Post by **F1000X** » 29 Jun 2013, 19:06

THAT'S MAH BOY LEWIS.

solarcold · Post by **solarcold** » 29 Jun 2013, 19:07

Omigosh!..
I feel just SO unhappy about the Glass of milk on this one... I will spend my whole tomorrow to send positive mental forces for his marvellous comeback into the top, because he really deserves to get a podium.

go_Rubens · Post by **go_Rubens** » 29 Jun 2013, 19:10

solarcold wrote:Omigosh!..
I feel just SO unhappy about the Glass of milk on this one... I will spend my whole tomorrow to send positive mental forces for his marvellous comeback into the top, because he really deserves to get a podium.

He's driven like a madman on a mission, although that would suit Webber better when he beats Vettel again :lol:

Yeah, di Resta is on the short end of the stick here. At least we've got Sutil in 6th.

Hoping Vergne gets into the mid points. In fact, both Toro Rosso drivers in the mid points beating both Ferraris seems pretty likely. Both beating McLaren is definate :lol:

Post by **mario** » 29 Jun 2013, 19:44

go_Rubens wrote:
solarcold wrote:Omigosh!..
I feel just SO unhappy about the Glass of milk on this one... I will spend my whole tomorrow to send positive mental forces for his marvellous comeback into the top, because he really deserves to get a podium.

He's driven like a madman on a mission, although that would suit Webber better when he beats Vettel again

Yeah, di Resta is on the short end of the stick here. At least we've got Sutil in 6th.

Hoping Vergne gets into the mid points. In fact, both Toro Rosso drivers in the mid points beating both Ferraris seems pretty likely. Both beating McLaren is definate

There is an interesting suggestion from Adam Cooper about what has happened - it appears that, after the qualifying session, the stewards found that the combined mass of di Resta and his car, having weighed each one separately, came in 1.5kg underweight.
Now, it appears that most of that discrepancy is down to di Resta's weight being lower than normal, so either di Resta lost 1.5kg in the space of a few days or, as Adam Cooper has suggested via Twitter, there may be a question as to the accuracy of the scales which were used to weigh di Resta.

Also, on the topic of illegal cars, it appears that Lotus have been asked to modify their front suspension ahead of the next race after receiving a Technical Directive from Whiting. The complaint was lodged by McLaren and appears to concern the design of the upright - the regulations permit up to three separate suspension members to be connected together before being attached to the upright, but it appears that Lotus's current front suspension design has four suspension members being connected together in this way, therefore violating this particular regulation. http://www.racecar-engineering.com/news ... lverstone/

dr-baker · Post by **dr-baker** » 29 Jun 2013, 22:04

According to this Autosport article, there was indeed a discrepancy with the scales, as Mario said, but only by half a kilo (600 kgs were placed on them, and they read 599.5 kgs). Paul di Resta and his car with fuel were originally 500 g under, and 2 kg under without fuel. With the half-kilo discrepancy, that made him about 3 lb under the limit.