2014 Austrian Grand Prix Discussion Thread

Jocke1 · Post by **Jocke1** » 21 Jun 2014, 13:25

What a guy! Marcus Ericsson.

He sets a time good enough for 22nd on the grid for tomorrow, really good job for a rookie.
And he was only 0.898 seconds off 21st place. He's going places this kid.

Head-to-Head in Qualifying;

Hamilton 4 - 4 Rosberg
Ricciardo 6 - 2 Vettel
Button 4 - 4 Magnussen
Alonso 6 - 2 Raikkonen
Hulkenberg 6 - 2 Perez
Massa 4 - 4 Bottas
Vergne 5 - 3 Kvyat
Sutil 4 - 4 Gutierrez
Grosjean 7 - 1 Maldonado
Kobayashi 7 - 1 Ericsson
Bianchi 5 - 3 Chilton

Ed24 · Post by **Ed24** » 21 Jun 2014, 13:32

takagi_for_the_win wrote:Now watch as they proceed to do a carbon-copy of Toyota at Bahrain 2009...

I was thinking McLaren at Austria 1999 might be more likely

good_Ralf · Post by **good_Ralf** » 21 Jun 2014, 13:33

Ed24 wrote:
takagi_for_the_win wrote:Now watch as they proceed to do a carbon-copy of Toyota at Bahrain 2009...

I was thinking McLaren at Austria 1999 might be more likely

Williams in Canada 2003 is another possibility.

More_Blue_Flags · Post by **More_Blue_Flags** » 21 Jun 2014, 13:33

takagi_for_the_win wrote:Go Team Willy!!

Now watch as they proceed to do a carbon-copy of Toyota at Bahrain 2009...

good_Ralf wrote:Beautiful result. Either Williams are going to win in style or make a massive fail of the race, worse than even their Canada performance.

The worst part is that deep down, I think you are both right...

UncreativeUsername37 · Post by **UncreativeUsername37** » 21 Jun 2014, 13:35

Maybe Mercedes at Canada 2014....

Ed24 · Post by **Ed24** » 21 Jun 2014, 13:39

Red Bull/Vettel will have to do something solid tomorrow to avoid RotR - failing at your own namesake track must surely shoot them high up the list of contenders!

Post by **mario** » 21 Jun 2014, 13:58

Ed24 wrote:Red Bull/Vettel will have to do something solid tomorrow to avoid RotR - failing at your own namesake track must surely shoot them high up the list of contenders!

It's going to be especially painful given that Ricciardo is starting in 5th place whilst Vettel is all the way down in 12th (once Perez's penalty kicks in) - I expect that Ricciardo might find it a little difficult to maintain that position though.

Speaking of team mates struggling, what happened to Kimi in the final part of qualifying? He set his slowest lap time of the session, more than a second slower than Q2 and 1.5s behind Alonso. Did he make a mistake or encounter mechanical issues? That is a lot of lap time to suddenly start losing very quickly.

Dj_bereta · Post by **Dj_bereta** » 21 Jun 2014, 14:09

Ed24 wrote:Red Bull/Vettel will have to do something solid tomorrow to avoid RotR - failing at your own namesake track must surely shoot them high up the list of contenders!

Hamilton is trying hard to take the ROTR from Red Bull. Also, I have a feeling that Williams will do a bad strategy for the race.

Aerospeed · Post by **Aerospeed** » 21 Jun 2014, 14:15

Massa on pole???? I can't even....

roblo97 · Post by **roblo97** » 21 Jun 2014, 14:23

I think it will be Hamilton from Red Bull tomorrow as far as ROTR goes!

Dj_bereta · Post by **Dj_bereta** » 21 Jun 2014, 14:42

Ed24 wrote:
takagi_for_the_win wrote:Now watch as they proceed to do a carbon-copy of Toyota at Bahrain 2009...

I was thinking McLaren at Austria 1999 might be more likely

Looking at Bottas face after qualify, he was truly disappointed. I think he will attack Massa for sure.

TomWazzleshaw · Post by **TomWazzleshaw** » 21 Jun 2014, 14:42

mario wrote:
Ed24 wrote:Red Bull/Vettel will have to do something solid tomorrow to avoid RotR - failing at your own namesake track must surely shoot them high up the list of contenders!

It's going to be especially painful given that Ricciardo is starting in 5th place whilst Vettel is all the way down in 12th (once Perez's penalty kicks in) - I expect that Ricciardo might find it a little difficult to maintain that position though.

Speaking of team mates struggling, what happened to Kimi in the final part of qualifying? He set his slowest lap time of the session, more than a second slower than Q2 and 1.5s behind Alonso. Did he make a mistake or encounter mechanical issues? That is a lot of lap time to suddenly start losing very quickly.

Apparently, Kimi locked a brake at turn 1 on his hot lap and abandoned the exercise from there

takagi_for_the_win · Post by **takagi_for_the_win** » 21 Jun 2014, 14:45

Dj_bereta wrote:
Ed24 wrote:
takagi_for_the_win wrote:Now watch as they proceed to do a carbon-copy of Toyota at Bahrain 2009...

I was thinking McLaren at Austria 1999 might be more likely

Looking at Bottas face after qualify, he was truly disappointed. I think he will attack Massa for sure.

Waheyyyy! Surprise teammate attacks everywhere!

Jocke1 · Post by **Jocke1** » 21 Jun 2014, 14:50

Don't forget Maldonado is in the middle of the pack starting 13th.
Mayhem at turn 2!

good_Ralf · Post by **good_Ralf** » 21 Jun 2014, 15:37

Dj_bereta wrote:Looking at Bottas face after qualify, he was truly disappointed. I think he will attack Massa for sure.

At least he becomes the 148th different driver in F1 history to start on the front row!

Thinking about it Montoya's first front row start also was at the RB Ring in 2001, when it was then known as A1-Ring.

UncreativeUsername37 · Post by **UncreativeUsername37** » 21 Jun 2014, 15:42

Jocke1 wrote:Don't forget Maldonado is in the middle of the pack starting 13th.
Mayhem at turn 2!

You don't get any Oracle points for calling that.

WeirdKerr · Post by **WeirdKerr** » 21 Jun 2014, 16:08

Jocke1 wrote:Don't forget Maldonado is in the middle of the pack starting 13th.
Mayhem at turn 2!

Turn 1....

Post by **mario** » 21 Jun 2014, 16:16

Wizzie wrote:
mario wrote:
Ed24 wrote:Red Bull/Vettel will have to do something solid tomorrow to avoid RotR - failing at your own namesake track must surely shoot them high up the list of contenders!

It's going to be especially painful given that Ricciardo is starting in 5th place whilst Vettel is all the way down in 12th (once Perez's penalty kicks in) - I expect that Ricciardo might find it a little difficult to maintain that position though.

Speaking of team mates struggling, what happened to Kimi in the final part of qualifying? He set his slowest lap time of the session, more than a second slower than Q2 and 1.5s behind Alonso. Did he make a mistake or encounter mechanical issues? That is a lot of lap time to suddenly start losing very quickly.

Apparently, Kimi locked a brake at turn 1 on his hot lap and abandoned the exercise from there

I see - I hadn't seen him lock up, but that would explain his relatively poor lap time.

Dj_bereta wrote:Looking at Bottas face after qualify, he was truly disappointed. I think he will attack Massa for sure.

I can kind of see why Bottas would be disappointed though.

If you watch the replay of Massa's lap, it's actually not a particularly clean lap - Massa locked up into Turn 1 and Turn 3, with the second lock up causing Massa to run a little wide on the corner exit, whilst he also ran slightly wide on the exits of Turn 6 and Turn 9 as well. Bottas was fractionally quicker in the first and last sectors than Massa, but was giving away a couple of tenths in the middle sector - I think that he feels he could have have been on pole instead of Massa, because Massa's lap definitely could and should have been better.

SgtPepper · Post by **SgtPepper** » 21 Jun 2014, 17:03

Managed to catch the dying seconds of Q3 listening to Radio 5 at work. Cannot believe I missed a Massa pole and Williams front row! Hopefully some torrents have been uploaded somewhere already.

CoopsII · Post by **CoopsII** » 21 Jun 2014, 17:49

I predict the forthcoming cyclonic battle of wills soon to be known as Massa V Bottas will make Hamilton V Rosberg look like Moreno V Diniz

Ed24 · Post by **Ed24** » 21 Jun 2014, 18:27

mario wrote:If you watch the replay of Massa's lap, it's actually not a particularly clean lap - Massa locked up into Turn 1 and Turn 3, with the second lock up causing Massa to run a little wide on the corner exit, whilst he also ran slightly wide on the exits of Turn 6 and Turn 9 as well. Bottas was fractionally quicker in the first and last sectors than Massa, but was giving away a couple of tenths in the middle sector - I think that he feels he could have have been on pole instead of Massa, because Massa's lap definitely could and should have been better.

It reminds me of Damon Hill's 2008 quote about Massa;

"What I don't quite understand is how Massa gets the lap times he does, when he so often misses the apexes of the corners"

But in general, to lose your first pole by such a small margin, especially to a team-mate, I think it's pretty natural to be disappointed.

watka · Post by **watka** » 21 Jun 2014, 23:48

CoopsII wrote:I predict the forthcoming cyclonic battle of wills soon to be known as Massa V Bottas will make Hamilton V Rosberg look like Moreno V Diniz

If Williams have a good race and are fighting for the win, I can definitely see the two clashing. There was a bit of friction earlier in the season when Massa refused to let Bottas past at Malaysia. They are both drivers who are quick to criticise others and both are willing to take risks and make big lunges. It could end in tears.

UncreativeUsername37 · Post by **UncreativeUsername37** » 22 Jun 2014, 00:21

watka wrote:
CoopsII wrote:I predict the forthcoming cyclonic battle of wills soon to be known as Massa V Bottas will make Hamilton V Rosberg look like Moreno V Diniz

If Williams have a good race and are fighting for the win, I can definitely see the two clashing. There was a bit of friction earlier in the season when Massa refused to let Bottas past at Malaysia. They are both drivers who are quick to criticise others and both are willing to take risks and make big lunges. It could end in tears.

Coming into turn 3 now, and that's a late move by Massa! They touch! Bottas spins into the gravel, Massa is still going but there's no way he can complete the race with that suspension. And Bottas, can he get going again? It looks like he's beached, he'll be out as well!

Mercedes wrote:lol

Jocke1 · Post by **Jocke1** » 22 Jun 2014, 12:11

What's Vettel doing?!? He was a lap down and forced Ricciardo to go wide and lose a place to Kvyat.
Couldn't he have planned that a bit better?
Or did he wait for that very chance/opportunity?

went · Post by **went** » 22 Jun 2014, 12:14

The curse of Webber's car strikes again.

PT8475 · Post by **PT8475** » 22 Jun 2014, 12:23

I'm sorry but how crap are the Williams strategists?? It was fairly obvious the Mercedes would get past if they didn't pit first, and yet still they didn't... I cannot think why, the Mercedes will pull away now.

good_Ralf · Post by **good_Ralf** » 22 Jun 2014, 12:33

Perez leads!

Nice race.

More_Blue_Flags · Post by **More_Blue_Flags** » 22 Jun 2014, 12:39

Pretty solid move on Perez by Rosberg for the lead, but Bottas' move on Perez right behind Rosberg was even better!

Ed24 · Post by **Ed24** » 22 Jun 2014, 12:40

PT8475 wrote:I'm sorry but how crap are the Williams strategists?? It was fairly obvious the Mercedes would get past if they didn't pit first, and yet still they didn't... I cannot think why, the Mercedes will pull away now.

Not to mention the inconsistencies of the pitstop times.... all over the place

went · Post by **went** » 22 Jun 2014, 12:56

Williams

PT8475 · Post by **PT8475** » 22 Jun 2014, 13:16

Ed24 wrote:
PT8475 wrote:I'm sorry but how crap are the Williams strategists?? It was fairly obvious the Mercedes would get past if they didn't pit first, and yet still they didn't... I cannot think why, the Mercedes will pull away now.

Not to mention the inconsistencies of the pitstop times.... all over the place

It seems fairly obvious to me that they needed to pit first to keep the Mercedes behind them and retain the lead of the race, and its not as if Mercedes pitted especially early, either... I can't fathom it.

More_Blue_Flags · Post by **More_Blue_Flags** » 22 Jun 2014, 13:33

Rosberg beats Hamilton, Bottas gets his first podium, Williams 3-4 ... Not as exciting a race as I expected after qualifying, but it could be a lot worse.

Ed24 · Post by **Ed24** » 22 Jun 2014, 13:36

And even if they'd given Massa the 2.1 pitstop not Bottas he could have held the lead potentially.

Shame for the 3rd podium spot to be decided by pitstop times not on track overtaking, but well done to Bottas.

good_Ralf · Post by **good_Ralf** » 22 Jun 2014, 13:37

Bottas Podium = :mrgreen:

More_Blue_Flags · Post by **More_Blue_Flags** » 22 Jun 2014, 13:42

good_Ralf wrote:Bottas Podium =

Yeah, that made it worth staring up to watch the race.

Post by **mario** » 22 Jun 2014, 13:45

PT8475 wrote:
Ed24 wrote:
PT8475 wrote:I'm sorry but how crap are the Williams strategists?? It was fairly obvious the Mercedes would get past if they didn't pit first, and yet still they didn't... I cannot think why, the Mercedes will pull away now.

Not to mention the inconsistencies of the pitstop times.... all over the place

It seems fairly obvious to me that they needed to pit first to keep the Mercedes behind them and retain the lead of the race, and its not as if Mercedes pitted especially early, either... I can't fathom it.

I guess that part of the issue was that Williams might have thought that they could eke out the first stop to minimise the issues with tyre wear they'd encountered during the practise sessions on the soft tyre, therefore gaining time back that way. Furthermore, Hamilton actually gained slightly on the supersoft tyres (only to then lose time in the pit stop), suggesting that perhaps there was still enough life left in those tyres for a slightly longer stint.

Still, at least Williams have finally taken their chances to earn a decent points haul in this race - even if they couldn't quite hold onto the Mercedes duo, they've finally picked up a podium finish (though they really should have taken more podiums this season given their potential).

SgtPepper · Post by **SgtPepper** » 22 Jun 2014, 13:46

MARK!

I've missed that aussie.

DonTirri · Post by **DonTirri** » 22 Jun 2014, 13:51

Bottas!!!!! Great race. The track is awesome.

Has Nico finally gotten the upper hand on Lewis? Seems so, atleast on the mental side of things.

As a sidenote: Can you imagine the awkwardness of the podium interviews if Vettel had won the race?

good_Ralf · Post by **good_Ralf** » 22 Jun 2014, 13:53

DonTirri wrote:Has Nico finally gotten the upper hand on Lewis? Seems so, atleast on the mental side of things.

When he shouted to the crowd in German in a very enthusiastic manner, I feel as though Nico was trying to psychologically bury Lewis, since Hamilton can't speak German (as far as I know!).

Post by **mario** » 22 Jun 2014, 14:06

good_Ralf wrote:
DonTirri wrote:Has Nico finally gotten the upper hand on Lewis? Seems so, atleast on the mental side of things.

When he shouted to the crowd in German in a very enthusiastic manner, I feel as though Nico was trying to psychologically bury Lewis, since Hamilton can't speak German (as far as I know!).

I wouldn't say he conclusively has the upper hand over him yet - judging by the radio messages and on screen information, Hamilton does still seem to have an advantage over Nico in terms of fuel management. I think that could continue to be a slight weak point for him in the coming races, and at races which are likely to be more fuel critical I think Hamilton may regain a slight edge, so I can see the initiative swinging back and forth between them for now.

The other question will be how Nico responds if and when he has a DNF - if he has his lead cut drastically or even falls behind Hamilton, it will be how he responds to that which will determine whether he really does have the psychological advantage.