2014 Silly Season Thread

Post by **Londoner** » 24 Dec 2013, 00:26

Double points idea continues to crumble.

good_Ralf · Post by **good_Ralf** » 24 Dec 2013, 00:39

East Londoner wrote:Double points idea continues to crumble.

Good. I wonder, which of these rules is worse? The scrapped 2009 rule where whoever wins the most races wins the title or the double points rule? In my mind it is the former, because a title is decided by who is the most consistent and quick driver, as in he scores podiums and points finishes as well as wins.

go_Rubens · Post by **go_Rubens** » 24 Dec 2013, 04:32

East Londoner wrote:Double points idea continues to crumble.

And Bernie's take:

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/111941

So, he thinks either 3 double points races or none. What has gotten into his mind. At least he says "or none."

Besides, I think that the rule will be scrapped. Bernie should know that with seemingly most of the fans, teams, drivers, and Montezuma himself opposed of the rule that it is not a good idea. And since the FOM is biased towards anything the top teams would want, like Ferrari, I don't think they'll continue with the rule anyway considering what Montezuma, Vettel, Red Bull, and many others have said about the rule. And talk about Eddie Irvine, his take on the whole thing was unrestricted, which is completely deserving criticism of the new rule in my eyes. So what I'm saying here is, if key figures believe it is a bad idea, even if Mr. Irvine is not exactly a key figure in this mess, then FOM and the FIA will not go ahead with the new rule. It may get them the money they crave a bit too much (or perfectly within human standards, amd you'll know this if you live in central Pennsylvania, like me), but it's stupid on the racing part and the whole philosophy of the sport and the direction of the sport that viewing figures may drop and they lose money anyway. They may want money, but it's better to be safe than sorry.

WaffleCat · Post by **WaffleCat** » 24 Dec 2013, 09:44

At the rate Bernie's going, all races will be double points. :lol:

Or even better, do it Predicament Predictions style, where the teams select their double points race.

Yes,that was a subtle reminder for Wizzie to count PP points already.

dr-baker · Post by **dr-baker** » 24 Dec 2013, 11:27

WaffleCat wrote:Yes,that was a subtle reminder for Wizzie to count PP points already.

Oh dear, more impatience on the F1 Rejects forums. :roll:

Folk have lives and will do stuff in their own time, when they're ready...

WaffleCat wrote:At the rate Bernie's going, all races will be double points.

Well, they are all already worth 2.5 times what they were 5 years ago!

WaffleCat wrote:Or even better, do it Predicament Predictions style, where the teams select their double points race.

It's A Knockout! Jeux Sans Frontieres!

Collieafc · Post by **Collieafc** » 24 Dec 2013, 12:26

dr-baker wrote:
WaffleCat wrote:Yes,that was a subtle reminder for Wizzie to count PP points already.

Oh dear, more impatience on the F1 Rejects forums. Folk have lives and will do stuff in their own time, when they're ready...

Brings shades of:

Ataxia wrote:Just calm down. I know that you love awarding "Reject of the..." awards to various things, hell, you'd even give some slightly dead chrysanthemums "Reject of the Chelsea Flower Show", but come on now.

Thats a good point with the circuit organisers though, never thought about that end of things but I can totally empathise with them.

Post by **mario** » 24 Dec 2013, 12:54

go_Rubens wrote:
East Londoner wrote:Double points idea continues to crumble.

And Bernie's take:

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/111941

So, he thinks either 3 double points races or none. What has gotten into his mind. At least he says "or none."

Besides, I think that the rule will be scrapped. Bernie should know that with seemingly most of the fans, teams, drivers, and Montezuma himself opposed of the rule that it is not a good idea. And since the FOM is biased towards anything the top teams would want, like Ferrari, I don't think they'll continue with the rule anyway considering what Montezuma, Vettel, Red Bull, and many others have said about the rule. And talk about Eddie Irvine, his take on the whole thing was unrestricted, which is completely deserving criticism of the new rule in my eyes. So what I'm saying here is, if key figures believe it is a bad idea, even if Mr. Irvine is not exactly a key figure in this mess, then FOM and the FIA will not go ahead with the new rule. It may get them the money they crave a bit too much (or perfectly within human standards, amd you'll know this if you live in central Pennsylvania, like me), but it's stupid on the racing part and the whole philosophy of the sport and the direction of the sport that viewing figures may drop and they lose money anyway. They may want money, but it's better to be safe than sorry.

James Allen has also reported that a number of circuit owners are complaining to Bernie about their races being "devalued" by the double points proposal, so that only adds to the opposition to the proposal that has been coming from all quarters.

As for the question of viewing figures, the measure seems to be more in response to the fact that the viewing figures have been in decline this year compared to 2012, which in itself marked a decline on the figures from 2011 (it seems that viewing figures went up after the relatively tight 2010 season, but dropped after Vettel's dominant 2011 season and have continued falling since then). Moreover, it seems that FOM is worried that the viewing figures are falling most rapidly in the Asian market, a region where they've been trying to establish F1 amongst a casual fan base (it is probably with them in mind, rather than the more traditional European market, that FOM's latest initiatives have been aimed at).

Shizuka · Post by **Shizuka** » 24 Dec 2013, 14:41

dr-baker wrote:It's A Knockout! Jeux Sans Frontieres!

Oh God

that reminded me of this priceless moment.

watka · Post by **watka** » 24 Dec 2013, 21:59

Shizuka wrote:
dr-baker wrote:It's A Knockout! Jeux Sans Frontieres!

Oh God that reminded me of this priceless moment.

What a shame that such a brilliant commentator is also a despicable pedophile.

TomWazzleshaw · Post by **TomWazzleshaw** » 24 Dec 2013, 22:56

dr-baker wrote:
WaffleCat wrote:Yes,that was a subtle reminder for Wizzie to count PP points already.

Oh dear, more impatience on the F1 Rejects forums. Folk have lives and will do stuff in their own time, when they're ready...

Nah, he's right. I should have sorted it out ages ago, but I simply can't be stuffed

Basetornado · Post by **Basetornado** » 25 Dec 2013, 08:28

Why don't they just make every race double points?

dr-baker · Post by **dr-baker** » 25 Dec 2013, 21:20

Basetornado wrote:Why don't they just make every race double points?

Because they made every race be worth two-AND-A-HALF times the points instead a few years ago - 25 points instead of 10 points for a win...

watka · Post by **watka** » 25 Dec 2013, 23:46

I think they should just give out points for effort.

Salamander · Post by **Salamander** » 26 Dec 2013, 00:03

watka wrote:I think they should just give out points for effort.

Hmm... that could make an interesting alt championship...

UncreativeUsername37 · Post by **UncreativeUsername37** » 26 Dec 2013, 00:17

Salamander wrote:
watka wrote:I think they should just give out points for effort.

Hmm... that could make an interesting alt championship...

Up until Maldonado's debut.

AdrianSutil · Post by **AdrianSutil** » 26 Dec 2013, 10:38

If theyre going to keep this double-point idea, it has to be Monaco. And only Monaco. It's a glamour-race as we all know and the other circuit organisers can't exactly say its 'devaluing' their race either. It's Monaco, your race is already devalued.

Marco · Post by **Marco** » 26 Dec 2013, 10:47

Speedweek reports, Susie W. may be driving in some friday sessions 2014.

http://www.speedweek.com/formel1/news/4 ... ahrer.html (German text)

dr-baker · Post by **dr-baker** » 26 Dec 2013, 11:20

Marco wrote:Speedweek reports, Susie W. may be driving in some friday sessions 2014.

http://www.speedweek.com/formel1/news/4 ... ahrer.html (German text)

Of course I'm going to be the first to reply, with a

. It'll make up for the unfortunate but necessary cancellation of the Race of Champions.

AdrianSutil wrote:If theyre going to keep this double-point idea, it has to be Monaco. And only Monaco. It's a glamour-race as we all know and the other circuit organisers can't exactly say its 'devaluing' their race either. It's Monaco, your race is already devalued.

That was my first thought when I read that news for the first time.

Post by **mario** » 26 Dec 2013, 12:03

AdrianSutil wrote:If theyre going to keep this double-point idea, it has to be Monaco. And only Monaco. It's a glamour-race as we all know and the other circuit organisers can't exactly say its 'devaluing' their race either. It's Monaco, your race is already devalued.

I suppose that it would be slightly more palatable if it went to one of the races with a high historical value or valuable image, like Monaco, in much the same way that the WEC gives the 24 Hours of Le Mans a higher weighting due to its historical value and the extended length of the race.

On the flip side, Monaco is already in a privileged position though - I might be mistaken, but traditionally FOM has waived its usual race fees for Monaco and, I believe, still does to this day (or, at the very least, only pays a nominal fee).

Basetornado · Post by **Basetornado** » 26 Dec 2013, 13:10

mario wrote:
AdrianSutil wrote:If theyre going to keep this double-point idea, it has to be Monaco. And only Monaco. It's a glamour-race as we all know and the other circuit organisers can't exactly say its 'devaluing' their race either. It's Monaco, your race is already devalued.

I suppose that it would be slightly more palatable if it went to one of the races with a high historical value or valuable image, like Monaco, in much the same way that the WEC gives the 24 Hours of Le Mans a higher weighting due to its historical value and the extended length of the race.

On the flip side, Monaco is already in a privileged position though - I might be mistaken, but traditionally FOM has waived its usual race fees for Monaco and, I believe, still does to this day (or, at the very least, only pays a nominal fee).

Monaco doesnt pay race fees and gets to Sell its own Trackside sponsorship, bit like how Ferrari get treated differently because theyre the public face of F1. They just had a most powerful people in F1, thing in F1 Racing Mag and Prince Albert was pretty high and the reason was because he knows that he has leverage over Bernie in that if F1 loses Monaco, it loses the glamour it has left.

go_Rubens · Post by **go_Rubens** » 26 Dec 2013, 14:21

AdrianSutil wrote:If theyre going to keep this double-point idea, it has to be Monaco. And only Monaco. It's a glamour-race as we all know and the other circuit organisers can't exactly say its 'devaluing' their race either. It's Monaco, your race is already devalued.

I agree with this point. It makes sense in the fact that it's already more prestigious that the others, and the fact that the WEC has done the same thing with the 24 Heures du Mans.

Post by **mario** » 26 Dec 2013, 14:38

Basetornado wrote:
mario wrote:
AdrianSutil wrote:If theyre going to keep this double-point idea, it has to be Monaco. And only Monaco. It's a glamour-race as we all know and the other circuit organisers can't exactly say its 'devaluing' their race either. It's Monaco, your race is already devalued.

I suppose that it would be slightly more palatable if it went to one of the races with a high historical value or valuable image, like Monaco, in much the same way that the WEC gives the 24 Hours of Le Mans a higher weighting due to its historical value and the extended length of the race.

On the flip side, Monaco is already in a privileged position though - I might be mistaken, but traditionally FOM has waived its usual race fees for Monaco and, I believe, still does to this day (or, at the very least, only pays a nominal fee).

Monaco doesnt pay race fees and gets to Sell its own Trackside sponsorship, bit like how Ferrari get treated differently because theyre the public face of F1. They just had a most powerful people in F1, thing in F1 Racing Mag and Prince Albert was pretty high and the reason was because he knows that he has leverage over Bernie in that if F1 loses Monaco, it loses the glamour it has left.

I suspected that Monaco didn't pay any race fees, but couldn't be entirely sure given that there had been a row between FOM and the Automobile Club de Monaco over whether or not they should pay a fee for the Monaco GP after FOM started coming under pressure from some of the other promoters over their favourable deals.

go_Rubens wrote:
AdrianSutil wrote:If theyre going to keep this double-point idea, it has to be Monaco. And only Monaco. It's a glamour-race as we all know and the other circuit organisers can't exactly say its 'devaluing' their race either. It's Monaco, your race is already devalued.

I agree with this point. It makes sense in the fact that it's already more prestigious that the others, and the fact that the WEC has done the same thing with the 24 Heures du Mans.

It could also be pointed out that the 24 Hours of Le Mans is a tougher race too - the other races in the WEC are just six hours long, so not only is Le Mans more prestigious, there is also a logic in giving a greater reward to match the greater effort that went into that event.

Basetornado · Post by **Basetornado** » 26 Dec 2013, 15:01

Yeah 24 Hours has no relevance because its not like theres one F1 race that lasts 4 times as long as every other race.
Double Points at Monaco or not at all. I can see how theyre trying to make Abu Dhabi another Monaco, but its like trying to copy the Mona Lisa. Youre never going to get close.

Aerospeed · Post by **Aerospeed** » 26 Dec 2013, 15:54

Basetornado wrote:Yeah 24 Hours has no relevance because its not like theres one F1 race that lasts 4 times as long as every other race.
Double Points at Monaco or not at all. I can see how theyre trying to make Abu Dhabi another Monaco, but its like trying to copy the Mona Lisa. Youre never going to get close.

Something like this...

Basetornado · Post by **Basetornado** » 26 Dec 2013, 19:57

Aerospeed wrote:
Basetornado wrote:Yeah 24 Hours has no relevance because its not like theres one F1 race that lasts 4 times as long as every other race.
Double Points at Monaco or not at all. I can see how theyre trying to make Abu Dhabi another Monaco, but its like trying to copy the Mona Lisa. Youre never going to get close.

Something like this...

Haha Exactly

go_Rubens · Post by **go_Rubens** » 27 Dec 2013, 06:10

Basetornado wrote:Yeah 24 Hours has no relevance because its not like theres one F1 race that lasts 4 times as long as every other race.
Double Points at Monaco or not at all. I can see how theyre trying to make Abu Dhabi another Monaco, but its like trying to copy the Mona Lisa. Youre never going to get close.

Ah, this is also a good point to make. In my eyes, there is no way in which I see the Abu Dhabi race as a race of glamor, nor much of a challenge. The miles of runoff are used mostly for gaining advantages, and the fact that the circuit is really not exciting. All in all, if you like looking at a world class racing facility, it's for you. But if you want more, watch a race somewhere else.

Backmarker · Post by **Backmarker** » 27 Dec 2013, 10:44

I don't think double points should be awarded for the shortest race on the calendar. I don't feel any of the races are particularly gruelling for the drivers. Maybe they could have a race around the Nordschleife and award double points for that.

Basetornado · Post by **Basetornado** » 27 Dec 2013, 12:02

Theyd need a lot more then just double points to race at the full nordschleife.
If your looking for a gruelling race, Monaco is it. I mean it has the glamour as well as the ridicilousness of driving around a tiny city with essentially no run off.

andrew2209 · Post by **andrew2209** » 27 Dec 2013, 18:11

Off the topic of double points, Lewis Hamilton is apparently going to take #44 next season.

Sublime_FA11C · Post by **Sublime_FA11C** » 28 Dec 2013, 00:20

Rather than make the last race award double points, why not make the last race truly special? Since there's so many diffrent and silly proposals with regard to rule changes, use one race in the season as a kind of Silly System race. Test all absurd and dumb rules in one race, and if they don't work, drop them and move on.

Here's a stupid example:
- Make all pitstalls open to any driver from any team on a first-come, first-serve basis.
- Drivers must NOT pit in their own team's box.
- Max number of pitstalls is 20.
- All pitcrews work for their teams as normal during the sessions but during the race, they must service any car that comes in.
- Pitcrews will fit any compound they like (Prime or Option), during wet racing they will fit the appropriate tyre (Wet, Inter, or any dry compound if the track is drying)
- The "both coumpounds used in race" rule is suspended for the Silly GP

That would work wonders wouldn't it? Spice up the show, no prob. All pitcrews will have to do their best since their own drivers depend on others doing their best. Yes, ofc i'm not being serious, but dumber ideas have been thrown out there in recent times. Medals system, double points, whatever else... But if you're gonna go dumb, go dumb all the way. Throw all dumb ideas out into one race, make it an even clusterf$@* for all.

Random starting order? Why not.
Random allocation of tyre compounds for each team during the GP? Perfect!
All odd numbered cars to start on the dirty side of the grid? Just keeps making more sense...
Point multipliers awarded after race. Numbers drawn from a top hat? Exactly what the show needs!

It's all rubbish, but fun. Now rather than waste so much time debating, all these junk ideas could be tested in practise during one GP of the year. And hopefully after one such GP we would stop getting so many junk ideas. Kill stupidity with stupidity i say, let it happen.

Nessafox · Post by **Nessafox** » 28 Dec 2013, 00:47

If a race organiser doesn't pay enough to Bernie's liking, make it count for negative points instead of positve!

Basetornado · Post by **Basetornado** » 28 Dec 2013, 09:53

How bout we make one race with all the teams choosing the best drivers and they dont worry about sponsorship etc.
Proberly too silly.

IceG · Post by **IceG** » 28 Dec 2013, 11:03

Though this double points system is madness, yet there is method to it.

Once a team has established dominance in a season, the other teams start looking to the next season and stop developing the car for this one. With more points from races towards the end there is greater chance of catching up so continuing development in the season is a worthwhile option. Result, there is still a chance of something changing towards the end of the season so dominant teams keep developing their car. And they don't have the luxury of switching to next year's car early which potentially perpetuates the dominance.

Double points is IMHO not the solution to this problem (or any other problem) but I'm not sure what is.

BTW, lets not forget we have half points for shortened races...

Basetornado · Post by **Basetornado** » 28 Dec 2013, 11:06

IceG wrote:BTW, lets not forget we have half points for shortened races...

Yes but like we said earlier, theres no race thats twice as long as any other race. Its not like the WEC where Le Mans is worth more because its 4 times as long.

dr-baker · Post by **dr-baker** » 28 Dec 2013, 11:45

Sublime_FA11C wrote:Rather than make the last race award double points, why not make the last race truly special? Since there's so many diffrent and silly proposals with regard to rule changes, use one race in the season as a kind of Silly System race. Test all absurd and dumb rules in one race, and if they don't work, drop them and move on.

Here's a stupid example:
- Make all pitstalls open to any driver from any team on a first-come, first-serve basis.
- Drivers must NOT pit in their own team's box.
- Max number of pitstalls is 20.
- All pitcrews work for their teams as normal during the sessions but during the race, they must service any car that comes in.
- Pitcrews will fit any compound they like (Prime or Option), during wet racing they will fit the appropriate tyre (Wet, Inter, or any dry compound if the track is drying)
- The "both coumpounds used in race" rule is suspended for the Silly GP

That would work wonders wouldn't it? Spice up the show, no prob. All pitcrews will have to do their best since their own drivers depend on others doing their best. Yes, ofc i'm not being serious, but dumber ideas have been thrown out there in recent times. Medals system, double points, whatever else... But if you're gonna go dumb, go dumb all the way. Throw all dumb ideas out into one race, make it an even clusterf$@* for all.

Random starting order? Why not.
Random allocation of tyre compounds for each team during the GP? Perfect!
All odd numbered cars to start on the dirty side of the grid? Just keeps making more sense...
Point multipliers awarded after race. Numbers drawn from a top hat? Exactly what the show needs!

It's all rubbish, but fun. Now rather than waste so much time debating, all these junk ideas could be tested in practise during one GP of the year. And hopefully after one such GP we would stop getting so many junk ideas. Kill stupidity with stupidity i say, let it happen.

Why not return to a series of non-championship races in the off-season to try these wild, wacky ideas out? AND that may give Bernie a chance to make more money, and give the teams a chance to do more testing in a racing environment! But of course that would make too much sense...

Post by **mario** » 28 Dec 2013, 16:37

dr-baker wrote:Why not return to a series of non-championship races in the off-season to try these wild, wacky ideas out? AND that may give Bernie a chance to make more money, and give the teams a chance to do more testing in a racing environment! But of course that would make too much sense...

I suspect that Bernie would prefer to keep non championship races off the calendar since he wouldn't be able to charge as high a fee for those races (since their prestige would be much lower), not to mention the teams objecting about an already overcrowded calendar being made even longer.

As an aside, since we are now committed to the idea of permanent numbers, there are rumours going around in the press of the numbers that have now been chosen by around half of the drivers. It seems, perhaps a touch predictably, that most of them have gone for the number that they first used in karting (or, at the very least, that seems to be the motive behind Alonso's and Massa's choices). The list is given as follows:

VET=11,14,33
ALO=14
HAM=44
RAI=7
ROS=6,5,9
MAS=19
PER=11
VER=25,21,27
BOT= 77,11,17
MAL=3,18
BIA=7,27,77
KVY: 26

The amusing twist is that the Spanish press seem to think that Vettel has put No. 14 as his first choice, not his second choice - if that is true (the German press seem to think Vettel went for No. 11 as his first choice), then the one driver who could have screwed Alonso over for number choice would appear to have just done so (drivers get their first choices only if a driver ranked above them hasn't selected that number before them).

James1978 · Post by **James1978** » 28 Dec 2013, 16:52

Well Checo is screwed then.

UncreativeUsername37 · Post by **UncreativeUsername37** » 28 Dec 2013, 17:10

Along with the drivers I like anyway, I will cheer for anyone who tries to pick 13.

Backmarker · Post by **Backmarker** » 28 Dec 2013, 18:44

mario wrote:VET=11,14,33
ALO=14
HAM=44
RAI=7
ROS=6,5,9
MAS=19
PER=11
VER=25,21,27
BOT= 77,11,17
MAL=3,18
BIA=7,27,77
KVY: 26

I wonder what Perez is going to choose, assuming he doesn't get 11.

MrMasaTasa · Post by **MrMasaTasa** » 28 Dec 2013, 22:10

UgncreativeUsergname wrote:Along with the drivers I like anyway, I will cheer for anyone who tries to pick 13.

+1