Unpopular F1 opinions

dinizintheoven · Post by **dinizintheoven** » 22 Jul 2013, 17:42

Jocke1 wrote:I wish Michael would come back.

F1 isn't the same without that bow tie. I know you're dead, Mike, but once we've found a cure for that there's a seat at Ferrari for you. Maybe this time you'll win more than one race in a season, if that Vettel can be stopped.

RonDenisDeletraz · Post by **RonDenisDeletraz** » 23 Jul 2013, 10:01

Jocke1 wrote:I wish Michael would come back.

Micheal Hector is pretty terrible in the V8 Supercar Dunlop Series, what makes you think he could succeed in F1

FullMetalJack · Post by **FullMetalJack** » 23 Jul 2013, 10:39

Jocke1 wrote:I wish Michael would come back.

Yes, we all miss Michael Bartels DNQing his Lotus

Jocke1 · Post by **Jocke1** » 23 Jul 2013, 15:33

CoopsII · Post by **CoopsII** » 24 Jul 2013, 06:56

Adelaide was better than Melbourne is.

roblo97 · Post by **roblo97** » 24 Jul 2013, 07:08

CoopsII wrote:Adelaide was better than Melbourne is.

I agree with that

RonDenisDeletraz · Post by **RonDenisDeletraz** » 24 Jul 2013, 08:08

CoopsII wrote:Adelaide was better than Melbourne is.

Yes, this 100 billion times

CoopsII · Post by **CoopsII** » 24 Jul 2013, 08:15

eurobrun wrote:
CoopsII wrote:Adelaide was better than Melbourne is.

Yes, this 100 billion times

If you 'Foe'd roblomas then you wont know but he agrees with you. See? Common ground, we're all not so different after all

roblo97 · Post by **roblo97** » 24 Jul 2013, 09:45

CoopsII wrote:
eurobrun wrote:
CoopsII wrote:Adelaide was better than Melbourne is.

Yes, this 100 billion times

If you 'Foe'd roblomas then you wont know but he agrees with you. See? Common ground, we're all not so different after all

I think the Adelaide track has better variety in the corners and is in a really nice surrounding area

DonTirri · Post by **DonTirri** » 24 Jul 2013, 09:46

good_Ralf wrote:
roblomas52 wrote:Murry Walker is the greatest f1 commentator ever

In the English language yes and I'm yet to find someone who is better.

The Hungarian commentator Palik was famous in his country for using a comic and poetic style of commentating, at least in Hungarian. You should be able to find infinite videos of his voice of YouTube and if you click on his name in my new signature you'll get his instant reaction to the Schumacher incident in Monaco 2004. He is quite funny.
A personal favorite of mine, German Jacques Schulz, is good because he was so dramatic when certain moments happened, usually shouting really loudly and almost screaming. You'll see what I mean again if you click on his name in my signature.
Then there is this anonymous (for the moment) Japanese commentator who does nothing but what Will.I.Am (I call him William) sings in that song. In Japan, whenever there is a massive collision, or something similar, the commentators sound as if they are screaming "SH*T!!!!!!!!" as a reaction to the incident, so whenever you say the S-word in front of other people by accident, you say you were imitating Japanese commentators as an excuse.

All of those linked are downright hilarious to listen to. Though none, not even Murray can match up to Finlands own commentator legend Matti Kyllönen, known for his tendency to favor Finns inexcusably, his tendency to invent his own words and terms (which usually got the co-commentator to offer a dry clarification, usually Keke Rosberg) and his overly-enthusiastic commentatingstyle. Even if you don't understand a word of finnish, give it a listen. Well worth it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8X817BXerqA

RonDenisDeletraz · Post by **RonDenisDeletraz** » 24 Jul 2013, 09:55

CoopsII wrote:
eurobrun wrote:
CoopsII wrote:Adelaide was better than Melbourne is.

Yes, this 100 billion times

If you 'Foe'd roblomas then you wont know but he agrees with you. See? Common ground, we're all not so different after all

No, I really can't see the reason for the friend/foe system

CoopsII · Post by **CoopsII** » 24 Jul 2013, 10:02

eurobrun wrote:No, I really can't see the reason for the friend/foe system

It has entertainment value, I'll give it that.

Gerudo Dragon · Post by **Gerudo Dragon** » 24 Jul 2013, 10:50

eurobrun wrote:No, I really can't see the reason for the friend/foe system

The friend system seems pointless, but while I personally don't use the foe system, I think that not having to scroll through the post's of a user you just don't get along with or don't like could be quite useful in reducing conflict.

Nessafox · Post by **Nessafox** » 24 Jul 2013, 22:37

Dark77 wrote:
eurobrun wrote:No, I really can't see the reason for the friend/foe system
The friend system seems pointless, but while I personally don't use the foe system, I think that not having to scroll through the post's of a user you just don't get along with or don't like could be quite useful in reducing conflict.

Did you people know this feature has been on here for years?

FullMetalJack · Post by **FullMetalJack** » 25 Jul 2013, 00:10

This wrote:
Dark77 wrote:
eurobrun wrote:No, I really can't see the reason for the friend/foe system
The friend system seems pointless, but while I personally don't use the foe system, I think that not having to scroll through the post's of a user you just don't get along with or don't like could be quite useful in reducing conflict.

Did you people know this feature has been on here for years?

Yes. I just can't be arsed to use it though.

AdrianSutil · Post by **AdrianSutil** » 25 Jul 2013, 10:15

I honestly didn't know the friend/foe option existed. But the only reason I'd use the foe option is if a member continually posts random and pointless drivel right in the middle of a good discussion, taking the 'spark' out of the chat. I hate people who change a conversation for no reason other to vent their useless opinion.

That's why I like this place so much, you can actually have a decent conversation without a million fanboys crying every five minutes.

watka · Post by **watka** » 25 Jul 2013, 15:38

AdrianSutil wrote:That's why I like this place so much, you can actually have a decent conversation without a million fanboys crying every five minutes.

Paul di Resta ROCKS!

good_Ralf · Post by **good_Ralf** » 25 Jul 2013, 16:29

watka wrote:
AdrianSutil wrote:That's why I like this place so much, you can actually have a decent conversation without a million fanboys crying every five minutes.

Paul di Resta ROCKS!

I was particularly impressed by his battle with Hamilton at Silverstone, so he can pass cars in style, not like predecessor Nick Heidfeld. But di Resta's downsides are that he might not have the raw pace to be a future champion and as for his ego, well...

Alextrax52 · Post by **Alextrax52** » 26 Jul 2013, 21:09

Germany are the best ever F1 country

dr-baker · Post by **dr-baker** » 26 Jul 2013, 21:21

Freeze-O-Kimi wrote:Germany are the best ever F1 country

Thanks to only two drivers. Britain statistically have been much, much better, in terms of total championships and wins, and numbers of drivers achieving wins and championships...

good_Ralf · Post by **good_Ralf** » 26 Jul 2013, 21:23

dr-baker wrote:
Freeze-O-Kimi wrote:Germany are the best ever F1 country

Thanks to only two drivers. Britain statistically have been much, much better, in terms of total championships and wins, and numbers of drivers achieving wins and championships...

Then I dare say Brazil are the best ever country! They have had three multiple champions and Barrichello and Massa (and Nasr in the future, heh, heh) have come close to winning titles too.

dr-baker · Post by **dr-baker** » 26 Jul 2013, 21:31

good_Ralf wrote:
dr-baker wrote:
Freeze-O-Kimi wrote:Germany are the best ever F1 country

Thanks to only two drivers. Britain statistically have been much, much better, in terms of total championships and wins, and numbers of drivers achieving wins and championships...

Then I dare say Brazil are the best ever country! They have had three multiple champions and Barrichello and Massa (and Nasr in the future, heh, heh) have come close to winning titles too.

Taking Britain as a whole, we have had Jim Clark, Jackie Stewart and Graham Hill as multiple champions, and at least 8 different drivers win titles (Hailwood, Clark, Hill, Stewart, Hunt, Hill, Hamilton, Button).

girry · Post by **girry** » 26 Jul 2013, 21:49

If Stefano Coletti was to break into F1 in a good car, Monaco would dominate the F1-points-per-inhabitant stat pretty soon...^^

Overall, obviously Britain is the best Formula One country....even atm. Germany would be 2nd if not for their less than great pre-1992 history, France passes them on basis of that.

watka · Post by **watka** » 26 Jul 2013, 23:15

Jochen Rindt was sort of German. Wolfgang von Trips was definitely German and also certainly would his won the title had he not died.

WaffleCat · Post by **WaffleCat** » 26 Jul 2013, 23:47

Freeze-O-Kimi wrote:Germany are the best ever F1 country

To be the best ever,they would have needed moderately successful drivers in each decade like Britian with Moss & Hawthorn in the 50's,practically every Brit in the 60's and early 70's,Hunt in the mid 70's,Mansell in the 1980's,Hill and Coulthard in the 90's, Hamilton and Button from late 2000's to now.

Germany,on the other hand,have almost no one from the Fiftiesl,only Von Trips in the sixties,cannot recall any German from the 70's except maybe Jochen Mass,same from the Eighties,and we all know the rest.

Nessafox · Post by **Nessafox** » 27 Jul 2013, 00:13

dr-baker wrote:
good_Ralf wrote:
dr-baker wrote:Thanks to only two drivers. Britain statistically have been much, much better, in terms of total championships and wins, and numbers of drivers achieving wins and championships...

Then I dare say Brazil are the best ever country! They have had three multiple champions and Barrichello and Massa (and Nasr in the future, heh, heh) have come close to winning titles too.

Taking Britain as a whole, we have had Jim Clark, Jackie Stewart and Graham Hill as multiple champions, and at least 8 different drivers win titles (Hailwood, Clark, Hill, Stewart, Hunt, Hill, Hamilton, Button).

He defenitely was a good formula one driver, but sadly, he never won anything. You confused him with some other motorcycle-champion perhaps?

dr-baker · Post by **dr-baker** » 27 Jul 2013, 11:17

This wrote:
dr-baker wrote:Taking Britain as a whole, we have had Jim Clark, Jackie Stewart and Graham Hill as multiple champions, and at least 8 different drivers win titles (Hailwood, Clark, Hill, Stewart, Hunt, Hill, Hamilton, Button).

He defenitely was a good formula one driver, but sadly, he never won anything. You confused him with some other motorcycle-champion perhaps?

Clearly I meant Hawthorn. For some bizarre, inexplicable reason, whenever I try to recall Hawthorn's name, I think of Hailwood instead.

And for this post, I actually had to go to Wikipedia to find out what his name actually was! :oops:

Salamander · Post by **Salamander** » 27 Jul 2013, 14:42

Freeze-O-Kimi wrote:Germany are the best ever F1 country

I wasn't aware Germany was plural. Anyway...

In terms of race wins and world championships per person, I think Finland far and away leads in that regard...

dr-baker wrote:
This wrote:
dr-baker wrote:Taking Britain as a whole, we have had Jim Clark, Jackie Stewart and Graham Hill as multiple champions, and at least 8 different drivers win titles (Hailwood, Clark, Hill, Stewart, Hunt, Hill, Hamilton, Button).

He defenitely was a good formula one driver, but sadly, he never won anything. You confused him with some other motorcycle-champion perhaps?

Clearly I meant Hawthorn. For some bizarre, inexplicable reason, whenever I try to recall Hawthorn's name, I think of Hailwood instead. And for this post, I actually had to go to Wikipedia to find out what his name actually was!

Either way, you did forget John Surtees.

good_Ralf · Post by **good_Ralf** » 27 Jul 2013, 14:53

Jacques Villeneuve deserved a 25-second time penalty in 1997 for passing Hill off the track on the last lap. If only the penalty was introduced before then for it would have given the win back to Hill and Arrows!

EDIT: I am at a relatives house in Cheshire and as there is a family event today I won't be able to find out the results of qualifying until I watch a repeat of it. Therefore I haven't contributed to the race thread and I don't want anyone to spoil it for me.

dr-baker · Post by **dr-baker** » 27 Jul 2013, 15:12

dr-baker wrote:Taking Britain as a whole, we have had Jim Clark, Jackie Stewart and Graham Hill as multiple champions, and at least 8 different drivers win titles (Hailwood, Clark, Hill, Stewart, Hunt, Hill, Hamilton, Button).

This wrote: He definitely was a good formula one driver, but sadly, he never won anything. You confused him with some other motorcycle-champion perhaps?

dr-baker wrote: Clearly I meant Hawthorn. For some bizarre, inexplicable reason, whenever I try to recall Hawthorn's name, I think of Hailwood instead. And for this post, I actually had to go to Wikipedia to find out what his name actually was!

Salamander wrote:Either way, you did forget John Surtees.

I did say Britain had at least 8 champions. Britain is clearly even better than that! 14 driver titles it is then. More in total than 10 scored in total by Germany...

Post by **mario** » 27 Jul 2013, 15:58

WaffleCat wrote:
Freeze-O-Kimi wrote:Germany are the best ever F1 country

To be the best ever,they would have needed moderately successful drivers in each decade like Britian with Moss & Hawthorn in the 50's,practically every Brit in the 60's and early 70's,Hunt in the mid 70's,Mansell in the 1980's,Hill and Coulthard in the 90's, Hamilton and Button from late 2000's to now.

Germany,on the other hand,have almost no one from the Fiftiesl,only Von Trips in the sixties,cannot recall any German from the 70's except maybe Jochen Mass,same from the Eighties,and we all know the rest.

There were only a handful of German drivers in F1 in the 1970's - Mass, Stommelen, Stuck and Heyer, and only the first three entered in multiple races.

It is not just in terms of drivers that Germany has kind of underdelivered - there have not been a great number of German based constructors either, and that is despite the fact that they have had a great number of manufacturers who could have supported them. There have been 11 German constructors in F1 (all of which, save Mercedes, are defunct), although most of those were pretty limited in terms of entries (Behra-Porsche, AFM, Kauhsen, Eifelland, Klenk and Veritas all appeared less than 10 times, with the entries by Veritas by private entrants rather than works entries and Klenk being little more than a modified Veritas F2 car).

Only Porsche (just about) and Mercedes really achieved anything of note in terms of success outright as manufacturers (I suppose BMW-Sauber could be included there) and even then Mercedes have managed more victories in this season than all of the other German constructors achieved combined. As engine suppliers, only Mercedes, BMW and perhaps Porsche (in terms of the Porsche-TAG engine) have had any real success, and in the case of Mercedes their engine division started out as a separate organisation (Ilmor).

Nessafox · Post by **Nessafox** » 27 Jul 2013, 21:00

dr-baker wrote:
dr-baker wrote:Taking Britain as a whole, we have had Jim Clark, Jackie Stewart and Graham Hill as multiple champions, and at least 8 different drivers win titles (Hailwood, Clark, Hill, Stewart, Hunt, Hill, Hamilton, Button).
This wrote: He definitely was a good formula one driver, but sadly, he never won anything. You confused him with some other motorcycle-champion perhaps?
dr-baker wrote: Clearly I meant Hawthorn. For some bizarre, inexplicable reason, whenever I try to recall Hawthorn's name, I think of Hailwood instead. And for this post, I actually had to go to Wikipedia to find out what his name actually was!
Salamander wrote:Either way, you did forget John Surtees.

I did say Britain had at least 8 champions. Britain is clearly even better than that! 14 driver titles it is then. More in total than 10 scored in total by Germany...

I assumed you mixed up Hailwood with Surtees, but then i forgot about Hawthorne. Well, the Britains sure did win a lot.
If you consider Cosworth as British (some could argue because Ford isn't British), then the discussion is solved very quickly.

wsrgo · Post by **wsrgo** » 28 Jul 2013, 04:59

I think Schumacher, even after his retirement, is still considered to be the most hated driver, to the extent that when he states a fact that is widely accepted by most people, they find faults in the fact itself.
Michael recently said that the top four drivers in the sport are the top four in the championship currently, a fact that is widely accepted. However quite a few people have considered this to be a 'jibe' at Rosberg, who has actively countered Schumacher's opinion.
I believe some people, like Schumacher, will always be hated and condemned as 'the worst thing to happen to F1', no matter what he does. People criticise the fact that he keeps his personal life private and away from the media, but I'm sure people would be lambasting that as well.

Gerudo Dragon · Post by **Gerudo Dragon** » 29 Jul 2013, 15:56

Danny Sullivan deserved another year in F1.

Salamander · Post by **Salamander** » 29 Jul 2013, 16:58

The Hungaroring is actually not that bad.

good_Ralf · Post by **good_Ralf** » 29 Jul 2013, 17:05

Salamander wrote:The Hungaroring is actually not that bad.

1986, 1989, 1990, 1992, 1997, 2003, 2006 and 2008 have all been good races.

1986: A race long duel between Senna and Piquet for victory in the first ever race there
1989: Mansell charges to win after starting in the midfield, with a brilliant pass on Senna
1990: Boutsen scores his last win after holding off many drivers in baking hit condition
1992: Nigel Mansell is World Champion after an excellent recovery drive
1997: Damon Hill wins almost in a car that wasn't even meant to score points!
2003: First win for Alonso and Ralf S. proves you can pass in places
2006: First wet race caused double-DNF for Renault and Button scored his first win
2008: Massa blows up giving HK his only win in F1, with Glock in P2

takagi_for_the_win · Post by **takagi_for_the_win** » 29 Jul 2013, 17:11

Salamander wrote:The Hungaroring is actually not that bad.

Seconded.

Alextrax52 · Post by **Alextrax52** » 29 Jul 2013, 17:15

good_Ralf wrote:
Salamander wrote:The Hungaroring is actually not that bad.

1986, 1989, 1990, 1992, 1997, 2003, 2006 and 2008 have all been good races.

1986: A race long duel between Senna and Piquet for victory in the first ever race there
1989: Mansell charges to win after starting in the midfield, with a brilliant pass on Senna
1990: Boutsen scores his last win after holding off many drivers in baking hit condition
1992: Nigel Mansell is World Champion after an excellent recovery drive
1997: Damon Hill wins almost in a car that wasn't even meant to score points!
2003: First win for Alonso and Ralf S. proves you can pass in places
2006: First wet race caused double-DNF for Renault and Button scored his first win
2008: Massa blows up giving HK his only win in F1, with Glock in P2

Add 2011 when it was wet and Mclaren blew Vettel away

takagi_for_the_win · Post by **takagi_for_the_win** » 31 Jul 2013, 15:21

I might well get burned at the stake for this but here goes: I am on the stewards side regarding Grosjeans DTP for his move on Massa at the weekend.

Why? Well, let me take you back to the closing laps of last years German grand prix. Sebastian Vettel is all over the back of Jenson Button, who is lying in second. Coming into the hairpin at the top of the track, Vettel tries an audacious move around the outside of Button and manages to pull it off, and crosses the line in second. However, in passing Button, Vettel put all 4 wheels over the white line signifying the track boundary and onto the run-off, and was adjudged to have exceeded track limits; thus, he was later demoted from second to fifth.

Having only seen Grosjeans move on Massa from the angles available on the BBC, it appeared to me that the Lotus had all 4 wheels over the white line, on the run-off, similar to Vettel last year. Of course, the fact that if Grosjean hadn't done that, a big crash was inevitable was lost on the stewards, but they are Stewards of fact, and they must adhere to the rules, and judge what can be judged. Yes, it was harsh, penalising such a brilliant move and yes, it killed Grosjeans race, but if they'd let it go, it would've set a precedent for future incidents.

Salamander · Post by **Salamander** » 31 Jul 2013, 15:26

takagi_for_the_win wrote:I might well get burned at the stake for this but here goes: I am on the stewards side regarding Grosjeans DTP for his move on Massa at the weekend.

Why? Well, let me take you back to the closing laps of last years German grand prix. Sebastian Vettel is all over the back of Jenson Button, who is lying in second. Coming into the hairpin at the top of the track, Vettel tries an audacious move around the outside of Button and manages to pull it off, and crosses the line in second. However, in passing Button, Vettel put all 4 wheels over the white line signifying the track boundary and onto the run-off, and was adjudged to have exceeded track limits; thus, he was later demoted from second to fifth.

Having only seen Grosjeans move on Massa from the angles available on the BBC, it appeared to me that the Lotus had all 4 wheels over the white line, on the run-off, similar to Vettel last year. Of course, the fact that if Grosjean hadn't done that, a big crash was inevitable was lost on the stewards, but they are Stewards of fact, and they must adhere to the rules, and judge what can be judged. Yes, it was harsh, penalising such a brilliant move and yes, it killed Grosjeans race, but if they'd let it go, it would've set a precedent for future incidents.

That's a good point actually. The difference for me though, is that Button left enough room for Vettel to complete the move without resorting to the runoff. Massa did not do that with Grosjean, I believe.