What Tracks Will Get the Boot?

CoopsII · Post by **CoopsII** » 05 Mar 2014, 16:16

Ataxia wrote:Out of all the places F1 could go to, here's a surprising candidate.

I know, I know wrong country....

Yannick · Post by **Yannick** » 05 Mar 2014, 16:24

If there is a race in one region, Bernie will always publicly build up contacts to possible organizers for other races in the same region. It helps with scheduling to have two dates close together, and they always can compete for the same slot on the calendar, raising the price. So the talk of Long Beach and Azerbaijan in the press is just Bernie trying the old trick of the price hike on Austin (now that New Jersey doesn't seem to happen) and Sotchi.

Yet, Azerbaijan is an oil country, so why not go car racing there? It kind of makes sense.

andrew2209 · Post by **andrew2209** » 05 Mar 2014, 17:03

Ataxia wrote:Out of all the places F1 could go to, here's a surprising candidate.

Yeah, Azerbaijan has such a great heritage in motorsport.

Seriously, just about the onyl facts I know about Azerbaijan is that is the birthplace of the famous Russian linesman, and they questioned 43 people for the crime of voting for Armenia in the Eurovision Song Contest

dinizintheoven · Post by **dinizintheoven** » 05 Mar 2014, 21:24

...and that it's Eddie Izzard's favoured place to head for the hills.

dr-baker · Post by **dr-baker** » 06 Mar 2014, 11:09

Well, there is a short history of FIA GT racing in Baku, the capital of Azerbaijan... But yeah, not an impressive history of motor racing!

Post by **Londoner** » 06 Mar 2014, 11:23

Turns out Azerbaijan may not be the only new race in 2016...

I must say, I'm looking forward to this one.

Aerospeed · Post by **Aerospeed** » 06 Mar 2014, 12:29

Doesn't bode well for Montreal, sadly....

watka · Post by **watka** » 06 Mar 2014, 13:23

I can't decide whether Jamie & Enoch will be excited or disgusted by the prospect of an Azeri Grand Prix. Such a random place even considering the oil!

I'm not sure the drivers will like it though. First having to stay in Sochi and now Baku, which going by the reports from the Eurovision song contest when it was held there, is not the nicest place.

dr-baker · Post by **dr-baker** » 06 Mar 2014, 13:36

East Londoner wrote:Turns out Azerbaijan may not be the only new race in 2016...

I must say, I'm looking forward to this one.

Can't be long until they announce a Grand Prix in Narnia. Perhaps around Cair Paravel or in the town of Beaversdam? Actually, the whole thing reminds me of a draft calendar that A1GP once put out for their second season:

A1GP wrote:01/04/2006 - Taking racing to the people wherever they may be is the key to the second series of A1 Grand Prix, starting at the A1 Grand Prix of Nations, Circuit Park Zandvoort, Netherlands at the start of October. And so is breaking new ground as the A1GP circus sets its sights on a series of venues that have never been used for motor racing before.

Many of these new venues will require specific regulations to draw the most from the 550bhp racers. For the Venice street race, crew catering will serve only Cornettos. For the hill climb in Tibet, half the field will start the course from the bottom, the other half from the top. For the night race in Lapland, huskies are to be used in place of scooters for moving items around the paddock. Cars will arrive flatpacked for the Ikea Cup race in Narnia, so extra time will be required for their assembly. Sniffer dogs will be used in place of marshals for the race in Baghdad to find any explosives in the cargo. Should any freight issues arise from the event in the Falklands, the event will be moved to Ascension Island. No one with hairy ears will start the races in Middle Earth until their ears have been plucked. Finally, fireproof overalls will be replaced by water wings for the Bikini Atoll extravaganza.

So, remember, A1 Grand Prix takes you places you've never been before.

A1 GRAND PRIX SERIES TWO DATES

29 September-1 October A1 Grand Prix of Nations, Circuit Park Zandvoort, Netherlands
13-15 October Venice street race (this replaces the round at Laguna Seca)
27-29 October Tibetan hill climb
3-5 November Kabul
24-26 December Lapland (night race)
5-7 January Narnia (for the Ikea Cup)
19-21 January A1 Grand Prix of Nations, USA - to be held in Baghdad (or Teheran)
26-28 January Canvey Island
12-14 February The Latvian round - to be held on the Isle of Dog (innit!)
26-28 February Falkland Islands
23-25 March Middle Earth 'the Ring'
6-8 April Bikini Atoll
20-22 April South Central LA (drive-by penalties will be enforced)

Date of release: April 1, 2006, Shanghai, China

go_Rubens · Post by **go_Rubens** » 07 Mar 2014, 00:50

India not to return in 2015, apparently.

Discuss.

Aerospeed · Post by **Aerospeed** » 07 Mar 2014, 04:03

go_Rubens wrote:India not to return in 2015, apparently.

Discuss.

Probably the end result of the new Azerbaijan rumours. Suddenly it's starting to have some traction...

CoopsII · Post by **CoopsII** » 07 Mar 2014, 07:48

go_Rubens wrote:India not to return in 2015, apparently.
Discuss.

Nothing to discuss. It wasnt a massive success.

DanielPT · Post by **DanielPT** » 07 Mar 2014, 10:04

CoopsII wrote:
go_Rubens wrote:India not to return in 2015, apparently.
Discuss.

Nothing to discuss. It wasnt a massive success.

And it was a nightmare bureaucratically and logistically speaking. I won't miss it much if it goes.

CoopsII · Post by **CoopsII** » 07 Mar 2014, 12:19

go_Rubens wrote:http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/112751

So, if they do get the gig for an F1 race, who disappears? New Jersey or Austin? Or both? Surely both New Jersey and Austin stay together on the calendar if these guys get the contract for a race back for the first time since 1983.

No Long Beach, no surprise. Although, its sort of a shame. In a way it does have a long history, as well as the aforementioned beach.
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/112784

girry · Post by **girry** » 07 Mar 2014, 13:22

Buddh going is a bit of a shame in my opinion, since Indians actually seemed relatively interested in the sport - at least in comparison to the Turks, Koreans, Malaysians, Bahrainians and Emiratis...

Salamander · Post by **Salamander** » 07 Mar 2014, 14:23

giraurd wrote:Buddh going is a bit of a shame in my opinion, since Indians actually seemed relatively interested in the sport - at least in comparison to the Turks, Koreans, Malaysians, Bahrainians and Emiratis...

Where are you getting that idea? I was under the impression that F1 had completely failed to market itself to India.

girry · Post by **girry** » 07 Mar 2014, 14:50

I admit it's just a general impression I've gotten (no numbers) but I remember the stands were pretty full in the races..?

CoopsII · Post by **CoopsII** » 07 Mar 2014, 17:19

giraitrd wrote:I admit it's just a general impression I've gotten (no numbers) but I remember the stands were pretty full in the races..?

They certainly looked full on race day and they all seemed a happy bunch of punters but the return on even decent ticket sales alone isnt enough. Management want F1 to become more the core of an countrys motorsport and an important part of any nations overall sport to really reap the financial rewatds for all involved. Theres alot of people in India afterall. I read somewhere the folk in charge of stuff werent too helpful in smoothing the way for F1, im sure Mario has more details in his cranium

Post by **mario** » 07 Mar 2014, 18:34

CoopsII wrote:
giraitrd wrote:I admit it's just a general impression I've gotten (no numbers) but I remember the stands were pretty full in the races..?

They certainly looked full on race day and they all seemed a happy bunch of punters but the return on even decent ticket sales alone isnt enough. Management want F1 to become more the core of an countrys motorsport and an important part of any nations overall sport to really reap the financial rewatds for all involved. Theres alot of people in India afterall. I read somewhere the folk in charge of stuff werent too helpful in smoothing the way for F1, im sure Mario has more details in his cranium

Officially, the race attendance figures indicate that not all is well - the 2011 race reportedly saw 95,000 attend, but attendance figures had fallen to 65,000 the following year. Perhaps it is rather telling that nobody appears to have officially announced the attendance figures for the 2013 grand prix, but there are some suggestions that ticket sales may have fallen to just 40,000 in 2013.

The Indian government has certainly not helped affairs - Formula 1 was classified as an entertainment business rather than a sport in India because, that way, the Indian government could levy significantly higher taxes on the teams. There were even a few rumours that the Indian government was trying to levy taxes on the total income of the teams, rather than just the revenue that they generated within India, which the teams were understandably quite angry about.
On top of that, the visa system is notoriously long winded and awkward to get through (and sometimes abused by officials seeking bribes), there are records of disputes between the local land owners and the circuit builders (amid accusations that the local land owners were not given adequate compensation) and some indications that the current governor has capitalised on that discontent by deliberately distancing himself from the circuit and not assisting the circuit owners, exacerbating the problems of the circuit.

All in all, whilst the population of India is extremely sizeable, at the moment most of the money of your average viewer in India is probably going on cricket (some of the deals for media rights run into hundreds of millions of dollars), which would also seem to explain the recent spike in allegations of match fixing and betting scams surrounding the IPL. When you consider the heavy media presence of other key sports and how established they have become in the national psyche, a sport like F1, which prides itself on elitism and being something of a niche sport, is always going to face a considerable uphill battle to make itself known.

AndreaModa · Post by **AndreaModa** » 07 Mar 2014, 19:15

Unfortunately for India, and I mean no disrespect to anyone from or living in India, but the country is ruining itself with bureaucratic nonsense and rampant corruption. Aside from effectively driving F1 out of what should be one of it's key markets, the country's laws are limiting multinational companies from establishing business there and strangling its economy to the point where it risks falling behind other up and coming nations, despite it's massive population and impressive standard of living increases.

It's a shame for F1 because it's important for the sport to be in key growth markets around the world in order to attract sponsors and manufacturers, but ultimately, and arguably surprisingly, it's not F1's fault this time around. Maybe in a few years they'll return when the lawmakers see more sense and realise what they've lost.

Rusujuur · Post by **Rusujuur** » 21 Mar 2014, 14:49

I wonder what are the odds of the Russian GP going on as planned this year. While I think that unless things escalate to unforseen levels there won't be any security issues like were in Bahrain but the political situation at the moment looks more unfavourable. I think the only time a GP was canceled due to politics was Kyalami from 1985 onwards but wasn't the apartheid in full spin several decades before that?

The rebuilding of Sochi has been seen as Putins pet project so if the West would like troll him that would be an easy way to do it. How are these things actually done and who decides? I would imagine that Bernie would like have the GP as deals have been struck, the market is lucrative and as we saw from the Bahrain case the politics don't matter to him. I suspect we'll hear more on this around summertime.

watka · Post by **watka** » 22 Mar 2014, 15:01

Rusujuur wrote:I wonder what are the odds of the Russian GP going on as planned this year. While I think that unless things escalate to unforseen levels there won't be any security issues like were in Bahrain but the political situation at the moment looks more unfavourable. I think the only time a GP was canceled due to politics was Kyalami from 1985 onwards but wasn't the apartheid in full spin several decades before that?

The rebuilding of Sochi has been seen as Putins pet project so if the West would like troll him that would be an easy way to do it. How are these things actually done and who decides? I would imagine that Bernie would like have the GP as deals have been struck, the market is lucrative and as we saw from the Bahrain case the politics don't matter to him. I suspect we'll hear more on this around summertime.

No way will Bernie cancel the Russian GP, unless there is a security risk to the teams. As you say, he couldn't give a stuff about Crimea.

Yannick · Post by **Yannick** » 24 Mar 2014, 11:22

Aerospeed wrote:Doesn't bode well for Montreal, sadly....

I'm sure the Verizon IndyCar Series or the NASCAR Nationwide Series would love to pick up that event ... wait, isn't NASCAR already racing there?

watka · Post by **watka** » 25 Mar 2014, 00:34

Yannick wrote:
Aerospeed wrote:Doesn't bode well for Montreal, sadly....

I'm sure the Verizon IndyCar Series or the NASCAR Nationwide Series would love to pick up that event ... wait, isn't NASCAR already racing there?

Only the Nationwide Series, not the Sprint Cup. It was chaos...

go_Rubens · Post by **go_Rubens** » 25 Mar 2014, 00:38

watka wrote:
Yannick wrote:
Aerospeed wrote:Doesn't bode well for Montreal, sadly....

I'm sure the Verizon IndyCar Series or the NASCAR Nationwide Series would love to pick up that event ... wait, isn't NASCAR already racing there?

Only the Nationwide Series, not the Sprint Cup. It was chaos...

Nationwide stopped racing in Montréal in 2012. It provided some good moments though. Like the shoe on track that Danica ran over :lol:

Rusujuur · Post by **Rusujuur** » 25 Mar 2014, 09:38

About the Russian situation: I have heard from rather reliable sources (the FIA dude in my country), that the race is good to go as things stand, there have been some concernes raised from some parties, but the overall feeling is that the crisis will blow over by Octobre and things will be back to normal if only in a slightky chillier climate...

That said, the same source also claimed that if the situation continues as tense as it is or worsens, it could be difficult. The thing is that both the EU and Russia are threatening each other with all sorts of sanctions and while at the moment they are rather mild it could escalate. They could include visa restrictions, restrictions on moving of goods and finances etc. This could make the practical side of things very difficult to arrange and these things have to be sorted out much earlier than Octobre. He however gave me an estimate of 80% that the race will be held.

madmark1974 · Post by **madmark1974** » 25 Mar 2014, 11:59

Slightly off topic ... But I don't think anyone has linked to this proposed new facility, in their own words :

World-class automotive cluster, centred around a performance circuit designed to host international motor sport events such as MotoGP, World Superbikes, World Motocross and World Touring Car

In... WALES .... http://circuitofwales.com/plans/

Silverstone are not liking it - http://web.orange.co.uk/article/sports/silverstone_questions_new_circuit

I can't see it being a success ...

sswishbone · Post by **sswishbone** » 25 Mar 2014, 12:06

Silverstone have a point regarding the govt funding requested by that circuit however. Silverstone have repeatedly asked and it has been turned down, as such why should this facility get preferential treatment? Also looking at the map this does look like a crap layout, hardly any obvious overtaking spots that can be seen, though no idea of the elevation so that could change that. Another issue is they want to build after confirming Moto GP... How can a grade for it possibly be decided if the track is not even in existence?

madmark1974 · Post by **madmark1974** » 25 Mar 2014, 12:21

sswishbone wrote:Silverstone have a point regarding the govt funding requested by that circuit however. Silverstone have repeatedly asked and it has been turned down, as such why should this facility get preferential treatment? Also looking at the map this does look like a crap layout, hardly any obvious overtaking spots that can be seen, though no idea of the elevation so that could change that. Another issue is they want to build after confirming Moto GP... How can a grade for it possibly be decided if the track is not even in existence?

They have issued a response to Silverstone, which I had missed, at the top of their News page : http://circuitofwales.com/news.asp

watka · Post by **watka** » 25 Mar 2014, 13:21

sswishbone wrote:Silverstone have a point regarding the govt funding requested by that circuit however. Silverstone have repeatedly asked and it has been turned down, as such why should this facility get preferential treatment? Also looking at the map this does look like a crap layout, hardly any obvious overtaking spots that can be seen, though no idea of the elevation so that could change that. Another issue is they want to build after confirming Moto GP... How can a grade for it possibly be decided if the track is not even in existence?

Funny you should mention that, there has actually been an instance of a track being scheduled on the MotoGP calendar but never being completed, and relatively recently too: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balatonring

Whilst it would be nice for Wales to have a decent motor racing facility, no one is calling for any major motor racing series to have an extra round in GB, or to replace the circuits currently being used (Silverstone, Brands Hatch, Donington). They've not had a round of the BTCC in Wales since 1993, so a circuit of national level quality would be a good idea, but there is no commercial reason for any international racing to be held there.

AndreaModa · Post by **AndreaModa** » 25 Mar 2014, 18:23

The whole project is a load of horsesh*t, it really is.

For one, it's in the middle of nowhere. Miles even from Cardiff, which itself is hardly a major population centre. Transport links remain poor, and facilities in the area are nowhere near up to scratch.

Also consider that it is miles from any other motorsport facility, team base or anything else. It is isolated, and combined with the above point about access, makes it unattractive for any team or supplier to relocate there. Why would they?

Thirdly, their sob story about being one of the most deprived areas in Britain is in no way justification to spend hundreds of millions of pounds on a permanent racing facility. I'm not arguing about the deprivation, that in itself is a terrible shame, but to suggest that a racetrack and associated developments will be a catalyst for an improvement in the local economy is absurd.

That is completely aside from attempting to raise most of the money from the British Government, who have, up until now, provided no financial assistance whatsoever to any other British racing track in modern times. Were it not for the good work of the BRDC this country may not even have an F1 race any more, and it is not by luck or chance that the majority of major motorsport operations are based in the UK, with most within 30 miles of Banbury, and thus Silverstone.

It is an unrealistic pipe dream, cooked up by ignorant dreamers who know nothing of the motorsport industry in this country.

watka wrote:Whilst it would be nice for Wales to have a decent motor racing facility, no one is calling for any major motor racing series to have an extra round in GB, or to replace the circuits currently being used (Silverstone, Brands Hatch, Donington). They've not had a round of the BTCC in Wales since 1993, so a circuit of national level quality would be a good idea, but there is no commercial reason for any international racing to be held there.

This is what should be being considered. Something in the Cardiff/Newport area that could cater for championships like the BTCC, BSB, British F3 and the like. They should take a look at somewhere like Knockhill and copy that formula. That's something I could get behind and support.

Post by **Londoner** » 25 Mar 2014, 18:47

To be honest, the only reason I'd like to see that circuit built is to annoy the NIMBYs. :lol:

AndreaModa wrote:
watka wrote:Whilst it would be nice for Wales to have a decent motor racing facility, no one is calling for any major motor racing series to have an extra round in GB, or to replace the circuits currently being used (Silverstone, Brands Hatch, Donington). They've not had a round of the BTCC in Wales since 1993, so a circuit of national level quality would be a good idea, but there is no commercial reason for any international racing to be held there.

This is what should be being considered. Something in the Cardiff/Newport area that could cater for championships like the BTCC, BSB, British F3 and the like. They should take a look at somewhere like Knockhill and copy that formula. That's something I could get behind and support.

Why not invest money into Pembrey, the circuit Wales has already got? It's around the same size as Knockhill, and is located in South Wales (admittedly a fair distance away from Cardiff/Newport, but close to Swansea).

roblo97 · Post by **roblo97** » 25 Mar 2014, 19:21

East Londoner wrote:To be honest, the only reason I'd like to see that circuit built is to annoy the NIMBYs.

AndreaModa wrote:
watka wrote:Whilst it would be nice for Wales to have a decent motor racing facility, no one is calling for any major motor racing series to have an extra round in GB, or to replace the circuits currently being used (Silverstone, Brands Hatch, Donington). They've not had a round of the BTCC in Wales since 1993, so a circuit of national level quality would be a good idea, but there is no commercial reason for any international racing to be held there.

This is what should be being considered. Something in the Cardiff/Newport area that could cater for championships like the BTCC, BSB, British F3 and the like. They should take a look at somewhere like Knockhill and copy that formula. That's something I could get behind and support.

Why not invest money into Pembrey, the circuit Wales has already got? It's around the same size as Knockhill, and is located in South Wales (admittedly a fair distance away from Cardiff/Newport, but close to Swansea).

Anglesey called...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglesey_Circuit

AndreaModa · Post by **AndreaModa** » 25 Mar 2014, 19:27

East Londoner wrote:To be honest, the only reason I'd like to see that circuit built is to annoy the NIMBYs.

AndreaModa wrote:
watka wrote:Whilst it would be nice for Wales to have a decent motor racing facility, no one is calling for any major motor racing series to have an extra round in GB, or to replace the circuits currently being used (Silverstone, Brands Hatch, Donington). They've not had a round of the BTCC in Wales since 1993, so a circuit of national level quality would be a good idea, but there is no commercial reason for any international racing to be held there.

This is what should be being considered. Something in the Cardiff/Newport area that could cater for championships like the BTCC, BSB, British F3 and the like. They should take a look at somewhere like Knockhill and copy that formula. That's something I could get behind and support.

Why not invest money into Pembrey, the circuit Wales has already got? It's around the same size as Knockhill, and is located in South Wales (admittedly a fair distance away from Cardiff/Newport, but close to Swansea).

Yeah that's a good point, if cost is an issue then Pembrey would be a good option to look at. There's still an issue around access though, it's out of the way and on the wrong side of Swansea. Some improvements to the A484 around Llanelli and Burry Port would help create a pretty direct link to the M4 though.

I'd be very interested to hear what the owners of Pembrey have to say about this whole Circuit of Wales thing. I can't imagine they'd be too happy with it going ahead without anything for themselves.

dinizintheoven · Post by **dinizintheoven** » 25 Mar 2014, 20:58

Just think how much money the government could raise by having the Circuit of Wales where it's planned, though.

The road between Ebbw Vale and Merthyr Tydfil is infested with average speed cameras...

johnston21 · Post by **johnston21** » 08 Jun 2014, 12:08

Thought for sure Canada was lost. Now a 10 yr deal with 35 Mil upgrades for the Padock and Control Tower.

Would have been nice to see some of that money go towards the spectator's comfort...

TomWazzleshaw · Post by **TomWazzleshaw** » 18 Jun 2014, 06:17

If this is to be believed, it looks like the end is here for Hockenheim

go_Rubens · Post by **go_Rubens** » 18 Jun 2014, 07:44

Wizzie wrote:If this is to be believed, it looks like the end is here for Hockenheim

However, I think it's a good thing that the German GP has a more stable future now as both Hockenheim and Nürburgring before were in precarious money woes. But, the German GP may have a more permanent home for once.

wsrgo · Post by **wsrgo** » 18 Jun 2014, 13:01

go_Rubens wrote:
Wizzie wrote:If this is to be believed, it looks like the end is here for Hockenheim

However, I think it's a good thing that the German GP has a more stable future now as both Hockenheim and Nürburgring before were in precarious money woes. But, the German GP may have a more permanent home for once.

Also, I've always preferred Nurburgring. Dunno why, it just appeals more to me, I guess..

go_Rubens · Post by **go_Rubens** » 18 Jun 2014, 16:02

wsrgo wrote:
go_Rubens wrote:
Wizzie wrote:If this is to be believed, it looks like the end is here for Hockenheim

However, I think it's a good thing that the German GP has a more stable future now as both Hockenheim and Nürburgring before were in precarious money woes. But, the German GP may have a more permanent home for once.

Also, I've always preferred Nurburgring. Dunno why, it just appeals more to me, I guess..

Hockenheim appeals to me. Well, the old layout anyway. The new one does have appeal, but I think the Nürburgring for me has more appeal.