Unpopular F1 opinions

dr-baker · Post by **dr-baker** » 03 Aug 2013, 18:11

good_Ralf wrote:[
dr-baker wrote:Although this original wasn't too bad (from this angle only !!!):

Yeah. It was an OK livery but the zip spoilt everything.

Hence my "from this angle only" comment! But yes, we seem to be in agreement...

AdrianSutil · Post by **AdrianSutil** » 03 Aug 2013, 18:56

dr-baker wrote:
good_Ralf wrote:[
dr-baker wrote:Although this original wasn't too bad (from this angle only !!!):

Yeah. It was an OK livery but the zip spoilt everything.

Hence my "from this angle only" comment! But yes, we seem to be in agreement...

Agree with you Baker. Before zipgate, the 555 car was a thing of beauty:

WaffleCat · Post by **WaffleCat** » 03 Aug 2013, 23:08

AdrianSutil wrote:
dr-baker wrote:
good_Ralf wrote:[
Agree with you Baker. Before zipgate, the 555 car was a thing of beauty:

Best livery that B.A.R/Honda/Brawn has ever produced. Honestly.

Shame that,by the looks of things,that car was only run as a Friday test car for a Chinese GP in 2004 or 2005.

Dj_bereta · Post by **Dj_bereta** » 04 Aug 2013, 01:51

good_Ralf wrote:Jacques Villeneuve deserved a 25-second time penalty in 1997 for passing Hill off the track on the last lap. If only the penalty was introduced before then for it would have given the win back to Hill and Arrows!

In other hand, Hill just threw your car against Villeneuve in a manouver could had led to a serious crash.

Also, a relative unpopular opinion:

Stewards are too much restrictive. For example, Coulthard crashed three times in Spa 98 and got nothing. Grosjean did do 50% what Coulthard did in Hungaroring and got 2 penalties.

With 90s style of stewards, the races could become more attractive, with drivers not fearing getting a penalty and doing more overtakes.

Post by **mario** » 04 Aug 2013, 07:46

Dj_bereta wrote:
good_Ralf wrote:Jacques Villeneuve deserved a 25-second time penalty in 1997 for passing Hill off the track on the last lap. If only the penalty was introduced before then for it would have given the win back to Hill and Arrows!

In other hand, Hill just threw your car against Villeneuve in a manouver could had led to a serious crash.

Also, a relative unpopular opinion:

Stewards are too much restrictive. For example, Coulthard crashed three times in Spa 98 and got nothing. Grosjean did do 50% what Coulthard did in Hungaroring and got 2 penalties.

With 90s style of stewards, the races could become more attractive, with drivers not fearing getting a penalty and doing more overtakes.

In Coulthard's case, part of the reason why the stewards were relatively lenient on him was because of the conditions - the very poor visibility and slippery track meant that accidents were far more likely to occur and the stewards took that into account.

In the case of Grosjean in Hungary, I think that part of the problem the stewards faced was the fact that the rule in question is so unambiguous that it gave them no real wriggle room when it came to the pass on Massa (the rules rather explicitly state that the driver has to stay within the white lines that define the limits of the track when passing another car, and with Grosjean having all four wheels off the track at the time, even though the pass was spectacular, it was also technically outside of the rules).
As for his clash with Button, I think that the reason why the stewards penalised him was that, after the race, Grosjean admitted in the post race inquiry that he was at fault for that collision - he openly stated that he'd misjudged Button's relative position and turned into him, which, if you're acting strictly in accordance with the regulations, obliges them to apply a penalty.

I have to agree with one thing, though, which is that the consistency of the penalties from the stewards does need reviewing - I know that the former medical director, Hartstein, has complained that he feels Todt is handing out stewarding roles on political grounds rather than what is best for the drivers, and I would agree with his call for a professional panel of stewards to be set up for the future.

Alextrax52 · Post by **Alextrax52** » 06 Aug 2013, 23:09

I like Germany's current dominace of F1

Gerudo Dragon · Post by **Gerudo Dragon** » 06 Aug 2013, 23:15

F1 is overall the most boring motorsports championship in the world and has been for a few years now.

Salamander · Post by **Salamander** » 07 Aug 2013, 05:18

Dark77 wrote:F1 is overall the most boring motorsports championship in the world and has been for a few years now.

Yeah, I couldn't disagree more with this.

CoopsII · Post by **CoopsII** » 07 Aug 2013, 06:57

Dark77 wrote:F1 is overall the most boring motorsports championship in the world and has been for a few years now.

You're not a fan then? :lol:

andrew2209 · Post by **andrew2209** » 07 Aug 2013, 08:31

The Old Hockenheim and Monza were a lot more similar than people think.

Faustus · Post by **Faustus** » 07 Aug 2013, 09:16

andrew2209 wrote:The Old Hockenheim and Monza were a lot more similar than people think.

No, not really, quite the opposite. They were similar only in that both had long straights and chicanes, but very dissimilar in elevation changes, track camber, corners (Monza has high-speed corners, Hockenheim only slow corners) and it was worth running a medium downforce setup at Hockenheim because of the stadium section.

roblo97 · Post by **roblo97** » 07 Aug 2013, 10:07

Salamander wrote:
Dark77 wrote:F1 is overall the most boring motorsports championship in the world and has been for a few years now.

Yeah, I couldn't disagree more with this.

It's a shame you can't get Indy cars on free to air tv IMHO

go_Rubens · Post by **go_Rubens** » 07 Aug 2013, 14:42

roblomas52 wrote:t's a shame you can't get Indy cars on free to air tv IMHO

Yeah it is! When will they realize Indy has had much better racing than F1 the past 2 years combined?

I am still a F1 fan, but the racing in IndyCars is much better. Worth watching.

Salamander · Post by **Salamander** » 07 Aug 2013, 16:23

go_Rubens wrote:
roblomas52 wrote:t's a shame you can't get Indy cars on free to air tv IMHO

Yeah it is! When will they realize Indy has had much better racing than F1 the past 2 years combined?

I am still a F1 fan, but the racing in IndyCars is much better. Worth watching.

When IndyCars stops being a US-centric series. So, never.

go_Rubens · Post by **go_Rubens** » 08 Aug 2013, 01:17

Salamander wrote:
go_Rubens wrote:
roblomas52 wrote:t's a shame you can't get Indy cars on free to air tv IMHO

Yeah it is! When will they realize Indy has had much better racing than F1 the past 2 years combined?

I am still a F1 fan, but the racing in IndyCars is much better. Worth watching.

When IndyCars stops being a US-centric series. So, never.

I see your point. All of 'em are in the US except for the Canadian races and Sau Paulo. So that sucks.

Dj_bereta · Post by **Dj_bereta** » 08 Aug 2013, 17:25

F1 needs to return to Indianapolis, but with a new layout.

Like this:

Salamander · Post by **Salamander** » 08 Aug 2013, 17:40

Dj_bereta wrote:F1 needs to return to Indianapolis, but with a new layout.

Like this:

Fixed.

Nessafox · Post by **Nessafox** » 08 Aug 2013, 22:24

Talented people are more often than not boring to watch. People making mistakes and saying stupid things, that's more entertaining to watch.

Onxy Wrecked · Post by **Onxy Wrecked** » 09 Aug 2013, 03:18

This wrote:Talented people are more often than not boring to watch. People making mistakes and saying stupid things, that's more entertaining to watch.

Unless it's watching a talented driver driving a backmarker's pace to save fuel and being outrun by an entertaining and less talented driver.

go_Rubens · Post by **go_Rubens** » 09 Aug 2013, 15:13

Onxy Wrecked wrote:
This wrote:Talented people are more often than not boring to watch. People making mistakes and saying stupid things, that's more entertaining to watch.

Unless it's watching a talented driver driving a backmarker's pace to save fuel and being outrun by an entertaining and less talented driver.

Which is NASCAR fuel mileage racing. Which is also crap.

Alextrax52 · Post by **Alextrax52** » 13 Aug 2013, 11:26

FullMetalJack wrote:
good_Ralf wrote:
Freeze-O-Kimi wrote:Last year's Sauber looks beautiful

Fixed In my opinion it is comparable to a duck's bill

The panels on either side of the 2013 car side the stepped nose so I agree it looks a bit better.

Ugh, last year's Sauber was the 2nd ugliest car on the grid. The Ferrari takes the cake.

I liked last Year's Ferrari to be honest. It was the Lotus that took the cake for the ugliest car in 2012 in my book

good_Ralf · Post by **good_Ralf** » 13 Aug 2013, 11:30

Freeze-O-Kimi wrote:I liked last Year's Ferrari to be honest. It was the Lotus that took the cake for the ugliest car in 2012 in my book

Thinking of ugly cars, what about the Toyota TF109, with that weird looking really high nose?

CoopsII · Post by **CoopsII** » 13 Aug 2013, 11:32

Dj_bereta wrote:F1 needs to return to Indianapolis, but with a new layout.

They should've just let them loose on the full oval with allowances for car set-up changes, different wings, whatever. Going to Indy and racing that wanky infield circuit was a bit like going to the cinema to watch Star Wars Episode VII only to sit and watch Star Wars Episode I. On an Ipad. With a cracked screen. And no sound.

Alextrax52 · Post by **Alextrax52** » 13 Aug 2013, 11:33

good_Ralf wrote:
Freeze-O-Kimi wrote:I liked last Year's Ferrari to be honest. It was the Lotus that took the cake for the ugliest car in 2012 in my book

Thinking of ugly cars, what about the Toyota TF109, with that weird looking really high nose?

The Rear wing they introduced mid-season which saw the bottom almost touching the track was ugly as well

good_Ralf · Post by **good_Ralf** » 13 Aug 2013, 11:40

CoopsII wrote:
Dj_bereta wrote:F1 needs to return to Indianapolis, but with a new layout.

I like the idea of racing there but for certain reasons we may never return. Here is what Nigel Roebuck had to say.

Aerospeed · Post by **Aerospeed** » 13 Aug 2013, 12:50

good_Ralf wrote:
CoopsII wrote:
Dj_bereta wrote:F1 needs to return to Indianapolis, but with a new layout.

I like the idea of racing there but for certain reasons we may never return. Here is what Nigel Roebuck had to say.

Another reason - we already have a circuit in America which suits us just fine, and there's a possibility of having another in New Jersey. Plus, I don't think any team in F1 would want to return to a circuit that has a history of tire problems in an era where tires are basically priority #1 in terms of race management.

Alextrax52 · Post by **Alextrax52** » 13 Aug 2013, 13:17

WaffleCat wrote:
Freeze-O-Kimi wrote:Germany are the best ever F1 country

To be the best ever,they would have needed moderately successful drivers in each decade like Britian with Moss & Hawthorn in the 50's,practically every Brit in the 60's and early 70's,Hunt in the mid 70's,Mansell in the 1980's,Hill and Coulthard in the 90's, Hamilton and Button from late 2000's to now.

Germany,on the other hand,have almost no one from the Fiftiesl,only Von Trips in the sixties,cannot recall any German from the 70's except maybe Jochen Mass,same from the Eighties,and we all know the rest.

Germany might not have had a successful time throughout Formula 1 as a whole but for me the sight of Vettel Rosberg and Sutil running 1-2-3 at Silverstone this year sums up which country is in charge of F1 at the moment

CoopsII · Post by **CoopsII** » 13 Aug 2013, 18:28

Freeze-O-Kimi wrote:Germany might not have had a successful time throughout Formula 1 as a whole but for me the sight of Vettel Rosberg and Sutil running 1-2-3 at Silverstone this year sums up which country is in charge of F1 at the moment

Austria, Finland and India?

Germany is really enjoying the fruits of the Schumacher-effect at the moment, if Vettel is as popular there as MSC (because I have no idea) I can see this reich continuing for some time to come.

Until the full force of Venezuela comes to bear.

watka · Post by **watka** » 13 Aug 2013, 23:08

CoopsII wrote:
Freeze-O-Kimi wrote:Germany might not have had a successful time throughout Formula 1 as a whole but for me the sight of Vettel Rosberg and Sutil running 1-2-3 at Silverstone this year sums up which country is in charge of F1 at the moment

Austria, Finland and India?

Germany is really enjoying the fruits of the Schumacher-effect at the moment, if Vettel is as popular there as MSC (because I have no idea) I can see this reich continuing for some time to come.

Until the full force of Venezuela comes to bear.

+1 for podium of Maldonado, Cecotto Jr and Gonzalez!

gnrpoison · Post by **gnrpoison** » 14 Aug 2013, 02:52

Freeze-O-Kimi wrote:
WaffleCat wrote:
Freeze-O-Kimi wrote:Germany are the best ever F1 country

To be the best ever,they would have needed moderately successful drivers in each decade like Britian with Moss & Hawthorn in the 50's,practically every Brit in the 60's and early 70's,Hunt in the mid 70's,Mansell in the 1980's,Hill and Coulthard in the 90's, Hamilton and Button from late 2000's to now.

Germany,on the other hand,have almost no one from the Fiftiesl,only Von Trips in the sixties,cannot recall any German from the 70's except maybe Jochen Mass,same from the Eighties,and we all know the rest.

Germany might not have had a successful time throughout Formula 1 as a whole but for me the sight of Vettel Rosberg and Sutil running 1-2-3 at Silverstone this year sums up which country is in charge of F1 at the moment

Be interesting to see the entries for the WSC in the 1980s with the Group C cars as didn't Germany pretty much dominate that, even today Audi have been the team to beat in sportscars as I think Porsche were very successful in both the 80s and 90s in sportscars.

Post by **mario** » 14 Aug 2013, 07:28

gnrpoison wrote:Be interesting to see the entries for the WSC in the 1980s with the Group C cars as didn't Germany pretty much dominate that, even today Audi have been the team to beat in sportscars as I think Porsche were very successful in both the 80s and 90s in sportscars.

Porsche was the dominant manufacturer in the C1 category for the first half of the 1980's, and German drivers were also very prominent in the WSC in that era too - that said, in the latter half of the 1980's Porsche did eventually lose out to Jaguar and Sauber, though Sauber, I suppose, does partially count towards the German dominance of the WSC through its links with Mercedes.
The C2 category, though, was a very different story - that was pretty much dominated by the Italians (Lancia) and British (Spice Engineering) in that time frame, with the only regular German presence being BMW engine supplies to some of the privateer entrants.

takagi_for_the_win · Post by **takagi_for_the_win** » 14 Aug 2013, 10:06

CoopsII wrote:
Freeze-O-Kimi wrote:Germany might not have had a successful time throughout Formula 1 as a whole but for me the sight of Vettel Rosberg and Sutil running 1-2-3 at Silverstone this year sums up which country is in charge of F1 at the moment

Austria, Finland and India?

Germany is really enjoying the fruits of the Schumacher-effect at the moment, if Vettel is as popular there as MSC (because I have no idea) I can see this reich continuing for some time to come.

Until the full force of Venezuela comes to bear.

No. Just wait til the Hungary/Israel alliance starts to bear fruit

dinizintheoven · Post by **dinizintheoven** » 14 Aug 2013, 14:53

takagi_for_the_win wrote:No. Just wait til the Hungary/Israel alliance starts to bear fruit

Chanoch Nissany wrote:Shalom.

HWNSNBM wrote:A légpárnás hajóm teli van angolnákkal.

Don Pentecost wrote:AAAAWWWW, DAAANG IT! THE INTERNATIONAL JEWISH ZIONIST CONSPIRACY AND THE GODDAMN COMMIES ARE CONSPIRING IN A CONSPIRACY TO TURN FORMULA 1, A REGISTERED TRADEMARK OF THE FORMULA 1 CORPORATION OF FORMULA 1, INTO A PROPAGANDA SHOW FOR COMMIES AND JEWS! THIS IS TERRIBLE! FORMULA 1, A REGISTERED TRADEMARK OF THE FORMULA 1 CORPORATION OF FORMULA 1, NEEDS FORCE 1 USA, A REGISTERED TRADEMARK OF DON PENTECOST, THE WORLD'S OLDEST FORMULA 1 CHAMPION, TO SAVE IT WITH GOD AND JESUS AND TRUE AMERICAN FREEDOM AND MY WORLD-SAVING ENERGY GENERATION SYSTEM THAT WILL PROVE ONCE AND FOR ALL TO THESE GODLESS SCIENTIST COMMIES THAT PERPETUAL MOTION MACHINES ARE REAL AND WILL SAVE AMERICA! WE'RE COMING FOR YOU, JEWS AND COMMIES, YOU WILL BE DESTROYED, I WILL BE THE CHAMPION, AND I'LL SHOW THAT VETTEL A THING OR TWO THAT I'M ELEVENTY THOUSAND ZILLION TIMES BETTER A DRIVER THAN HE EVER WILL BE AND I'M OLD ENOUGH TO BE HIS GRANDPAPPY! AMERICA! FREEDOM! AMERICA! (etc etc etc, lots of tubthumping waffle, punctuated by the not-so-occasional sound of gunfire)

HWNSNBM wrote:Quiet, you.

Don Pentecost wrote:Yes, sir.

Gerudo Dragon · Post by **Gerudo Dragon** » 18 Aug 2013, 03:03

There is no such thing as a worthy F1 champion, they all had the best car so their only real achievement was beating their teammate.

Post by **mario** » 18 Aug 2013, 06:26

Dark77 wrote:There is no such thing as a worthy F1 champion, they all had the best car so their only real achievement was beating their teammate.

Whilst it is true that often the champion would have access to the best car at the same time, that is not always the case. Prost's title in 1986 comes to mind, since the FW11 was a superior car to the MP4/2C (bear in mind, as Oatley once pointed out, that the MP4/2 series was ultimately an evolution of the MP4/1, so it was a fairly rapidly ageing design by that point).

Gerudo Dragon · Post by **Gerudo Dragon** » 22 Aug 2013, 00:23

F1 should have success ballast.

go_Rubens · Post by **go_Rubens** » 22 Aug 2013, 00:26

Dark77 wrote:There is no such thing as a worthy F1 champion, they all had the best car so their only real achievement was beating their teammate.

Unpopular that shall remain with me. There are plenty of worthy champions. Those who were gracious and sportsmanlike deserve to be champions, as well as real talents.

watka · Post by **watka** » 22 Aug 2013, 21:42

Dark77 wrote:F1 should have success ballast.

F1 should have reverse grids.

takagi_for_the_win · Post by **takagi_for_the_win** » 22 Aug 2013, 21:47

watka wrote:
Dark77 wrote:F1 should have success ballast.

F1 should have reverse grids.

Remember Mr Mosely's idea to have all the drivers swap teams at each race?

F1 shoud have it.

watka · Post by **watka** » 22 Aug 2013, 21:54

takagi_for_the_win wrote:
watka wrote:
Dark77 wrote:F1 should have success ballast.

F1 should have reverse grids.

Remember Mr Mosely's idea to have all the drivers swap teams at each race?

F1 shoud have it.

We have a winner!