Ponderbox

andrew2209 · Post by **andrew2209** » 24 Jul 2013, 11:12

good_Ralf wrote:Is the old F1 ident (used until 2003) by FOM with the rock tune the best ever? Or are the new intros better?

Somebody put that music to the modern indents and see if it works.

dinizintheoven · Post by **dinizintheoven** » 25 Jul 2013, 01:57

Fun facts of the day, regarding "new teams", sparked by the REECCS thread which saw me comparing qualifying times from the 1997 and 2012 Australian Grand Prix. Bear in mind the circuit hasn't changed at all in those fifteen years...

- Rubens Barrichello's 1997 qualifying time, the first ever set by a Stewart, was faster than both HRTs in 2012...
- ...but the HRTs set times that would have put them 14th (De La Rosa) and 15th (Karthikeyan).
- Both 2012 Caterhams set a time good enough for pole in 1997...
- Timo Glock's 2012 Marussia could only manage second on the 1997 grid, though this is because Jacques "what do you mean, talentless" Villeneuve was faster than everyone else by a clear 1.8 seconds...
- Charles Pic would have been fifth
- the top six in 1997 (both cars from Williams, Ferrari and McLaren) beat the 107% time to qualify for the 2012 race...
- of those six, the positions their 1997 times were good for on the 2012 grid were: Villeneuve 21st; Frentzen, Schumacher, Coulthard 22nd; Irvine, Häkkinen 23rd (and qualified for the race)

Also, the 2010 qualifying times were about a second faster than those in 2012, presumably due to the technical tricks (blown diffuser etc) that had yet to be removed from the cars. Villeneuve's 1997 pole time was still enough to beat both the Virgins and Hispanias in 2010 and 2011. There's no comparison for this year because of the wet Q1.

So what of our other favourite reject team, Super Aguri?

2006: trying to qualify in a make-do-and-mend 2002 Arrows would have seen Sato seventh on the 1997 grid... and Ide off the deep end, two tenths slower than Pedro Diniz who was outside 107% and only allowed to start because he made the cut in practice.
2007: this time with a previously winning car, Sato would have been on 1997 pole by anything up to two and a half seconds (with his Q2 time, he made it into Q3), Davidson's times would have done much the same.
2008: on the way down again with an evil-handling crapbox, the rebadged Honda RA107... but both Sato's and Davidson's times still beat the 1997 pole.

UncreativeUsername37 · Post by **UncreativeUsername37** » 25 Jul 2013, 22:31

When people say car racing is just cars going round in circles, are they implying they like rallying?

FullMetalJack · Post by **FullMetalJack** » 25 Jul 2013, 22:39

UgncreativeUsergname wrote:When people say car racing is just cars going round in circles, are they implying they like rallying?

I don't know, although that's because I don't know anyone who likes rallying. At least as far as I know.

Aerospeed · Post by **Aerospeed** » 26 Jul 2013, 03:01

UgncreativeUsergname wrote:When people say car racing is just cars going round in circles, are they implying they like rallying?

Or drag racing?

WaffleCat · Post by **WaffleCat** » 26 Jul 2013, 03:23

UgncreativeUsergname wrote:When people say car racing is just cars going round in circles, are they implying they like rallying?

That means they like motor racing on every track that isn't Nardo.

CoopsII · Post by **CoopsII** » 26 Jul 2013, 08:52

UgncreativeUsergname wrote:When people say car racing is just cars going round in circles, are they implying they like rallying?

I honestly have no idea how one would go about liking rallying. Dont get me wrong I have maximum respect for them and in alot of ways they're better car drivers than the F1 guys but its not a sport that, to me, lends itself to live coverage so it always seems to be boxed into a highlights program, one hour of decent footage, nine hours of boredom.

AdrianSutil · Post by **AdrianSutil** » 26 Jul 2013, 11:31

I quite liked the WRC several years ago, drivers like Makkinen, Gronholm, Burns, McRae, Panizzi, Hirvonen, Sainz, Solberg ect but I honestly couldn't give you the names of three drivers competing this year. Virtually no TV coverage is a problem I think.

Alextrax52 · Post by **Alextrax52** » 26 Jul 2013, 11:42

The WRC used to be ace with Citroen Ford Subaru Peugeot Skoda Hyundai and Mitsubishi all involved in the early 2000's. I want to return to that era.

good_Ralf · Post by **good_Ralf** » 26 Jul 2013, 11:48

Freeze-O-Kimi wrote:The WRC used to be ace with Citroen Ford Subaru Peugeot Skoda Hyundai and Mitsubishi all involved in the early 2000's. I want to return to that era.

There are just 4 manufacturers in WRC. These are Citroen, Ford, Mini and Volkswagen.

Alextrax52 · Post by **Alextrax52** » 26 Jul 2013, 11:50

good_Ralf wrote:
Freeze-O-Kimi wrote:The WRC used to be ace with Citroen Ford Subaru Peugeot Skoda Hyundai and Mitsubishi all involved in the early 2000's. I want to return to that era.

There are just 4 manufacturers in WRC. These are Citroen, Ford, Mini and Volkswagen.

Did you not read what i just said? In the early 2000's we had the likes of Peugeot dominating and Subaru were competitive while Citroen were getting up to speed. Plus Skoda and Mitsubishi put in the odd good drive as well

good_Ralf · Post by **good_Ralf** » 26 Jul 2013, 12:10

Freeze-O-Kimi wrote:
good_Ralf wrote:
Freeze-O-Kimi wrote:The WRC used to be ace with Citroen Ford Subaru Peugeot Skoda Hyundai and Mitsubishi all involved in the early 2000's. I want to return to that era.

There are just 4 manufacturers in WRC. These are Citroen, Ford, Mini and Volkswagen.

Did you not read what i just said? In the early 2000's we had the likes of Peugeot dominating and Subaru were competitive while Citroen were getting up to speed. Plus Skoda and Mitsubishi put in the odd good drive as well

I was looking at your post and you mentioned loads of manufacturers, so I wondered how many there are racing today. I'm not really into rallying but I can understand why it was so much more exciting about 10 years ago. There were far more manufacturers than there are now (Mitsubishi. Subaru, Peugeot, Skoda and Hyundai are gone) and the fact that some manufacturers were closely matched made it more exciting.

girry · Post by **girry** » 26 Jul 2013, 14:56

Actually you're wrong....only Volkswagen and Citroen are racing in WRC with factory support atm; and even of them, Citroen's effort is kind of a half-assed one really, as Loeb left. The main Fiestas are ran by a privateer, and Mini meant to come in in 2011 but just as they got up to speed, BMW pulled out of funding them and now the few minis are raced by 50 year old rich amateurs.

watka · Post by **watka** » 26 Jul 2013, 23:10

Sebastian Loeb and Citroen has been 10x worse for rallying than Schumacher ever was for F1, its in a right state now.

It's naturally pretty difficult to film given the length of the stages, as you can't have cameras everywhere along the course. Plus there is no wheel to wheel action.

LionZoo · Post by **LionZoo** » 26 Jul 2013, 23:17

It's kind of a shame. I absolutely love rallying; it's tied with F1 as my favorite sport. The concept of point A to point B racing is something that is spectacular you really can't compare it to circuit racing. For me, I absolutely prefer to drive a nice 50 km stretch of mountain roads than go on the track.

Alextrax52 · Post by **Alextrax52** » 27 Jul 2013, 13:57

UgncreativeUsergname wrote:When people say car racing is just cars going round in circles, are they implying they like rallying?

you mention the dreaded phrase that no F1 fan wants to hear. That has no place in motorsport

dr-baker · Post by **dr-baker** » 27 Jul 2013, 21:22

Freeze-O-Kimi wrote:
UgncreativeUsergname wrote:When people say car racing is just cars going round in circles, are they implying they like rallying?

you mention the dreaded phrase that no F1 fan wants to hear. That has no place in motorsport

That phrase might apply to this failed attempt of a track design, but even then is not a perfect circle...

good_Ralf · Post by **good_Ralf** » 27 Jul 2013, 21:28

[quote="dr-baker"That phrase might apply to this failed attempt of a track design, but even then is not a perfect circle...[/quote]

Would make a good IndyCar venue though. "And Sebastien Bourdais wins the Disneyland Grand Prix of Paris!"

watka · Post by **watka** » 28 Jul 2013, 21:33

Does anyone else still think of Pedro de la Rosa instead of Paul di Resta when they see PDR on the time screens (even though de la Rosa was always DLR)? No? Just me then.

UncreativeUsername37 · Post by **UncreativeUsername37** » 31 Jul 2013, 15:02

watka wrote:Does anyone else still think of Pedro de la Rosa instead of Paul di Resta when they see PDR on the time screens (even though de la Rosa was always DLR)? No? Just me then.

He's DIR, is he not?

good_Ralf · Post by **good_Ralf** » 31 Jul 2013, 16:20

What happened to Earthdreams/ myearthdream.com ?

Aerospeed · Post by **Aerospeed** » 31 Jul 2013, 18:17

good_Ralf wrote:What happened to Earthdreams/ myearthdream.com ?

A quick lookup of the domain name, resulting in a no-name website, might give some hints...

takagi_for_the_win · Post by **takagi_for_the_win** » 01 Aug 2013, 13:58

I've just realised that this is Massa's 8th season with Ferrari! :shock:

How time flies....

Of course, he's spent about half of those seasons fighting to retain his seat as well...

good_Ralf · Post by **good_Ralf** » 01 Aug 2013, 14:07

takagi_for_the_win wrote:I've just realised that this is Massa's 8th season with Ferrari! How time flies....

Of course, he's spent about half of those seasons fighting to retain his seat as well...

He's 5th on the all time list of Grand Prix started (150) with the same team and guess who tops the list on 180. Felipe only needs to go to the end of 2014 or the start of 2015 to break the record.

roblo97 · Post by **roblo97** » 01 Aug 2013, 18:24

How much of a time difference would there be If this years cars had active suspension, abs, ebd, traction control, 4 wheel steer and launch control?

Post by **Ataxia** » 02 Aug 2013, 00:44

roblomas52 wrote:How much of a time difference would there be If this years cars had active suspension, abs, ebd, traction control, 4 wheel steer and launch control?

dr-baker · Post by **dr-baker** » 02 Aug 2013, 16:21

Ataxia wrote:
roblomas52 wrote:How much of a time difference would there be If this years cars had active suspension, abs, ebd, traction control, 4 wheel steer and launch control?

Well I would say in the order of 0 to 80 seconds faster around somewhere like Monza. Assuming that they would not be slower of course...

watka · Post by **watka** » 04 Aug 2013, 23:14

Whatever happened to Craig Dolby?

shinji · Post by **shinji** » 04 Aug 2013, 23:36

watka wrote:Whatever happened to Craig Dolby?

Spurs bought Soldado and Paulinho so didn't really need him anymore.

Faustus · Post by **Faustus** » 05 Aug 2013, 15:53

watka wrote:Whatever happened to Craig Dolby?

He did 1 race in the British GT Championship last year, but that is all I know.

takagi_for_the_win · Post by **takagi_for_the_win** » 05 Aug 2013, 19:12

Do Red Bull still hold massive parties on the eve of Grand Prix weekends or have they given up on that?

pasta_maldonado · Post by **pasta_maldonado** » 07 Aug 2013, 15:41

Ataxia wrote:
roblomas52 wrote:How much of a time difference would there be If this years cars had active suspension, abs, ebd, traction control, 4 wheel steer and launch control?

Jocke1 · Post by **Jocke1** » 07 Aug 2013, 18:31

watka wrote:Whatever happened to Craig Dolby?

He changed his name to Draig Colby and moved to Cockermouth, U.K.

mediocre · Post by **mediocre** » 07 Aug 2013, 20:37

If it was the last race of 2013 and Webber was leading ahead of Vettel with Vettel having to win to secure the title and Webber playing no role in the title chase — what would happen?

roblo97 · Post by **roblo97** » 07 Aug 2013, 20:39

mediocre wrote:If it was the last race of 2013 and Webber was leading ahead of Vettel with Vettel having to win to secure the title and Webber playing no role in the title chase — what would happen?

Webber would let Vettel past just coming on to the pit straight although knowing Mark…

DonTirri · Post by **DonTirri** » 07 Aug 2013, 21:22

roblomas52 wrote:
mediocre wrote:If it was the last race of 2013 and Webber was leading ahead of Vettel with Vettel having to win to secure the title and Webber playing no role in the title chase — what would happen?

Webber would let Vettel past just coming on to the pit straight although knowing Mark…

He'd probably do what any away-going disgruntled no.2 would do. And stick it to Seb, costing him the title.
And there would be many cheers from the F1 communities including this one.

FullMetalJack · Post by **FullMetalJack** » 07 Aug 2013, 21:53

DonTirri wrote:
roblomas52 wrote:
mediocre wrote:If it was the last race of 2013 and Webber was leading ahead of Vettel with Vettel having to win to secure the title and Webber playing no role in the title chase — what would happen?

Webber would let Vettel past just coming on to the pit straight although knowing Mark…

He'd probably do what any away-going disgruntled no.2 would do. And stick it to Seb, costing him the title.
And there would be many cheers from the F1 communities including this one.

He probably would. He wouldn't have to worry about his Red Bull contract.

Meatwad · Post by **Meatwad** » 08 Aug 2013, 00:07

FullMetalJack wrote:He probably would. He wouldn't have to worry about his Red Bull contract.

It might not be that simple. I assume that there is a clause in Webber's contract that requires him to help Vettel in certain circumstances. If this was true (I'm pretty sure about it) and Webber intentionally kept Vettel from winning the title, RBR would be completely entitled to sue him (remember what Barrichello said about Austria 2002 and Ferrari "threatening" him). The consequences could be very serious, especially if Webber took Vettel out of the race. I think he (as well as the other F1 drivers) is smart enough to avoid such situations.

Then there is also another possibility. If Webber just kept Vettel behind in spite of team orders (no crash), they could tamper with his car immediately after the race, getting him disqualified. :lol:

Post by **mario** » 08 Aug 2013, 05:57

DonTirri wrote:
roblomas52 wrote:
mediocre wrote:If it was the last race of 2013 and Webber was leading ahead of Vettel with Vettel having to win to secure the title and Webber playing no role in the title chase — what would happen?

Webber would let Vettel past just coming on to the pit straight although knowing Mark…

He'd probably do what any away-going disgruntled no.2 would do. And stick it to Seb, costing him the title.
And there would be many cheers from the F1 communities including this one.

We saw that, in 2012, Webber did attack Vettel at the start of the Brazilian GP despite the fact that, as he mentioned earlier this year in the wake of the Malaysian GP, he was under instruction from the team not to interfere with Vettel's race. Given that both he and his team mate have overridden orders from the team on multiple occasions, there is a strong chance that Webber would ignore any orders from the team and refuse to yield his position.

CoopsII · Post by **CoopsII** » 08 Aug 2013, 07:39

mario wrote:Given that both he and his team mate have overridden orders from the team on multiple occasions, there is a strong chance that Webber would ignore any orders from the team and refuse to yield his position.

We just need him to now consistently get into a position where that could be a possibility.