2014 Pre-season and In-season Testing Thread

DanielPT · Post by **DanielPT** » 29 Jan 2014, 14:55

Not wanting to post the business below in the launch thread nor the silly season thread, I think it is time that this thread comes to life.

So it seems that the Renault-Powered teams are struggling early in the pre-season test. Red Bull even ended the proceedings today. While still early, this could set them back compared to other teams. And can only be good news for the championship it seems. As for the times, they are pretty much irrelevant right now...

VirtuaMcPolygon · Post by **VirtuaMcPolygon** » 29 Jan 2014, 17:27

I've already taken my early punt at Paddy Power on a McLaren to win the WC. Well a fiver on them.

I would like to know more about their new 'special suspension flaps'. Sounds like great idea if it works. I really do think Renault have problems already. Doesn't look good if none of the Renault teams can manage less than 10 laps. Yes i know it's early days… even so…

Post by **mario** » 29 Jan 2014, 18:12

VirtuaMcPolygon wrote:I've already taken my early punt at Paddy Power on a McLaren to win the WC. Well a fiver on them.

I would like to know more about their new 'special suspension flaps'. Sounds like great idea if it works. I really do think Renault have problems already. Doesn't look good if none of the Renault teams can manage less than 10 laps. Yes i know it's early days… even so…

I've only taken a brief look, but it would appear that McLaren have taken a very creative and extreme interpretation of the regulations surrounding the aero shrouds of suspension members to design shrouds that function in a similar way to the beam wings that used to go on earlier cars. It's thought to be legal, but definitely getting close to the limit on what might be considered acceptable by the FIA.

As for the problems that Renault have had these days, it certainly is quite worrying for them that the Renault powered teams have struggled very badly - Mercedes have hit the ground running and racked up a considerable amount of engine mileage in total (I think that the four Mercedes powered teams have racked up nearly 900km of test mileage), and Ferrari are not far behind (about 300km, which is not bad considering that only Ferrari and Sauber have been racking up test mileage). The Renault powered teams seem to have racked up about 50km between themselves amid talk that the current batch of Renault engines have defective crankshafts that need replacing - it is still early days, but right now Mercedes do seem to have the advantage given they've pretty much turned up and been able to get right down to testing with fewer issues than their rivals.

AndreaModa · Post by **AndreaModa** » 29 Jan 2014, 18:16

Beat me to it Mario! Your explanation is far better than mine anyway!

Some were suggesting on Twitter earlier that McLaren have taken an alternative view on the requirements for the wishbones which don't state in which direction their defined shape (which needs to be something akin to a teardrop I believe) has to be. So instead of the traditional horizontal, McLaren have gone for a vertical layout instead. Looking at that image from Mario though suggests it could well be something else.

Post by **mario** » 29 Jan 2014, 18:39

AndreaModa wrote:Beat me to it Mario! Your explanation is far better than mine anyway!

Some were suggesting on Twitter earlier that McLaren have taken an alternative view on the requirements for the wishbones which don't state in which direction their defined shape (which needs to be something akin to a teardrop I believe) has to be. So instead of the traditional horizontal, McLaren have gone for a vertical layout instead. Looking at that image from Mario though suggests it could well be something else.

It's hard to tell exactly - whilst it's created quite a bit of interest, it is hard to get a decent shot - but some are suggesting that it is more of a triangular shape than the traditional neutral aerofoil section. We will have to wait and see how this develops though: I would imagine that there will be a number of teams making requests for "clarification" of the regulations (official protests cannot be brought until the Australian GP) and lobbying the FIA not to accept this design.

Shizuka · Post by **Shizuka** » 29 Jan 2014, 18:40

mario wrote:the current batch of Renault engines have defective crankshafts that need replacing

And we thought Renault would be fine from the get go, but instead, we see Mercedes having the least problems, with Ferrari faring well than expected...

Aerospeed · Post by **Aerospeed** » 29 Jan 2014, 19:50

This is a good video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=keLcrTw7FOI

Engines sound fantastic!

roblo97 · Post by **roblo97** » 29 Jan 2014, 20:26

Shizuka wrote:
mario wrote:the current batch of Renault engines have defective crankshafts that need replacing

And we thought Renault would be fine from the get go, but instead, we see Mercedes having the least problems, with Ferrari faring well than expected...

And there was Vettel's ERS issue. Could the ERS issue be due to a defective part/parts?

Post by **mario** » 29 Jan 2014, 20:49

roblomas52 wrote:
Shizuka wrote:
mario wrote:the current batch of Renault engines have defective crankshafts that need replacing

And we thought Renault would be fine from the get go, but instead, we see Mercedes having the least problems, with Ferrari faring well than expected...

And there was Vettel's ERS issue. Could the ERS issue be due to a defective part/parts?

Well, it now appears that Renault have played down the rumours of mechanical issues but have stated that the recent issues are down to problems with the electronic systems that control the energy recovery systems. http://www.f1technical.net/news/19104?s ... 7858089e57

go_Rubens · Post by **go_Rubens** » 29 Jan 2014, 21:03

Aerospeed wrote:This is a good video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=keLcrTw7FOI

Engines sound fantastic!

The engine sounds are fantastic! Very reminiscent of the 80s.

I think the Sauber is the best impression of the 1991 Footwork Porsche.

The "thing" noses don't look too bad on track. I suppose I've gotten used to them.

DanielPT · Post by **DanielPT** » 30 Jan 2014, 11:20

In the autosport live commentary:

10:58 Red Bull is out. Daniel Ricciardo takes to the track for the first time in the RB10, which has completed just 11 laps so far in 2014 testing.

11:00 Red flag. We're not sure what the cause is yet.

11:00 It's the Red Bull...

11:04 The car made it as far as the double left-hander after Dry Sac before Ricciardo pulled to the side of the circuit. He's out the car, has his helmet off and is inspecting the car.

I say, that is the best impression of an Andrea Moda in a very long time! :lol:

go_Rubens · Post by **go_Rubens** » 30 Jan 2014, 11:21

Or simply the Life L190 :lol:

That's very rejectful indeed.

TomWazzleshaw · Post by **TomWazzleshaw** » 30 Jan 2014, 11:22

So far, Red Bull have managed a grand total of 11 laps all year. I'm liking this a lot :lol:

go_Rubens · Post by **go_Rubens** » 30 Jan 2014, 11:26

Two red flags... One for a Ferrari, the other for Red Bull. Well, this is looking a bit better for McLaren and Mercedes.

roblo97 · Post by **roblo97** » 30 Jan 2014, 11:54

This is what the BBC said about the Red Bull red flag...

11:04:
...No sooner had Daniel Ricciardo been waved away from the pitlane, smoke emanated from the back of the RB10 and it came to a stop on the track.
11:01:
RED FLAG
...scrap that, pack the trumpets away and pay up the brass band. The red flag is out, and it is for the Red Bull...
11:00:
Big fanfare! Three hours in and we finally, finally have first sight of Red Bull as Daniel Ricciardo appears on the circuit...

Rusujuur · Post by **Rusujuur** » 30 Jan 2014, 12:10

Well, after day 3 early runnings we can say it is VERY bad for Renault and also for RB as the track time is low. Lotus may just have made the right decision not to go to testing with a crap engine and continue work on their chassis.

Ferrim · Post by **Ferrim** » 30 Jan 2014, 12:27

Rusujuur wrote:Well, after day 3 early runnings we can say it is VERY bad for Renault and also for RB as the track time is low. Lotus may just have made the right decision not to go to testing with a crap engine and continue work on their chassis.

I don't think they made that decision because they thought the engine was crap, though - but this will be a bit of a boost for them, they have saved a fair amount of money and missed nothing.

By the looks of it, there are problems with the Renault engine AND with the Red Bull chassis, that's why Toro Rosso can at least go on track, although at a reduced pace, while Red Bull can't.

While Ferrari isn't a disaster, it is looking increasingly good for the Mercedes-powered teams.

rachel1990 · Post by **rachel1990** » 30 Jan 2014, 12:35

Ferrim wrote:
Rusujuur wrote:Well, after day 3 early runnings we can say it is VERY bad for Renault and also for RB as the track time is low. Lotus may just have made the right decision not to go to testing with a crap engine and continue work on their chassis.

I don't think they made that decision because they thought the engine was crap, though - but this will be a bit of a boost for them, they have saved a fair amount of money and missed nothing.

By the looks of it, there are problems with the Renault engine AND with the Red Bull chassis, that's why Toro Rosso can at least go on track, although at a reduced pace, while Red Bull can't.

While Ferrari isn't a disaster, it is looking increasingly good for the Mercedes-powered teams.

I'm not hugely upset by Red Bull having issues strangely...
Nico Vs Lewis for the title- What a season that COULD be.

Rusujuur · Post by **Rusujuur** » 30 Jan 2014, 12:36

Ferrim wrote:While Ferrari isn't a disaster, it is looking increasingly good for the Mercedes-powered teams.

I can't see any worries for Ferrari as well. The unit is working well, it seems, and well, the car is conservative but it could change... Mercs have the upper hand but not THAT much to call it a season. Renault definitely has to do some thinking....

DanielPT · Post by **DanielPT** » 30 Jan 2014, 12:44

Rusujuur wrote:
Ferrim wrote:While Ferrari isn't a disaster, it is looking increasingly good for the Mercedes-powered teams.

I can't see any worries for Ferrari as well. The unit is working well, it seems, and well, the car is conservative but it could change... Mercs have the upper hand but not THAT much to call it a season. Renault definitely has to do some thinking....

Certainly they do. And between the Mercedes teams, while still very early, I reckon that this McLaren makes this top lap times business to look bit easy at the moment...

AdrianSutil · Post by **AdrianSutil** » 30 Jan 2014, 15:52

DanielPT wrote:
Rusujuur wrote:
Ferrim wrote:While Ferrari isn't a disaster, it is looking increasingly good for the Mercedes-powered teams.

I can't see any worries for Ferrari as well. The unit is working well, it seems, and well, the car is conservative but it could change... Mercs have the upper hand but not THAT much to call it a season. Renault definitely has to do some thinking....

Certainly they do. And between the Mercedes teams, while still very early, I reckon that this McLaren makes this top lap times business to look bit easy at the moment...

Renault are seriously struggling. Both Caterham and ToroRosso can only seem to do token laps (unless ToroRosso made a good stint today) whilst RedBull have their own problems: both the ERS-H and ERS-K systems are failing simultaneously whilst the packaging at the rear is too tight to accommodate it all, hence why both Newey and Horner are flying back to UK to try and sole the problem.

Expect dramatically re-designed rear bodywork at Bahrain.

And I'm loving these engines. Reminds me of an era I so wished to have been a part of: the 80's.

Ferrim · Post by **Ferrim** » 30 Jan 2014, 16:00

Jean-Éric Vergne has just done a Perry McCarthy impression:

VirtuaMcPolygon · Post by **VirtuaMcPolygon** » 30 Jan 2014, 16:26

Bet it's overheating and shutting the whole thing off and stalling the engine. Wouldn't surprise me if newey plonked the ERS electronics next to somewhere hot and it's all overheating just because the weight distro was better. e.g. under the gearbox.

dunno. Something is telling me Marussia is a good bet to get points this season if they play it safe and under rev the motor and just try to finish in oz.

girry · Post by **girry** » 30 Jan 2014, 17:41

I know the true F1 fans on autosportforums and everywhere else want to ban anyone from saying positive things about the sport, but got to say I am really looking forward to the season already - perhaps more than ever. After just a couple of days of testing, already loving the new engines and the unpredictability that comes along with the new technology.

Rusujuur · Post by **Rusujuur** » 30 Jan 2014, 18:32

giraurd wrote:I know the true F1 fans on autosportforums and everywhere else want to ban anyone from saying positive things about the sport, but got to say I am really looking forward to the season already - perhaps more than ever. After just a couple of days of testing, already loving the new engines and the unpredictability that comes along with the new technology.

You can count me in. I am also eager to see this pan out, but maybe with a slightly more bullish Renault engine. i mean the various designs are so different I want to see them on track on equal footing.

VirtuaMcPolygon · Post by **VirtuaMcPolygon** » 30 Jan 2014, 18:45

Agree.. this is like a wet race! Never known a pre season to be this exciting since the wacky days of the late 80's to mid 90's. Well thats as far back as i can remember anyway.

Post by **mario** » 30 Jan 2014, 18:47

VirtuaMcPolygon wrote:Bet it's overheating and shutting the whole thing off and stalling the engine. Wouldn't surprise me if newey plonked the ERS electronics next to somewhere hot and it's all overheating just because the weight distro was better. e.g. under the gearbox.

dunno. Something is telling me Marussia is a good bet to get points this season if they play it safe and under rev the motor and just try to finish in oz.

The movement has been in the other direction - Red Bull used to have the battery unit integrated into the gearbox housing for weight and cooling reasons, but the regulations now specify that the battery unit has to be within the chassis and next to the fuel cell.

It seems to be that change that has brought about the major cooling issues for Red Bull - Renault have claimed that Red Bull has been suffering from additional problems that are specific to the way they have installed the engine in their car - and might be raising a few alarms back at base. Ricciardo has already mentioned that Newey has returned from Jerez to the office and is looking at redesigning the car, but the fact that all three Renault powered teams present in Jerez are suffering from persistent issues suggests that Renault are going to be coming under a lot of pressure for Bahrain. If cars are already suffering from cooling problems in a relatively cool Spanish winter, they're going to be in serious trouble in Bahrain next month.

AdrianSutil wrote:Renault are seriously struggling. Both Caterham and ToroRosso can only seem to do token laps (unless ToroRosso made a good stint today) whilst RedBull have their own problems: both the ERS-H and ERS-K systems are failing simultaneously whilst the packaging at the rear is too tight to accommodate it all, hence why both Newey and Horner are flying back to UK to try and sole the problem.

Expect dramatically re-designed rear bodywork at Bahrain.

And I'm loving these engines. Reminds me of an era I so wished to have been a part of: the 80's.

Well, Toro Rosso were only able to limp round for a few laps today, and when their car was running it sounded like it was constantly misfiring http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RMaovFFkNLQ

It's lead some to wonder whether or not there might be a glitch in the exhaust driven energy recovery system, which is also being used as a way of controlling the boost pressure rather than relying on wastegates.

VirtuaMcPolygon · Post by **VirtuaMcPolygon** » 30 Jan 2014, 18:56

I knew the battery was now under the fuel cell. *fingers xxxx* one of those batteries doesn't explode. Even if they are kevlar and titanic in design. Your just toying with fate…

I thought all the electronics were in the side pods thou. But i'm guessing Newey has moved them for balance. Being how heavy the cars are this season. The quote from Renault was they were surprised where it has been mounted on the RB and Toro. So they must be in the same place. Either way it's going to be a complete pig to move things around. Everyone knows how tight Newey packages his cars >_< And it's not like they can run the cars without KERS like they did the last time.

AdrianSutil · Post by **AdrianSutil** » 30 Jan 2014, 19:20

Indeed. A KERS failure during a session will slow the car down by several seconds per lap. That's how much energy and power this thing has! Only found this out through Ted Kravitz's little testing show at 9:15pm each night. I'll be watching again tonight, some really useful info about the engines last night and the new wings tonight.

Jocke1 · Post by **Jocke1** » 30 Jan 2014, 19:50

AdrianSutil wrote:Only found this out through Ted Kravitz's little testing show at 9:15pm each night. I'll be watching again tonight, some really useful info about the engines last night.

I laughed at those looks Rémi Taffin gave him last night, when Ted started out with his little fan and nose trimmer.
Looked like Rémi thought 'boy, this guy is crazy'.
I love Ted, though. A lovable geek.

eytl · Post by **eytl** » 30 Jan 2014, 19:59

mario wrote:If cars are already suffering from cooling problems in a relatively cool Spanish winter, they're going to be in serious trouble in Bahrain next month.

Yes, but serious trouble in the warmer, dry climate of Bahrain will be nothing compared to the hot and humid conditions of Malaysia ...

And I'm agreeing with all those who love the fact that unreliability, not tyre degradation, could be the deciding factor in the early races. What are the chances that as few as 5 cars will make the line in Melbourne? Or that a car could actually pit for a lap or two to fix problems, and still claim a decent haul of points?

Mind you, Nigel Mansell's Ferrari with its new semi-automatic gearbox could hardly do five successive laps in testing before the start of 1989, so much so that Nigel booked an early flight home from Rio. He went on to win the race ...

Jocke1 · Post by **Jocke1** » 30 Jan 2014, 20:07

Aaah, what sweet music.

http://youtu.be/RMaovFFkNLQ

Divina_Galica · Post by **Divina_Galica** » 30 Jan 2014, 20:57

Jocke1 wrote:
AdrianSutil wrote:Only found this out through Ted Kravitz's little testing show at 9:15pm each night. I'll be watching again tonight, some really useful info about the engines last night.

I laughed at those looks Rémi Taffin gave him last night, when Ted started out with his little fan and nose trimmer.
Looked like Rémi thought 'boy, this guy is crazy'.
I love Ted, though. A lovable geek.

Given the lack of joy Renault are having with the new engines so far, I think Taffin was actually quite jealous that Ted's toys were working...

DG

andrew2209 · Post by **andrew2209** » 30 Jan 2014, 21:05

The 2014 seasons looks explosive. Literally.

good_Ralf · Post by **good_Ralf** » 30 Jan 2014, 21:25

andrew2209 wrote:The 2014 seasons looks explosive. Literally.

Then I hope the turbos are THIS explosive

go_Rubens · Post by **go_Rubens** » 30 Jan 2014, 21:26

andrew2209 wrote:The 2014 seasons looks explosive. Literally.

Right now, it looks Renault explosive. It also looks like a complete walkover for McLaren and Mercedes based on pace and reliability. Hell, Magnussen has set the fastest time so far. And it's close to the performance difference I and others were expecting.

Belegur · Post by **Belegur** » 31 Jan 2014, 00:19

It's staying true to historical form that Renault just can't develop a reliable turbo engine from the get-go. They need time to get all the gremlins sorted out. Remember that the first time they genuinely challenged for the title was 83. They introduced their turbo engine in 77. Took them 5+ years the first time. They don't have that luxury this time around.

wsrgo · Post by **wsrgo** » 31 Jan 2014, 03:02

I think the long two and a half weeks between Jerez and Bahrain will be crucial for any development. Ferrari have to work hard to try and ensure they don't fall behind the Mercedes=powered teams too much. And Renault..well they've got to get on top of all their crankshaft, recovery systems, or whatever the heck the problem is.
So far, I'd put my money on Mercedes, because while McLaren have got the quicker laps, I think Mercedes's lap times were more representative, more far-sighted and the fact that they can develop their own engine units makes me think they are the best-prepared team.
But it could all change at Bahrain. I wouldn't be surprised if it does.

Post by **mario** » 31 Jan 2014, 07:21

wsrgo wrote:I think the long two and a half weeks between Jerez and Bahrain will be crucial for any development. Ferrari have to work hard to try and ensure they don't fall behind the Mercedes=powered teams too much. And Renault..well they've got to get on top of all their crankshaft, recovery systems, or whatever the heck the problem is.
So far, I'd put my money on Mercedes, because while McLaren have got the quicker laps, I think Mercedes's lap times were more representative, more far-sighted and the fact that they can develop their own engine units makes me think they are the best-prepared team.
But it could all change at Bahrain. I wouldn't be surprised if it does.

If there are indeed serious problems with their power unit, then Renault have not got much time to work with - it is, after all, just over six weeks to the Australian GP.

As for the lap times, well, they are only vague guidelines of performance - Ferrari and Mercedes seem to have chosen not to wind the engines up to full power just yet (both are reportedly running at about 13,000rpm right now), and most drivers are not pushing the cars too hard just yet. Magnussen has indicated that he is pushing moderately hard, so perhaps McLaren look a little further ahead than some other teams - mind you, Mercedes have been able to rack up longer runs than their rivals apparently, so they look promising too. Ferrari, equally, look to be in a solid enough position too - I suppose that the big question will be how Red Bull fare as and when Renault can sort out their problems.

AustralianStig · Post by **AustralianStig** » 31 Jan 2014, 08:05

F1 Fanatic just tweeted this:

At the start of testing today Mercedes engines have covered over 2,000km, Ferrari over 1,000km and Renault 358km.

That's pretty telling...