The Caterham Thread

GwilymJJames · Post by **GwilymJJames** » 04 Jul 2014, 10:04

Hang on. Hang on.

Weren't Qadbak meant to be Swiss and Middle Eastern?

Post by **DemocalypseNow** » 04 Jul 2014, 10:51

GwilymJJames wrote:Hang on. Hang on.

Weren't Qadbak meant to be Swiss and Middle Eastern?

I think the idea was they were meant to be, when in fact it was one Englishman on his own trying to con Sauber, and in reality there were no such investors in existence.

It sounds like these investors might actually just exist, but they just won't bother to invest anything

dinizintheoven · Post by **dinizintheoven** » 06 Jul 2014, 12:57

If that business about Dany Bahar being an investor in Caterham turns out to be true, guess who called it?

Post by **Ataxia** » 08 Jul 2014, 18:57

Colin Kolles still remains committed to the Forza Rossa operation, and refuted claims that he would asset-strip Caterham.

AndreaModa · Post by **AndreaModa** » 08 Jul 2014, 22:30

Anyone else aside from me notice how the Airbus logos disappeared from the car between Friday and Saturday at Silverstone? Obviously a legacy of a contra deal Fernandes had to get a discount on some planes I suspect. The Dell/Intel partnership is still there though and the Silanna logos are now on the engine cover as well as the front wing endplate. Not much else on there though unfortunately...

Shizuka · Post by **Shizuka** » 09 Jul 2014, 05:37

And the rear wing was empty from Saturday, as you correctly guessed it, due to the lack of Airbus logo.

AndreaModa · Post by **AndreaModa** » 15 Jul 2014, 19:46

Rumours going round Twitter earlier saying that 50 staff were apparently laid off at the Caterham factory today...

Post by **DemocalypseNow** » 15 Jul 2014, 22:49

AndreaModa wrote:Rumours going round Twitter earlier saying that 50 staff were apparently laid off at the Caterham factory today...

Standard Kolles strategy. Slimline and outsource where possible. He could probably run Air Asia better than Tony Fernandes too, he's so good at implementing cost-cutting measures.

Wallio · Post by **Wallio** » 16 Jul 2014, 14:41

http://motorsportstalk.nbcsports.com/20 ... part-ways/

Rossi out, is going to drive for Campos this weekend. Hopefully this means Haas called......

Post by **mario** » 16 Jul 2014, 20:42

AndreaModa wrote:Rumours going round Twitter earlier saying that 50 staff were apparently laid off at the Caterham factory today...

It sounds as if the rumours coming in via Twitter were on the money, as the BBC are reporting that "more than 40" people have been laid off by Caterham - it's also notable that most of those being laid off are the most expensive members of staff, such as the Deputy Technical Director Jody Eggington and their Head of Track Operations, Gerry Hughes.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/28327774

Wallio wrote:http://motorsportstalk.nbcsports.com/2014/07/16/alexander-rossi-caterham-part-ways/

Rossi out, is going to drive for Campos this weekend. Hopefully this means Haas called......

It's probably better to walk rather than be pushed, since I expect that Kolles would have either pressurised Rossi to bring in more money or sold his position to the highest bidder.

Biscione wrote:Standard Kolles strategy. Slimline and outsource where possible. He could probably run Air Asia better than Tony Fernandes too, he's so good at implementing cost-cutting measures.

The issue with Kolles is that, whilst he does run a team on a very slim workforce, there is also a sense that he doesn't really do much more for a team than simply keep it going. I've never got the impression that Kolles is the sort of figure who can help build a team up in the way that, for example, Force India were able to move from being a backmarker to a solid midfield team.

Klon · Post by **Klon** » 17 Jul 2014, 00:59

mario wrote:
Biscione wrote:Standard Kolles strategy. Slimline and outsource where possible. He could probably run Air Asia better than Tony Fernandes too, he's so good at implementing cost-cutting measures.

The issue with Kolles is that, whilst he does run a team on a very slim workforce, there is also a sense that he doesn't really do much more for a team than simply keep it going. I've never got the impression that Kolles is the sort of figure who can help build a team up in the way that, for example, Force India were able to move from being a backmarker to a solid midfield team.

Admittedly, though, I find that rather unfair. The simple fact of the matter is that Kolles is hardly given the amount of funding Force India had at their disposal in their early years. The teams Kolles gets tend to have one, and only one, immediate goal: survival. Once he has achieved that, he is getting ahead, just look at HRT in late 2011, early 2012 - he wasn't with them anymore, but obviously the effect of his work was still felt - which were looking like the only one out of the bottom three teams that actually were making (admittedly baby) steps forward. Give him appropriate money and I think he could get a team ahead sooner or later.

Nessafox · Post by **Nessafox** » 17 Jul 2014, 01:19

Klon wrote:
mario wrote:
Biscione wrote:Standard Kolles strategy. Slimline and outsource where possible. He could probably run Air Asia better than Tony Fernandes too, he's so good at implementing cost-cutting measures.

The issue with Kolles is that, whilst he does run a team on a very slim workforce, there is also a sense that he doesn't really do much more for a team than simply keep it going. I've never got the impression that Kolles is the sort of figure who can help build a team up in the way that, for example, Force India were able to move from being a backmarker to a solid midfield team.

Admittedly, though, I find that rather unfair. The simple fact of the matter is that Kolles is hardly given the amount of funding Force India had at their disposal in their early years. The teams Kolles gets tend to have one, and only one, immediate goal: survival. Once he has achieved that, he is getting ahead, just look at HRT in late 2011, early 2012 - he wasn't with them anymore, but obviously the effect of his work was still felt - which were looking like the only one out of the bottom three teams that actually were making (admittedly baby) steps forward. Give him appropriate money and I think he could get a team ahead sooner or later.

Of course, the main reason he's been chosen is obviously because Caterham can't give him appropriate money.

Post by **Ataxia** » 22 Jul 2014, 11:36

Having taken on Nathanael Berthon, Caterham are further expanding their development portfolio. Have they picked up a future gem like Esteban Ocon or Max Verstappen, or even looked back further? Erm, not quite...

watka · Post by **watka** » 22 Jul 2014, 12:30

Ataxia wrote:Having taken on Nathanael Berthon, Caterham are further expanding their development portfolio. Have they picked up a future gem like Esteban Ocon or Max Verstappen, or even looked back further? Erm, not quite...

"Giovesi is currently in his second season of Auto GP - a series won by Felipe Massa and Romain Grosjean in previous years" - yes, but the likes of Pal Varhaug have managed to finish second in that series before.

Salamander · Post by **Salamander** » 22 Jul 2014, 13:10

watka wrote:
Ataxia wrote:Having taken on Nathanael Berthon, Caterham are further expanding their development portfolio. Have they picked up a future gem like Esteban Ocon or Max Verstappen, or even looked back further? Erm, not quite...

"Giovesi is currently in his second season of Auto GP - a series won by Felipe Massa and Romain Grosjean in previous years" - yes, but the likes of Pal Varhaug have managed to finish second in that series before.

Kimiya Sato is currently destroying everyone in that series, despite missing a weekend. He did that because he's also been competing in GP2, until last weekend. He didn't score a single point.

Post by **DemocalypseNow** » 23 Jul 2014, 11:09

Berthon, Giovesi join Caterham Bank Balance Development Programme

Are we really surprised? Look at the test/young drivers from Kolles' Midland days; Roman Rusinov, Giorgio Mondini, Ernesto Viso, Adrian Sutil, Adrian Valles, Fairuz Fauzy, Giedo van der Garde, Markus Winkelhock.

In fairness, there are a couple of decent drivers dotted about in that melange of pay drivers, but you can see the trend. I expect more of the same in the future for Caterham.

Post by **mario** » 26 Jul 2014, 07:24

Well, it looks like Kolles's advice to axe a sizeable chunk of Caterham's workforce may have backfired quite badly - the BBC is reporting that around 50 former workers for Caterham are launching legal action against the team for breach of contract and unfair dismissal, citing a major breach of UK employment law in the process. Furthermore, they are also trying to pressure the FIA to launch their own investigation into Caterham's actions (though given the FIA's tendency to inaction under Todt, I suspect that they'll simply ignore those claims). http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/28491380

sw3ishida · Post by **sw3ishida** » 29 Jul 2014, 17:35

And in turn, Sky are reporting that Caterham are also planning to launch legal action against their ex-employees. This could get messy and embarrassing...

http://www1.skysports.com/f1/news/17583/9399376/caterham-f1-to-launch-counter-lawsuit-against-former-employees

sswishbone · Post by **sswishbone** » 29 Jul 2014, 18:21

Autosport/Eurosport also have it

https://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/news/for ... 4--f1.html

Someone needs to send these clowns a link to this site's article "Risky Business" if they ain't careful this will end like Arrows in 2002

Zetec · Post by **Zetec** » 29 Jul 2014, 18:48

Bernie says: "Go home Colin Kolles".
In german we would say Kolles "is behaving like the ax in the forest".

Regardless of the outcome in this law suit it will be negativ for the reputation of the team.
Caterham wasn't successful in F1 up until now; but I always thought that it is a honest team doing their best. But now...

Post by **mario** » 29 Jul 2014, 19:24

sswishbone wrote:Autosport/Eurosport also have it

https://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/news/for ... 4--f1.html

Someone needs to send these clowns a link to this site's article "Risky Business" if they ain't careful this will end like Arrows in 2002

The damage to their reputation, which is likely to be sizeable, is already done - even if they win this lawsuit they are unlikely to recover their reputation, whilst the legal costs involved if they fail to win could be cripplingly high.

The silence of the new owners is also, to some extents, doing a fair bit of damage here too - the fact that they are not trying to publicly defend the company inevitably makes people think that the allegations are true. The fact that their written statement is also pointing to the defence that those people were working for a supplier to the team makes things worse, since it implies that there is some merit in the claims made by those employees and Caterham seem to be trying to find a technicality to get around the accusations.

Pointrox · Post by **Pointrox** » 30 Jul 2014, 06:49

Thus far two teams that resided in that factory went bust - Arrows and Super Aguri.
If Caterham will bail out, can we speak of the Leafield curse?

Shizuka · Post by **Shizuka** » 30 Jul 2014, 07:55

Pointrox wrote:Thus far two teams that resided in that factory went bust - Arrows and Super Aguri.
If Caterham will bail out, can we speak of the Leafield curse?

And funny thing is, 6 years went by between the Arrows and the Super Aguri bust.
...and Super Aguri's leave happened six years ago.

sw3ishida · Post by **sw3ishida** » 30 Jul 2014, 10:46

So I think it is safe to say that Leafield is cursed once every 6 years at least.

Yannick · Post by **Yannick** » 30 Jul 2014, 13:16

It's sad what's happening at Caterham. But it's fully understandable that Tony Fernandes pulled the plug on the loss leader that is F1.

With Colin Kolles' affiliation with Forza Rossa and now his advisory role in Caterham, how long is it going to be until Forza Rossa takes over Caterham? Might he already be preparing Caterham for this?

LionZoo · Post by **LionZoo** » 30 Jul 2014, 19:07

Shizuka wrote:
Pointrox wrote:Thus far two teams that resided in that factory went bust - Arrows and Super Aguri.
If Caterham will bail out, can we speak of the Leafield curse?

And funny thing is, 6 years went by between the Arrows and the Super Aguri bust.
...and Super Aguri's leave happened six years ago.

I'm standing up.

Post by **mario** » 29 Aug 2014, 20:00

Well, whilst Lotterer might have diverted attention to Caterham's on track activities, it looks as if the latest news surrounding the team will direct it to events off track.

According to the lawyer acting for the 38 people who were fired in the mass sackings at Caterham, he has now initiated employment tribunal proceedings against the team - furthermore, he has also started proceedings in the High Court given that the claims filed by several ex-employees exceeds the maximum compensation a tribunal can order the team to pay. The new owners might have wanted to cut costs, but it sounds as if their hasty staff cuts might end up costing them a lot more than they'd bargained for...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/28987492

noiceinmydrink · Post by **noiceinmydrink** » 29 Aug 2014, 21:18

mario wrote:Well, whilst Lotterer might have diverted attention to Caterham's on track activities, it looks as if the latest news surrounding the team will direct it to events off track.

According to the lawyer acting for the 38 people who were fired in the mass sackings at Caterham, he has now initiated employment tribunal proceedings against the team - furthermore, he has also started proceedings in the High Court given that the claims filed by several ex-employees exceeds the maximum compensation a tribunal can order the team to pay. The new owners might have wanted to cut costs, but it sounds as if their hasty staff cuts might end up costing them a lot more than they'd bargained for...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/28987492

Sucks for them. And also considering they're in a bit of a financial pickle...

CoopsII · Post by **CoopsII** » 30 Aug 2014, 11:01

Power to the people!

Waris · Post by **Waris** » 05 Sep 2014, 17:52

The less we hear about Forza Rossa lately, the more I think Caterham will just be rebranded as Forza Rossa next year. Although you never know, perhaps all this legal trouble will make the Romanians behind the project unhappy.

Post by **Londoner** » 07 Sep 2014, 14:50

Ted Kravitz has reported that Albers is leaving the team with immediate effect, mainly because money promised to the team by the investors hasn't materialised.

Shizuka · Post by **Shizuka** » 07 Sep 2014, 15:13

Geez, Caterham is a clusterbathplug right now.

Ed24 · Post by **Ed24** » 07 Sep 2014, 15:25

Albers not only a reject driver but a reject team principal too!

Zergon · Post by **Zergon** » 07 Sep 2014, 15:38

Well, that was short for Alberts.

Hmmm.... actually, I think that Caterham missed an opportunity to make some money here. I mean, they could have offered the team principal spot to the guy who pays most money to the team. Who knows, maybe someone would have been stupit enough to actually pay. I mean at least you would have got into record books as first pay team principal in F1 history. :lol:

Post by **Ataxia** » 07 Sep 2014, 17:10

Zergon wrote:Well, that was short for Alberts.

Hmmm.... actually, I think that Caterham missed an opportunity to make some money here. I mean, they could have offered the team principal spot to the guy who pays most money to the team. Who knows, maybe someone would have been stupit enough to actually pay. I mean at least you would have got into record books as first pay team principal in F1 history.

That is not out of the realms of possibility. In the summer of 2004, Nicolas Anelka's brother Claude paid Raith Rovers £180,000 to be their manager. Previously, the only experience he had was managing some low-grade youth academy in Paris. Anelka signed about ten players from said academy, who all were way out of their depth. The team began to sink and eventually the board had the balls to get rid of Anelka, who honourably left his investment with the club.

So, pay-principals aren't new (well, outside of F1 at least)!

andrew · Post by **andrew** » 07 Sep 2014, 17:47

Why do I get the feeling caterham will not be on the grid next year?

Post by **mario** » 07 Sep 2014, 17:58

East Londoner wrote:Ted Kravitz has reported that Albers is leaving the team with immediate effect, mainly because money promised to the team by the investors hasn't materialised.

And somehow I get the feeling that the money may never materialise at this rate - I hope that I'm being pessimistic, but seeing that the new owners seem to be at pains to not publish anything about themselves and the longer that questions remains unanswered over funding, and the more likely it appears that there may prove to be something rotten at the heart of this mystery.

Jocke1 · Post by **Jocke1** » 07 Sep 2014, 18:12

Well, at least they got a good showing from Marcus Ericsson today. That's some comfort for the team at this dark hour.
Ericsson drove a brilliant race today from 22nd on the grid.

Post by **Ataxia** » 07 Sep 2014, 20:32

mario wrote:
East Londoner wrote:Ted Kravitz has reported that Albers is leaving the team with immediate effect, mainly because money promised to the team by the investors hasn't materialised.

And somehow I get the feeling that the money may never materialise at this rate - I hope that I'm being pessimistic, but seeing that the new owners seem to be at pains to not publish anything about themselves and the longer that questions remains unanswered over funding, and the more likely it appears that there may prove to be something rotten at the heart of this mystery.

It appears that Christijan Albers' wife has been quite ill, so although on the face of it Caterham's promised investment going missing has forced Albers out of the team, it may have only been a small factor in his decision to leave the team.

andrew · Post by **andrew** » 07 Sep 2014, 20:35

Best to get out that sinking ship if you ask me.