What If?

Salamander · Post by **Salamander** » 16 Sep 2013, 09:04

good_Ralf wrote:
Salamander wrote:
Bleu wrote:I think around 70 points. With team being a bit short of money, he would be not renewed and he would not race in F1 in 2011. Next year Ferrari dumps Massa and takes him. He would score about 160 points in 2012 and around 100 now. Kimi would still return and replace him for 2014.

Anthony Davidson would have taken Virgin seat for 2010, but he quits after lack of progress in 2011. They keep d'Ambrosio and place Pic alongside him in 2012.

NOPE. If Ferrari had replaced Massa with a Renault driver, obviously they would've picked Kubica. You know, the one they tried to replace him with in 2009?

Unless Kubica still had that rally crash. Then Ferrari would need to have chosen another driver.

Ferrari would not have let him go rallying in first place.

Shizuka · Post by **Shizuka** » 16 Sep 2013, 10:05

Wizzie wrote:What if Esteban Guerrieri had managed to raise the $8 million necessary to secure second Virgin seat for the 2011 season?

No Hungaroring pitlane spin

FullMetalJack · Post by **FullMetalJack** » 16 Sep 2013, 11:37

Shizuka wrote:
Wizzie wrote:What if Esteban Guerrieri had managed to raise the $8 million necessary to secure second Virgin seat for the 2011 season?

No Hungaroring pitlane spin

It's not just the spin, you've got to look at the bigger picture here.

By that I mean, no Ambrosia on The F1 Slate.

apple2009 · Post by **apple2009** » 16 Sep 2013, 21:52

Wizzie wrote:What if Esteban Guerrieri had managed to raise the $8 million necessary to secure second Virgin seat for the 2011 season?

The race in Mar del Plata would have gone ahead.

umatbru [aka nonameyet] · Post by **umatbru [aka nonameyet]** » 19 Sep 2013, 21:17

How about...

What if oriol servia went to F1?

Gerudo Dragon · Post by **Gerudo Dragon** » 21 Sep 2013, 22:10

umatbru [aka nonameyet] wrote:What if oriol servia went to F1?

He was average in CART, so probably average in F1.

What the Hawaiian Super Prix wasn't cancelled?

dr-baker · Post by **dr-baker** » 26 Sep 2013, 15:09

I was reading some old Autosports from the 1990s recently (that I bought on eBay and collected from Scotland!) and came across the following news article in the 5th August 1993 issue:

Two questions from this:

1. Specualte on what may have happened if some teams had indeed run 3rd cars towards the end of 1993.
2. What if points down to 10th was introduced as early at 1994? How would this have affected the futures of Simtek, Pacific and Forti? (I doubt it would have affected MasterCard Lola?)

Onxy Wrecked · Post by **Onxy Wrecked** » 26 Sep 2013, 18:31

dr-baker wrote:I was reading some old Autosports from the 1990s recently (that I bought on eBay and collected from Scotland!) and came across the following news article in the 5th August 1993 issue:

Two questions from this:

1. Specualte on what may have happened if some teams had indeed run 3rd cars towards the end of 1993.
2. What if points down to 10th was introduced as early at 1994? How would this have affected the futures of Simtek, Pacific and Forti? (I doubt it would have affected MasterCard Lola?)

Simtek, Pacific, and Forti might have been able to gather enough money to continue to compete. It might have made MasterCard Lola delay it's entry if they couldn't get it to be reliable enough to finish 10th.

dr-baker · Post by **dr-baker** » 27 Sep 2013, 11:00

Onxy Wrecked wrote:
dr-baker wrote:I was reading some old Autosports from the 1990s recently (that I bought on eBay and collected from Scotland!) and came across the following news article in the 5th August 1993 issue:

Two questions from this:

1. Specualte on what may have happened if some teams had indeed run 3rd cars towards the end of 1993.
2. What if points down to 10th was introduced as early at 1994? How would this have affected the futures of Simtek, Pacific and Forti? (I doubt it would have affected MasterCard Lola?)

Simtek, Pacific, and Forti might have been able to gather enough money to continue to compete. It might have made MasterCard Lola delay it's entry if they couldn't get it to be reliable enough to finish 10th.

But Lola's rapid entry was all about pressure from MasterCard to enter for 1997, rather than reliability, wasn't it? Might there have been more pressure to enter sooner if points were seen to be easier to obtain?

watka · Post by **watka** » 27 Sep 2013, 23:03

What if Adrian Newey had designed a race winning Red Bull as early as 2007?

Alextrax52 · Post by **Alextrax52** » 28 Sep 2013, 10:18

watka wrote:What if Adrian Newey had designed a race winning Red Bull as early as 2007?

Mark Webber would have more than 9 wins in his career and David Coulthard would have been higher than 16th in 2008

good_Ralf · Post by **good_Ralf** » 28 Sep 2013, 18:26

Freeze-O-Kimi wrote:
watka wrote:What if Adrian Newey had designed a race winning Red Bull as early as 2007?

Mark Webber would have more than 9 wins in his career and David Coulthard would have been higher than 16th in 2008

Adding to that, Webber might well have been ahead of Hamilton in Japan in 2007 and Vettel would have hit Hamilton instead, changing the fate of the title.

Spain 2007
Europe 2007
Japan 2007

Monaco 2008
Canada 2008
Italy 2008
Singapore 2008

Circuits where the Red Bull could have won in my opinion.

Onxy Wrecked · Post by **Onxy Wrecked** » 28 Sep 2013, 21:12

dr-baker wrote:But Lola's rapid entry was all about pressure from MasterCard to enter for 1997, rather than reliability, wasn't it? Might there have been more pressure to enter sooner if points were seen to be easier to obtain?

It would seem that way, but if the 107% rule remained, the MasterCard Lola team wouldn't even make it to the race's start.

dr-baker · Post by **dr-baker** » 28 Sep 2013, 21:33

Onxy Wrecked wrote:
dr-baker wrote:But Lola's rapid entry was all about pressure from MasterCard to enter for 1997, rather than reliability, wasn't it? Might there have been more pressure to enter sooner if points were seen to be easier to obtain?

It would seem that way, but if the 107% rule remained, the MasterCard Lola team wouldn't even make it to the race's start.

There may have been more pressure from MasterCard to enter sooner because of their perception that it would be easier. But I certainly don't think the 107% rule would have been any easier given the constraints.

Alextrax52 · Post by **Alextrax52** » 30 Sep 2013, 16:45

Another what for the WRC: Having just seen Top 10 out of control I ask what if Francois Duval accepted the multi-year deal with Ford he was offered rather than accepting the single year at Citroen?

Shizuka · Post by **Shizuka** » 30 Sep 2013, 18:52

Grönholm would still have kicked his ass, when he joined in 2006.

good_Ralf · Post by **good_Ralf** » 02 Oct 2013, 22:01

What if Montoya fell out with McLaren mid-way through 2005 instead? Would Wurz or de la Rosa or both taken the seat and would either have won races?

CoopsII · Post by **CoopsII** » 03 Oct 2013, 11:40

good_Ralf wrote:What if Montoya fell out with McLaren mid-way through 2005 instead? Would Wurz or de la Rosa or both taken the seat and would either have won races?

Or maybe Paffett?

:lol:

Only joking, they'd never let him race.

CaptainGetz12 · Post by **CaptainGetz12** » 08 Oct 2013, 03:58

I've got one for a ways back:

What if Jochen Rindt didn't die in the 1970 Italian Grand Prix?

He already won at Monaco and the 24 Hours of Le Mans and according to Wikipedia he said he would retire from F1 either in '70 or '71, so do you think that he would've went to the Indianapolis 500 and try to complete the Triple Crown?

umatbru [aka nonameyet] · Post by **umatbru [aka nonameyet]** » 08 Oct 2013, 07:02

What if Holden, mitsubishi, suzuki, audi or SEAT entered formula 1?

watka · Post by **watka** » 08 Oct 2013, 16:39

umatbru [aka nonameyet] wrote:What if Holden, mitsubishi, suzuki, audi or SEAT entered formula 1?

Holden - LOL!
Mitsubishi - Well Toyota didn't succeed so I don't see why they would.
Suzuki - As above, but surely they'd have a smaller budget.
Audi/SEAT - One and the same as they're both owned by Volkswagen. Could make an impact if they were willing to be based in Britain. Otherwise better off as an engine supplier.

Post by **Londoner** » 08 Oct 2013, 16:48

watka wrote:
umatbru [aka nonameyet] wrote:What if Holden, mitsubishi, suzuki, audi or SEAT entered formula 1?

SEAT - One and the same as they're both owned by Volkswagen. Could make an impact if they were willing to be based in Britain. Otherwise better off as an engine supplier.

The SEATs in the BTCC were originally run by RML Group as a factory entry, so theoretically if SEAT had maintained their links with RML, it may have been possible. But I doubt RML are big enough or financially secure enough to enter F1 anyway.

johnnyCarwash · Post by **johnnyCarwash** » 08 Oct 2013, 18:28

What if Scott Dixon got the F1 drive at Williams in 2005?

watka wrote:
umatbru [aka nonameyet] wrote:What if Holden, mitsubishi, suzuki, audi or SEAT entered formula 1?

Holden - LOL

Holden is owned by GM who also own Chevrolet, so if we do get a GM motor, I expect to see Chevrolet enter F1, though in the light of recent events they might try to bring GMC to F1 :lol:

Post by **mario** » 08 Oct 2013, 20:33

CaptainGetz12 wrote:I've got one for a ways back:

What if Jochen Rindt didn't die in the 1970 Italian Grand Prix?

He already won at Monaco and the 24 Hours of Le Mans and according to Wikipedia he said he would retire from F1 either in '70 or '71, so do you think that he would've went to the Indianapolis 500 and try to complete the Triple Crown?

He had already tried his luck in the Indy 500 in 1967 and 1968, but in both events he qualified in the lower half of the field and retired from both events with mechanical problems. I suspect that he might have decided that it was not worth trying again if he'd already tried twice and not been especially competitive - if he did retire from F1 for good in either 1970 or 1971, then I think that he probably would have turned to sports car racing instead given his previous forays at Le Mans.

watka wrote:
umatbru [aka nonameyet] wrote:What if Holden, mitsubishi, suzuki, audi or SEAT entered formula 1?

Holden - LOL!
Mitsubishi - Well Toyota didn't succeed so I don't see why they would.
Suzuki - As above, but surely they'd have a smaller budget.
Audi/SEAT - One and the same as they're both owned by Volkswagen. Could make an impact if they were willing to be based in Britain. Otherwise better off as an engine supplier.

VW Group has only ever shown interest in F1 as an engine supplier, not as a full works manufacturer - and even then it'd only be if they were offered favourable terms. As for Holden - i.e. GM - that is very unlikely as there does not seem to be any real commercial incentive for them, and I doubt that Suzuki would have the resources or the desire to enter F1 either (again, I don't think that they'd see the logic in that decision). Mitsubishi could perhaps find the resources - the wider group as a whole could probably help finance the initiative - but, once again, I don't think that they'd see it as commercially attractive given that their rivals - Honda and Toyota - did not succeed despite their resources and more recent knowledge of the sport.

Gerudo Dragon · Post by **Gerudo Dragon** » 08 Oct 2013, 21:38

What if Dean Stoneman didn't get cancer?

roblo97 · Post by **roblo97** » 08 Oct 2013, 21:41

Dark77 wrote:What if Dean Stoneman didn't get cancer?

Might have had the Force India drive instead of Glass Of Milk

Onxy Wrecked · Post by **Onxy Wrecked** » 08 Oct 2013, 21:47

roblomas52 wrote:
Dark77 wrote:What if Dean Stoneman didn't get cancer?

Might have had the Force India drive instead of Glass Of Milk

May have yielded more than just that. Might be speaking of him as a champion in a few years time if that hadn't happened.

Gerudo Dragon · Post by **Gerudo Dragon** » 09 Oct 2013, 12:58

What if Dragon Racing entered F1?

AxelP800 · Post by **AxelP800** » 09 Oct 2013, 13:07

Dark77 wrote:What if Dragon Racing entered F1?

Jean Alesi would extent his winless races. And the DNQ king is possible

CaptainGetz12 · Post by **CaptainGetz12** » 10 Oct 2013, 01:45

mario wrote:
CaptainGetz12 wrote:I've got one for a ways back:

What if Jochen Rindt didn't die in the 1970 Italian Grand Prix?

He already won at Monaco and the 24 Hours of Le Mans and according to Wikipedia he said he would retire from F1 either in '70 or '71, so do you think that he would've went to the Indianapolis 500 and try to complete the Triple Crown?

He had already tried his luck in the Indy 500 in 1967 and 1968, but in both events he qualified in the lower half of the field and retired from both events with mechanical problems. I suspect that he might have decided that it was not worth trying again if he'd already tried twice and not been especially competitive - if he did retire from F1 for good in either 1970 or 1971, then I think that he probably would have turned to sports car racing instead given his previous forays at Le Mans.[quote]

Well Rindt's championship F1 season wasent until 2 years after his 2 Indy 500 attempts and 5 years after his Le Mans 24hr victory. I would have thought that the chance of matching Graham Hill's legacy would be rekindled and that he would give Indy another shot...

Chrisdude · Post by **Chrisdude** » 12 Oct 2013, 20:43

Hope this one hasn't been done yet. What if Mika Salo had gone to Ferrari for 1996 instead of Irvine?

I was reading an old F1 Racing mag the other day and Salo claims Ferrari wanted him alongside Schumacher, but Ken Tyrrell wouldn't release him. Imagine the potential Mika vs Mika battles!

good_Ralf · Post by **good_Ralf** » 17 Oct 2013, 18:36

Chrisdude wrote:Hope this one hasn't been done yet. What if Mika Salo had gone to Ferrari for 1996 instead of Irvine?

I was reading an old F1 Racing mag the other day and Salo claims Ferrari wanted him alongside Schumacher, but Ken Tyrrell wouldn't release him. Imagine the potential Mika vs Mika battles!

Points certainly, but given how hard it is to judge how good (or should it be, how awful?) that Ferrari was, I'm not too sure about if Salo would have got on the podium in 1996. In many ways, I think he'd be a no.2 to Schumi all the way, just like Irvine. That means he would not win that many races, or none at all.

WaffleCat · Post by **WaffleCat** » 17 Oct 2013, 23:29

What if Jeep entered F1?

Oh wait,it already did......

TomWazzleshaw · Post by **TomWazzleshaw** » 17 Oct 2013, 23:36

What if Malcolm Wilson had signed Sebastien Loeb to M-Sport for 2006 after his test at the end of 2005?

Liquid · Post by **Liquid** » 24 Oct 2013, 13:42

I'm sure most of us have read Eddie Jordan's autobiography. My all time favourite F1 What If is in there...

What if, as EJ claimed was not a million miles away from happening, Ayrton Senna did become driver/part owner in Jordan Grand Prix? For those who have not read it, Eddie Jordan claims that he approached Ayrton mid-1993 whilst his McLaren talks were stalling and offered him a 50% share in the team and position of lead driver with near total control over development, testing and so on.

With a 50% share in the team and complete creative control over the direction of the team, this would have been the perfect way for Ayrton to transition from driver to team principal. Especially because he was in or entering the twilight of his career.

If only.

good_Ralf · Post by **good_Ralf** » 24 Oct 2013, 13:55

Try this thread.

Post by **kevinbotz** » 24 Oct 2013, 14:20

Liquid wrote:I'm sure most of us have read Eddie Jordan's autobiography. My all time favourite F1 What If is in there...

What if, as EJ claimed was not a million miles away from happening, Ayrton Senna did become driver/part owner in Jordan Grand Prix? For those who have not read it, Eddie Jordan claims that he approached Ayrton mid-1993 whilst his McLaren talks were stalling and offered him a 50% share in the team and position of lead driver with near total control over development, testing and so on.

With a 50% share in the team and complete creative control over the direction of the team, this would have been the perfect way for Ayrton to transition from driver to team principal. Especially because he was in or entering the twilight of his career.

If only.

Maybe it's because Senna is so indelibly imprinted into my mind as a driver's driver, but I'm struggling to envisage how Senna would perform in such a role. Jordan would likely receive a considerable boost in its finances owing solely to Senna's stature and reputation, possibly enabling it to develop more competent machinery. In addition, if the testimonies of Hakkinen and Coulthard are to be trusted, Senna was an extremely fastidious developmental driver, which, along with the highly-rated Gary Anderson, would have likely consolidated and bolstered Jordan's design direction.

On the other hand, it's impossible to definitively gauge what influence, constructive or destructive, Senna's mercurial disposition would have had on the team dynamic at Jordan. It is highly probable that Senna would immediately levy significant pressure against Jordan's management and technical structure to produce a competitive car, without regard for the state of its finances. Moreover, I'm skeptical that Senna, accustomed to all the trappings of a large team, would acclimate well (at least initially) to Jordan's far more modest structure, possibly leading to an alienation of the team; then again, Senna's obsessive dedication and his imposing personality could well have inspired reverence and loyalty instead.

Liquid · Post by **Liquid** » 24 Oct 2013, 14:39

But he and Rubens at the same team?

My heart breaks that this was never so.

Gerudo Dragon · Post by **Gerudo Dragon** » 26 Oct 2013, 21:12

What if EJ Viso drove for Spyker in 2007?

Onxy Wrecked · Post by **Onxy Wrecked** » 26 Oct 2013, 22:25

Dark77 wrote:What if EJ Viso drove for Spyker in 2007?

Look for a reject profile on Mr. Viso in that event. He's barely mediocre in IndyCar.