What Tracks Will Get the Boot?

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Re: What Tracks Will Get the Boot?

Post by go_Rubens »

F1000X wrote:Asphalt runoff and Tecpro barriers would have been fine for the Peraltada. This wasn't about safety, it wasn't about improving the track, it was about selling more seats. bathplug off Bernie.


Except there's a public road in close proximity of the Peraltada. They're not going to add to the property anyway, the track's already in a city park. They're probably doing enough damage to the park by simply renovating the place. An American oval solution of safer walls and catch fencing would be viable. Too bad the FIA don't understand good 'MURICAN safety.

Couldn't Pirelli bring special tyres to the race if the Peraltada was to be used in it's proper form? Is there a rule against that or not?
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Re: What Tracks Will Get the Boot?

Post by Sublime_FA11C »

The original track was pretty dull though. Peraltada is fierce but beyond that there is a long straight, some chicanes and a Silverstone/COTA-like section of snake corners which get progressively faster. Last time the circuit was used Formula 1 cars were able to very, and i mean very closely follow one another. Something that has become largely impossible once aero development took a major leap forward since the turn of the century. But even then Mexico GP was more like Hungaroring than Spa. With the addition of new twisty bits and "traction zones" there may be better opportunities to chase someone down by getting a better exit out of a corner. Still, half the circuit seems to me to be unsuitable to todays F1.

Modern F1 cars cant tail one another without compromising tyre life and losing massive amounts of downforce (which didnt exist before). The race is probably going to be "processional" but i doubt the fans at the track will care too much about that.
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Re: What Tracks Will Get the Boot?

Post by dr-baker »

Ataxia wrote:
dr-baker wrote:
Ataxia wrote:


F1 cars aren't designed for that configuration of corner, though.

They're not? I don't recall seeing any racing from that race track, but Pereltada always looked like that it would be a very similar challenge to Monza's Parabolica. Even the corner names look like they might just be different languages' words for the same thing/concept. Can you explain where the difference between these two corners are, where F1 cars could tackle Parabolica safely, but not Pereltada, please Ataxia?


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Re: What Tracks Will Get the Boot?

Post by Backmarker »

Formula Sochi, the promoter of the Russian Grand Prix has filed for bankruptcy; the rouble is collapsing; Russian monetary reserves have been depleted by trying to prop up the rouble; thanks to inflation, the Russian Grand Prix will cost twice as much to host ($80m).

Fingers crossed, eh?
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Re: What Tracks Will Get the Boot?

Post by Captain Hammer »

The current state of the Russian economy is mostly a result of falling commodity prices. They have been running the economy off their oil and gas reserves for over a decade, but the low prices are unsustainable - even for the major producers like Saudi Arabia - over the long term. They have put interest rates up 7% in a single move, which is pretty extreme, but they're trying to smother consumer and business expenditure to stop things spiralling out of control, mostly because ripping the guts out of your own economy is better than having someone else do it for you. But it's only going to work if commodity prices start climbing again. It's probably the most dramatic thing they have done since Anatoly Chubais was running the show in the mid-1990s.

I would be careful wishing that outcome on Russia, if I were you. Russia is probably looking at a short-term recession at best. They will only produce what they need, and export as little oil and gas as they can, since current commodity prices mean those reserves are worth more in the ground than flowing into Europe. That means Europe might be faced with its own energy crisis. No doubt the Russians will be hoping that the demand from Europe will put pressure on the Saudis and OPEC to raise the price of oil so that they can stagger their own production and start getting money to flow back in, but it's going to be a tertiary objective of their current economic policy.
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Re: What Tracks Will Get the Boot?

Post by watka »

Good to have an economist on the forum Captain!
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Re: What Tracks Will Get the Boot?

Post by mario »

Captain Hammer wrote:The current state of the Russian economy is mostly a result of falling commodity prices. They have been running the economy off their oil and gas reserves for over a decade, but the low prices are unsustainable - even for the major producers like Saudi Arabia - over the long term. They have put interest rates up 7% in a single move, which is pretty extreme, but they're trying to smother consumer and business expenditure to stop things spiralling out of control, mostly because ripping the guts out of your own economy is better than having someone else do it for you. But it's only going to work if commodity prices start climbing again. It's probably the most dramatic thing they have done since Anatoly Chubais was running the show in the mid-1990s.

I would be careful wishing that outcome on Russia, if I were you. Russia is probably looking at a short-term recession at best. They will only produce what they need, and export as little oil and gas as they can, since current commodity prices mean those reserves are worth more in the ground than flowing into Europe. That means Europe might be faced with its own energy crisis. No doubt the Russians will be hoping that the demand from Europe will put pressure on the Saudis and OPEC to raise the price of oil so that they can stagger their own production and start getting money to flow back in, but it's going to be a tertiary objective of their current economic policy.

The Russian government have indicated that, for the short term at least, they will not cut their oil production until OPEC also cut back production - whilst in theory those reserves would be more valuable if they remained in the ground until oil prices rose, Russia is in a situation where the steady flow of capital provided by oil sales trumps those considerations.

However, the gut feeling is that, as the larger players within OPEC, such as Saudi Arabia, have very substantial reserves of cash (Saudi Arabia alone is thought to have more than $750bn in reserves to draw on), and since the Saudi's in particular have a policy aim of putting the US shale oil industry out of business, oil prices are likely to remain depressed until the Saudi's believe that they have pumped the US shale industry into oblivion.

Whilst the Saudi's are making losses on their oil sales, those substantial reserves mean they can hold out for several years before they face any sort of issues. Russia, who are caught up in this process, are hurting badly when they need prices above $100 per barrel for the state to fund its obligations - hence the collapse of the rouble and the severe action the central bank is taking. Unfortunately for the Russian Central Bank, it seems that the rest of the world is reacting to the shock rise in interest rates (they've gone from 9.5% barely a week ago to %17 now) badly - the rouble is sinking even faster as the rest of the world reads that move as a desperate gamble of an economy in crisis.

However, I do think that Putin may yet step in if he can to save the race - the Russian GP is mainly being staged as a projection of Russian prestige and a way of publicising Sochi, that symbolic holiday resort of the Russian leadership, so to have to surrender the race due to bankruptcy would be embarrassing for Putin and for the Russian government.
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Re: What Tracks Will Get the Boot?

Post by Nuppiz »

In the meantime The Official F1® Website is boldly displaying all 21 races of 2015 on its main page.

Wait a second, something's missing... :P
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Re: What Tracks Will Get the Boot?

Post by UncreativeUsername37 »

Nuppiz wrote:In the meantime The Official F1® Website is boldly displaying all 21 races of 2015 on its main page.

Wait a second, something's missing... :P
Image

If you go here (or any of the other IN DETAIL pages for that matter) and bring up the menu left of "circuit diagram", Korea is on the list, but you can't click it. Also, bahrain_938 and spain_940 are the expected pages, but korea_939 doesn't exist.
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Re: What Tracks Will Get the Boot?

Post by Nuppiz »

UgncreativeUsergname wrote:
Nuppiz wrote:In the meantime The Official F1® Website is boldly displaying all 21 races of 2015 on its main page.

Wait a second, something's missing... :P
Image

If you go here (or any of the other IN DETAIL pages for that matter) and bring up the menu left of "circuit diagram", Korea is on the list, but you can't click it. Also, bahrain_938 and spain_940 are the expected pages, but korea_939 doesn't exist.

What's even more interesting is that China's "id" is china_939, despite being held before Bahrain.
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Re: What Tracks Will Get the Boot?

Post by Captain Hammer »

I fail to see how that's interesting. Pages can have any id the webmaster likes. The pages were probably created before the calendar was created.
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Re: What Tracks Will Get the Boot?

Post by dr-baker »

Captain Hammer wrote:I fail to see how that's interesting. Pages can have any id the webmaster likes. The pages were probably created before the calendar was created.

I think what is being suggested, Captain, is 938, 939, 940, etc. would be related to the order of the grand prix within the history of the sport. So if you begin with the British Grand Prix of 1950 as Britain_001, which GP would be xxx_939, xxx_940, etc? That is what appears to be interesting, understanding the logic of the webmaster to the page IDs.
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Re: What Tracks Will Get the Boot?

Post by dinizintheoven »

I seem to remember grandprix.com orders them that way...
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Re: What Tracks Will Get the Boot?

Post by Bobby Doorknobs »

dr-baker wrote:
Captain Hammer wrote:I fail to see how that's interesting. Pages can have any id the webmaster likes. The pages were probably created before the calendar was created.

I think what is being suggested, Captain, is 938, 939, 940, etc. would be related to the order of the grand prix within the history of the sport. So if you begin with the British Grand Prix of 1950 as Britain_001, which GP would be xxx_939, xxx_940, etc? That is what appears to be interesting, understanding the logic of the webmaster to the page IDs.

Except China will be the 919th GP, not 939th.
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Re: What Tracks Will Get the Boot?

Post by dr-baker »

Simtek wrote:
dr-baker wrote:
Captain Hammer wrote:I fail to see how that's interesting. Pages can have any id the webmaster likes. The pages were probably created before the calendar was created.

I think what is being suggested, Captain, is 938, 939, 940, etc. would be related to the order of the grand prix within the history of the sport. So if you begin with the British Grand Prix of 1950 as Britain_001, which GP would be xxx_939, xxx_940, etc? That is what appears to be interesting, understanding the logic of the webmaster to the page IDs.

Except China will be the 919th GP, not 939th.

Oh, OK. I was just speculating, and just figured that the total number of world championship rounds to date was in that kind of ball-park figure. Never mind.
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Re: What Tracks Will Get the Boot?

Post by UncreativeUsername37 »

Simtek wrote:
dr-baker wrote:
Captain Hammer wrote:I fail to see how that's interesting. Pages can have any id the webmaster likes. The pages were probably created before the calendar was created.

I think what is being suggested, Captain, is 938, 939, 940, etc. would be related to the order of the grand prix within the history of the sport. So if you begin with the British Grand Prix of 1950 as Britain_001, which GP would be xxx_939, xxx_940, etc? That is what appears to be interesting, understanding the logic of the webmaster to the page IDs.

Except China will be the 919th GP, not 939th.

There's a lost season too?
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Re: What Tracks Will Get the Boot?

Post by Bobby Doorknobs »

UgncreativeUsergname wrote:There's a lost season too?

Or maybe... two seasons if this happened in the '50s or '60s. :o
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Re: What Tracks Will Get the Boot?

Post by UncreativeUsername37 »

Germany isn't linked, but it does have a number reserved for it, and the page exists. Although it refuses to give away much....

http://www.formula1.com/races/in_detail ... agram.html
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Re: What Tracks Will Get the Boot?

Post by Captain Hammer »

The FIA have reportedly removed Korea from the schedule, having done it very discreetly over Christmas. Officially, the calendar remains at twenty-one Grands Prix, but there is no obvious alternative for the vacant slot short of reviving the Pacific Grand Prix at a circuit like Fuji (which has not been suggested). It looks like they are trying to get around their own regulations to allow teams to use an extra power unit without suffering the embarrassment of undoing a regulation intended to promote efficiency in an era when efficiency is their watchword.
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Re: What Tracks Will Get the Boot?

Post by Spectoremg »

Hi everyone,
I've recently joined the site having dipped into it over the years and had many a chuckle.
I've spent the last few days reading this post with great interest and due to the occasional mention of Paul Ricard I decided to take a look at the last F1 race run there in 1990 (available in it's entirety on Y**tube in 10 neat pieces).
Several things were interesting:
1. How quick the cars seemed (on what's obviously a quick circuit).
2. The very processional nature of the race - thank god for DRS.
3. Pit lanes without speed limits - frightening!
4. The Leyton House showing during a disastrous season - imagine a back of the grid team doing that these days?! Did it possibly just suit their cars? Oh and those back-to-front front wing endplates which I believe were an early Newey idea?
I have a fondness for this circuit but I guess two long straights with quick joiny bits at either end wouldn't be too acceptable these days - someone would have to royally screw it up with chicanes.
Happy New Year in anticipation.
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Re: What Tracks Will Get the Boot?

Post by Captain Hammer »

The new Mexico City layout has been finalised:


http://www.formula1.com/races/in_detail ... agram.html
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Re: What Tracks Will Get the Boot?

Post by UncreativeUsername37 »

Captain Hammer wrote:The new Mexico City layout has been finalised:


http://www.formula1.com/races/in_detail ... agram.html

No more repetitive esses, and the chicanes (though they were different enough before) seem more different too. The final corner was dramatic, but the new section looks fun and challenging too. I like.
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Re: What Tracks Will Get the Boot?

Post by Press_Play2002 »

*clicks on link* THE PARABOLICA IS DEAD!? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WWaLxFIVX1s
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Re: What Tracks Will Get the Boot?

Post by Captain Hammer »

Press_Play2002 wrote:THE PARABOLICA IS DEAD!?

It has been known for a while that the Peraltada had to be changed. It's extremely quick, but there is no run-off and a major arterial road right behind it. In the event of a serious accident, it could be absolutely devastating.
UgncreativeUsergname wrote:No more repetitive esses,

I do like them. It looks like an attempt to create multiple racing lines by forcing the drivers to commit to car placement through the corners - they'll have to sacrifice one apex to perfect the other.

and the chicanes (though they were different enough before) seem more different too.

They are. The first sequence is tighter and more in line with Tamburello. The bottom section is definitely different.
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Re: What Tracks Will Get the Boot?

Post by TheFlyingCaterham »

According to the website, the first grand prix at Mexico City was 1986.



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Re: What Tracks Will Get the Boot?

Post by AdrianBelmonte_ »

Captain Hammer wrote:The new Mexico City layout has been finalised:


http://www.formula1.com/races/in_detail ... agram.html


Image

THIS is a corner? SERIOUSLY?
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Re: What Tracks Will Get the Boot?

Post by UncreativeUsername37 »

AdrianBelmonte_ wrote:
Captain Hammer wrote:The new Mexico City layout has been finalised:


http://www.formula1.com/races/in_detail ... agram.html


Image

THIS is a corner? SERIOUSLY?

That happens with so many tracks I don't even care anymore... take the debate with the kink after turn 1 at the Hungaroring, some say 2, some say 1A, some say it's not a corner at all. I take the line that if you don't have to hit an apex, it's not a corner, but it seems the important people don't agree. That's one of the nice things about named corners, too.
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Re: What Tracks Will Get the Boot?

Post by Spectoremg »

AdrianBelmonte_ wrote:
Captain Hammer wrote:The new Mexico City layout has been finalised:


http://www.formula1.com/races/in_detail ... agram.html


Image

THIS is a corner? SERIOUSLY?

Looks like they're taking it through the baseball stadium, or demolishing it? Why were so many changes necessary? (Not to this corner, I'm aware of the reasoning, I mean the rest of the track)?
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Re: What Tracks Will Get the Boot?

Post by Frogfoot9013 »

Spectoremg wrote:
AdrianBelmonte_ wrote:
Captain Hammer wrote:The new Mexico City layout has been finalised:


http://www.formula1.com/races/in_detail ... agram.html


Image

THIS is a corner? SERIOUSLY?

Looks like they're taking it through the baseball stadium, or demolishing it? Why were so many changes necessary?

I know when Champ Car visited Hermanos Rodriguez, they also went through the stadium instead of the Peraltada, but the layout of the stadium complex was simpler.Image
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Re: What Tracks Will Get the Boot?

Post by roblo97 »

Frogfoot9013 wrote:
Spectoremg wrote:
AdrianBelmonte_ wrote:Image

THIS is a corner? SERIOUSLY?

Looks like they're taking it through the baseball stadium, or demolishing it? Why were so many changes necessary?

I know when Champ Car visited Hermanos Rodriguez, they also went through the stadium instead of the Peraltada, but the layout of the stadium complex was simpler.Image

Here is the other option Champ Car used.

Image
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Re: What Tracks Will Get the Boot?

Post by Spectoremg »

[url][/url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ty51w6ULG1c
This looks good, a chicane before the Peraltada.
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Re: What Tracks Will Get the Boot?

Post by CoopsII »

I'm more than a little excited about returning to Mexico and I think the track looks great. As far as turn 15 goes, well, maybe there's some sort of camber to it that will make it more of a challenge than it looks from the picture?
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Re: What Tracks Will Get the Boot?

Post by Captain Hammer »

Nope. Perfectly flat.
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Re: What Tracks Will Get the Boot?

Post by CoopsII »

Oh.

Mind you turn 15 at China is pretty lame too so it's not on it's own.
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Re: What Tracks Will Get the Boot?

Post by Captain Hammer »

Qatar are reportedly pushing for a 2016 race at a brand-new circuit, though Bahrain - long speculated to have a veto power - are said to be against it.
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Re: What Tracks Will Get the Boot?

Post by DanielPT »

Captain Hammer wrote:Qatar are reportedly pushing for a 2016 race at a brand-new circuit, though Bahrain - long speculated to have a veto power - are said to be against it.


I can see some kind of bidding war in there. Although if Qatar manages to pay, Bernie might be willing to do an effort to accommodate the two in the calendar. He might have to do his fair share of politicking between the two as their relations are far from being cordial...
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Re: What Tracks Will Get the Boot?

Post by nome66 »

Captain Hammer wrote:Qatar are reportedly pushing for a 2016 race at a brand-new circuit, though Bahrain - long speculated to have a veto power - are said to be against it.

new circuit? why? Losail is perfectly good.
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Re: What Tracks Will Get the Boot?

Post by AdrianBelmonte_ »

nome66 wrote:
Captain Hammer wrote:Qatar are reportedly pushing for a 2016 race at a brand-new circuit, though Bahrain - long speculated to have a veto power - are said to be against it.

new circuit? why? Losail is perfectly good.

But it's not designed by Tilke ;)
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Re: What Tracks Will Get the Boot?

Post by Rocks with Salt »

Usually you guys are much more vigilant about this than I am, but I'm surprised nobody posted this yet:

The Walloon government has invested enough capital to keep the Belgian Grand Prix on the calendar until 2018.

This essentially means that every track on my track board that I posted on the last page is slotted in the "A-OK" column. With so many locations wanting to host an F1 race, this is going to become a bidding war that can only benefit Bernie's pockets unless they want to expand the calendar again.

Soon they'll have tracks that will bid for a spot on the "Backup List" just in case one track can't fulfill its obligations and they need a replacement on the fly. Actually, that sounds like a good idea in case another Korean GP fiasco occurs.
...in bed.

1998 Monaco GP wrote:Murray Walker: A lot of people here are really debating if Riccardo Rosset is Formula 1 material.
Martin Brundle: Well, that's a fairly short debate, Murray.
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Salamander
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Location: Embittered former NASCAR fan.

Re: What Tracks Will Get the Boot?

Post by Salamander »

nome66 wrote:
Captain Hammer wrote:Qatar are reportedly pushing for a 2016 race at a brand-new circuit, though Bahrain - long speculated to have a veto power - are said to be against it.

new circuit? why? Losail is perfectly good.


For bikes, maybe. The layout is flatter and duller than Abu Dhabi, it'd be a nightmare to watch.
Sebastian Vettel wrote:If I was good at losing, I wouldn't be in Formula 1
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