Reject of the Race: Brazil, 2013

Alextrax52 · Post by **Alextrax52** » 24 Nov 2013, 20:21

Ataxia wrote:Bro, do you even math? Seriously? Is it THAT hard?

I've realized it and corrected it

pasta_maldonado · Post by **pasta_maldonado** » 24 Nov 2013, 20:22

Normally I would embark on a misguided attempt to be humorous, but this....this...

Freezy, are you drunk? I hope you are, because I have to give it to you, that is the worst logic I have ever seen :lol:

Alextrax52 · Post by **Alextrax52** » 24 Nov 2013, 20:25

pasta_maldonado wrote:Normally I would embark on a misguided attempt to be humorous, but this....this...

Freezy, are you drunk? I hope you are, because I have to give it to you, that is the worst logic I have ever seen

I'm not drunk WTSNBM is a good phrase

Post by **Ataxia** » 24 Nov 2013, 20:53

Freeze-O-Kimi wrote:
pasta_maldonado wrote:Normally I would embark on a misguided attempt to be humorous, but this....this...

Freezy, are you drunk? I hope you are, because I have to give it to you, that is the worst logic I have ever seen

I'm not drunk WTSNBM is a good phrase

Right, I'm gonna break it up for you, because I don't think you're getting it.

Rain: 4 letters. WTSNBM: 6 letters.
HWNSNBM's name: 16 letters. HWNSNBM: 7 letters.

It's not that hard. Come on now.

Shizuka · Post by **Shizuka** » 24 Nov 2013, 21:05

That logic, man :lol:

My nominations:
- Lotus: seriously? First Grosjean's engine decides to wave goodbye to its era with a blow, and then Kovalainen doesn't score a single point. That's a low key to finish the season on.
- Maldonado: what is this guy doing in recent races?
- Vergne's strategy: just a reminder: he was the first in the pits at the end of lap 10... Toro Rosso needs to sort this out for next year. This played a key part in him not revelling in the conditions he was supposed to be good at. (Maybe he risked a wet-suitable setup?)

Not nominating the Bottas-Hamilton incident.

Bleu · Post by **Bleu** » 24 Nov 2013, 21:22

Bottas was actually faster at that point than Hamilton. He had been lapped by Lewis when he was in the pits, then on new tyres he was faster.

My vote goes to Lotus. Their point streak came to the end with a old-style engine failure and dismal showing by Kovalainen.

Post by **mario** » 24 Nov 2013, 21:33

Whilst the Bottas-Hamilton incident is up there, to be honest I feel that Vergne's strategy was worse - Vergne managed to lose seven places between qualifying and the end of the race, beating only Maldonado (who also had a pretty terrible race weekend himself, being consistently outperformed by his team mate).

James1978 · Post by **James1978** » 24 Nov 2013, 21:43

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/111601

Turns out Bottas did actually think he was racing Hamilton - seriously?!

watka · Post by **watka** » 24 Nov 2013, 21:48

I'm also one for saying that the Hamilton-Bottas clash was a racing incident. There was no strict wheel movements by Hamilton at all, he should have left a little more space but he certainly didn't turn in on him. It was unfortunate more than anything else.

If you want an example of someone turning in, look at Maldonado's spin. Ridiculous that he kept turning in to a left handed corner when the next one was right handed and he would have had the line and been able to block off Vergne. Clear aggression in that move, I think.

Reject of the race for me is Heikki Kovalainen. He's finished behind Bianchi and Pic in the championship. He had arguably the 2nd best car on the grid for crying out loud.

Salamander · Post by **Salamander** » 24 Nov 2013, 21:55

watka wrote:I'm also one for saying that the Hamilton-Bottas clash was a racing incident. There was no strict wheel movements by Hamilton at all, he should have left a little more space but he certainly didn't turn in on him. It was unfortunate more than anything else.

No, it's a case of Hamilton being incredibly careless and not paying attention to what was going on around him.

TheBigJ · Post by **TheBigJ** » 24 Nov 2013, 23:12

Ataxia wrote:Rain. You can't censor me.

You can't censor Zsolt Baumgartner either.

dr-baker · Post by **dr-baker** » 24 Nov 2013, 23:25

TheBigJ wrote:
Ataxia wrote:Rain. You can't censor me.

You can't censor Ferenc Szisz's successor either.

No, but you can expect it to rain papayas soon for that...

Cynon · Post by **Cynon** » 24 Nov 2013, 23:28

dr-baker wrote:
TheBigJ wrote:
Ataxia wrote:Rain. You can't censor me.

You can't censor Ferenc Szisz's successor either.

No, but you can expect it to rain papayas soon for that...

At least you didn't mention HIS name, otherwise this might happen:

watka · Post by **watka** » 24 Nov 2013, 23:41

Salamander wrote:
watka wrote:I'm also one for saying that the Hamilton-Bottas clash was a racing incident. There was no strict wheel movements by Hamilton at all, he should have left a little more space but he certainly didn't turn in on him. It was unfortunate more than anything else.

No, it's a case of Hamilton being incredibly careless and not paying attention to what was going on around him.

At the same time, Bottas didn't exactly use all of the track available to him. Plus, I'm not quite sure why Bottas was trying to unlap himself. I didn't see any evidence that Hamilton was holding him up.

apple2009 · Post by **apple2009** » 24 Nov 2013, 23:46

TheBigJ wrote:
Ataxia wrote:Rain. You can't censor me.

You can't censor [Censored] either.

Salamander · Post by **Salamander** » 25 Nov 2013, 00:13

watka wrote:
Salamander wrote:
watka wrote:I'm also one for saying that the Hamilton-Bottas clash was a racing incident. There was no strict wheel movements by Hamilton at all, he should have left a little more space but he certainly didn't turn in on him. It was unfortunate more than anything else.

No, it's a case of Hamilton being incredibly careless and not paying attention to what was going on around him.

At the same time, Bottas didn't exactly use all of the track available to him. Plus, I'm not quite sure why Bottas was trying to unlap himself. I didn't see any evidence that Hamilton was holding him up.

So? Bottas was faster there, he got the DRS and went past him. He was not the only driver to do that, several other cars wound up unlapping themselves from Vettel due to having fresh tyres. While unlapping yourself from a leading car is not the most ideal situation, Bottas handled it absolutely fine - he kept to his line and did not act aggressively to Hamilton. Instead, it was Hamilton who decided to let his car drift across when he had plenty of space regardless - any way you look at it, the only cause of the accident was Hamilton moving over. It wasn't a deliberate movement, but he is the one in control of his car, and it was patently obvious in the replays that it was his car moving towards Bottas'. Therefore, it can only be his fault.

wsrgo · Post by **wsrgo** » 25 Nov 2013, 02:28

My ROTR goes to Lotus. Grosjean's connecting rod failure was the first for the team since....I dunno. And Kovalainen drove like someone who was purposefully trying to rule himself out of a 2014 drive. Was it really THAT important to go for him? I know hindsight's a good thing, but still...
Dishonourable mentions:
Pasta Maldanada: An afternoon of crapoid and then that collision with Vergne.
JEV: Oh dear....
Chilton: Tra la la la

Sublime_FA11C · Post by **Sublime_FA11C** » 25 Nov 2013, 08:05

The worst moment of the race was the endless series of replays in the first few laps. There's plenty of boring time during the race when nothing is happening to show that. During that time cars were battleing for position left and right. Really pissed me off. I know why they do it, but still it was foolish to interrupt an interesting race for replays.

Hamilton doesn't really deserve ROTR in my opinion, he did not expect Bottas in a Williams (a lap down no less) to brake late and attack and didn't see him. Bottas himself admitted he didn't know he was a lap behind Lewis, and Hamilton admitted it would have been wiser to let the guy past since he was on much fresher rubber. But mainly i think it's because Hamilton has no experience being attacked by a Williams and had no idea it would happen. Yeah, he should still be more aware and stuff but Bottas was really late on the brakes to pull alongside, something that we haven't seen him do, and Lewis assumed he could take the line. He was mainly thinking about his gap to Alonso and had probably forgotten Bottas even existed.

So yes, on the one hand you have a semi-awake Hamilton, but he was semi-awake to a backmarker unlapping himself with a pretty adventurous move. That's not something that happens pretty much ever in F1 so it's way to harsh on Hamilton to blame him for this. Failing to react to something an F1 driver regularly faces would have been diffrent. Bear in mind that backmarkers are allowed to and regularly try to use DRS when following faster cars, and the assumption that Bottas was grabbing some slipstream while intending to stay behind is not unreasonable. Especially considering he pulled along side at the last moment when both cars were in the braking zone.

You know how most drivers in their right mind give Maldonado plenty of room when he's feeling feisty, well Vergne and Sutil may be slower on the trigger but still... I think in the future more drivers will have to watch out for Bottas late braking them.

CoopsII · Post by **CoopsII** » 25 Nov 2013, 08:13

Bottas - Yes, you're entitled to unlap yourself but a bit of extra caution wouldnt go amiss, it doesnt happen that often so the lead driver wont always expect it.
Hamilton - Use your mirrors and dont presume that guy behind you has no pace just because he's a backmarker.

Essentially, I blame them both for trashing their chances of a decent result.

Shizuka · Post by **Shizuka** » 25 Nov 2013, 09:51

mario wrote:Whilst the Bottas-Hamilton incident is up there, to be honest I feel that Vergne's strategy was worse - Vergne managed to lose seven places between qualifying and the end of the race, beating only Maldonado (who also had a pretty terrible race weekend himself, being consistently outperformed by his team mate).

Whoever was responsible for strategy at STR needs to be fired - JEV was the first to pit in lap 10, and Ricciardo pitted in lap 14.

Backmarker · Post by **Backmarker** » 25 Nov 2013, 10:20

go_Rubens wrote:It makes me wonder what Valsecchi would have done.

As much/as little as Kovalainen achieved, but we would have another reject driver.

SeedStriker · Post by **SeedStriker** » 25 Nov 2013, 12:07

While all the fire has been aimed at Hamilton for the incident with Bottas, it was more a racing incident.

1)RoGro's Renault's Engine: Why did Renault didn't give that engine to Red Bull (specially in Vettel's car) will be the talk of the week

2)Steward's Double Standards: Felipinho was penalized and Vettel don't?

Dishonorable mentions to Charlie Whitting (no rain run in Q3, because... why exactly?), the weather (why did you do this to us...?), and Valteri Bottas (from hero to zero in one single week)

The Thanks that this Hell Finally Ended Award will go to Williams for a season to forget

Sublime_FA11C · Post by **Sublime_FA11C** » 25 Nov 2013, 20:31

Forgive my nitpicking but Massa was warned 3 times and the others once or twice. Massa also went more agressively over the painted crosshatch than anyone else. Drivers were briefed that they must stay off that part of the track even though it's possible to drive over it safely. It was illegal to go there, Massa went there 3 times, hence penatly.

Vettel did it twice, but the 2nd time he did it was on the last lap so there was no chance of getting a drive through then. You could also argue that when the winner is crossing the finish line for the final time, they often weave of get close to the pitwall or similar things. There was really nothing to do in Vettel's case except rob him of a victory.

Next year a new penalty system is itroduced where reprimands work like points on a driver's license and they wont be reset at year's end (they may expire after 12 or 15 months, not sure). So if this were 2014 Vettel would have copped a point that would stay with him for next season. As it is, he gets away with it.

As much as i would have liked Massa on a podium to give the fans more buzz, i have to say it's his own damn fault for not obeying what Rob Smedley was telling him NOT to do over the radio. Not once but twice...

golic_2004 · Post by **golic_2004** » 30 Nov 2013, 18:06

Vettel for not letting Webber take a win on his final race, opting to take a 9th consecutive victory

Alextrax52 · Post by **Alextrax52** » 30 Nov 2013, 18:23

golic_2004 wrote:Vettel for not letting Webber take a win on his final race, opting to take a 9th consecutive victory

We've already discussed this. Webber would rather take a deserved 2nd rather than a gifted 1st. It would be just as hollow as Berger's win in Japan 1991 which the Austrian refuses to accept as a race he won.

Alextrax52 · Post by **Alextrax52** » 03 Dec 2013, 22:31

Excuse the double post but I'm giving Enoch a nomination for (almost) forgetting to hand this award out. But I'll be fair this season has sucked some memory out of some people

takagi_for_the_win · Post by **takagi_for_the_win** » 03 Dec 2013, 22:37

Freeze-O-Kimi wrote:Excuse the double post but I'm giving Enoch a nomination for (almost) forgetting to hand this award out. But I'll be fair this season has sucked some memory out of some people

And the list of things that Freezy has nominated for ROTR/ROTY now includes literally every single thing on the planet; past, present or future.

good_Ralf · Post by **good_Ralf** » 03 Dec 2013, 22:38

takagi_for_the_win wrote:
Freeze-O-Kimi wrote:Excuse the double post but I'm giving Enoch a nomination for (almost) forgetting to hand this award out. But I'll be fair this season has sucked some memory out of some people

And the list of things that Freezy has nominated for ROTR/ROTY now includes literally every single thing on the planet; past, present or future.

Thinking about it, I don't think he has nominated either of us yet!

At least he made a good nomination for the award in Belgium.

Post by **Londoner** » 03 Dec 2013, 22:38

Freeze-O-Kimi wrote:Excuse the double post but I'm giving Enoch a nomination for (almost) forgetting to hand this award out. But I'll be fair this season has sucked some memory out of some people

Post by **Ataxia** » 03 Dec 2013, 22:41

Freeze-O-Kimi wrote:Excuse the double post but I'm giving Enoch a nomination for (almost) forgetting to hand this award out. But I'll be fair this season has sucked some memory out of some people

Why not exert a little bit of patience? You might not, but other people DO have lives to deal with outside of this forum. Perhaps Enoch's been busy; perhaps he's saving the award for a special occasion, I don't know.

Just calm down. I know that you love awarding "Reject of the..." awards to various things, hell, you'd even give some slightly dead chrysanthemums "Reject of the Chelsea Flower Show", but come on now.

tzerof1 · Post by **tzerof1** » 03 Dec 2013, 23:21

Freeze-O-Kimi wrote:Excuse the double post but I'm giving Enoch a nomination for (almost) forgetting to hand this award out.

BLASPHEMY! Only Jamie or Enoch can nominate Enoch! Do you wish to be assaulted by papayas?

Anyhow, ROTR for me goes to Romain Grosjean's engine. To my recollection that's the first Renault engine failure since Sebastian Vettel's hat-trick of failures at Valencia 2009(feel free to correct me though). And it robbed him of a potential great result that he absolutely deserved, given his pretty good performance in qualifying, and his improved form over the season as a whole.

FullMetalJack · Post by **FullMetalJack** » 03 Dec 2013, 23:33

Freeze-O-Kimi wrote:Excuse the double post but I'm giving Enoch a nomination for (almost) forgetting to hand this award out. But I'll be fair this season has sucked some memory out of some people

Jesus, even FMecha's been patient so far. We all have lives outside this site, that includes Jamie and Enoch.

go_Rubens · Post by **go_Rubens** » 03 Dec 2013, 23:40

tzerof1 wrote:To my recollection that's the first Renault engine failure since Sebastian Vettel's hat-trick of failures at Valencia 2009(feel free to correct me though)

At the 2010 Korean GP, Vettel suffered an engine failure while leading with 10 laps left.

About Enoch not giving out ROTR yet, he's actually a very busy man. He can only do things once in a while. I'm not surprised the promised Patrick Friesacher profile hasn't been released yet.

Post by **DemocalypseNow** » 03 Dec 2013, 23:43

I award Reject of the Race to Risotto ai Funghi. I understand there are no rules to this game anymore, and we can just name whatever we like. I find risotto ai funghi to be particularly disgusting, so I decided it was worthy of ROTR. Because I have that freedom. Apparently.

Look at that disgusting pile of garbage! Look at it! How could anything possibly beat it for ROTR?!

eytl · Post by **eytl** » 04 Dec 2013, 02:06

As a matter of fact I have been extremely busy over the last two weeks, and a bit on the sick side as well ...

What I am ambitiously planning (but probably have little hope of achieving) is to post the Patrick Friesacher profile (which I'm still writing), a comment on Vettel's achievements this year, and a Webber tribute in the next few weeks ... something of a Red Bull triple-special. And the season review as well before the end of the year if possible.

But, on immediate matters, this may be an unpopular decision but I've decided to give the Brazilian ROTR to Felipe Massa. Whilst I accept that a drive-through penalty for that pit entry transgression may have been a tad harsh, and I think the inconsistent patrolling of track limits in the last few races has been pretty poor, at the end of the day he had been given several warnings and should have been well aware after the pre-race notice given by Charlie Whiting. It's not the first time Felipe simply hasn't heeded a warning and allowed himself more margin - his last ROTR, India 2011, when he broke his suspension twice on the extra "baguette" kerbing in from the first row of kerbs, was on the same basis. Here, other drivers were also warned during the race and they made sure they didn't re-offend. In needlessly inflicting the drive-through on himself it also meant he missed out on a farewell Ferrari podium in Brazil given the deal Alonso had struck with him.

My thought on the Bottas-Hamilton incident was that it was all a bit silly and needless from all sides, but not blameworthy enough to award either of them ROTR. My question is why Lewis was wandering around in the middle of the track in the first place? Did he ever see Valtteri in his mirrors? If so, in the braking zone did he notice the Williams was no longer there (which, I'll admit, is easier said than done, I'll bet there's a lot more to think about in a braking zone)? If so, did he wonder where the Williams was? Did he realise he was leaning to the right? And then, from Bottas' perspective, he's trying to unlap himself against a frontrunner, something which Lewis obviously won't be expecting, so you'd have thought that Valtteri ought to have taken a bit more care. In the end, too much doubt from all sides and hence benefit of the doubt means no ROTR for this incident.

dr-baker · Post by **dr-baker** » 04 Dec 2013, 15:32

eytl wrote:As a matter of fact I have been extremely busy over the last two weeks, and a bit on the sick side as well ...

Stramala wrote:

Unfortunate pair of posts, there.

Shame that the mushrooms look like maggots, because I really like mushrooms in my risotto...

Alextrax52 · Post by **Alextrax52** » 04 Dec 2013, 17:38

Come on guys I was only worrying if this would be the first race since 2003 where the award hasn't been given. No need to act like I've brought December 21 to the forum.

Salamander · Post by **Salamander** » 04 Dec 2013, 17:53

Freeze-O-Kimi wrote:Come on guys I was only worrying if this would be the first race since 2003 where the award hasn't been given.

If you were genuinely worried then I think you need to get some perspective. There are more important things to worry about.

Post by **Nuppiz** » 04 Dec 2013, 18:04

Salamander wrote:
Freeze-O-Kimi wrote:Come on guys I was only worrying if this would be the first race since 2003 where the award hasn't been given.

If you were genuinely worried then I think you need to get some perspective. There are more important things to worry about.

Indeed. It was only a mere one and a half weeks since the race, and we've had much longer waits in the past. "Worrying" about the ROTR decision missing completely just makes you seem very impatient.

wsrgo · Post by **wsrgo** » 05 Dec 2013, 03:38

I must say I agree with Enoch's decision. Massa transgressed repeatedly, and what was stranger still was his 'excited utterances' after the penalty was handed to him. Hopefully, Williams will teach him to pay more attention in the drivers' briefings.
Also, I'm hugely excited at the prospective raft of articles Enoch has planned to bring out before the end of 2013. I do worry I am being spoilt! But no, seriously, patience is a virtue, and I can say that I used to be like Freeze-O-Kimi before, but my advice to him would be to just take it cool. People become busy at times, and yes, Enoch's punctuality on another occasions do make hopes higher every weekend, but yeah, if he's late, there's probably a reason, no way he's forgotten anything so important.
Looking forward to the articles!