Italian GP Discussion thread

[Jocke1]

What are you lot talking about? Ericsson managed to go below 1:31.000 already in Practice 1!
I think he's doing alright.

[Wallio]

I noticed in FP1 that Merhi had a green light flashing on the rear of the car - what was that about? It seemed to be all around the track...

Drivers without a superlicense have a green light instead of a red one.

You learn something new every day....

Wow, I too never knew that. Similar to the "Rookie stripes" we run over here I suppose. I always found those concepts rater demeaning myself.

[Waris]

[Edit] Speaking of Merhi, he has said that it looks as if his superlicence may be conditional on his performance in FP1. Interestingly, he has hinted that, even if he did get his superlicence fairly soon after Monza, he might not automatically replace Kamui immediately, mainly because of the difficulties in getting used to the next circuit coming up (Singapore). I wonder if perhaps Caterham might hold onto Kamui until after the Japanese GP - perhaps in the hope that they can exploit Kamui's home race for one last dollop of cash - with Merhi being given free practise sessions in the meantime.
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/115688

Replacing Kobayashi with a rookie in Singapore would make no sense. If anything that is the one chance they have this season of scoring some points, and you need a sly driver just like Kobayashi to do it.
By the way, I read that Caterham was thinking about using Lotterer in more races but that Monza and Suzuka were the only ones that don't clash with his commitments in WEC and Super Formula. I say that if Kolles has balls, he parks Ericsson's money for one race and lets Kobayashi and Lotterer race at Suzuka, because clearly they both have a lot of knowledge of that track.

[Yannick]

Kyvat undergoes 6th engine change

The change means that Kvyat will face a 10-place grid penalty for the Monza F1 event.

However, if due to a poor qualifying performance he is unable to be moved back the full 10 places, then the remainder of the punishment will be carried over to the Singapore GP.

How long has that carry-over rule been in effect? Isn't it enough punishment already to have to start from pitlane in one race?
If more engine penalties occur during the latter stages of this season and the rule is indeed in place for the first time this year, this rule would be a prime candidate for this very website's prestiguous year-end prize, the ROTY award.

[tommykl]

Kyvat undergoes 6th engine change

The change means that Kvyat will face a 10-place grid penalty for the Monza F1 event.

However, if due to a poor qualifying performance he is unable to be moved back the full 10 places, then the remainder of the punishment will be carried over to the Singapore GP.

How long has that carry-over rule been in effect? Isn't it enough punishment already to have to start from pitlane in one race?
If more engine penalties occur during the latter stages of this season and the rule is indeed in place for the first time this year, this rule would be a prime candidate for this very website's prestiguous year-end prize, the ROTY award.

Actually, I believe Jamie and Enoch already said that if everyone started getting engine penalties and not being able to serve them, reliability would be important for qualifying, and that it meant that smaller teams would start higher, and that therefore, they were all for it

[Miguel98]

Rosberg has a gearbox problem and Mercedes are not sure if they can fix it in time to not get a 5 grid place penalty.

[mario]

Rosberg has a gearbox problem and Mercedes are not sure if they can fix it in time to not get a 5 grid place penalty.

It sounds fairly serious for Nico given that it's kept him in the garage for the whole of FP3. Given that Mercedes still seem to have reasonably strong race pace, I wouldn't be surprised if Mercedes are considering taking the hit of a 5 place grid penalty - given the gearbox failure Nico had in Silverstone, I imagine the team would prefer to play it safe.

The worst that is likely to happen in that scenario is that Nico starts in 6th or 7th and finishes in 4th place, if Williams really are as competitive this weekend as we think, and Hamilton wins, cutting Nico's lead by 13 points. On the other hand, if Nico retires from the race and Hamilton were to win, that takes a 25 point chunk out of his lead - and I think that he wouldn't want to take too many risks of a DNF if it'd put Hamilton right back into play.

[EDIT] OK, scratch what I'd said earlier - it now appears that Paddy Lowe has told the BBC that they should be able to fix Nico's car before qualifying, and therefore should not have to take a gearbox penalty in that scenario.

[Minardi Man]

Williams are looking really competitive so far

[hootie]

I just noticed that

the fastest lap in Monza 2014 by Lewis today
is barely faster that the last placed quali lap
by Gianmaria Bruni just 10 years ago in Monza 2004

http://www.formula1.com/results/season/2004/728/5981/

hootie

[mario]

Williams are looking really competitive so far

Well, they've ended up where they expected - some way behind the Mercedes cars over a single lap, but the lap times that Massa was putting in on the hard tyres earlier in the session looked more competitive. I expect that Mercedes will probably be able to open up a gap in the race, but it is possible that Williams might put them under a bit of pressure based on their performance during the practise sessions.

On a related note, it looks like Ericsson's weekend is about to get a bit worse - it has now been confirmed that Ericsson is being penalised after failing to slow down in a yellow flag zone during the final practise session and will have to start the race from the pit lane. http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2014/09/06/e ... s-penalty/

I just noticed that

the fastest lap in Monza 2014 by Lewis today
is barely faster that the last placed quali lap
by Gianmaria Bruni just 10 years ago in Monza 2004

http://www.formula1.com/results/season/2004/728/5981/

hootie

Bruni's lap was 1m24.94s, whilst Hamilton's pole position lap was a 1m24.16s lap - I'd say that nearly 0.8s counts for more than "barely faster" (even if is the case that he'd have only really beaten the two Minardi's).

[FullMetalJack]

I just noticed that

the fastest lap in Monza 2014 by Lewis today
is barely faster that the last placed quali lap
by Gianmaria Bruni just 10 years ago in Monza 2004

http://www.formula1.com/results/season/2004/728/5981/

hootie

Is it bad that the only things I noticed were Ricardo Zonta in 11th and Nick Heidfeld being nearly a second quicker than Giorgio Pantano?

[Wallio]

I just noticed that

the fastest lap in Monza 2014 by Lewis today
is barely faster that the last placed quali lap
by Gianmaria Bruni just 10 years ago in Monza 2004

http://www.formula1.com/results/season/2004/728/5981/

hootie

It just goes to show that the 2004 cars were beasts. IMO the peak of F1 (1991-1993 can make a case though) I often wonder what lap times would be if those rules had stayed a bit longer.

[SgtPepper]

I just noticed that

the fastest lap in Monza 2014 by Lewis today
is barely faster that the last placed quali lap
by Gianmaria Bruni just 10 years ago in Monza 2004

http://www.formula1.com/results/season/2004/728/5981/

hootie

It just goes to show that the 2004 cars were beasts. IMO the peak of F1 (1991-1993 can make a case though) I often wonder what lap times would be if those rules had stayed a bit longer.

I bet the grooved tyres added a second or so per lap as well.

[CoopsII]

I just noticed that

the fastest lap in Monza 2014 by Lewis today
is barely faster that the last placed quali lap
by Gianmaria Bruni just 10 years ago in Monza 2004

http://www.formula1.com/results/season/2004/728/5981/

hootie

F1 drivers suck these days, that's why

[Jocke1]

I hear Montoya is in the paddock at Monza.
Had me remember a great interview with JPM from this past April.
Incidentally he answered one of my questions at 4:35 : )
http://youtu.be/GhWl1q_R10o?t=4m35s

[good_Ralf]

I hear Montoya is in the paddock at Monza.
Had me remember a great interview with JPM from this past April.
Incidentally he answered one of my questions at 4:35 : )
http://youtu.be/GhWl1q_R10o?t=4m35s

Awesome! Congratulations! I enjoy that moment more not because of itself (no spoilers) but commentator Jacques Schulz's man-gasp when Montoya did it on live TV.

[noiceinmydrink]

I hear Montoya is in the paddock at Monza.
Had me remember a great interview with JPM from this past April.
Incidentally he answered one of my questions at 4:35 : )
http://youtu.be/GhWl1q_R10o?t=4m35s

..."twenty oh-one"?

[hootie]

I can understand why on the Friday press conferences, the team bosses get all defensive about the current state of modern Formula 1.

I'm holding out for someone to pull out an impressive fastest lap in race conditions today.

hootie

[apple2009]

K-MAG

[Minardi Man]

Good race so far, shame Bottas has started so poorly though

[roblo97]

Bloody Kerbs took Talent out of the race

[Minardi Man]

Rosberg somewhat lucky there that he didn't mess that up more

[roblo97]

Bottas is doing some great moves as K-Mags gets a 5 second stop and go penalty.

EDIT: Ricciardo dummies Checo

[AndreaModa]

Supreme racing across the board today. But Bottas and Ricciardo - we're really seeing the stars of the future here.

[apple2009]

Smiley is flying here.

[pablo_h]

Loving the race.
Poor starts from Hamilton, Bottas and Ricciardo have made this race great and full of overtaking.
e: well Ric started 9th, so less a poor start than a poor spot on the grid, but driving so well as usual to get from 11th+ after the start, to 5th.
Other than that, predictable top 10 with in order: mercs, then williams, red bulls, mclarens and FI.

[apple2009]

Very good race.

[Dj_bereta]

Very good race.

Thank Bottas, Button, Magnussen, Perez and Ricciardo for that.

[Salamander]

Apparently Bottas disagreed with the decision to give Magnussen a penalty.

EDIT: It turns out that, in addition to booing Rosberg for no real reason, the Monza fans also enjoy blatant theft.

[Dj_bereta]

Apparently Bottas disagreed with the decision to give Magnussen a penalty.

Another proof of double standards of stewards.

This remember me of 2006 season, when stewards interfered in the title battle, giving that ridiculous penalty for Alonso.

[CoopsII]

EDIT: It turns out that, in addition to booing Rosberg for no real reason, the Monza fans also enjoy blatant theft.

Yeah that is pretty wanky but, c'mon, it could've happened anywhere. The booing needs to stop now, it really is dumb and belongs in the football terraces certainly not the hallowed environs of Monza park. A friend of mine went to Spa and according to him it was a bunch of numbskull BrIts that started that off and the crowd just joined in. Mob mentality in action, I guess.

[andrew]

Apparently Bottas disagreed with the decision to give Magnussen a penalty.

Another proof of double standards of stewards.

This remember me of 2006 season, when stewards interfered in the title battle, giving that ridiculous penalty for Alonso.

The issue with the Stewarts for me is consistancy, mags just took his line and did nothing wrong, we have seen worse in fia series, notably in gp2 2012 at spa when colado shoved Valsecchi onto the grass on the Kemmel straight and some, no investigation. What was different Between the button perez incident and the mags Bottas incident, both looked like forcing a car off to me, but even complained about perez when but shoved him there. Also ericson started in the pits as he overtook under double yellows in practice, yet Rosberg overtook under red in silverstone and no penalty, I don't mind the Stewarts being lieniant or harsh as long as they are consistent

[Jocke1]

The stealing of the camera got me thinking of Fisichella's Benetton in 1999, also at Monza.
http://youtu.be/qSVQndi_GEE

[mario]

Apparently Bottas disagreed with the decision to give Magnussen a penalty.

Another proof of double standards of stewards.

This remember me of 2006 season, when stewards interfered in the title battle, giving that ridiculous penalty for Alonso.

And according to Kravitz, Christian Horner also told him that he thought that the decision was harsh for what he considered to be a racing incident, so even some team principals in teams that weren't effected seem to think that it wasn't a fair decision.

I do agree with andrew that, in some ways, the Button-Perez incident was worse - either it could be judged that Button forced Perez off the track, in which case Button should have had a penalty, or it could be argued that Perez was able to retain his position by cutting across the chicane. Either investigate both incidents, or investigate neither - don't simply leave the issue hanging there...

EDIT: It turns out that, in addition to booing Rosberg for no real reason, the Monza fans also enjoy blatant theft.

Yeah that is pretty wanky but, c'mon, it could've happened anywhere. The booing needs to stop now, it really is dumb and belongs in the football terraces certainly not the hallowed environs of Monza park. A friend of mine went to Spa and according to him it was a bunch of numbskull BrIts that started that off and the crowd just joined in. Mob mentality in action, I guess.

The way that camera was stolen makes me think that this wasn't a fan but, more likely, a gang of thieves targeting a major event to pick pockets and steal goods. The way that the camera was cut off his shoulders does seem reminiscent of a technique some thieves have used to steal bags, whilst the way that the camera was then palmed off immediately to somebody else sounds like a preplanned action to ensure that the camera could be passed on to an accomplice who could then get away with what would be a fairly valuable piece of equipment.

As for the booing, I agree that it is disappointing - in Spa, at least, it made more sense that, in the heat of the moment, the fact that the clash was so profitable for Rosberg might make some want to boo him out of a sense of perceived injustice. I'd still find it disappointing if that happened, but at least there was an obvious trigger there - today, though, you'd have hoped that calmer heads would have prevailed rather than going back to the same old issue.

[Rob Dylan]

I hope you all join me in paying respects to Kamui Kobayashi, for a great, entertaining career. Likely his last race, it'll be sad to see him go (probably along with the team at the end of the year).

Thanks, Kamui :'(

[andrew]

I hope you all join me in paying respects to Kamui Kobayashi, for a great, entertaining career. Likely his last race, it'll be sad to see him go (probably along with the team at the end of the year).

Thanks, Kamui :'(

If he does go I think caterham will be mobbed by angry fans

[Miguel98]

There's a rumour going on that Williams aren't allowed to use the overtake button without Mercedes permission..

https://twitter.com/f1fanatic_co_uk/status/508902890195652608

Hum.. It's weird though. Although this would explain why Massa was told to not use the overtake button, especially cause saving fuel doesn't seem to be an issue with the Williams this season, since most times it's the car that uses less fuel.

[mario]

There's a rumour going on that Williams aren't allowed to use the overtake button without Mercedes permission..

https://twitter.com/f1fanatic_co_uk/status/508902890195652608

Hum.. It's weird though. Although this would explain why Massa was told to not use the overtake button, especially cause saving fuel doesn't seem to be an issue with the Williams this season, since most times it's the car that uses less fuel.

Then again, it could also be that there were other limitations restricting usage of the 'overtake' button. We saw the issues that Red Bull had in Austria when Vettel tried to use the 'overtake' button, only for the electrical systems to be sent into an automatic shutdown mode - and that was with an FIA mandated component that is common to all cars. Monza is also a circuit where the kinetic energy systems are subjected to a fairly heavy workout given that the braking zones are brief, but very intense, so it is possible that Williams's concerns could have been related to overtaxing the energy recovery systems rather than fuel consumption.

I'm also curious as to what source Motorsport magazine have used for that claim. Now, many of the points they make in the article are logical - such as their explanation for why Rosberg was running with a sub optimal forward brake bias that was causing braking issues - but having one engine manufacturer effectively decide the strategy of their customer? That's a fairly bold claim.

[Klon]

I'm also curious as to what source Motorsport magazine have used for that claim. Now, many of the points they make in the article are logical - such as their explanation for why Rosberg was running with a sub optimal forward brake bias that was causing braking issues - but having one engine manufacturer effectively decide the strategy of their customer? That's a fairly bold claim.

It's clickbait, I'd guess. All you need to do to draw that "conclusion" is the understanding that Williams refer to Mercedes on issues like this. What in fact just is "Williams ask Mercedes-Benz whether using the overtake button is wise, given the possible problems, both at Monza and anywhere else" can easily be interpreted as "Williams drivers only use the overtake button when Mercedes-Benz say so, because the Williams family are Toto Wolff's little slaves" if you possess a healthy lack of both conscience and journalistic integrity.
Although it is interesting that they make it merely a little side note within the linked article. So these idiots want to start a controversy, but are too cowardly to get a proper hook going. Spineless gits.

[Londoner]

Toto Wolff has actually had to clarify this. There are no words...

It's times like these that I despair being part of the F1 fanbase. They're gonna end up as my ROTY if this shite carries on.