Alt-1955 - Prize money awarded!

Post by **tommykl** » 13 Jan 2015, 15:46

Right, there's one more seat left to take in Singapore, then I can run the weekend nice and quickly!

Klon · Post by **Klon** » 13 Jan 2015, 15:52

Buck Baker from South Carolina will enter the Singapore Grand Prix as a privateer.

Post by **tommykl** » 13 Jan 2015, 17:42

April 8th 1955, Singapore Grand Prix qualifying

For the very first time, the Formula One paddock heads to South East Asia for a Grand Prix in Singapore, one week after legislative elections saw the Labour Front take power with David Marshall as Chief Minister. These were the first elections concerning a majority of seats in the Legislative Assembly, another step towards Singapore's self-government.

In this context, Thompson Road Circuit will be hosting the colony's first ever Grand Prix, with 40 entries, including some local drivers.

2. Dorino Serafini (Officine Renzo) - Alfa Romeo AR161 chassis 5, Alfa Romeo AR2V8 engine 3
4. Cesare Perdisa (Officine Renzo) - Alfa Romeo AR161 chassis 4, Alfa Romeo AR2V8 engine 4
6. Lex Davison (Scuderia Australasia) - Cooper T40 chassis 2, Jaguar JFE-2 engine 7
8. Spider Webb (FRacing) - FRacing FH355 chassis 1, FIAT 155 engine 1
10. Ken Wharton (Reatherson Racing Developments) - Ferrari 555 chassis 4 and Ferrari 555 engine 11
12. Dennis Poore (Vanwall) - Vanwall VW55 chassis 2, Vanwall 254 engine 2
14. Ron Flockhart (Officine Alfieri Maserati) - Maserati AM53 chassis 1, Maserati 200F engine 1
16. Consalvo Sanesi (Alexander Racing Team - Gordini) - Gordini G-953 chassis 6, Gordini ART-004 engine 6
18. Paco Godia (Alexander Racing Team - Gordini) - Gordini G-953 chassis 2, Gordini ART-004 engine 2
20. Theo Fitzau (Guidobaldi) - Guidobaldi FG01 chassis 2, Mercedes UM153 engine 14
22. Harry Schell (Scuderia Anglo-Italia) - Bentley Speed 4 chassis 7, O.S.C.A. 156s engine 7
24. Johnny Claes (Ecurie Nationale Belge) - Ferrari 555 chassis 8, Ferrari 555 engine 1
26. Lucien Bianchi (Ecurie Nationale Belge) - Cooper T40 chassis 1, Jaguar JFE-2 engine 5
28. Roger Loyer (Loyer Racing) - Loyer LR101 chassis 2, Porsche 755 engine 4
30. Eugenio Castellotti (Porsche System Engineering) - Porsche 855 chassis 1, Porsche 755 engine 1
32. Bernie Ecclestone (Bernie C. Ecclestone) - Mercedes WM-2 chassis 1, Mercedes UM153 engine 1
34. Stanley Woods (Bernie C. Ecclestone) - Mercedes WM-2 chassis 5, Bentley 16VL-1 engine 7
36. Bib Stillwell (Tasman Racing Alliance) - O.S.C.A. F154 chassis 7, Vanwall 254 engine 3
38. Karl Kling (Rennkollektiv EMW) - Aston Martin AM-04 chassis 7, Jaguar JFE-2 engine 9
40. Umberto Maglioli (British Commonwealth Motorsport Association) - B.C.M.A. C-01 chassis 3, B.C.M.A. A/AS Griffin engine 3
42. Arsenio Laurel (Scuderia Ambrosiana) - Ambrosiana A-004 chassis 1, Alfa Romeo ARV8 engine 5
44. Eddie Carvalho (Scuderia Ambrosiana) - Ambrosiana A-004 chassis 2, Alfa Romeo ARV8 engine 6
46. Alberto Ascari (Phoenix Racing Organisation) - Phoenix PRO-4 chassis 1, O.S.C.A. 156s engine 11
48. Thomas Pitt Cholmondeley-Tapper (Privateer) - HWM spec chassis, Alta spec engine
50. Lim Peng Han (Privateer) - HWM spec chassis, Alta spec engine
52. Chan Lye Choon (Privateer) - HWM spec chassis, Alta spec engine
54. Bill Lomas (Privateer) - HWM spec chassis, Alta spec engine
56. Colin Chapman (Privateer) - HWM spec chassis, Alta spec engine
58. Rodney Nuckey (Privateer) - HWM spec chassis, Alta spec engine
60. Pat Moss (BRUNEL) - O.S.C.A. F154 chassis 4, Porsche 755 engine 2
62. Eldred Norman (Privateer) - HWM spec chassis, Alta spec engine
64. Bill Paterson (Privateer) - HWM spec chassis, Alta spec engine
66. Olivier Gendebien (Impéria Automobiles) - HWM spec chassis, Alta spec engine
68. Bruce Halford (Privateer) - HWM spec chassis, Alta spec engine
70. Eric Thompson (Privateer) - HWM spec chassis, Alta spec engine
72. Jorge Daponte (Privateer) - HWM spec chassis, Alta spec engine
74. Clemar Bucci (Privateer) - HWM spec chassis, Alta spec engine
76. Bill Whitehouse (Privateer) - HWM spec chassis, Alta spec engine
78. Ken McAlpine (Privateer) - HWM spec chassis, Alta spec engine
80. Buck Baker (Privateer) - HWM spec chassis, Alta spec engine

After the publication of the season preview, two other drivers have made their entries.

Olivier "Ay yes, the Congo" Gendebien
Formula 1
3 entries, 1 start, did not finish.
Non-championship
7th place in the 1952 Grand Prix des Frontières
Career
1953 Coupe de Spa winner
1954 Tulip Rally winner (with Pierre Stasse)
7th place in the 1954 Tour de France automobile (with Pierre Stasse)
14th place in the 1954 12 Hours of Reims (with Gilberte Thirion)
21st place in the 1954 Mille Miglia (with Fraikin)

Buck "I am so getting banned for this" Baker
NASCAR Grand National
111 starts
10 race victories
54 top five finishes
3rd place in the 1954 season

Post by **tommykl** » 13 Jan 2015, 18:23

Qualifying performance

Bucci - 114
Poore - 113
Baker - 113
Davison - 110
Carvalho - 110
Castellotti - 105
Nuckey - 105
Moss - 105
Flockhart - 104
Godia - 104
Claes - 104
Loyer - 104
Ecclestone - 104
Gendebien - 104
Whitehouse - 104
Fitzau - 103
Woods - 102
Stillwell - 102
Maglioli - 102
Laurel - 102
Norman - 102
Thompson - 102
Sanesi - 101
McAlpine - 100
Ascari - 99
Wharton - 98
Paterson - 98
Bianchi - 97
Schell - 96
Cholmondeley-Tapper - 96
Lim - 96
Kling - 95
Chan - 93
Halford - 93
Serafini - 92
Chapman - 92
Webb - 91
Lomas - 90
Daponte - 89
Perdisa - 84

RonDenisDeletraz · Post by **RonDenisDeletraz** » 13 Jan 2015, 21:47

Is it possible for Asso di Fiori to enter Tony Gaze part time later in the season?

pycku · Post by **pycku** » 13 Jan 2015, 21:52

Amazing run by Stan Jones makes everybody in Balkan Leader ecstatic. We are going to negotiate with comrade Chervenkov for some more money as this project finally looks promising one! Long live People's Republic of Bulgaria and comradeship with PR China

Post by **tommykl** » 14 Jan 2015, 07:08

RonDenisDeletraz wrote:Is it possible for Asso di Fiori to enter Tony Gaze part time later in the season?

Gaze is doing the full season with Alfa Romeo, so you'd have to ask DanielPT.

Post by **tommykl** » 14 Jan 2015, 09:52

Qualifying results
1. Consalvo Sanesi (Gordini) - 2:32.27
2. Paco Godia (Gordini) - 2:34.42
3. Alberto Ascari (Phoenix-O.S.C.A.) - 2:34.78
4. Harry Schell (Bentley-O.S.C.A.) - 2:36.20
5. Dorino Serafini (Alfa Romeo) - 2:36.31
6. Johnny Claes (Ferrari) - 2:37.25
7. Bernie Ecclestone (Mercedes) - 2:37.36
8. Eddie Carvalho (Ambrosiana-Alfa Romeo) - 2:37.77
9. Arsenio Laurel (Ambrosiana-Alfa Romeo) - 2:38.83
10. Roger Loyer (Loyer-Porsche) - 2:38.95
11. Ken Wharton (Ferrari) - 2:39.27
12. Stanley Woods (Mercedes-Bentley) - 2:40.26
13. Dennis Poore (Vanwall) - 2:40.43
14. Umberto Maglioli (B.C.M.A.) - 2:40.42
15. Eugenio Castellotti (Porsche) - 2:40.55
16. Pat Moss (O.S.C.A.-Porsche) - 2:40.96
17. Clemar Bucci (HWM-Alta) - 2:41.48
18. Karl Kling (Aston Martin-Jaguar) - 2:41.67
19. Bib Stillwell (O.S.C.A.-Vanwall) - 2:41.77
20. Cesare Perdisa (Alfa Romeo) - 2:41.89
21. Buck Baker (HWM-Alta) - 2:41.92
22. Olivier Gendebien (HWM-Alta) - 2:42.40
23. Rodney Nuckey (HWM-Alta) - 2:42.99
24. Ron Flockhart (Maserati) - 2:43.01
25. Bill Whitehouse (HWM-Alta) - 2:43.29
26. Eldred Norman (HWM-Alta) - 2:43.60
27. Eric Thompson (HWM-Alta) - 2:43.61
28. Ken McAlpine (HWM-Alta) - 2:43.90
29. Bill Paterson (HWM-Alta) - 2:44.21
30. Lucien Bianchi (Cooper-Jaguar) - 2:44.35
31. Spider Webb (FRacing-FIAT) - 2:44.51
32. Thomas Pitt Cholmondeley-Tapper (HWM-Alta) - 2:44.52
33. Lim Peng Han (HWM-Alta) - 2:44.53
34. Chan Lye Choon (HWM-Alta) - 2:44.97
35. Bruce Halford (HWM-Alta) - 2:44.98
36. Theo Fitzau (Guidobaldi-Mercedes) - 2:45.12
37. Colin Chapman (HWM-Alta) - 2:45.13
38. Bill Lomas (HWM-Alta) - 2:45.43
39. Lex Davison (Cooper-Jaguar) - 2:45.58
40. Jorge Daponte (HWM-Alta) - 2:45.59

The Gordinis easily take the top spots, while Clemar Bucci is the only privateer to make the grid, in a stunning 17th place.

Post by **tommykl** » 14 Jan 2015, 10:17

And here is the race performance.

Ascari 22
Kling 19
Stillwell 16
Castellotti 14
Maglioli 11
Wharton 10
Claes 9
Loyer 5
Serafini 4
Godia 3
Poore -2
Woods -5
Bucci -5
Perdisa -8
Schell -9
Laurel -9
Ecclestone -10
Moss -11
Carvalho -15
Sanesi -12

Barring collisions, there will be 11 retirements, and therefore 9 finishers. There will be 4 engine failures and one single Category 1 accident.

dr-baker · Post by **dr-baker** » 14 Jan 2015, 10:28

Yay! Go Pat Moss!

And Buck Baker just one position away from qualifying? Must remember to bear him in mind if I want/need a reserve driver...

Post by **Bobby Doorknobs** » 14 Jan 2015, 10:53

Absolutely gutted that Singapore's greatest ever driver won't be on the grid for his home race.

Post by **tommykl** » 14 Jan 2015, 15:09

April 9th 1955, Singapore Grand Prix

Ascari made a brilliant start, taking the race lead from Sanesi and Godia, while Karl Kling also made a great getaway, gaining three spots in the first lap. However, on the very next lap, Ascari put a wheel on the grass at the exit of turn one. He avoided a spin but lost a lot of speed and dropped to fourth place behind Godia, now leading, Sanesi and Serafini. Not one to be outdone, he took third place again on the next lap, but couldn't get past Sanesi. The complete débutants at Ambrosiana were already fifth and sixth, Carvalho leading Laurel. On lap 2, Claes' engine failed, as did Woods' transmission, leaving 18 drivers.

On lap 5, Schell passes Laurel and took sixth place again. Kling promptly retired from 15th place with a suspension failure. On the very next lap, Serafini began to quickly lose gears in his Alfa Romeo, preferring to retire from fourth place than continue with one gear. Further back, Poore, Maglioli, Moss and Loyer were involved in a spirited fight for eighth place. Ecclestone dropped back into the pack and the battle was now for seventh. On lap 12, Laurel passed Schell once more for fifth place, but on the very next lap, the American repassed the Filipino. On lap 14, Ascari caught and passed Consalvo Sanesi for second place behind the surprising Paco Godia, who was in a comfortable lead.

But not comfortable enough, as on lap 17, Ascari caught him and launched a desperate move, which worked, muscling through into the race lead for Phoenix. That same lap, Ecclestone made a similar move on Wharton for seventh place, then Umberto Maglioli passed an astonishing four different drivers in the space of a single lap. On lap 20, Castellotti's Porsche engine expired and Pat Moss span out on the oil it left behind. 14 drivers were left at the race's halfway point. Ascari led from Godia, Sanesi, Carvalho, Schell, Laurel, Ecclestone, Wharton, Maglioli, Poore, Loyer, Stillwell, Perdisa and Bucci. On the next lap, Sanesi finally passed teammate Godia for second place, and one lap later, Schell passed Carvalho for fourth place.

Godia's race didn't last much longer. On lap 26, his transmission gave up. He was in third place. This elevated Schell to that spot, with Carvalho and Laurel now fourth and fifth and Umberto Maglioli inheriting sixth place. Carvalho's engine then expired from fourth place, elevating Ken Wharton to the points. The midfield battle continued to rage, then on lap 38, three drivers retired simultaneously, Arsenio Laurel, gearbox seized, Bib Stillwell, blown engine and Cesare Perdisa, steering failure!

Ascari eventually scored Phoenix's first victory, albeit non-championship, while Sanesi came home second with the fastest lap. Schell was third for SAI ahead of Maglioli's BCMA, Roger Loyer and Ken Wharton in the Reatherson Ferrari. After good performance early in the race, Dennis Poore eventually fell back behind Ecclestone's Mercedes, but he has shown the promise of the Vanwall.

1. Alberto Ascari (Phoenix-O.S.C.A.) 1:46:50.40
2. Consalvo Sanesi (Gordini) +1:54.11
3. Harry Schell (Bentley-O.S.C.A.) +2 laps
4. Umberto Maglioli (B.C.M.A.) +2 laps
5. Roger Loyer (Loyer-Porsche) +2 laps
6. Ken Wharton (Ferrari) +2 laps
7. Bernie Ecclestone (Mercedes) +3 laps
8. Dennis Poore (Vanwall) +3 laps
9. Clemar Bucci (HWM-Alta) +4 laps
Ret. Arsenio Laurel (Ambrosiana-Alfa Romeo) +5 laps/Gearbox
Ret. Bib Stillwell (O.S.C.A.-Vanwall) +6 laps/Engine
Ret. Cesare Perdisa (Alfa Romeo) +6 laps/Steering
Ret. Paco Godia (Gordini) +15 laps/Transmission
Ret. Eddie Carvalho (Ambrosiana-Alfa Romeo) +15 laps/Engine
Ret. Pat Moss (O.S.C.A.-Porsche) +22 laps/Spin
Ret. Eugenio Castellotti (Porsche) +22 laps/Engine
Ret. Dorino Serafini (Alfa Romeo) +35 laps/Gearbox
Ret. Karl Kling (Aston Martin-Jaguar) +36 laps/Suspension
Ret. Johnny Claes (Ferrari) +39 laps/Engine
Ret. Stanley Woods (Mercedes-Bentley) +39 laps/Transmission

Fastest lap: Consalvo Sanesi (Gordini) - 2:36.59

dr-baker · Post by **dr-baker** » 14 Jan 2015, 18:06

It seems like there's promise in the Pat Moss/OSCA combo. Shame about the spin on the oil though. I would have hoped she could have dealt with that with her rally experience.

Nessafox · Post by **Nessafox** » 14 Jan 2015, 21:05

I'm going to edit my entry again.

Belgian GP:
Bentley Speed 4 chassis 1 - Bentley 16VL-1 engine 1 - Paul Frère
Aston Martin AM-04 chassis 6 - Jaguar JFE-2 engine 5 - André Pilette
Ferrari 555 chassis 8- Ferrari 555 engine 1 - Johnny Claes
Cooper T40 chassis 3 - Jaguar JFE-2 engine 7 - Lucien Bianchi

I will retreat all other entries, and the Bentley package will be for sale for 14000.

Why suddenly this? I don't have much money, i need money (hence why selling the stuff) and i'm also working on a plan, more to be announced later.

Also, the Aston Martin AM-04 chassis 6 - Jaguar JFE-2 engine 5 will both officially sold to Scuderia Australasia (or Ecurie, whatever) for 8000+8000. So they get full ownership, but i will 'rent' the car in Belgium. As a compensation, they can use Jaguar JFE-2 engine 7 for free in the British and Irish GP. I originally thought of giving them an extra cooper, but i'm not that evil.

Normal32 · Post by **Normal32** » 14 Jan 2015, 22:43

This wrote:I'm going to edit my entry again.

Belgian GP:
Bentley Speed 4 chassis 1 - Bentley 16VL-1 engine 1 - Paul Frère
Aston Martin AM-04 chassis 6 - Jaguar JFE-2 engine 5 - André Pilette
Ferrari 555 chassis 8- Ferrari 555 engine 1 - Johnny Claes
Cooper T40 chassis 3 - Jaguar JFE-2 engine 7 - Lucien Bianchi

I will retreat all other entries, and the Bentley package will be for sale for 14000.

Why suddenly this? I don't have much money, i need money (hence why selling the stuff) and i'm also working on a plan, more to be announced later.

Also, the Aston Martin AM-04 chassis 6 - Jaguar JFE-2 engine 5 will both officially sold to Scuderia Australasia (or Ecurie, whatever) for 8000+8000. So they get full ownership, but i will 'rent' the car in Belgium. As a compensation, they can use Jaguar JFE-2 engine 7 for free in the British and Irish GP. I originally thought of giving them an extra cooper, but i'm not that evil.

I would like to buy the Bentley package.

Nessafox · Post by **Nessafox** » 14 Jan 2015, 22:46

Normal32 wrote:
This wrote:I'm going to edit my entry again.

Belgian GP:
Bentley Speed 4 chassis 1 - Bentley 16VL-1 engine 1 - Paul Frère
Aston Martin AM-04 chassis 6 - Jaguar JFE-2 engine 5 - André Pilette
Ferrari 555 chassis 8- Ferrari 555 engine 1 - Johnny Claes
Cooper T40 chassis 3 - Jaguar JFE-2 engine 7 - Lucien Bianchi

I will retreat all other entries, and the Bentley package will be for sale for 14000.

Why suddenly this? I don't have much money, i need money (hence why selling the stuff) and i'm also working on a plan, more to be announced later.

Also, the Aston Martin AM-04 chassis 6 - Jaguar JFE-2 engine 5 will both officially sold to Scuderia Australasia (or Ecurie, whatever) for 8000+8000. So they get full ownership, but i will 'rent' the car in Belgium. As a compensation, they can use Jaguar JFE-2 engine 7 for free in the British and Scottish GP. I originally thought of giving them an extra cooper, but i'm not that evil.

I would like to buy the Bentley package.

Perfect! I still want to use it in Belgium though, if that's okay with you? But you'll get a Cooper T40 as an extra in return (you can get some scrap money out of it

)

Normal32 · Post by **Normal32** » 14 Jan 2015, 23:00

This wrote:
Normal32 wrote:
This wrote:I'm going to edit my entry again.

Belgian GP:
Bentley Speed 4 chassis 1 - Bentley 16VL-1 engine 1 - Paul Frère
Aston Martin AM-04 chassis 6 - Jaguar JFE-2 engine 5 - André Pilette
Ferrari 555 chassis 8- Ferrari 555 engine 1 - Johnny Claes
Cooper T40 chassis 3 - Jaguar JFE-2 engine 7 - Lucien Bianchi

I will retreat all other entries, and the Bentley package will be for sale for 14000.

Why suddenly this? I don't have much money, i need money (hence why selling the stuff) and i'm also working on a plan, more to be announced later.

Also, the Aston Martin AM-04 chassis 6 - Jaguar JFE-2 engine 5 will both officially sold to Scuderia Australasia (or Ecurie, whatever) for 8000+8000. So they get full ownership, but i will 'rent' the car in Belgium. As a compensation, they can use Jaguar JFE-2 engine 7 for free in the British and Scottish GP. I originally thought of giving them an extra cooper, but i'm not that evil.

I would like to buy the Bentley package.

Perfect! I still want to use it in Belgium though, if that's okay with you? But you'll get a Cooper T40 as an extra in return (you can get some scrap money out of it )

Now we have the Bentley package and the Cooper (i assume), i will do some changes to my entries:
-FH355 will only be used in Belgium. For all the other rounds, we will use Bentley Speed 4.
-16VL is used as a back up for the 155, while the Cooper is also a backup.
-Cooper T40 is also available for anyone to buy at 5000. Now thats some cheap price.

Nessafox · Post by **Nessafox** » 14 Jan 2015, 23:55

On second thought, you will not receive a Cooper, but you can use the Bentley in Belgium as well, theflyingcaterham can use the Jag-aston in belgium as well and andrew can use the ferrari in Belgium as well. Because the cars i'm going to run are going to be better. yeah i know it's getting annoying, but because of the pm-function, you will see less posts from me in the future, i promise!

Post by **tommykl** » 15 Jan 2015, 09:54

Right, as promised...

Proposed Rule Changes for 1956(aka. attempts to cut down on entries)

The point behind these rule changes is to have less entries in each individual race while keeping as many users as possible.

1. Entry renewal
From next year, you will no longer be able to enter every race with one single post. Instead, you will only be able to enter the next race and none after that. The point here is to benefit members who commit a bit more time to the championship, while still allowing less active members to enter some races. Of course, if you miss one race, nothing is stopping you from entering the next one. It also allows be to spend less time editing sketchy ideas of late-season entries.

2. Teams per member
As there is an increasing amount of members with two or even three teams who simply build cars and sell them to themselves. To counteract this phenomenon, users will be limited to a maximum of two teams, and only if both teams are not manufacturers. A member who controls a manufacturer will no longer be able to also run a private entry. Essentially, there will be three options: 1 manufacturer, 1 privateer, 2 privateers. Essentially, this removes the options of having two manufacturers and/or one manufacturer and one privateer.

3. Realism and canon
While it's great to see so much involvement in the series, only a handful of members have any interest in steering this championship towards what it should look like at the end of 1978 for the transition into pasta_maldonado's Formula 1. While I don't want to see the end of funny entries, I would still like more entries that mimic real life. For this reason, new members will be encouraged to take on real life manufacturers. On top of this, to avoid the manfucaturer's title becoming synonymous with the team's title, a limited number of manufacturers will be kept. I am still undecided as to how this will be implemented, but 10 chassis manufacturers and 10 engine manufacturers with a certain minimum budget will be retained, as well as the opportunity for low-budget start-ups. The manufacturers will be selected from various criteria, including performance, contribution to canon, whether it's a real constructor or not and how good its back story is.

4. Young drivers
Not nearly enough one-offs are happening for a series in the 1950s, and this must change. From 1956 onwards, three chassis manufacturers and three engine manufacturers who existed in real-life Formula 1 but not yet (or not anymore) in the canon will be selected to create spec cars, much like the HWM-Altas in the non-championship races. Each member will be allowed three free private entries over the course of the season. They can all be entered in the same race or in separate races. They must, however, not be under contract to another team and also must be from a list of countries acceptable for each race. This is simply to get the 1950s feel of local drivers in local races. I'll go into more detail at some point in the future.

5. A "World" championship
While there has always been a championship race held outside of Europe in every season so far (Indianapolis in 1950 and 1951, Sebring from 1952 to 1954, Australia in 1952, Morocco in 1955), the will to actually race overseas isn't extremely overwhelming. At the urging of one particular member and the support of several others, there will be a mandatory amount of two races per season to be run outside of Europe. This will not affect how votes are submitted, but rather how they are tallied.

I will probably have more ideas as the season progresses, but these are the five I could think of. Discuss, imrove, criticise, despise, suggest.

pasta_maldonado · Post by **pasta_maldonado** » 15 Jan 2015, 11:35

With regards to constructors, I can understand why you want to cut back on the amount of constructors, but It has to be done in a way that doesn't involve 8 manufacturers all going bust/quitting after 1955 because they haven't been selected.

Post by **Bobby Doorknobs** » 15 Jan 2015, 11:42

1. Looks more in line with 1950s F1 so I'm in favor of this.

2. Interesting as just a few days ago I was thinking of recreating Bugatti's failed 1956 effort. Whether I do now hinges on how well my current team does this year. Anyway, this is a good suggestion.

3. That does affect my plans to build an Irish Racing Automobile (and I'm not just talking about Joe Kelly's Alta-Bristol), although that depends on how successful IRA will be with the Lancia anyway (God, now I know how modern F1 teams feel about rule changes

). However, to take an unbiased view, I am in favor of this.

4. Great idea.

5. Here's a suggestion, but please stay your pitchforks and torches: What about a double header counted as one race under this ruling? Say for argument's sake you have a Canadian and US Grand Prix within a week of each other at Mosport and Watkins Glen (I know, Mosport doesn't exist yet) and then have another race outside Europe in Buenos Aires? Although like the other possible rule changes, the original suggestion is still good.

Post by **tommykl** » 15 Jan 2015, 11:49

Simtek wrote:5. Here's a suggestion, but please stay your pitchforks and torches: What about a double header counted as one race under this ruling? Say for argument's sake you have a Canadian and US Grand Prix at Mosport and Watkins Glen (I know, Mosport doesn't exist yet) and then have another race outside Europe in Buenos Aires? Although like the other possible rule changes, the original suggestion is still good.

Well, the way this would work is through normal voting, let's say three non-European tracks make the calendar. All three will be on it, and no change will occur. However, if only one or no non-European tracks are voted on, the bottom European track(s) will be bumped in favour of the non-European track(s) with the most votes.

pasta_maldonado wrote:With regards to constructors, I can understand why you want to cut back on the amount of constructors, but It has to be done in a way that doesn't involve 8 manufacturers all going bust/quitting after 1955 because they haven't been selected.

This situation can, in my opinion, be avoided by constructors restricting themselves to making solely chassis or solely engines to take up one spot out of 20 instead of 2. Of course, that won't happen for every constructor, so I'm thinking of starting the process with a multi-tier system of constructors regarding budget (and not car quality).

Post by **Bobby Doorknobs** » 15 Jan 2015, 11:51

tommykl wrote:
Simtek wrote:5. Here's a suggestion, but please stay your pitchforks and torches: What about a double header counted as one race under this ruling? Say for argument's sake you have a Canadian and US Grand Prix at Mosport and Watkins Glen (I know, Mosport doesn't exist yet) and then have another race outside Europe in Buenos Aires? Although like the other possible rule changes, the original suggestion is still good.

Well, the way this would work is through normal voting, let's say three non-European tracks make the calendar. All three will be on it, and no change will occur. However, if only one or no non-European tracks are voted on, the bottom European track(s) will be bumped in favour of the non-European track(s) with the most votes.

Ah, for some reason I took that to mean there would be a maximum of two non-European races. Never mind.

pi314159 · Post by **pi314159** » 15 Jan 2015, 14:09

1. I fully approve of that proposal. Rewards those people with more commitment to the series, and makes it feel more like the real 50's with changing entry lists every race.
2. I understand the idea, and entry sizes have to be reduced. While it unfortunately affects my teams, I agree that for the series as a whole, this is an improvement.
3. I disapprove of this idea. Pasta's series only starts in 1979. So I'd suggest to have this series being canon until some time before 1970, and the 10 seasons between those series could be scripted to ensure a transition between them. It has little connection to the rest of the canon, so I don't think it would really hurt your series if the seasons after 1969 would be non-canon (also, it will take a real-life decade to get there anyway, five years if you're fast). On the issue of the lack of privateers, just cut down manufacturer's starting budgets, so that starting you team as a privateer is the easier way.
4. I like that idea.
5. Either way would be ok for me.

CaptainGetz12 · Post by **CaptainGetz12** » 15 Jan 2015, 15:18

I too approve of this change in rules for the 1956 season. Having people have to appeal for each and every race forces them to stay on task, which hopefully can trim down the field. I feel like with the current rules that new privateers don't have a chance to make the grid with the size of the entry lists right now, so any way to improve their chances and promote one-offs is welcome in my book.

pasta_maldonado · Post by **pasta_maldonado** » 15 Jan 2015, 17:30

CaptainGetz12 wrote:I too approve of this change in rules for the 1956 season. Having people have to appeal for each and every race forces them to stay on task, which hopefully can trim down the field. I feel like with the current rules that new privateers don't have a chance to make the grid with the size of the entry lists right now, so any way to improve their chances and promote one-offs is welcome in my book.

But on the other side of the coin, the constructors and the big teams have just as much of a right to enter and compete

Privateers shouldn't have race starts handed to them on a plate solely because they are privateers.

Nessafox · Post by **Nessafox** » 15 Jan 2015, 18:14

1 Agree. This will prevent me from constantly changing my mind.
2 I think one member should run maximum one team, no matter if they're constructors or privateers. Only one team. I voluntary refused to make Cooper a separate entry from ENB, because of avoiding too large grids. At least one thing i did right...
3 The problem with canon is that Pasta's series involves fictional drivers, and that pi's series doesn't involve fictional teams. This series is caught in between both concepts, but i think it will be easier to synchronise it with the latter. Therefore i'm in favour of no longer allowing fictional teams. Voecklerrhea is great, but not in this series

.
I don't think restricting the amount of constructors and engines to 10 will be a good thing, however, the budgets could get more realistic, though, there are too many 3-car teams and not enough 1-car teams. Also i think the auction thing kind of disrupted the natural flow of this series, and this should not ever be repeated.
4 Obviously, it makes no sense to let my belgian drivers drive in a race like Australia.
To combine point 3 and 4, perhaps it might be a good idea to put a maximum price on what constructors can ask for their cars, so we see a lot more cheap, rejectful privateers, instead of privateers running top machinery or giving a monopoly to a few constructors. Both are absolutely unrealistic. Making some entries free doesn't make much sense to me, it will have opposite effect of what you want, as it would only increase grid sizes instead of reducing it. Teams should be encouraged to either be smart or take a lot of risk. In reality, lot of teams went bankrupt, while your idea prevents teams from going bankrupt.
5 Neutral.
6 Perhaps you should reconsider the idea of having pay-drivers. These drivers should get a significantly lower value than paid drivers. It will encourage people to have a lot more variety in their driver choices. Also it would prevent unrealistic drivers like Van Der Lof to suddenly become a top driver without gaining experience first. Every driver has to start on the bottom of the ladder, unless their real-life experience justifies them to be a top talent right from the start.

FantometteBR · Post by **FantometteBR** » 15 Jan 2015, 21:06

My picks on it

1-I am for it, if that allows more entries to come and also might ending up helping people who are just entering only for the fun

2-I am for it as well, And I don't have nothing to add as well

3-If there is a 'merger' between canons, it should be 'enforced', little by little, starting from now. Maybe allowing only non-real drivers to be privateers at special races and once in a while during the season. I am in favor to at least keep and enforce people to bring the names that 'matter' for the RL canon (or even asking to some owners to 'morph' them into the team (I mean Lotus/Brabham/McLaren/Eagle/the first ATS etc) and only allow the 'fictional names that matter into any canon that will be picked to'

4-If there is a list of drivers who qualify for that, it would be better for the users to pick their drivers from (but what if a user ends up 'protecting' drivers from being used for other if one intends to pick him/her as the driver for a latter season?)

5-I am okay with that too as well

Post by **DemocalypseNow** » 15 Jan 2015, 21:22

I think the method of enforcement of team ownership restriction is unnecessarily strict. There should be an option to allow more small privateers with the stipulation that any economic interaction between manufacturers and privateers run by the same member is banned. This will naturally limit the number of teams without the need for iron-fist enforcement of privateer numbers. Although I do agree that manufacturer numbers need controlled, rules for privateer limits should be freer, with the economic conditions included of course.

Post by **tommykl** » 15 Jan 2015, 22:28

FantometteBR wrote:3-If there is a 'merger' between canons, it should be 'enforced', little by little, starting from now. Maybe allowing only non-real drivers to be privateers at special races and once in a while during the season. I am in favor to at least keep and enforce people to bring the names that 'matter' for the RL canon (or even asking to some owners to 'morph' them into the team (I mean Lotus/Brabham/McLaren/Eagle/the first ATS etc) and only allow the 'fictional names that matter into any canon that will be picked to'

From what I can gather, point 3 is sticking with a lot of people, and honestly, it's also the problem that's the hardest to solve. The end goal is to have as many members involved, but less entries per race, and the main problem here is the amount of manufacturers. Since I introduced the concept of a budget to remove arbitrary and erratic allocations of entries per team, the amount of entries has sky-rocketed, and I think that's simply because I was overly generous with budgets. Definitely, one of the priorities will be to increase costs and/or reduce the amount of money that is present in the F1 economy. Not enough to run teams out of business within two races, but enough to reduce them to the occasional entry instead of easily fielding two full-time cars, for example.

The fact is, there are so many cars at the front that the midfield is essentially fighting to qualify, and that shouldn't be happening. I'm open to concrete suggestions for how such changes can be achieved, because 60-car entry lists are frankly ludicrous.

As for the canon point of view, that's essentially what I'm trying to do, convince new users to take on real-life teams and constructors to steer the series towards what it looks like in 1979. In fact, one member has already proposed to rebrand his team as Lotus sometime in the future. As for drivers, I'm bringing fictional drivers in very gradually, and I already stated that the first of these will be Léon Albertini, who's the earliest mentioned fictional driver. Private entries will be a thing simply because team bosses (rightly) prefer to keep a driver for a full season rather than gamble on youngsters, and also because the series is lacking in local one-offs for a championship based in the 1950s. Sure, it's slightly artificial, but it's a price I'm willing to pay.

HawkAussie · Post by **HawkAussie** » 15 Jan 2015, 23:07

1. I do agree with this concept because
2. In some way I think it should be only limited to two teams per member. So I do agree with that concept as well
3. FantometteBR has a good point with including non-real drivers to be the privateers with Leonhard von Gottorp just to named as one of them
4. I agree with this concept and one I can think of the top of my head is Connaught Engineering being one of them. In terms of the three free private entries, I think that they should be in different races not just in one.
5. I agree with this concept.

TheFlyingCaterham · Post by **TheFlyingCaterham** » 15 Jan 2015, 23:29

1. Agreed. It makes the series look slightly more like the real F1 in that time.
2. I agree on this as well, as it would decrease entries and give slower teams a bit more chance to qualify for a race.
3. I'm sort of confused as to how this will work, so I won't vote on this straight away.
4. Agreed. gives more chances to drivers to race in F1 who otherwise would not get a shot.
5. This is another one I am unsure about, as it would be hard for teams with lower budgets to be able to afford to travel outside of Europe. However, it would give more of a chance for non-European drivers and teams to get a shot in F1, so I'm kinda meh about this one.

Post by **tommykl** » 16 Jan 2015, 07:10

TheFlyingCaterham wrote:5. This is another one I am unsure about, as it would be hard for teams with lower budgets to be able to afford to travel outside of Europe. However, it would give more of a chance for non-European drivers and teams to get a shot in F1, so I'm kinda meh about this one.

That is exactly the point. Back in those days, you hardly had little European privateers take their stuff to Argentina or the United States. It's supposed to be impossible for the smaller teams to make it.

pycku · Post by **pycku** » 16 Jan 2015, 09:39

1. I agree on that. However there should be an option for people on holidays to be able to participate. A "holiday mode" or just long enough deadlines would be perfect.
2. I totally agree on that. I did have two teams, but the original idea was that they never trade together. However, financial situation changed my mind.
3. That limitation seems harsh decision. Maybe there must be rules that harden manufacturer's life so that they vanish little by little in course of time. As far as I know, there were many "manufacturers" trying their luck (especially chassis manufacturers) in 50es. As for engines, I totally agree that 10 engine suppliers is more than enough, though.
4. I agree on that. But I believe there should be more non-championship races.
5. As my team is not big enough, this doesn't seem good for us. However, I personally support such a decision.

DanielPT · Post by **DanielPT** » 16 Jan 2015, 10:14

1.
Since I read the forum daily on week days (except on vacations) this won't affect me much although I also favour an holiday mode like pycku said. Besides this wouldn't be nothing new as it used to be like this in the at the start in 1950. Back then you said it was realistic to renew entries on a race to race basis and the concept of season would only be allowed from 1974 onwards. :p

2.
I am always an apologist of a team per forum member although exceptions when entry lists aren't large enough can be made. What could be made to simulate real one off entries is to allow even members who control manufacturers to enter some one off privateers as long as they run with spec stuff like the HWM-Altas.

3.
I already saw that Alfa Romeo is present in 1979 so for me it won't be a problem. I will just have to think of a way for them to become useless. Perhaps it will occur naturally. :p

4.
Completely agree about more one-offs and more spec stuff. And this goes hand to hand with my point 2 comment.

5.
Well, if the idea of this set of rules is to make the series closer to the 50s feeling 2 should also be the maximum number of races outside of Europe. It was only since 1963 that more than 2 away races started to exist if we ignore Indianapolis 500. And 67 for more than 3.

Post by **tommykl** » 16 Jan 2015, 18:31

DanielPT wrote:5.
Well, if the idea of this set of rules is to make the series closer to the 50s feeling 2 should also be the maximum number of races outside of Europe. It was only since 1963 that more than 2 away races started to exist if we ignore Indianapolis 500. And 67 for more than 3.

I don't think that should be a problem. Quite a few teams wouldn't be able to make the trip so wouldn't vote for tracks outside of Europe. The chances of getting three non-European tracks should be quite low.

pi314159 · Post by **pi314159** » 17 Jan 2015, 12:27

Julius Kubinsky has revealed that a second JK Mono-Tatra is going to take part in the inaugural Soviet Grand Prix. JK Mono 3000 chassis 2 is believed to be based on a Bentley Speed 3, rather than an OSCA 53. The car will be powered by a Tatra F1 V8. Kubinsky himself is unlikely to run a second car, but the State Committee for Sports and Body Culture of USSR has already announced the intention to enter the Grand Prix, and the JK Mono-Tatra is currently the only available Grand Prix car from eastern Europe, apart from the Balkan Lion engine.

OOC: In fact, the car is the Bentley Speed 3 / OSCA 3000V8 combination run by de Filippis in 1953. The chassis and engine will be sold to Kubinsky for GBP 3000, where they are rebadged as JK Mono 3000 chassis 2, Tatra F1 V8 engine 2 and sold to State Committee for Sports and Body Culture of USSR for GBP 3500.

Nessafox · Post by **Nessafox** » 17 Jan 2015, 18:39

I can now officially confirm that the ambitious partnership between Cooper and Maserati is a thing. More official details will follow soon.I hope i get things ready before Monaco.

Like i mentioned from the first page of this thread, i'm looking for privateers willing to invest in the Cooper T41, so the financial risk for all parties involded will be as small as possible. I calculated if 5 parties will be involved, it will cost plus minus 45000 for a top tier Cooper car. 50000 with 4 parties involved , 41666,67 for 6 , etc etc. The more teams that participate, the cheaper it will be.

Altough this is more expensive than buying for example a customer Aston-Jaguar, the plus side is that constructor prize money will also be split up between all involving teams, which would not happen if you buy a customer car.
This, in my opinion, is a very good concept, as it is significantly cheaper than building a top tier car in your own right (which will cost you 200000 for your first car).
Considering ENB and Maserati are already two partners involved, we need a few privateers to join us.
Also i think that sort of participation plan is also the way to go with the HWM-Alta idea, altough cheaper.

(final edit: 20:18 Brussels time)

Post by **Bobby Doorknobs** » 17 Jan 2015, 19:32

This wrote:I can now officially confirm that the ambitious partnership between Cooper and Maserati is a thing. More official details will follow soon.I hope i get things ready before Monaco.

Like i mentioned from the first page of this thread, i'm looking for privateers willing to invest in the Cooper T41, so the financial risk for all parties involded will be as small as possible. I calculated if 5 parties will be involved, it will cost plus minus 45000 for a top tier Cooper car. 50000 with 4 parties involved , 41666,67 for 6 , etc etc. The more teams that participate, the cheaper it will be.

Altough this is more expensive than buying for example a customer Aston-Jaguar, the plus side is that constructor prize money will also be split up between all involving teams, which would not happen if you buy a customer car.
This, in my opinion, is a very good concept, as it is significantly cheaper than building a top tier car in your own right (which will cost you 200000 for your first car).
Considering ENB and Maserati are already two partners involved, we need a few privateers to join us.
Also i think that sort of participation plan is also the way to go with the HWM-Alta idea, altough cheaper.

(final edit: 20:18 Brussels time)

Put me down as a maybe.

Nessafox · Post by **Nessafox** » 17 Jan 2015, 19:55

Simtek wrote:Put me down as a maybe.

How much time do you need to think about it?