2014 Brazilian Grand Prix (where Hamilton have bad luck)

BigG80 · Post by **BigG80** » 08 Nov 2014, 15:07

Miguel98 wrote:When I saw FP1 results, and saw Max Verstappen was 6th, I wsa like .

Then, I saw this:

http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/formula1/29953936

JEV went down the same road this morning in FP3. Maybe it is the car that likes it down there.

Post by **Miguel98** » 08 Nov 2014, 16:23

I swear to God, but Sky's tranmission has gotten progressivelly worst has the year goes on...

Post by **Frogfoot9013** » 08 Nov 2014, 16:45

Gutierrez 11th in quali. Sauber once again have a shot at scoring points but at this point it doesn't really matter considering Marussia are no more.

pablo_h · Post by **pablo_h** » 08 Nov 2014, 16:58

I can't believe how fast the williams are in q3 the 3rd sector, almost 0.3 s faster than the mercs.

e: Williams bottle it and fail, Hamilton locks up badly and fails by 0.033s
Ric just s u c k s badly.

IceG · Post by **IceG** » 08 Nov 2014, 17:10

Hamilton looks like he is driving for second place, which is all he needs.

Ed24 · Post by **Ed24** » 08 Nov 2014, 17:16

Damn it, would have been superb for Massa to grab pole - would have made it interesting for the championship battle too. Considering Williams' speed, should make for an interesting race - just hopefully no rain for them!

Post by **mario** » 08 Nov 2014, 18:08

IceG wrote:Hamilton looks like he is driving for second place, which is all he needs.

It could also be that he has set his car up with a slightly higher emphasis on race performance, which has harmed his single lap pace slightly.

Some observers have noted that it looks as if Hamilton has tended to set his car up with a slight amount of understeer on new tyres but, once the rear tyres have worn, the balance has tended to be a bit more neutral. Rosberg has tended to have a car with a sharper front end in qualifying but, on worn tyres, it does look as it the balance isn't quite as neutral, which is exacerbated slightly by his tendency to suffer from slightly higher tyre wear - he was already complaining in qualifying that he was overheating his rear tyres, and that was in colder conditions than we saw in the practise sessions.

Ed24 wrote:Damn it, would have been superb for Massa to grab pole - would have made it interesting for the championship battle too. Considering Williams' speed, should make for an interesting race - just hopefully no rain for them!

If it is dry, the two Williams drivers could give the Mercedes duo a run for their money in the opening laps - Massa, at least, could well have crept onto the front row and perhaps taken pole.

The only problem is that, whilst the Williams duo are mightily quick in the final sector (Massa was clocking nearly 343kph, or 213mph, in the speed trap), they are losing a lot of time in the middle sector - if that is the case, the Mercedes duo could perhaps break away from the two Williams in the midfield section and therefore rely on building a big enough gap there to avoid coming within range of them in the final sector.

It would also suggest that the two Williams drivers are running a fairly low downforce package - it may help them if it is dry, but they could well regret that if it starts raining heavily in the race.

Post by **Frogfoot9013** » 08 Nov 2014, 18:11

mario wrote:It would also suggest that the two Williams drivers are running a fairly low downforce package - it may help them if it is dry, but they could well regret that if it starts raining heavily in the race.

Aren't the Williams cars terrible in the wet anyway? They'll be absolutely screwed if it starts to rain.

Dj_bereta · Post by **Dj_bereta** » 08 Nov 2014, 19:36

Looks like Sauber is improving. I think the team have good chances of scoring some points with some retirements.

Post by **mario** » 08 Nov 2014, 20:51

Frogfoot9013 wrote:
mario wrote:It would also suggest that the two Williams drivers are running a fairly low downforce package - it may help them if it is dry, but they could well regret that if it starts raining heavily in the race.

Aren't the Williams cars terrible in the wet anyway? They'll be absolutely screwed if it starts to rain.

They were certainly one of the weaker teams in wet conditions earlier in the season, where they struggled to develop a wet weather engine map that provided the drivers with a slightly more progressive torque curve.

They have improved a bit since then, but it is an issue that isn't fully resolved - see the Japanese GP, for example, where they were strong in dry conditions but slipped back behind the Red Bull drivers in the wet (although Red Bull did also set their cars up with a heavy bias towards wet weather running), along with Button getting past too. Tyre management does still seem to be a slight issue in wet conditions - both drivers complained of heavy rear tyre degradation and were therefore often the ones who had to pit soonest.

With that issue already evident, a low downforce set up is hardly likely to help the team either, so it is quite plausible that wet weather could see Williams falling back at quite a rate in the race, whilst Red Bull and McLaren could come a little more to the fore (Ferrari is a little ambiguous).

Ed24 · Post by **Ed24** » 09 Nov 2014, 02:32

mario wrote:It would also suggest that the two Williams drivers are running a fairly low downforce package - it may help them if it is dry, but they could well regret that if it starts raining heavily in the race.

Also might mean that they might get stuck behind the Mercedes and aren't able to overtake, which has been a problem that has hurt them in plenty of races this year (with all cars not just the Mercedes).

razta · Post by **razta** » 09 Nov 2014, 04:44

At this rate, Rosberg is on course to do a Vettel or Grand Chelem.. Topping all sessions.. all he's got to do now is "Race win from lights to flag, leading every lap.. and get the fastest lap"

Cynon · Post by **Cynon** » 09 Nov 2014, 07:36

razta wrote:At this rate, Rosberg is on course to do a Vettel or Grand Chelem.. Topping all sessions.. all he's got to do now is "Race win from lights to flag, leading every lap.. and get the fastest lap"

Hamilton needs to have problems for Rosberg to take the title, though.

Aguaman · Post by **Aguaman** » 09 Nov 2014, 08:03

Do we know if it is going to piss down?

andrew2209 · Post by **andrew2209** » 09 Nov 2014, 10:38

Aguaman wrote:Do we know if it is going to piss down?

Not sure, seems to be a 40-50% chance of rain, and I saw somewhere reporting thunderstorms at 3:00pm local time

Post by **tommykl** » 09 Nov 2014, 10:55

andrew2209 wrote:
Aguaman wrote:Do we know if it is going to piss down?

Not sure, seems to be a 40-50% chance of rain, and I saw somewhere reporting thunderstorms at 3:00pm local time

Well, honestly, it's Interlagos. We won't know until it happens

shinji · Post by **shinji** » 09 Nov 2014, 11:15

Honestly after Suzuka I'd say we'll never see racing on a genuinely wet track ever again. And I can't really argue with that.

Post by **Miguel98** » 09 Nov 2014, 11:27

shinji wrote:Honestly after Suzuka I'd say we'll never see racing on a genuinely wet track ever again. And I can't really argue with that.

I'm not sure why exactly.. Bianchi's crash wasn't fault of the weather, it was more because of a mix of (very) unlucky cirscunstances.

The reason we won't race on a wet track, it's because of the tyres, which aren't developed at all... It's better to stay in intermediate tyres in full wet conditions, then to drive the wet tyres.. And Pirelli can't do anything about it, since they have limited testing to develop the tyres.

shinji · Post by **shinji** » 09 Nov 2014, 12:29

Miguel98 wrote:
shinji wrote:Honestly after Suzuka I'd say we'll never see racing on a genuinely wet track ever again. And I can't really argue with that.

I'm not sure why exactly.. Bianchi's crash wasn't fault of the weather, it was more because of a mix of (very) unlucky cirscunstances.

The reason we won't race on a wet track, it's because of the tyres, which aren't developed at all... It's better to stay in intermediate tyres in full wet conditions, then to drive the wet tyres.. And Pirelli can't do anything about it, since they have limited testing to develop the tyres.

Yeah but a wet track just exponentially increases the risk. The lower the grip, the higher the likelihood of someone going off the track. I'd say if the race stewards were hesitant before, they'll double down on that and it'll be safety cars and red flags guaranteed.

Post by **tommykl** » 09 Nov 2014, 12:48

shinji wrote:
Miguel98 wrote:
shinji wrote:Honestly after Suzuka I'd say we'll never see racing on a genuinely wet track ever again. And I can't really argue with that.

I'm not sure why exactly.. Bianchi's crash wasn't fault of the weather, it was more because of a mix of (very) unlucky cirscunstances.

The reason we won't race on a wet track, it's because of the tyres, which aren't developed at all... It's better to stay in intermediate tyres in full wet conditions, then to drive the wet tyres.. And Pirelli can't do anything about it, since they have limited testing to develop the tyres.

Yeah but a wet track just exponentially increases the risk. The lower the grip, the higher the likelihood of someone going off the track. I'd say if the race stewards were hesitant before, they'll double down on that and it'll be safety cars and red flags guaranteed.

If Bianchi's crash had happened on a dry track, then what? Would red flags be brought out for any minor incident?

Post by **Frogfoot9013** » 09 Nov 2014, 12:59

tommykl wrote:If Bianchi's crash had happened on a dry track, then what? Would red flags be brought out for any minor incident?

I'd say things would be more like in IndyCar then if it had happened on a dry track, where they'd bring out the caution for every sort of minor incident.

Dj_bereta · Post by **Dj_bereta** » 09 Nov 2014, 15:50

The sky is almost clear. I don't believe in rain anymore.

pablo_h · Post by **pablo_h** » 09 Nov 2014, 16:01

On one hand that's dissapointing, on the other, mercs and williams are going to suffer a lot I think.

FMecha · Post by **FMecha** » 09 Nov 2014, 16:07

VETTEL!!

pablo_h · Post by **pablo_h** » 09 Nov 2014, 16:10

Not a terrible start from dan dan mian for a change. (His starts usually resemble a noodle)
Vettel out the way and pitted eventually

Post by **Londoner** » 09 Nov 2014, 16:27

Massa got the tyre compounds changed before the race on safety grounds...and the track temperatures are the highest in 10 years. That's gonna turn the soft tyres into toast before too long. :mrgreen:

So yeah, Massa's just screwed every single driver on the grid, including himself. :lol:

pablo_h · Post by **pablo_h** » 09 Nov 2014, 16:30

I've already nominated him as ROTR in my predictions and that was one of the reasons, because it didn't look like it was going to rain. The other reason was me expecting him to over drive and do something else dumb too.

FMecha · Post by **FMecha** » 09 Nov 2014, 16:41

BBC's As It Happened text coverage wrote:Meanwhile, Valtteri Bottas has a shocker of a stop as his team battle to adjust his seatbelt.

Has a seat belt ever failed in F1 before?

pablo_h · Post by **pablo_h** » 09 Nov 2014, 16:55

Williams pit stops have failed before

but not sure about seatbelts

RICs car is stuffed and the race has been boring anyway.
Glad I'm on AWST, so it's only 12.55AM, not 3.55AM. Also glad I had enough drinks not to care

Rather watch a new ep of roadkill instead right now.

F1000X · Post by **F1000X** » 09 Nov 2014, 17:32

Good damage control by Hamilton after that spin. Pretty much everything he needed to do this weekend.

Post by **Miguel98** » 09 Nov 2014, 17:36

What a great race by Rosberg.. Beautiful.. The champioship is pending towards Hamilton, but I believe! Let's go Rosberg!

Ed24 · Post by **Ed24** » 09 Nov 2014, 17:40

Woo Felipe!

Nice from Rosberg too to keep the championship relatively alive.

Aguaman · Post by **Aguaman** » 09 Nov 2014, 18:06

Looking forward to the double points finale at Abu Dhabi. Sick of people whining about double points. Yeah sure I don't really like it kind of but it is not like a demon spawn child.

My Twitter feed especially F1 Fanatic are whining about it. Then again my feed whines about everything F1.

Anyway race was pretty bland but some interesting stuff with Esteban in 2nd and Bottas seatbelt issue.

BigG80 · Post by **BigG80** » 09 Nov 2014, 18:16

Did Rosberg mouth that Piquet was a bathplugging bar steward on the podium? He doubly earns the IIDOTR if so!

It was a tense race and I enjoyed it. I think we were all thinking the move would come but the only time I saw Hamilton go quicker in S2 all weekend he abandoned the lap. Rosberg was just mighty through there.

Aguaman · Post by **Aguaman** » 09 Nov 2014, 18:22

BigG80 wrote:Did Rosberg mouth that Piquet was a bathplugging bar steward on the podium? He doubly earns the IIDOTR if so!

Yes, yes he did.

dr-baker · Post by **dr-baker** » 09 Nov 2014, 21:12

Glad that Hamilton only finished second. Makes the double-points pointless. With double points? Both Hamilton and Rosberg remain in contention for the title. Without the double-points? Only Hamilton and Rosberg remain in contention for the title!

RAK · Post by **RAK** » 10 Nov 2014, 00:27

Aguaman wrote:Looking forward to the double points finale at Abu Dhabi. Sick of people whining about double points. Yeah sure I don't really like it kind of but it is not like a demon spawn child.

I think if a gimmick like double points has to be used, let it be at a place worthy of it, like Suzuka, Spa or Monaco, not a pancake-flat, dull-as-dishwater track in Abu Dhabi. As it stands, I'm annoyed at it, because it undeservedly raises the stature of Abu Dhabi when I believe the track shouldn't even be in the sport. I've begrudgingly learned to live with Bahrain, but Abu Dhabi has never delivered anything for me but disappointments and anti-climaxes.

Post by **Ataxia** » 10 Nov 2014, 00:33

RAK wrote:
Aguaman wrote:Looking forward to the double points finale at Abu Dhabi. Sick of people whining about double points. Yeah sure I don't really like it kind of but it is not like a demon spawn child.

I think if a gimmick like double points has to be used, let it be at a place worthy of it, like Suzuka, Spa or Monaco, not a pancake-flat, dull-as-dishwater track in Abu Dhabi. As it stands, I'm annoyed at it, because it undeservedly raises the stature of Abu Dhabi when I believe the track shouldn't even be in the sport. I've begrudgingly learned to live with Bahrain, but Abu Dhabi has never delivered anything for me but disappointments and anti-climaxes.

Quite symbolic of life, don't you think?

sswishbone · Post by **sswishbone** » 10 Nov 2014, 06:39

FMecha wrote:
BBC's As It Happened text coverage wrote:Meanwhile, Valtteri Bottas has a shocker of a stop as his team battle to adjust his seatbelt.

Has a seat belt ever failed in F1 before?

Not quite a belt failure but Justin Wilson was flung around in the cockpit of his MInardi at Malaysia one season, 2002 or 2003 I think

Shizuka · Post by **Shizuka** » 10 Nov 2014, 07:12

Eddie Irvine had a seatbelt issue in Interlagos 97!