USF1 seeks permission to miss first 4 races

McDuck · Post by **McDuck** » 21 Feb 2010, 18:35

Paul Hayes wrote:USF1 must be finished now, surely? All that's left is for them to sell their entry to Stefan GP.

According to the links I posted earlier, they've already been shopping their entry around to other parties to offset any FIA fines. They're beyond finished.

CarlosFerreira · Post by **CarlosFerreira** » 21 Feb 2010, 18:42

Paul Hayes wrote:USF1 must be finished now, surely? All that's left is for them to sell their entry to Stefan GP.

Can they do that? I'd assume they don't own the entry, it's for the FIA and the FOTA to agree/disagree on who runs.

Jordan · Post by **Jordan** » 21 Feb 2010, 18:53

I think it's time for USF1 to step aside and make room for the real teams willing to offer Jacques Villeneuve a drive

IdeFan · Post by **IdeFan** » 21 Feb 2010, 21:26

With my F1 Rejects hat on:

I would love to see more than 26 entries. Have 26 spots available on the grid, and drop the bottom 2 (or 4 or whatever) out after saturday morning practice. Alternatively, have pre qualifying sessions on thursdays or friday mornings for the bottom teams. A return to the good old days of DNQ and DNPQ!

With my serious F1 discussion hat on:

With the money that is required simply to run an F1 team, let alone be competitive, I would want my grid spot guaranteed if I were going to enter. This is the same for sponsors, you want to be guaranteed of at least some exposure, so this would suck money away from the small teams and towards the top teams even more so than it already is. This means that you have to guarantee every team grid spots for the whole season, and that means you have to have a hard limit on the size of the grid. From here it is somewhat arbitrary, if they can support 26 then 28 is probably also doable, but you have to draw a line somewhere and they've drawn it at 26.

In this environment if you have a spot you have to turn up to every race or risk forfeit, missing one or two races might be ok, but four is unacceptable, chuck USF1 out and let Stefan GP in! If Stefan GP don't turn up then they also forfeit.

shinji · Post by **shinji** » 21 Feb 2010, 22:56

IdeFan wrote:With my F1 Rejects hat on:

I would love to see more than 26 entries. Have 26 spots available on the grid, and drop the bottom 2 (or 4 or whatever) out after saturday morning practice. Alternatively, have pre qualifying sessions on thursdays or friday mornings for the bottom teams. A return to the good old days of DNQ and DNPQ!

With my serious F1 discussion hat on:

With the money that is required simply to run an F1 team, let alone be competitive, I would want my grid spot guaranteed if I were going to enter. This is the same for sponsors, you want to be guaranteed of at least some exposure, so this would suck money away from the small teams and towards the top teams even more so than it already is. This means that you have to guarantee every team grid spots for the whole season, and that means you have to have a hard limit on the size of the grid. From here it is somewhat arbitrary, if they can support 26 then 28 is probably also doable, but you have to draw a line somewhere and they've drawn it at 26.

In this environment if you have a spot you have to turn up to every race or risk forfeit, missing one or two races might be ok, but four is unacceptable, chuck USF1 out and let Stefan GP in! If Stefan GP don't turn up then they also forfeit.

Both sides of the argument summarised concisely and well.

Also, it seems to be irrelevant now, but if a team were to be allowed miss a few races, it would set a distinct precedent that would very easily become the norm.'Sorry FIA, we're having some financial difficulties, give us a couple o' months and we'll be grand'.

eagleash · Post by **eagleash** » 22 Feb 2010, 11:20

It looks increasingly likely that USF1 are not going to make any races this year, not just the first three.
Sponsors withdrawing & employees going unpaid.
Note to Bernie, it takes 2 phone calls, one to USF1, "in or not?" (perhaps a little leeway in terms of races missed) & 1 to Stefan "can you do Bahrain?" "OK you're in"

Henrique · Post by **Henrique** » 22 Feb 2010, 15:40

http://f1.gpupdate.net/en/formula-1-news/228656/fia-developing-solutions-with-us-f1/

Four options. I doubt they'll survive the penalties.

dr-baker · Post by **dr-baker** » 22 Feb 2010, 17:06

Henrique wrote:http://f1.gpupdate.net/en/formula-1-news/228656/fia-developing-solutions-with-us-f1/

Four options. I doubt they'll survive the penalties.

With these four options being:

...a number of options remain, including:

- obtaining a finished car, such as that built by Dallara for cash-strapped Campos

- merging with another team

- continuing development on own car but facing FIA penalties for missing races

- withdrawing entry completely and reapplying for 2011

Just wanted to comment that this fourth option didn't exactly work for Prodrive...

Salamander · Post by **Salamander** » 22 Feb 2010, 17:30

dr-baker wrote:
Henrique wrote:http://f1.gpupdate.net/en/formula-1-news/228656/fia-developing-solutions-with-us-f1/

Four options. I doubt they'll survive the penalties.

With these four options being:

...a number of options remain, including:

- obtaining a finished car, such as that built by Dallara for cash-strapped Campos

- merging with another team

- continuing development on own car but facing FIA penalties for missing races

- withdrawing entry completely and reapplying for 2011

Just wanted to comment that this fourth option didn't exactly work for Prodrive...

And with Stefan GP in the frame, it probably won't work for USF1 either...

Post by **mario** » 22 Feb 2010, 17:39

dr-baker wrote:
Henrique wrote:http://f1.gpupdate.net/en/formula-1-news/228656/fia-developing-solutions-with-us-f1/

Four options. I doubt they'll survive the penalties.

With these four options being:

...a number of options remain, including:

- obtaining a finished car, such as that built by Dallara for cash-strapped Campos

- merging with another team

- continuing development on own car but facing FIA penalties for missing races

- withdrawing entry completely and reapplying for 2011

Just wanted to comment that this fourth option didn't exactly work for Prodrive...

Thinking about it, now that Campos have been bought out by their biggest shareholder, they should be able to pay Dallara for their car, and since customer cars are banned, they can't simply buy the design of a car off another team. Lola were the only other 3rd party designing a car, but they have since mothballed their plans, so we can discount Option 1.

Option 3 is what they are trying to do now - the only problem is that the penalties (probably fines) would hamper the team quite badly, particularly since they are struggling to raise capital as things stand. So, even if they did manage to get a car built against all odds, the fines could well finish the team off.
Meanwhile, Option 4 (to withdraw and reapply in 2011) has the big risk that they could well be passed over for another team - Lola could well reapply in 2011, or Prodrive could try again and finally get the place they have been trying to bet for years. If anything, the fact that they failed to make it on time first time around would probably increase their chances of being rejected second time around.

So, to my mind, their best chance of remaining in the sport would be Option 2 (to merge with another team). I can already hear the frantic cries for him to merge with Stefan GP (although that team doesn't seem to be able to bring much in terms of sponsorship, and slightly questionable foundations), but Campos could possibly be the better bet (they could share the USF1 facilities in Spain, for example, and they could share contracts with each other to cut costs).

However, this is still pretty desperate stuff from USF1, and this does sound like it will all end in tears (although who's tears is still up for discussion).

Phoenix · Post by **Phoenix** » 22 Feb 2010, 19:37

I agree with mario. Now it would be only a matter of someone (Stefan or Campos, I see more likely the first) wanting to merge with USF1.

eagleash · Post by **eagleash** » 22 Feb 2010, 22:13

I agree a merger would be one solution & the only options would seem to be Stefan or Campos.
Both of these would produce logistical problems just in terms of distance if nothing else.
Also USF1 do not appear to have a car so in effect they will be contributing little if anything to the team effort so we are back to them basically not existing. Which would lead us again to the question of Stefan being granted an entry.

Post by **DemocalypseNow** » 22 Feb 2010, 23:06

eagleash wrote:so in effect they will be contributing little if anything to the team effort so we are back to them basically not existing.

This was my first thought when a merger between them and either Campos or Stefan was proposed...the only asset they have to bring with them is Lopez and his $10m (?) sponsorship...but if the team folds Campos can take him anyway without a costly and time-consuming merger. It makes no sense for the other teams to merge with USF1 when the only thing they will inherit is their problems.

CasinoSquare · Post by **CasinoSquare** » 22 Feb 2010, 23:47

Merger may be an answer but surely we all miss the obvious?

Remember AGS? Osella/Fondmetal? Coloni? Grouillard, Tarquinin and Larini? They all had a single car entry at some point. Why not let USF1 and Stefan enter one car each for the season? Halves their variable costs (although not the fixed ones) and lets us have a little more colour in the form of Mr Stefanovic. If one or other drops out during the season then the other space goes to the remaining combatant. Sort of like an episode of "its a Knockout". And i expect noone bar eagleash will know what that is.

eagleash · Post by **eagleash** » 23 Feb 2010, 04:14

CasinoSquare wrote:Merger may be an answer but surely we all miss the obvious?

Remember AGS? Osella/Fondmetal? Coloni? Grouillard, Tarquinin and Larini? They all had a single car entry at some point. Why not let USF1 and Stefan enter one car each for the season? Halves their variable costs (although not the fixed ones) and lets us have a little more colour in the form of Mr Stefanovic. If one or other drops out during the season then the other space goes to the remaining combatant. Sort of like an episode of "its a Knockout". And i expect noone bar eagleash will know what that is.

It's a bit too much like commonsense to be adopted as a solution. & don't the current regs insist upon 2 car teams. I suppose if all the teams agree then it could happen but it overlooks the fact that USF1 are currently sans racing car.

Would they have to drive round in a huge oversize car with wet tyres in the dry & vice versa. Would the joker be a cardboard cut out of Max Mosley?

CarlosFerreira · Post by **CarlosFerreira** » 23 Feb 2010, 08:39

eagleash wrote:Would the joker be a cardboard cut out of Max Mosley?

BigG80 · Post by **BigG80** » 23 Feb 2010, 10:07

Phoenix wrote:I agree with mario. Now it would be only a matter of someone (Stefan or Campos, I see more likely the first) wanting to merge with USF1.

United Serbian Formula One team anyone?

United States of Serbia Grand Prix?

USS Enterprise?

Phoenix · Post by **Phoenix** » 23 Feb 2010, 14:47

CasinoSquare wrote:Merger may be an answer but surely we all miss the obvious?

Remember AGS? Osella/Fondmetal? Coloni? Grouillard, Tarquinin and Larini? They all had a single car entry at some point. Why not let USF1 and Stefan enter one car each for the season? Halves their variable costs (although not the fixed ones) and lets us have a little more colour in the form of Mr Stefanovic. If one or other drops out during the season then the other space goes to the remaining combatant. Sort of like an episode of "its a Knockout". And i expect noone bar eagleash will know what that is.

No, dude. Those things can't happen today. 2 cars or else.

BigG80 wrote:
Phoenix wrote:I agree with mario. Now it would be only a matter of someone (Stefan or Campos, I see more likely the first) wanting to merge with USF1.

United Serbian Formula One team anyone?

United States of Serbia Grand Prix?

USS Enterprise?

YouTube Stefan USF1 Toyota Cosworth?

Alianora La Canta · Post by **Alianora La Canta** » 23 Feb 2010, 14:48

(duplicate incorrectly-quoted post deleted by author)

Alianora La Canta · Post by **Alianora La Canta** » 23 Feb 2010, 14:48

CarlosFerreira - 16 posts ago wrote:
Paul Hayes wrote:USF1 must be finished now, surely? All that's left is for them to sell their entry to Stefan GP.

Can they do that? I'd assume they don't own the entry, it's for the FIA and the FOTA to agree/disagree on who runs.

USF1 do own the entry and selling the company (the only way to transfer the entry) would get them out of all FIA fines. Of course, the other company would have to make it to the grid in Bahrain to avoid the fate of being fined out of existence itself...

Stefangp · Post by **Stefangp** » 24 Feb 2010, 11:13

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/81664

It's not looking too good for them. The insider puts the blame directly at Ken Anderson and paints a picture of Peter Windsor as someone who was oblivious to the fact of the shenanigans at base.

eagleash · Post by **eagleash** » 24 Feb 2010, 11:50

It is, as has been said before, looking increasingly bleak for USF1 not just for the first four races but all season. I do not see how they can pull things together within any sort of reasonable timescale. It is possible that the same could be said of Campos; has their car actually turned a wheel yet? It is 2.5 weeks to Bahrain & they have yet to run or ask permission for a delay (to my knowledge) (!). Campos may be interested in a merger but I don't at this point see either team running this year. It seems Stefan are almost ready to go but do they really need to merge with USF1? Perhaps the buying out of the entry is the only logical option at this late stage. I cannot see an entry for USf1 being entertained in the future. (Or Campos)

dr-baker · Post by **dr-baker** » 24 Feb 2010, 11:53

Stefangp wrote:http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/81664

That aricle, in its first few paragraphs, states:

Team US F1 backer Chad Hurley is the man who has the best chance of saving the outfit from its current troubles, claims a senior staff member at the American operation.

A senior member of the US F1 operation, who wishes to remain anonymous, thinks that it is Hurley - and not team co-founders Ken Anderson and Peter Windsor - who must now move to turn things around.

Speculation in recent weeks has suggested that Hurley himself is making moves independently of Windsor and Anderson to secure the team's future.

Then the next news article on Autosport:

Jose Maria Lopez's manager Felipe McGough says talks are underway between Campos owner Jose Ramon Carabante and US F1 investor Chad Hurley to secure a deal that will ensure Lopez can race in Formula 1 this year.

With uncertainty surrounding US F1's plans, the American team's already-signed driver Lopez has been linked to a switch to Campos. McGough confirmed that Carabante, who took sole control of Campos last week, and entrepreneur Hurley were trying to find a solution for Lopez.

So Chad Hurley is trying to rescue US F1 by giving away a key asset to a rival team? But if Lopez is a short-term loan to the Campos team, why would Campos be interested in Lopez gaining information about the Dallara only to return to US F1 with it? Something here is ringing alarm bells to me. And which side is Hurley on?

Phoenix · Post by **Phoenix** » 24 Feb 2010, 14:11

How stupid. Not even in Campos Lopez is going to have the certainty he will race in F1 this year...not during all the season, at best. Plus, one thing was big teams to lend a driver to a minor team so they can gain some experience (like Alonso with Minardi), but one struggling...outfit lending a driver to another struggling team seems a bit weird unless USF1 has been planning secretly to take over Campos.

eagleash · Post by **eagleash** » 24 Feb 2010, 14:18

Phoenix wrote:How stupid. Not even in Campos Lopez is going to have the certainty he will race in F1 this year...not during all the season, at best. Plus, one thing was big teams to lend a driver to a minor team so they can gain some experience (like Alonso with Minardi), but one struggling...outfit lending a driver to another struggling team seems a bit weird unless USF1 has been planning secretly to take over Campos.

It seems like to me that if a merger does happen USF1 will be absorbed, contribute nothing & be quietly forgotten. It doesn't seem likely that could be planning to take over another team even a struggling one.

Phoenix · Post by **Phoenix** » 24 Feb 2010, 14:20

eagleash wrote:
Phoenix wrote:How stupid. Not even in Campos Lopez is going to have the certainty he will race in F1 this year...not during all the season, at best. Plus, one thing was big teams to lend a driver to a minor team so they can gain some experience (like Alonso with Minardi), but one struggling...outfit lending a driver to another struggling team seems a bit weird unless USF1 has been planning secretly to take over Campos.

It seems like to me that if a merger does happen USF1 will be absorbed, contribute nothing & be quietly forgotten. It doesn't seem likely that could be planning to take over another team even a struggling one.

And that's why the situation seems more absurd. Or maybe USF1 has already thrown the towel, I don't know...

eagleash · Post by **eagleash** » 24 Feb 2010, 15:32

I think the idea that Chad Hurley just wants to sell the entry & mitigate the fines is possibly the most valid one.

& does anyone actually have any information on Campos in terms of car progress?

Post by **DemocalypseNow** » 24 Feb 2010, 16:39

eagleash wrote:I think the idea that Chad Hurley just wants to sell the entry & mitigate the fines is possibly the most valid one.

& does anyone actually have any information on Campos in terms of car progress?

It's pretty much finished in terms of design for sure...however the missed payments probably meant Dallara deliberately stopped production until they pay up - I'm pretty sure they'll have at least one chassis almost 100%, but the other may well not be...

rffp · Post by **rffp** » 24 Feb 2010, 17:22

Well, the truth, which we already know, is about to surface:
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/81677

The end is near.

Collieafc · Post by **Collieafc** » 25 Feb 2010, 09:44

I will point to my now tired stock quote...

Collieafc wrote:I'm sensing US F1 to be the constructors version of Michael Andretti...

TomWazzleshaw · Post by **TomWazzleshaw** » 25 Feb 2010, 10:38

So Useless F1 is about to bite the dust and Youtube's the only thing that can save them... tell me something I care about :lol:

Well on the bright side I have some good material for the website I have to make in IST at school :mrgreen:

Phoenix · Post by **Phoenix** » 25 Feb 2010, 14:00

Collieafc wrote:I will point to my now tired stock quote...

Collieafc wrote:I'm sensing US F1 to be the constructors version of Michael Andretti...

You're wrong. USF1 isn't even going to show in F1, let alone scoring a podium finish.

Alianora La Canta · Post by **Alianora La Canta** » 25 Feb 2010, 14:18

USF1 look like being the constructors' equivalent of Bertaggia - promise a lot, not last long enough to get into a race, promise a lot after being denied entry to the race only to have the FIA say "No room at the inn, sunshine".

Jordan · Post by **Jordan** » 25 Feb 2010, 16:11

dr-baker wrote:So Chad Hurley is trying to rescue US F1 by giving away a key asset to a rival team? But if Lopez is a short-term loan to the Campos team, why would Campos be interested in Lopez gaining information about the Dallara only to return to US F1 with it? Something here is ringing alarm bells to me. And which side is Hurley on?

Well...when Lopez is what your team has to consider a 'key asset', you're already on a ship that's half sunk

coops · Post by **coops** » 25 Feb 2010, 16:55

Jordan wrote:Well...when Lopez is what your team has to consider a 'key asset', you're already on a ship that's half sunk

I've just been reading that its all over for USF1 now (if this was horse racing they'd be putting a blanket over the horse right about now) and Peter Windsor is unavailable for comment - so its not all bad.

watka · Post by **watka** » 25 Feb 2010, 22:58

Alianora La Canta wrote:USF1 look like being the constructors' equivalent of Bertaggia - promise a lot, not last long enough to get into a race, promise a lot after being denied entry to the race only to have the FIA say "No room at the inn, sunshine".

Nah, they're the constructors' equivalent of '95 Hideki Noda. They down their deposit, then "unforeseen" circumstances ruin them.

Valrys · Post by **Valrys** » 26 Feb 2010, 00:40

Such a shame USF1 might never grace the grid, if this model of their car is anything to go by, they'd have been a pleasent aesthetic addition to the grid if nothing else

danardif1 · Post by **danardif1** » 26 Feb 2010, 01:05

Valrys wrote:Such a shame USF1 might never grace the grid, if this model of their car is anything to go by, they'd have been a pleasent aesthetic addition to the grid if nothing else

It really is a good looking car... add a few dashes of red and white, Pechito in the 22 car, someone else in the other and i'd be happy with that...

Phoenix · Post by **Phoenix** » 26 Feb 2010, 15:07

Valrys wrote:Such a shame USF1 might never grace the grid, if this model of their car is anything to go by, they'd have been a pleasent aesthetic addition to the grid if nothing else

It kinda reminds me of the Campos car...

CarlosFerreira · Post by **CarlosFerreira** » 26 Feb 2010, 16:16

Phoenix wrote:It kinda reminds me of the Campos car...

They both have the gift of invisibility.