Unpopular F1 opinions

Cynon · Post by **Cynon** » 13 Oct 2013, 20:12

mario wrote:It's a bit like Berger in 1991 when Senna gifted him victory in the Japanese GP - it looked like a kind gesture to outside observers, but IIRC Berger himself actually felt that it was somewhat demeaning and insulting (i.e. that Senna was telling him that he could only win if he allowed him to win). I think that Webber would probably have a similar sense of pride - he'd probably find it preferable to be beaten by Vettel, but having given him a hard time and having done his utmost himself to win, rather than being gifted a victory by the team as a parting reward.

Given Webber's attitude about the Malaysian Grand Prix this year, when he was pretty mad Vettel beat him by disregarding team orders... I'd argue that Webber doesn't really have that sense of pride.

good_Ralf · Post by **good_Ralf** » 14 Oct 2013, 20:38

Despite winning a race, Benetton's 1997 wasn't as good as 1996.

CoopsII · Post by **CoopsII** » 15 Oct 2013, 06:46

good_Ralf wrote:Despite winning a race, Benetton's 1997 wasn't as good as 1996.

Wow, contentious issue there

I would also argue that Toyota in 2003 were better than in 2004!

Onxy Wrecked · Post by **Onxy Wrecked** » 15 Oct 2013, 09:02

Faustus wrote:Formula 1 drivers know a lot about how a car works.
Formula 1 official statements make for very interesting reading.
Every Formula 1 car on the grid is illegal in some way.

But some are so poor in quality that one has to question if they're breaking the rules at all outside of maybe the crash tests.

TomWazzleshaw · Post by **TomWazzleshaw** » 15 Oct 2013, 09:07

Onxy Wrecked wrote:
Faustus wrote:Every Formula 1 car on the grid is illegal in some way.

But some are so poor in quality that one has to question if they're breaking the rules at all outside of maybe the crash tests.

Well, they're not road-legal, for example

Onxy Wrecked · Post by **Onxy Wrecked** » 15 Oct 2013, 11:34

Wizzie wrote:
Onxy Wrecked wrote:
Faustus wrote:Every Formula 1 car on the grid is illegal in some way.

But some are so poor in quality that one has to question if they're breaking the rules at all outside of maybe the crash tests.

Well, they're not road-legal, for example

Doesn't the FIA have crash test standards for F1 cars?

TomWazzleshaw · Post by **TomWazzleshaw** » 15 Oct 2013, 11:47

Onxy Wrecked wrote:
Wizzie wrote:
Onxy Wrecked wrote:But some are so poor in quality that one has to question if they're breaking the rules at all outside of maybe the crash tests.

Well, they're not road-legal, for example

Doesn't the FIA have crash test standards for F1 cars?

I believe they do. I'm also pretty sure they use the same crash test standards for the GP2 cars.

Bleu · Post by **Bleu** » 15 Oct 2013, 15:42

good_Ralf wrote:Despite winning a race, Benetton's 1997 wasn't as good as 1996.

I agree. 1997 they were horrible on slow circuits.

Alextrax52 · Post by **Alextrax52** » 15 Oct 2013, 15:47

Bleu wrote:
good_Ralf wrote:Despite winning a race, Benetton's 1997 wasn't as good as 1996.

I agree. 1997 they were horrible on slow circuits.

They would have been 4th in the championship if Hakkinen wasn't disqualified from 3rd in Belgium (They would have both been on 67 points but Mclaren would be ahead with 3 wins to Benettons 1)

CoopsII · Post by **CoopsII** » 15 Oct 2013, 16:12

If Vettel dominates in 2014 I am changing my name, leaving the planet and never, ever visiting this forum :lol:

Bleu · Post by **Bleu** » 15 Oct 2013, 17:51

Freeze-O-Kimi wrote:
Bleu wrote:
good_Ralf wrote:Despite winning a race, Benetton's 1997 wasn't as good as 1996.

I agree. 1997 they were horrible on slow circuits.

They would have been 4th in the championship if Hakkinen wasn't disqualified from 3rd in Belgium (They would have both been on 67 points but Mclaren would be ahead with 3 wins to Benettons 1)

Actually wouldn't have needed tie-breaker, as Benetton gained one point (Berger 6th) due to Häkkinen DQ.

takagi_for_the_win · Post by **takagi_for_the_win** » 15 Oct 2013, 19:07

CoopsII wrote:If Vettel dominates in 2014 I am changing my name, leaving the planet and never, ever visiting this forum

I'll say my goodbyes in advance then

Nessafox · Post by **Nessafox** » 15 Oct 2013, 21:47

takagi_for_the_win wrote:
CoopsII wrote:If Vettel dominates in 2014 I am changing my name, leaving the planet and never, ever visiting this forum

I'll say my goodbyes in advance then

I'll prematurely welcome CoopsIII to the forum

pasta_maldonado · Post by **pasta_maldonado** » 16 Oct 2013, 18:04

The Renault R24 is one of the best looking cars in the last 20 years

Alextrax52 · Post by **Alextrax52** » 16 Oct 2013, 18:08

pasta_maldonado wrote:The Renault R24 is one of the best looking cars in the last 20 years

Agreed. I miss Mild Seven and Telefonica backing but i wouldn't like to fall onto the side where the drivers name is on the sidepod

takagi_for_the_win · Post by **takagi_for_the_win** » 16 Oct 2013, 18:45

pasta_maldonado wrote:The Renault R24 is one of the best looking cars in the last 20 years

Any one of the Telefonica/Mild Seven Reanult's could really be classed as top-looking cars

The R25 was better though

go_Rubens · Post by **go_Rubens** » 17 Oct 2013, 02:00

Freeze-O-Kimi wrote:Agreed. I miss Mild Seven and Telefonica backing but i wouldn't like to fall onto the side where the drivers name is on the sidepod

I'm fine with it as long as it is a reject team like HRT:

CoopsII · Post by **CoopsII** » 17 Oct 2013, 06:39

This wrote:
takagi_for_the_win wrote:
CoopsII wrote:If Vettel dominates in 2014 I am changing my name, leaving the planet and never, ever visiting this forum

I'll say my goodbyes in advance then

I'll prematurely welcome CoopsIII to the forum

I think I'll relaunch myself as CoopsIV as it sounds cooler!

good_Ralf · Post by **good_Ralf** » 17 Oct 2013, 11:02

pasta_maldonado wrote:The Renault R24 is one of the best looking cars in the last 20 years

Sorry pasta, but the R23 is better looking in my opinion, mainly because it had a lower and neater looking nose, with no i sponsor at the tip. The R23 also had a weirder engine noise as well, especially when you downshifted.

The R25 also isn't as pretty as the R23 mainly because of the nose-cone as well. It's too tiny. The R25 engine sounds like an electric guitar/violin.

watka · Post by **watka** » 17 Oct 2013, 12:15

Nelson Piquet Jr could have been as good as Grosjean is now if he was given more time, and a slightly better car.

Salamander · Post by **Salamander** » 17 Oct 2013, 12:33

watka wrote:Nelson Piquet Jr could have been as good as Grosjean is now if he was given more time, and a slightly better car.

He had a race winning car from Singapore onwards in 2008, and only ran well at Fuji. Not nearly as impressive as Grosjean was over a similar period in 2008.

watka · Post by **watka** » 17 Oct 2013, 15:08

Salamander wrote:
watka wrote:Nelson Piquet Jr could have been as good as Grosjean is now if he was given more time, and a slightly better car.

He had a race winning car from Singapore onwards in 2008, and only ran well at Fuji. Not nearly as impressive as Grosjean was over a similar period in 2008.

I don't actually believe what I wrote (just theoretical) but what I do think is that Grosjean was lucky to get a second chance at Team Enstone. What could Piquet Jr had he been in Grosjean's position?

takagi_for_the_win · Post by **takagi_for_the_win** » 17 Oct 2013, 17:19

watka wrote:
Salamander wrote:
watka wrote:Nelson Piquet Jr could have been as good as Grosjean is now if he was given more time, and a slightly better car.

He had a race winning car from Singapore onwards in 2008, and only ran well at Fuji. Not nearly as impressive as Grosjean was over a similar period in 2008.

I don't actually believe what I wrote (just theoretical) but what I do think is that Grosjean was lucky to get a second chance at Team Enstone. What could Piquet Jr had he been in Grosjean's position?

Crash.

UncreativeUsername37 · Post by **UncreativeUsername37** » 17 Oct 2013, 17:22

takagi_for_the_win wrote:
watka wrote:I don't actually believe what I wrote (just theoretical) but what I do think is that Grosjean was lucky to get a second chance at Team Enstone. What could Piquet Jr had he been in Grosjean's position?

Crash.

So same as Grosjean then.

Onxy Wrecked · Post by **Onxy Wrecked** » 17 Oct 2013, 17:24

UgncreativeUsergname wrote:
takagi_for_the_win wrote:
watka wrote:I don't actually believe what I wrote (just theoretical) but what I do think is that Grosjean was lucky to get a second chance at Team Enstone. What could Piquet Jr had he been in Grosjean's position?

Crash.

So same as Grosjean then.

A poor man's talent version of Grosjean. Might offer less money than Total and Grosjean as well.

Salamander · Post by **Salamander** » 17 Oct 2013, 17:36

UgncreativeUsergname wrote:
takagi_for_the_win wrote:
watka wrote:I don't actually believe what I wrote (just theoretical) but what I do think is that Grosjean was lucky to get a second chance at Team Enstone. What could Piquet Jr had he been in Grosjean's position?

Crash.

So same as Grosjean then.

No, Grosjean finished sometimes.

Wallio · Post by **Wallio** » 19 Oct 2013, 15:12

BMW-Sauber's "Twin Towers" arrangement in France a few years back was not only legal, but brilliant.

Also, the "flip-ups everywhere" pre-2009 cars just looked better. Every piece served one purpose, make car go fast! And they looked like they were moving, even when parked.

Post by **mario** » 19 Oct 2013, 17:52

Wallio wrote:BMW-Sauber's "Twin Towers" arrangement in France a few years back was not only legal, but brilliant.

Also, the "flip-ups everywhere" pre-2009 cars just looked better. Every piece served one purpose, make car go fast! And they looked like they were moving, even when parked.

I assume that this refers to the F1.06's pylons on the nosecone - they were banned immediately after that race on the grounds that they caused a significant impediment to the drivers forward vision.

roblo97 · Post by **roblo97** » 19 Oct 2013, 21:39

Wallio wrote:BMW-Sauber's "Twin Towers" arrangement in France a few years back was not only legal, but brilliant.

Also, the "flip-ups everywhere" pre-2009 cars just looked better. Every piece served one purpose, make car go fast! And they looked like they were moving, even when parked.

In my opinion, the Ferrari 2008 was the best of the bunch.

Liquid · Post by **Liquid** » 23 Oct 2013, 18:32

Ferrari should have dropped Massa in 2012 and got Barrichello back as a veteran tailgunner.

go_Rubens · Post by **go_Rubens** » 24 Oct 2013, 01:48

Liquid wrote:Ferrari should have dropped Massa in 2012 and got Barrichello back as a veteran tailgunner.

That's if Rubens was willing to drive an F1 car again. But yeah. Go Rubens!

Liquid · Post by **Liquid** » 24 Oct 2013, 08:50

Ha, I'm a big Rubens fan myself. There is some method in my madness though;

What Ferrari need, or needed, was someone who could take points away from Alonso's rivals and not just flounder around in 11th place. Barrichello, at the venerable age of 63, would know and probably be happy being the number two at this stage and I feel he still had enough pace in him to do a good job for the Scuderia.

But it's by the by now. Massa has had his customary late season flourish but he's still been dropped. But dropped two years too late, in my opinion.

---

Also, love them both, but Berger > Alesi.

TomWazzleshaw · Post by **TomWazzleshaw** » 24 Oct 2013, 08:56

Liquid wrote:Ha, I'm a big Rubens fan myself. There is some method in my madness though;

What Ferrari need, or needed, was someone who could take points away from Alonso's rivals and not just flounder around in 11th place. Barrichello, at the venerable age of 63, would know and probably be happy being the number two at this stage and I feel he still had enough pace in him to do a good job for the Scuderia.

If he was still driving around in F1 by 63, I'd find that pretty damn impressive :lol:

good_Ralf · Post by **good_Ralf** » 24 Oct 2013, 13:16

Wizzie wrote:If he was still driving around in F1 by 63, I'd find that pretty damn impressive

Damon Hill on Top Gear IIRC wrote:If you really wanted to you could keep going until you're 60.

Liquid · Post by **Liquid** » 24 Oct 2013, 13:33

Damon Nil is of course the master on knowing when to quit.

Wallio · Post by **Wallio** » 24 Oct 2013, 15:00

Faustus wrote:Every Formula 1 car on the grid is illegal in some way.

Every RACE CAR PERIOD is illegal in some way. I'll give you a personal example: I went to race at a big national event about two years. I'd never been at the track, much less this race, before. Line up for tech early, and go through inspections third out of the 400+ cars entered. The gruff, older tech guy looks the car over, checks the big stuff (harness, roll cage, fire suppression etc.) then has me fire the car to see if the neutral safety and main shutoff switches work. All that done, he quips, "Well jeeze son, what am I supposed to yell at you for?" I reply that i'm sure if he look hard enough, he can find something (I didn't know how to responded, and our rule book is quite detailed, listing what kind of valve stems you can run, or even what type of metal the bolts holding down the seats can be) He answers "I'm sure I could, hell I can guarantee you you I can find something wrong with every single car here, not just you, but I'd need 2 days and ten more guys to do it."

And that was at a drag race. I'm sure the FIA is really no different. Just look professional, make sure your paperwork is in order, say yes sir, no sir, and most importantly have a SAFE car, and tech can be rather easy.

UncreativeUsername37 · Post by **UncreativeUsername37** » 24 Oct 2013, 18:14

Wallio wrote:
Faustus wrote:Every Formula 1 car on the grid is illegal in some way.

Every RACE CAR PERIOD is illegal in some way.

For instance, they're all street illegal.

Post by **Nuppiz** » 24 Oct 2013, 18:16

UgncreativeUsergname wrote:
Wallio wrote:
Faustus wrote:Every Formula 1 car on the grid is illegal in some way.

Every RACE CAR PERIOD is illegal in some way.

For instance, they're all street illegal.

Aren't most rally cars road-registered though?

UncreativeUsername37 · Post by **UncreativeUsername37** » 24 Oct 2013, 18:36

Nuppiz wrote:
UgncreativeUsergname wrote:
Wallio wrote:Every RACE CAR PERIOD is illegal in some way.

For instance, they're all street illegal.

Aren't most rally cars road-registered though?

Uh... yes. :oops:

Onxy Wrecked · Post by **Onxy Wrecked** » 24 Oct 2013, 18:42

Nuppiz wrote:
UgncreativeUsergname wrote:
Wallio wrote:Every RACE CAR PERIOD is illegal in some way.

For instance, they're all street illegal.

Aren't most rally cars road-registered though?

And NASCARs in theory could be if one were to replace the exhaust pipes due to the bumpers although why would anyone want to drive a car with one seat that gets 13 miles per gallon at highway speeds is beyond me.