The Junior Series Thread

[Londoner]

Both DAMS cars of Sainz and Gasly, plus the Fortec of Oliver Rowland, the top three in the FR3.5 standings, were stranded on the grid when the field went to do their formation lap at Moscow just now.

So wsrgo, still think Rowland is better than Alex Lynn?

[dr-baker]

In that picture, I've just noticed the name Fittipaldi ahead of the sidepod. Anything to do with the Christian/Wilson/Emerson family I wonder?

[Salamander]

In that picture, I've just noticed the name Fittipaldi ahead of the sidepod. Anything to do with the Christian/Wilson/Emerson family I wonder?

Guimaraes is supported by Emerson Fittipaldi. The 'Jesus Saves' is presumably a reference to Jesus Saves Racing, which seems to be a driver development program run by Alex Ribeiro. Judging from the Drivers' Championship so far, whatever Jesus is saving, it doesn't appear to be Guimaraes' career, since he's lodged firmly towards the bottom of the championship.

[wsrgo]

Both DAMS cars of Sainz and Gasly, plus the Fortec of Oliver Rowland, the top three in the FR3.5 standings, were stranded on the grid when the field went to do their formation lap at Moscow just now.

So wsrgo, still think Rowland is better than Alex Lynn?

Well, today was inconclusive for the most part. Not any less than Alex Lynn's incredible performances in the sprint races in GP3

[Salamander]

Well, today was inconclusive for the most part. Not any less than Alex Lynn's incredible performances in the sprint races in GP3

Yes, because he obviously didn't have some sort of problem in the Barcelona sprint race, and didn't have to pit on the first lap at Austria. Clearly.

[wsrgo]

Well, today was inconclusive for the most part. Not any less than Alex Lynn's incredible performances in the sprint races in GP3

Yes, because he obviously didn't have some sort of problem in the Barcelona sprint race, and didn't have to pit on the first lap at Austria. Clearly.

Salamander, please stop targeting me all the time will you?

[Salamander]

Well, today was inconclusive for the most part. Not any less than Alex Lynn's incredible performances in the sprint races in GP3

Yes, because he obviously didn't have some sort of problem in the Barcelona sprint race, and didn't have to pit on the first lap at Austria. Clearly.

Salamander, please stop targeting me all the time will you?

Since when am I "targeting" you? The last time I properly disagreed with you to my recollection was with Lynn and Rowland, and you instigated that. Not me.

[wsrgo]

Yes, because he obviously didn't have some sort of problem in the Barcelona sprint race, and didn't have to pit on the first lap at Austria. Clearly.

Salamander, please stop targeting me all the time will you?

Since when am I "targeting" you? The last time I properly disagreed with you to my recollection was with Lynn and Rowland, and you instigated that. Not me.

That wasn't a disagreement, you were just holding your point of view. Mr Ataxia chose to meddle in the process, it was he with whom I had the altercation, not you.

[Salamander]

Salamander, please stop targeting me all the time will you?

Since when am I "targeting" you? The last time I properly disagreed with you to my recollection was with Lynn and Rowland, and you instigated that. Not me.

That wasn't a disagreement, you were just holding your point of view. Mr Ataxia chose to meddle in the process, it was he with whom I had the altercation, not you.

Well then, I don't see the problem?

[wsrgo]

Since when am I "targeting" you? The last time I properly disagreed with you to my recollection was with Lynn and Rowland, and you instigated that. Not me.

That wasn't a disagreement, you were just holding your point of view. Mr Ataxia chose to meddle in the process, it was he with whom I had the altercation, not you.

Well then, I don't see the problem?

It's just...ever since I said that conspiracy theory thingy about Ricciardo and the stewards, people have not been treating me well. If you look back at http://f1rejects.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3366&p=302530#p302530 you'll see how Ataxia just targets me out of nowhere..I guess I've become more hyperreactive as a result.

[Backmarker]

Carlos Sainz Jr. seems pretty much guaranteed to win Formula Renault 3.5 (which will make him the first Red Bull Junior ever to do so), so I expect we'll be seeing him in Vergne's seat in 2015, if not before.

It's a lot tighter in Eurocup Formula Renault 2.0, but Nyck de Vries looks good, so potentially another young driver for McLaren to have to find a Formula One seat for in a couple of years time!

[Backmarker]

Double posting to highlight the amazing ability that is being displayed in Max Verstappen. Last year he was driving karts. This is his first season in open-wheel formula. Rather than join an low-level series like F4 or Formula Ford, or even one of the weak F3 series, he's gone straight into European F3. He has now won the last six races in F3, in what is traditionally one of the midfield teams (the son of the Boss is responsible for 93% of the team's points this season), and he's only 16.

[Nessafox]

Double posting to highlight the amazing ability that is being displayed in Max Verstappen. Last year he was driving karts. This is his first season in open-wheel formula. Rather than join an low-level series like F4 or Formula Ford, or even one of the weak F3 series, he's gone straight into European F3. He has now won the last six races in F3, in what is traditionally one of the midfield teams (the son of the Boss is responsible for 93% of the team's points this season), and he's only 16.

Kevin Magnussen better be prepared! Now seriously, he looks the real deal. Now let's hope he's not as stubborn as his father.

[dr-baker]

Double posting to highlight the amazing ability that is being displayed in Max Verstappen. Last year he was driving karts. This is his first season in open-wheel formula. Rather than join an low-level series like F4 or Formula Ford, or even one of the weak F3 series, he's gone straight into European F3. He has now won the last six races in F3, in what is traditionally one of the midfield teams (the son of the Boss is responsible for 93% of the team's points this season), and he's only 16.

Kevin Magnussen better be prepared! Now seriously, he looks the real deal. Now let's hope he's not as stubborn as his father.

Let's hope he doesn't get burnt by F1 like his father was...

[The Dutch Bear]

Double posting to highlight the amazing ability that is being displayed in Max Verstappen. Last year he was driving karts. This is his first season in open-wheel formula. Rather than join an low-level series like F4 or Formula Ford, or even one of the weak F3 series, he's gone straight into European F3. He has now won the last six races in F3, in what is traditionally one of the midfield teams (the son of the Boss is responsible for 93% of the team's points this season), and he's only 16.

Kevin Magnussen better be prepared! Now seriously, he looks the real deal. Now let's hope he's not as stubborn as his father.

If Jos Verstappen is concerned about one thing it's Max repeating the mistakes he made, so that won't be the biggest problem.
Max Verstappen is still quite some distance behind Ocon, 74 points, and the title is really Ocon's to lose.
European F3 is supposed to be a two year program for Verstappen, but he is going so well right now that may be too long.
What would be next? GP2 or Formula Renault 3.5? If not for Sauber's financial situation maybe they would be interested. Those 33 F3 races by the end of the year is more experience than they needed in the past.

[Backmarker]

If Jos Verstappen is concerned about one thing it's Max repeating the mistakes he made, so that won't be the biggest problem.
Max Verstappen is still quite some distance behind Ocon, 74 points, and the title is really Ocon's to lose.

Absolutely - and even with Verstappen's great recent form, Ocon hasn't shown any sign of slipping up really, finishing second to Verstappen in five of the seven races that Verstappen's won, and he's been pretty impressive when you consider that he's only 17 and also a Formula 3 rookie (excluding doing the Macau Grand Prix last season).

European F3 is supposed to be a two year program for Verstappen, but he is going so well right now that may be too long.
What would be next? GP2 or Formula Renault 3.5? If not for Sauber's financial situation maybe they would be interested. Those 33 F3 races by the end of the year is more experience than they needed in the past.

Hopefully Formula Renault 3.5 or GP3. At present GP2 is not the best series to be in, especially as a rookie, and it's very expensive. Hopefully Verstappen will get picked up by an F1 team soon, I wouldn't want to see him become another Frijns.

[wsrgo]

If Jos Verstappen is concerned about one thing it's Max repeating the mistakes he made, so that won't be the biggest problem.
Max Verstappen is still quite some distance behind Ocon, 74 points, and the title is really Ocon's to lose.

Absolutely - and even with Verstappen's great recent form, Ocon hasn't shown any sign of slipping up really, finishing second to Verstappen in five of the seven races that Verstappen's won, and he's been pretty impressive when you consider that he's only 17 and also a Formula 3 rookie (excluding doing the Macau Grand Prix last season).

European F3 is supposed to be a two year program for Verstappen, but he is going so well right now that may be too long.
What would be next? GP2 or Formula Renault 3.5? If not for Sauber's financial situation maybe they would be interested. Those 33 F3 races by the end of the year is more experience than they needed in the past.

Hopefully Formula Renault 3.5 or GP3. At present GP2 is not the best series to be in, especially as a rookie, and it's very expensive. Hopefully Verstappen will get picked up by an F1 team soon, I wouldn't want to see him become another Frijns.

IMO, GP3 would be a better choice. World Series of late has been nothing more but a series that reaffirms talent, so it won't be too hard for Verstappen to steamroll the opposition. GP3 on the other hand, with its sprint race concept, Pirelli tyres,, more crowded field etc. would be a challenge which would make him a more rounded driver.

[watka]

I seriously fear for GP2 as a series if someone like Vandoorne, Marciello or even Cecotto doesn't win the championship. It seems to be a graveyard of careers and expensive to run in. All of the drivers are pretty well known to F1 teams and have either been dismissed as F1 prospects or have been placed there as a testing ground which is far too easy to get lost in. Its no different to how F3000 was when it went belly up.

[Bleu]

I think it was mistake to have races at Malaysia and Singapore cost-wise. They were now dropped and the farthest races are in Bahrain and Abu Dhabi.

[dr-baker]

I seriously fear for GP2 as a series if someone like Vandoorne, Marciello or even Cecotto doesn't win the championship. It seems to be a graveyard of careers and expensive to run in. All of the drivers are pretty well known to F1 teams and have either been dismissed as F1 prospects or have been placed there as a testing ground which is far too easy to get lost in. Its no different to how F3000 was when it went belly up.

F3000 lasted for about 20 years. GP2 is currently only around half that age - about 10 years old...

[andrew2209]

The problem with GP2 is how do you fix it so talent as opposed to experience is important?

[Ataxia]

There's several ways you can look at GP2.

The first way is the most common; a very pessimistic view of the drivers is quite common and some view the series as a graveyard for those top talents. GP2 is a very hard series to make an impression in right away, since the car requires a lot of knowledge to set up correctly.

However, I'm going to argue differently. I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest that GP2 is an excellent way for drivers to develop racecraft, spatial awareness and feedback skills since it's the only way to be successful. Do the more talented drivers tend to fizzle out to an extent that nobody would touch them with a bargepole? No, because talent usually finds a way to rise to the top. It might take the likes of Vandoorne and Marciello a season or two, but there's no doubt they'd do a fantastic job in F1.

It's pointless to worry on behalf of those two drivers, since they've got backing from two of the biggest teams in the sport. Although it might end up being a bit of a waiting game, I still expect to see at least one of them in F1 in a few seasons' time. Even Jolyon Palmer's in talks with an F1 team at the moment!

To conclude, GP2 is not, in my own opinion at least, a graveyard. It's more comparable to a final exam; will you revise your bollocks off and try and squeak through first time, or will you give the exam a few tries to push the marks up a bit? Finally, like many, will you just drop the subject and do something easier? That's GP2.

[Shizuka]

It might take the likes of Vandoorne and Marciello a season or two, but there's no doubt they'd do a fantastic job in F1.

Yep - they won't get thrown out the YDP of McLaren and Ferrari respectively just a step away from F1. Both of them needs to „warm up” to get the hang of the atmosphere, the car and the races' pace. Marciello is likely to be Marussia's pick for F1 (because he still would keep the Ferrari units cheap, if Bianchi gets picked up) and Vandoorne will probably get a seat somewhere as well. However, I wouldn't promote them after a single season. They both need two years to improve, and by 2015 summer they start to be in the frame for the title, I'd say they are ready to step up.

Vandoorne's season is very up-and-down, but having scored a win and a second is a good result; Marciello also scored two decent thirds at the RB Ring.

And on a different note, do you think Nasr can work down his 33-point deficit to Palmer?

[Salamander]

And on a different note, do you think Nasr can work down his 33-point deficit to Palmer?

I think it'd be more likely that we see Johnny Cecotto work down his 41-point deficit. But it's still Palmer's to lose, unfortunately.

[Shadaza]

I have just calculated the points per race ratio across the front running drivers in GP2 history. (With points scored under the new point scheme lowered to fit those of the old.) This creates a supergrid of GP2 drivers. Note the numbers do not take into account poor luck, reliability or Teams the drivers were driving for, so it isn't a 100% indication of driver pace. Perhaps unsurprisingly Hamilton leads the standings edging out current team mate and fellow Art driver Rosberg. Hulkenberg rounds out an all Art top 3.

Kovalainen is the best driver not to have won the championship with a high 4.56.

The best driver not to make F1 is Frenchman Alexander Premat who weighs in as 8th fastest driver. His cause probably wasn't help that his team mates over his 2 GP2 seasons were Hamilton and Rosberg.

Either the teams are closer now, or the drivers are not so consistent or some other factor but none of the current GP2 drivers look set to break the top 10. The best of the most recent drivers is Sam Bird with a strong 2.8 which puts him as the 2nd best driver not to make F1, 3rd in that category is fellolw country man James Calado. Felipe Nasr is the strongest driver in the 2014 field. Despite not really being in the championship hunt yet, Vandoorne and Arthur Pic rank 2nd and 3rd in the current field as most the grid now are seasoned veterans who had rough rookie years, they seem to breaking the trend and are promising developments.

The Weakest GP2 champions are Fabio Leimer and Davide Valsecchi, rated the 27th and 28th best drivers and averaging less than 2 points per race.
Of all the drivers to race in both F1 and GP2, Sakon Yamamoto is easily the weakest, scoring only 3 points in 25 races, a low low yield of 0.14 points per race.

The numbers suggest that Kobayashi, Chilton, Ericcsson, Chandhok and Jerome D'Ambrosio should not have been promoted to F1.

Charles Pic has a slim margin over brother Arthur, but Arthur's career is young and some good results in the next few rounds could easily see him shoot up the rankings.

Jolyon Palmer may be behind Leimer and Valsecchi in the rankings, but if he keeps his metronomic point scoring up he should end up with a better ratio than them.

NOTE I did not include GP2 Asia Series results.

1 Lewis Hamilton 5.43
2 Nico Rosberg 5.22
3 Nico Hulkenberg 5
4 Heikki Kovalainen 4.56
5 Romain Grosjean 3.62
6 Timo Glock 3.48
7 Nelson Piquet JNR 3.36
8 Alexander Premat 3.02
9 Scott Speed 2.93
10 Pastor Maldonado 2.89
11 Lucas di Grassi 2.81
12 Sam Bird 2.8
13 Jules Bianchi 2.76
14 James Calado 2.76
15 Giorgio Pantano 2.68
16 Felipe Nasr 2.47
17 Bruno Senna 2.39
18 Sergio Perez 2.35
19 Giedo van der Garde 2.27
20 Stoeffel Vandorne 2.15
21 Oliver Turvey 2.14
22 Charles Pic 2.12
23 Esteban Gutierrez 2.08
24 Christian Vietoris 2.06
25 Arthur Pic 2.05
26 Kazuki Nakajima 2
27 Fabio Leimer 1.98
28 Davide Valsecchi 1.9
29 Sebastien Buemi 1.87
30 Luiz Razia 1.8
31 Adam Carroll 1.79
32 Jolyon Palmer 1.79
33 Neel Jani 1.78
34 Luca Fillipi 1.66
35 Gianmaria Bruni 1.62
36 Marcus Ericsson 1.6
37 Robin Frijns 1.57
38 Stefano Colletti 1.56
39 Alvaro Parente 1.52
40 Jose Maria Lopez 1.5
41 Tom Dillman 1.46
42 EJ Viso 1.37
43 Nicholas Lappiere 1.31
44 Dani Clos 1.3
45 Mitch Evans 1.25
46 Jon Lancaster 1.22
47 Jerome d'Ambrosio 1.22
48 Max Chilton 1.2
49 Andy Zuber 1.2
50 Stephane Richellmi 1.14
Johnny Ceccotto JR 1.02
Karun Chandhok 0.95
Kamui Kobayashi 0.58
Sakon Yamamoto 0.14

[wsrgo]

Alexander Rossi has left the Caterham operation with immediate effect. His place in the GP2 team will be filled by supersub Tom Dillmann for Hockennheim.

I wonder if Dillmann will show the world how crap Rossi was.

[Ataxia]

Alexander Rossi has left the Caterham operation with immediate effect. His place in the GP2 team will be filled by supersub Tom Dillmann for Hockennheim

Sad to see Rossi out of a drive for now, but I'm always glad when Tom has a seat. This is the second time he's been a sub at Hockenheim, having replaced De Jong at Rapax for the last time in 2012. Go Tom!

[wsrgo]

Alexander Rossi has left the Caterham operation with immediate effect. His place in the GP2 team will be filled by supersub Tom Dillmann for Hockennheim

Sad to see Rossi out of a drive for now, but I'm always glad when Tom has a seat. This is the second time he's been a sub at Hockenheim, having replaced De Jong at Rapax for the last time in 2012. Go Tom!

Forgot to clarify that since it's a double-header, Dillmann will drive for Caterham at Budapest too. As for Rossi, he has managed to get a Campos seat for Hockenheim in place of Kimiya Sato, who will be busy with Auto GP commitments this weekend.

[DemocalypseNow]

Alex Rossi is out of a drive?

[lgaquino]

Nelson Piquet Jr is so high up on that list. Better investigate

[Salamander]

Nelson Piquet Jr is so high up on that list. Better investigate

Well, he was Hamilton's title rival in 2006...

[Wallio]

Alex Rossi is out of a drive?

I don't get all the Rossi hate on this site. He won a race last year and was the better Catherham driver by a bit. Oh wait he's American........

[Ataxia]

I don't get all the Rossi hate on this site. He won a race last year and was the better Catherham driver by a bit. Oh wait he's American........

I don't hate Alex at all, I just like Tom much more. Pleased to see him get the Campos gig, because Sato's been pretty useless.

[Wallio]

I don't get all the Rossi hate on this site. He won a race last year and was the better Catherham driver by a bit. Oh wait he's American........

I don't hate Alex at all, I just like Tom much more. Pleased to see him get the Campos gig, because Sato's been pretty useless.

Wasn't directed at you personally, more the site in general. Seems Alex is a step below Vettel on the hate scale, for whatever reason.

[DemocalypseNow]

I don't get all the Rossi hate on this site. He won a race last year and was the better Catherham driver by a bit. Oh wait he's American........

Douches come in all nationalities.

[Salamander]

Wasn't directed at you personally, more the site in general. Seems Alex is a step below Vettel on the hate scale, for whatever reason.

Care to back that up with any evidence?

Also, for the record, I don't hate Rossi, I just don't think he is anything special. Conor Daly, on the other hand...

[Wallio]

Wasn't directed at you personally, more the site in general. Seems Alex is a step below Vettel on the hate scale, for whatever reason.

Care to back that up with any evidence?

Also, for the record, I don't hate Rossi, I just don't think he is anything special. Conor Daly, on the other hand...

Scroll through this whole thread. And the Catheram one. Hell the post above yours resorts to name calling. But Rossi's teammate, whom he's beaten consistently, gets a pass. I don't get it.

[DemocalypseNow]

I don't get it.

Then let me break it down for you.

Is Rossi good as a racing driver? I don't really know, and I don't care much. But I've had the unfortunate experience of interacting with him on a personal level. He is not a pleasant human being.

[Wallio]

I don't get it.

Then let me break it down for you.

Is Rossi good as a racing driver? I don't really know, and I don't care much. But I've had the unfortunate experience of interacting with him on a personal level. He is not a pleasant human being.

Well that's one answer anyway. Having never met the man, I can't say either way. But fair enough. Was that so hard to explain?

[Salamander]

So, the GP2 order has been turned on it's head in practice. Both the Lazarus kekwagons outpaced both Carlins and both DAMS', who apparently forgot to bring their epic speed hax setup this weekend. Racing Engineering looks strong, with Coletti fastest and Marciello 3rd fastest.