Your Reject of the Race - Germany

CoopsII · Post by **CoopsII** » 21 Jul 2014, 08:43

BigG80 wrote:Coops, I remember the old track fondly but there is no denying the new one is better. Yes it is a shame that it meant killing a unique old track but the new one gives great racing and exciting races.

It was a great race yesterday, no question about it.

But the old track would've been better

Salamander · Post by **Salamander** » 21 Jul 2014, 09:45

CoopsII wrote:
BigG80 wrote:Coops, I remember the old track fondly but there is no denying the new one is better. Yes it is a shame that it meant killing a unique old track but the new one gives great racing and exciting races.

It was a great race yesterday, no question about it.

But the old track would've been better

Unless you're a Hamilton fan who enjoys seeing him breeze through the field without a fight, or like looking at trees, I'm having trouble seeing how it would be better.

Yannick · Post by **Yannick** » 21 Jul 2014, 09:47

Motorsport-Total ran an article today in which it stated the F1 GP at Hockenheim hat just 52,000 spectators whereas the Truck GP at the Nürburgring counted 200,000.

Depending on Enoch's preferences, there may or may not be an Award in there somewhere.

CoopsII · Post by **CoopsII** » 21 Jul 2014, 09:58

Salamander wrote:Unless you're a Hamilton fan who enjoys seeing him breeze through the field without a fight, or like looking at trees, I'm having trouble seeing how it would be better.

Mostly I'm just a moaning old twat who thinks of the 'old days' as better because I was, of course, younger and things like F1 were newer. With the new layout producing great racing it does validate its existence but there remains a part of me that wishes the old straights could've been incorporated or that with the new regs the old track could've produced equally good racing. We'll never know and I guess you have to draw the line somewhere on the past.

Anyway, who doesnt like trees?

Fetzie · Post by **Fetzie** » 21 Jul 2014, 11:13

Felipe Massa - not for the crash itself (I reckon it was just a racing accident and sometimes shite happens), but for how he handled the aftermath of it.

More_Blue_Flags · Post by **More_Blue_Flags** » 21 Jul 2014, 12:18

Dishonorable mention first:

tommykl wrote:Regarding Massa, I'm really starting to find him less likable these days. Not because of the constant crashing (while Massa does definitely get most of the blame here, he probably couldn't see Magnussen, and it's not like he turned into him deliberately), but rather because of the way he reacts to it. Even if he was completely blameless both at Montréal and Hockenheim (which he wasn't, he was partly responsible in Canada as well), endlessly complaining about the other driver involved is not the way to react.

As far as the Magnussen-Massa first corner crash itself goes, I am inclined to give Massa the benefit of the doubt, but I agree with tommykl that the constant whining and complete absence of self-reflection after each incident (did he ever apologize for slandering Kobayashi after Melbourne?) is pretty rejectful.

Race control gets my vote, though, not so much for leaving Sutil's car out without deploying the safety car (I can be persuaded that was a reasonable risk), but for a poorly coordinated and potentially dangerous response by the marshals. It's not as though there's a lack of experience in running motorsport events in Germany to blame, either.

More_Blue_Flags · Post by **More_Blue_Flags** » 21 Jul 2014, 12:25

CoopsII wrote:
Salamander wrote:Unless you're a Hamilton fan who enjoys seeing him breeze through the field without a fight, or like looking at trees, I'm having trouble seeing how it would be better.

Mostly I'm just a moaning old twat who thinks of the 'old days' as better because I was, of course, younger and things like F1 were newer. With the new layout producing great racing it does validate its existence but there remains a part of me that wishes the old straights could've been incorporated or that with the new regs the old track could've produced equally good racing. We'll never know and I guess you have to draw the line somewhere on the past.

Anyway, who doesnt like trees?

I've always been a bit ambivalent about the old Hockenheim - my earliest memories of Hockenheim are of turbo Renaults and Ferrari's completely outclassing my beloved Cosworth-powered garargistas rather than of close, exciting racing. I would agree with Salamander that on the old Hockenheim nobody would have been able to touch either Mercedes yesterday, and, to be honest, the new Hockenheim is actually pretty good for a Tilkedrome.

watka · Post by **watka** » 21 Jul 2014, 12:39

There were a few minor nominees going through my head;
Caterham for beginning to look like they no longer give a damn, especially with all of Ericsson's issues.
General clumsiness of the overtaking, e.g. Kimi getting bashed around like a pinball. It seemed only Ricciardo made clean passes and even he was pushing it.

Sutil has another poor weekend when his job appears to be on the line, but as his spin was a technical failure I will give him a reprieve, especially as Gutierrez was just as bad as him.

So naturally that leaves Race Control to take my nomination. I am of the opinion that a safety car was necessary as marshals needed to cross the track at the exit of a corner (therefore ongoing drivers could be blind to them or would otherwise have far less reaction time) and that it wouldn't have taken 3 laps to move the Sauber if it were for a safety car.

DanielPT · Post by **DanielPT** » 21 Jul 2014, 14:14

I will give the award to the Race Control, not for not triggering the safety car but for allowing the Marshalls from the outside of the track to run across the racing line instead of waiting for those who were already running along the pitlane to get the Sauber.

Alextrax52 · Post by **Alextrax52** » 21 Jul 2014, 16:27

I'll just do my nominations now (and Hungary's too this Sunday) before I leave

There are only 2 in my eyes. 1 is DRS` the sight of Hamilton waving at Button on the straight while passing him tells you how easy it was here

The other goes to Hamilton as I thought he was far far too aggressive in some of his passes. He could have taken both himself and others out with the moves he pulled

Barbazza · Post by **Barbazza** » 21 Jul 2014, 16:55

mario wrote:I personally am not always comfortable with the argument that "it was done in the past, so it is OK" - there were many things that were deemed acceptable at the time that we would not accept now in terms of car and track design and the quality of medical care.

Whilst it did happen, even at the time many felt that it was a sign of poor marshalling for cars to be left on the racetrack for the whole race - don't forget that Regazzoni took legal action against the organisers of the race at Long Beach on grounds of negligence after he suffered from a brake failure, struck a broken down car and ended up with spinal injuries that left him paralysed from the waist down in 1980.

Besides, the bigger concern for me is the fact that marshals were being ordered to cross the track in order to attend to the car - that is something that is normally strongly discouraged because of the risk of drivers striking a marshal, and by the looks of things there should have been marshals on the pit wall who would perhaps have been better placed to attend to the car. In a situation like that, it is the marshals who are much more exposed than the drivers and, sadly, more likely to be injured, and I don't feel that their welfare was being considered.

I wasn't expecting any mass agreement with me on that one to be honest!

While I'm not advocating all-out silliness (or, god forbid, another Kyalami 1977 type incident) I do think that there should be some trust in the marshals to do their job. Although it was a bit strange that they didn't wait for the marshals from the pit wall to get there, I would assume that the German marshals would be amongst the most professional and therefore not likely to take risks.

I just think that it was refreshing that when the safety car seems to get called for the slightest bit of debris on the track now, that there was a bit of restraint applied here. Though I do agree with the argument that there was too long a period of inactivity where neither the safety car being called nor removal of the car was taking place.

wsrgo · Post by **wsrgo** » 21 Jul 2014, 18:09

Freeze-O-Kimi wrote:I'll just do my nominations now (and Hungary's too this Sunday) before I leave

There are only 2 in my eyes. 1 is DRS` the sight of Hamilton waving at Button on the straight while passing him tells you how easy it was here

The other goes to Hamilton as I thought he was far far too aggressive in some of his passes. He could have taken both himself and others out with the moves he pulled

Going somewhere?

good_Ralf · Post by **good_Ralf** » 21 Jul 2014, 18:17

wsrgo wrote:
Freeze-O-Kimi wrote:I'll just do my nominations now (and Hungary's too this Sunday) before I leave

There are only 2 in my eyes. 1 is DRS` the sight of Hamilton waving at Button on the straight while passing him tells you how easy it was here

The other goes to Hamilton as I thought he was far far too aggressive in some of his passes. He could have taken both himself and others out with the moves he pulled

Going somewhere?

Check the Nipping Out For A While Thread in the PMMF.

BigG80 · Post by **BigG80** » 21 Jul 2014, 18:18

Freeze-O-Kimi wrote:I'll just do my nominations now (and Hungary's too this Sunday) before I leave

There are only 2 in my eyes. 1 is DRS` the sight of Hamilton waving at Button on the straight while passing him tells you how easy it was here

The other goes to Hamilton as I thought he was far far too aggressive in some of his passes. He could have taken both himself and others out with the moves he pulled

Erm right so lets get this straight. You are ok with a driver doing a one handed overtake into the same place on the same track as long as he isn't using DRS? And if you don't understand that I refer you back to Hockenheim 2004 when Button one handedly overtakes Alonso.

And you also think that the other most rejectful thing in the whole race was that Hamilton was a bit aggresive on his overtakes? And that is more rejectful than Raikkonen being lapped again in the Ferrari, than Race Control not managing the Sutil incident correctly, than Kvyat's car catching fire, than Grosjean's car failing yet again, than Grosjean's pronunciation of the word power...he says "poo-er" which was quite funny...but no, none of that is rejectful to you? Amazing.

good_Ralf · Post by **good_Ralf** » 21 Jul 2014, 18:22

BigG80 wrote:
Freeze-O-Kimi wrote:I'll just do my nominations now (and Hungary's too this Sunday) before I leave

There are only 2 in my eyes. 1 is DRS` the sight of Hamilton waving at Button on the straight while passing him tells you how easy it was here

The other goes to Hamilton as I thought he was far far too aggressive in some of his passes. He could have taken both himself and others out with the moves he pulled

Erm right so lets get this straight. You are ok with a driver doing a one handed overtake into the same place on the same track as long as he isn't using DRS? And if you don't understand that I refer you back to Hockenheim 2004 when Button one handedly overtakes Alonso.

And you also think that the other most rejectful thing in the whole race was that Hamilton was a bit aggresive on his overtakes? And that is more rejectful than Raikkonen being lapped again in the Ferrari, than Race Control not managing the Sutil incident correctly, than Kvyat's car catching fire, than Grosjean's car failing yet again, than Grosjean's pronunciation of the word power...he says "poo-er" which was quite funny...but no, none of that is rejectful to you? Amazing.

No offense to Freeze-O-Kimi but he stated after the British GP -

Freeze-O-Kimi wrote:I dislike Hamilton as much as SgtPepper dislikes Vettel.

DOSBoot · Post by **DOSBoot** » 21 Jul 2014, 18:59

1. The Stewards: The way they just left Sutil's car out in the track like that is just inexcusable.

2. Massa: Was not keeping his eyes out when it mattered most, and blamed the rookie for it.

Post by **mario** » 21 Jul 2014, 19:49

Yannick wrote:Motorsport-Total ran an article today in which it stated the F1 GP at Hockenheim hat just 52,000 spectators whereas the Truck GP at the Nürburgring counted 200,000.

Depending on Enoch's preferences, there may or may not be an Award in there somewhere.

The German GP has had terrible attendance figures for years though - I believe that the attendance figures started sliding from around 2004 onwards once Schumacher's dominance came to an end, and although his comeback did briefly lift sales, it couldn't overturn the long term downward trend.

AndreaModa · Post by **AndreaModa** » 21 Jul 2014, 20:17

One thing I note with Hockenheim is the seeming lack of decent general admission viewing areas. The stadium section is just that - a massive stadium so you're either in there or not at all, and then you have the Mercedes grandstand in the new twisty section, and I think I saw a half-empty stand point towards the hairpin on the inside of the track as well.

You would have thought viewing around the hairpin would be at a premium, as would the Turn 2/3 complex but it looks like there's hardly anyone round there! Is it a case of a lack of access, or do the Germans really not buy into the idea of a general admission ticket in the same style as the ones at Silverstone? At the British GP there were noticeable empty areas in the Club curved stand which was one of the most expensive, and the open stand that looks up to the front straight at Abbey was virtually empty for the whole of Sunday. It's obvious that the majority of people at Silverstone are there on the general admission ticket because it is by far the cheapest and most flexible - when you have a grandstand seat you feel the need to justify the cost and use it, which consigns you to a hard plastic chair for hours on end. It seems to me that perhaps this is the case with Hockenheim, that the Germans really don't fancy being parked on a lump of plastic in the blazing sun all day and would rather have the freedom to choose where they want to sit, pay less for it in the process and do things their own way.

Dj_bereta · Post by **Dj_bereta** » 21 Jul 2014, 20:58

Race control hands down. I understand the fear of influencing a result due a safety car, but SAFETY MUST BE THE PRIORITY! We could had see a repeat of 1977 South African Grand Prix tragedy.

Special Mention:

Massa: Not only because of the crash, but for the comments after this. Blaming Magnussen, saying he was in front when the danish hit him. Also:

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/115077

He is the driver who got involved in the most accidents in this year and he is asking for young driver to "calm down"!? Go home Massa! With that car, Maldonado would scored more points. Bottas is the first driver of Williams now!

Brazilian TV coverage: For blaming Magnussen just after the crash (at least, Barrichello said it was a race incident). Then, spend the first half of the race talking only about Massa and the crash (and saying Massa is so unlucky and Bottas had problems only in Monaco). When Massa started to give interview for Brazilian reporter, they cut the transmission of the race for 3 Laps for showing Massa's interview!!! Not only this, the main narrator make a lot of mistakes, most notable mistakes with drivers (i.e mistaking the battle of Perez and Button with Hamilton and Gutierrez).

bsoyuz · Post by **bsoyuz** » 21 Jul 2014, 21:20

Dj_bereta wrote:Race control hands down. I understand the fear of influencing a result due a safety car, but SAFETY MUST BE THE PRIORITY! We could had see a repeat of 1977 South African Grand Prix tragedy.

Special Mention:

Massa: Not only because of the crash, but for the comments after this. Blaming Magnussen, saying he was in front. Also:

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/115077

He is the driver who got involved in the most accidents in this year and he is asking for young driver to "calm down"!? Go home Massa! With that car, Maldonado would scored more points. Bottas is the first driver of Williams now!

Brazilian TV coverage: For blaming Magnussen just after the crash (at least, Barrichello said it was a race incident). Then, spend the first half of the race talking only about Massa and the crash (and saying Massa is so unlucky and Bottas had problems only in Monaco). When Massa started to give interview for Brazilian reporter, they cut the transmission of the race for 3 Laps for showing Massa's interview!!! Not only this, the main narrator make a lot of mistakes, most notable mistakes with drivers (i.e mistaking the battle of Perez and Button with Hamilton and Gutierrez).

Well, if it was Galvão Bueno, I'm not surprised....................

Dj_bereta · Post by **Dj_bereta** » 21 Jul 2014, 21:27

bsoyuz wrote:
Dj_bereta wrote:Race control hands down. I understand the fear of influencing a result due a safety car, but SAFETY MUST BE THE PRIORITY! We could had see a repeat of 1977 South African Grand Prix tragedy.

Special Mention:

Massa: Not only because of the crash, but for the comments after this. Blaming Magnussen, saying he was in front. Also:

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/115077

He is the driver who got involved in the most accidents in this year and he is asking for young driver to "calm down"!? Go home Massa! With that car, Maldonado would scored more points. Bottas is the first driver of Williams now!

Brazilian TV coverage: For blaming Magnussen just after the crash (at least, Barrichello said it was a race incident). Then, spend the first half of the race talking only about Massa and the crash (and saying Massa is so unlucky and Bottas had problems only in Monaco). When Massa started to give interview for Brazilian reporter, they cut the transmission of the race for 3 Laps for showing Massa's interview!!! Not only this, the main narrator make a lot of mistakes, most notable mistakes with drivers (i.e mistaking the battle of Perez and Button with Hamilton and Gutierrez).

Well, if it was Galvão Bueno, I'm not surprised....................

Yes. It was Galvão.

Aerospeed · Post by **Aerospeed** » 22 Jul 2014, 00:38

How can someone mistake Perez for Gutierrez????? Galvao earns my nomination for that

bsoyuz · Post by **bsoyuz** » 22 Jul 2014, 15:08

Aerospeed wrote:How can someone mistake Perez for Gutierrez????? Galvao earns my nomination for that

Well, he's the person that called the Circuit de Monaco's Boulevard Albert 1er of "reta curva (straight turn)"

Wallio · Post by **Wallio** » 22 Jul 2014, 15:46

Massa. He chalks up another DNF (not his fault, but the result is the same nonetheless), then goes on another crybaby spree not seen since Hamilton in 2010. All while his teammate continues to podium every damn race.

Not a good look Felipe......

Klon · Post by **Klon** » 22 Jul 2014, 16:20

No contest, really. Anyone who gives ROTR to anyone else but whomever decided that Sutil's incident did not warrant a SC is wrong. This is a bad flashback to the lacking safety of the 80s and people's lives were risked unneccesarily.

Barbazza · Post by **Barbazza** » 22 Jul 2014, 20:56

OK, apparently I am wrong. Thanks for the clarification.

Happy to be reject of the race Klon - the fact that I wasn't driving in it makes it the closest to an F1 car I will ever get!

eytl · Post by **eytl** » 23 Jul 2014, 13:15

Since it's only a week between Germany and Hungary, time for the official decision.

No stand-out candidate this time, disappointingly. In the end I've agreed with many of you and gone for Race Control (as opposed to the stewards). In recent times it seems clear that Charlie Whiting and his cohorts in race control have tried to reduce the impression that F1 was turning into a nanny state. Hence the directive to the stewards to go easy on collisions instead of handing out penalties like they were going out of fashion - which was a step in the right direction. But they haven't found the right balance. For example, the race control directive on track limits in Austria and Britain were actually welcome developments, even if it led to Vettel and Alonso's stupid radio wars at Silverstone, because for too long drivers have been abusing the track limits in recent times. Then all of a sudden they went soft at Hockenheim ... why?

But I agree with many of you, the incident with Sutil's stranded car certainly takes the cake. In fact, I was already mildly surprised that the safety car wasn't called when bits of front wing started littering the turn 4 hairpin - that kind of stuff has been enough to bring out the SC in the past. But when you have a car that's perpendicular to the track, with the marshals clearly not attending to it quickly, then surely it's time to deploy the SC. I concur that the sight of marshals having to run across the track is not something we want to see. Imagine if one of them fell like the clumsy Canadian a few years back.

At this rate, Bernd Maylander might as well start looking for alternative employment.

Post by **DemocalypseNow** » 23 Jul 2014, 16:03

Dj_bereta wrote:Not only this, the main narrator make a lot of mistakes, most notable mistakes with drivers (i.e mistaking the battle of Perez and Button with Hamilton and Gutierrez).

You can't give an ROTR for that, Galvão does this at every race every year!

I remember one gem where he said, with a name like his, Scott Speed was going to be a future world champion :lol:

bsoyuz · Post by **bsoyuz** » 23 Jul 2014, 16:16

Biscione wrote:
Dj_bereta wrote:Not only this, the main narrator make a lot of mistakes, most notable mistakes with drivers (i.e mistaking the battle of Perez and Button with Hamilton and Gutierrez).

You can't give an ROTR for that, Galvão does this at every race every year!

I remember one gem where he said, with a name like his, Scott Speed was going to be a future world champion

Even with all those errors that he made, It's a shame that he's retiring at the end of the year. He used to make F1 fun to watch.

takagi_for_the_win · Post by **takagi_for_the_win** » 23 Jul 2014, 18:42

good_Ralf wrote:
BigG80 wrote:
Freeze-O-Kimi wrote:I'll just do my nominations now (and Hungary's too this Sunday) before I leave

There are only 2 in my eyes. 1 is DRS` the sight of Hamilton waving at Button on the straight while passing him tells you how easy it was here

The other goes to Hamilton as I thought he was far far too aggressive in some of his passes. He could have taken both himself and others out with the moves he pulled

Erm right so lets get this straight. You are ok with a driver doing a one handed overtake into the same place on the same track as long as he isn't using DRS? And if you don't understand that I refer you back to Hockenheim 2004 when Button one handedly overtakes Alonso.

And you also think that the other most rejectful thing in the whole race was that Hamilton was a bit aggresive on his overtakes? And that is more rejectful than Raikkonen being lapped again in the Ferrari, than Race Control not managing the Sutil incident correctly, than Kvyat's car catching fire, than Grosjean's car failing yet again, than Grosjean's pronunciation of the word power...he says "poo-er" which was quite funny...but no, none of that is rejectful to you? Amazing.

No offense to Freeze-O-Kimi but he stated after the British GP -

Freeze-O-Kimi wrote:I dislike Hamilton as much as SgtPepper dislikes Vettel.

There's disliking a driver and then there's being plain stupid. Starts from pitlane, finishes 3rd, still nominated for ROTR. Quite a lot of one-eyed bias there methinks.

Dj_bereta · Post by **Dj_bereta** » 23 Jul 2014, 19:46

bsoyuz wrote:
Biscione wrote:
Dj_bereta wrote:Not only this, the main narrator make a lot of mistakes, most notable mistakes with drivers (i.e mistaking the battle of Perez and Button with Hamilton and Gutierrez).

You can't give an ROTR for that, Galvão does this at every race every year!

I remember one gem where he said, with a name like his, Scott Speed was going to be a future world champion

Even with all those errors that he made, It's a shame that he's retiring at the end of the year. He used to make F1 fun to watch.

Yeah, I know nominating Galvao for ROTR is the same of nominating Sauber every race, but its fun to nominate him.

Also, Galvao gave up of retiring until 2019.

Yeah, more 5 years of the "curve straight" of monaco, more 5 years of mistake Raikkonen with Hakkinen, more 5 years bashing Caterham and Marussia.

dr-baker · Post by **dr-baker** » 23 Jul 2014, 19:53

Dj_bereta wrote: more 5 years bashing Caterham and Marussia.

For 5 more years of bashing Caterham and Marussia, you used the wrong smilie. You wanted :evil:

for that...

bsoyuz · Post by **bsoyuz** » 23 Jul 2014, 19:53

Dj_bereta wrote:
Yeah, I know nominating Galvao for ROTR is the same of nominating Sauber every race, but its fun to nominate him. Also, Galvao gave up of retiring until 2019.

Yeah, more 5 years of the "curve straight" of monaco, more 5 years of mistake Raikkonen with Hakkinen, more 5 years bashing Caterham and Marussia.

Post by **DemocalypseNow** » 24 Jul 2014, 10:00

Dj_bereta wrote:Yeah, I know nominating Galvao for ROTR is the same of nominating Sauber every race, but its fun to nominate him. Also, Galvao gave up of retiring until 2019.

Yeah, more 5 years of the "curve straight" of monaco, more 5 years of mistake Raikkonen with Hakkinen, more 5 years bashing Caterham and Marussia.

I don't believe what he's saying at all. After the 2018 World Cup, he will say he wants to continue until 2023!

Alextrax52 · Post by **Alextrax52** » 24 Jul 2014, 14:57

BigG80 wrote:
Freeze-O-Kimi wrote:I'll just do my nominations now (and Hungary's too this Sunday) before I leave

There are only 2 in my eyes. 1 is DRS` the sight of Hamilton waving at Button on the straight while passing him tells you how easy it was here

The other goes to Hamilton as I thought he was far far too aggressive in some of his passes. He could have taken both himself and others out with the moves he pulled

Erm right so lets get this straight. You are ok with a driver doing a one handed overtake into the same place on the same track as long as he isn't using DRS? And if you don't understand that I refer you back to Hockenheim 2004 when Button one handedly overtakes Alonso.

And you also think that the other most rejectful thing in the whole race was that Hamilton was a bit aggresive on his overtakes? And that is more rejectful than Raikkonen being lapped again in the Ferrari, than Race Control not managing the Sutil incident correctly, than Kvyat's car catching fire, than Grosjean's car failing yet again, than Grosjean's pronunciation of the word power...he says "poo-er" which was quite funny...but no, none of that is rejectful to you? Amazing.

Most of those are boring though. Raikkonen's struggles don't surprise me neither does the unreliability of Toro Rosso and Lotus. Whereas it's been a while since I've seen moves like that from Hamilton.

My point is that the fact that Hamilton could use DRS to pass Button while waving sorry at him summed up how easy the DRS was to use in this race. Cars were just breezing past each other with ease note Hamilton on Perez. This is another nail in the DRS coffin

good_Ralf wrote:No offense to Freeze-O-Kimi but he stated after the British GP -

Freeze-O-Kimi wrote:I dislike Hamilton as much as SgtPepper dislikes Vettel.

No offense? NO OFFENSE? You honestly think I've nominated Hamilton based on a dislike for him? The amount of times he could have taken both himself and other drivers out of the race made me want to nominate him. Besides didn't someone nominate Button for ROTR in Canada 2011 even thought he won the race and in some style because he took Alonso off?

Post by **Ataxia** » 24 Jul 2014, 15:11

Freeze-O-Kimi wrote:
good_Ralf wrote:No offense to Freeze-O-Kimi but he stated after the British GP -

Freeze-O-Kimi wrote:I dislike Hamilton as much as SgtPepper dislikes Vettel.

No offense? NO OFFENSE? You honestly think I've nominated Hamilton based on a dislike for him? The amount of times he could have taken both himself and other drivers out of the race made me want to nominate him. Besides didn't someone nominate Button for ROTR in Canada 2011 even thought he won the race and in some style because he took Alonso off?

Does that make it right, though?

Let's be honest, although your biases may not have been wholly responsible for your vote, it's certainly clouded your judgement. Had Vettel or Button or someone done what Hamilton did, would you still nominate them?

Freeze-O-Kimi wrote:
My point is that the fact that Hamilton could use DRS to pass Button while waving sorry at him summed up how easy the DRS was to use in this race. Cars were just breezing past each other with ease note Hamilton on Perez. This is another nail in the DRS coffin

...because it enables passing? What do you expect them to do in the race, not use it? DRS is no worse than the former KERS boosts that drivers could expect to receive each lap, but because it's a simple aerodynamic device rather than a more complex engineering solution it takes much more flak. If somebody came up with the concept in the 1980s, people in rose-tinted glasses would be drooling over it.

LukeB · Post by **LukeB** » 24 Jul 2014, 15:24

CoopsII wrote:The new circuit layout - I'm old therefore I moan.

You and me man, we're like this *crosses fingers*

Also I stopped watching F1 for a few years so I'm not up to speed, but does every ROTR thread now descend into bickering or is this a recent thing?

Post by **Londoner** » 24 Jul 2014, 15:26

Freeze-O-Kimi wrote:
No offense? NO OFFENSE? You honestly think I've nominated Hamilton based on a dislike for him? The amount of times he could have taken both himself and other drivers out of the race made me want to nominate him. Besides didn't someone nominate Button for ROTR in Canada 2011 even thought he won the race and in some style because he took Alonso off?

But Canada 2011 was one of those mad races where you could've made a reasonable case to nominate every single driver who started that race bar Vitaly Petrov. Hell, until the last 10 laps, Button was easily a prime candidate for ROTR, and this is coming from a Button fan. :lol:

DanielPT · Post by **DanielPT** » 24 Jul 2014, 15:47

LukeB wrote:Also I stopped watching F1 for a few years so I'm not up to speed, but does every ROTR thread now descend into bickering or is this a recent thing?

You should have seen the days of who opens the thread and when, now that was bickering!

Seriously though, and to answer your question, some of the times it degenerates, yes.

pi314159 · Post by **pi314159** » 24 Jul 2014, 16:49

Ataxia wrote:...because it enables passing? What do you expect them to do in the race, not use it? DRS is no worse than the former KERS boosts that drivers could expect to receive each lap, but because it's a simple aerodynamic device rather than a more complex engineering solution it takes much more flak. If somebody came up with the concept in the 1980s, people in rose-tinted glasses would be drooling over it.

Comparing KERS and DRS doesn't work. KERS, in its very limited 2011 verson, was a pathetic attmept to make F1 appear "green". It could be used in an overtaking attempt, but the car ahead could use it as well, so it was the same for both cars involved in a fight for a position. DRS meanwhile is the most blatant way to increase overtaking, and while it may have fulfilled that goal, with the "one second behind"-rule, it is clearly artificial and unfair towards the defending driver.

While it would still be artificial, DRS would be much more bearable if it was like the push-to-pass button in IndyCar - every driver, regardless of his position, gets a limited amount of DRS uses during the race.