Biggest Disappointment?

ibsey · Post by **ibsey** » 27 Feb 2010, 06:04

The season is almost upon us, along with the envitable shocks & surprises of the 1st race. So this got me thinking which driver or team has for you, turned out to be the biggest disappointment in F1 (past or present)?

This could be hype from pre-season testing which didn't translate into race performances.

Or a team / driver which proved to be dissappointing over their entire career.

Off the top of my head, in terms of teams I would have to say Toyota & BAR/Honda. Both had massive budgets, but didn't perform.

Furthermore, I (being a big Alesi fan) was expected great things from Prost in 2000, especially given their great showing at the last race of 1999. You wouldn't believe the number of things I was throwing at the TV that year, when it didn't work out for them. That was one painful year, let me tell you.

In terms of drivers, Hekki is proving to be dissapointing so far, I hope that will change this season. Schumi & the Mercedes is looking a little worrying at the moment as well??? Will he be doing a Nige on us after 5 races???

I remember Trulli & Fischella both being touted as bright young prospects in their earlier years, but never seemed to fully deliever on their promise. Especially Fischella, he looked good in the Benetton in 2001 & Jordan (2002-2003) but when he got the Renault drive, he was just blown away by Alonso.

I will have more of a think about this & post some more examples, but it would be interesting to know your thoughts on this.

TomWazzleshaw · Post by **TomWazzleshaw** » 27 Feb 2010, 06:11

I'm gonna go on a limb here and say that Juan Pablo Montoya disappointed expectiations to an extent over his career. People expected great things from the guy but only 7 wins from 5 seasons in top teams must be a major letdown.
Case of point: 2002. 7 poles, no wins. Enough said

ibsey · Post by **ibsey** » 27 Feb 2010, 06:15

I just remembered, this time last year, I was telling anyone who would listen, BMW & Kubica will be WDC in 2009.

Man how wrong was I. Kubica has got a lot of making up to do this year for me.

thehemogoblin · Post by **thehemogoblin** » 27 Feb 2010, 06:29

Japanese manufacturers. I expected way more out of them than one win between the two.

f1-gast · Post by **f1-gast** » 27 Feb 2010, 07:45

That was in 2002 on this time Verstappen still got a contract with arrows and a week later Frentzen was in the arrows ?
But had the same in 1999 when honda quiet with their project.
if it was continued Verstappen would be deffently world champion in 2000.

TomWazzleshaw · Post by **TomWazzleshaw** » 27 Feb 2010, 08:20

f1-gast wrote:That was in 2002 on this time Verstappen still got a contract with arrows and a week later Frentzen was in the arrows ?
But had the same in 1999 when honda quiet with their project.
if it was continued Verstappen would be deffently world champion in 2000.

Speaking of Jos the Boss he didn't exactly cover himself in Glory in 94 when he was a Benetton did he (Well he was covered in flames at one point but that's irrelevent :lol:

)

FullMetalJack · Post by **FullMetalJack** » 27 Feb 2010, 11:21

Midland, for the simple fact that they killed Jordan and made the whole operation look silly.

CarlosFerreira · Post by **CarlosFerreira** » 27 Feb 2010, 11:48

Honda. After 2006, I expected them to be up there.

watka · Post by **watka** » 27 Feb 2010, 12:55

Zanardi in 1999 (ironically, there's some symmetry between him and Nakajima's 2009 season), Andretti in 1993, and Bourdais in 2008/09. As a team, probably Jaguar were the biggest disappointment in recent years.

coops · Post by **coops** » 27 Feb 2010, 13:45

Too many to list here but i'll note a handful down.

Mansell in 1995
Schumacher fatally wounding Hills' Williams in 1994
Juan-Pablo Montoya doing a runner (via the Tennis court allegedly)
Damon Hill. Arrows. Hungaroring. 1997.

FloProAct · Post by **FloProAct** » 27 Feb 2010, 14:48

I know Prost in 2000 has been mentioned, but I'd like to propose Prost in 2001. Those good testing times came to nought.....

eagleash · Post by **eagleash** » 27 Feb 2010, 15:26

I have always wondered how good Johnny Herbert might have been were it not for his accident in 1988. & on the same theme Allan McNeish's accident in F3000 set his career back years & he never showed the same spark again.
Other disappointments revolve mainly around those cut off in their prime. Eg Elio de Angelis who could handle the Lotus Renault (Igor) as well as Mansell.
Jaguar were a major disappointment after Stewart's showing the previous season, but that has been welll covered on another thread.

Yannick · Post by **Yannick** » 27 Feb 2010, 17:21

Teams that had to quit F1 due to a lack of funding have always left a feeling of disappointment behind when they quit:
March
Lotus (the original one)
Scuderia Italia
Tyrell
Ligier / Prost

I'm not counting in Jordan and Stewart / Jaguar because they lived on in other guises. Toyota will live on as Stefan in a similar fashion.

Waris · Post by **Waris** » 27 Feb 2010, 22:51

Spyker for not signing Tiago Monteiro in 2007.
Edit: speaking of not signing, something with Luca Badoer and Ferrari...

FullMetalJack · Post by **FullMetalJack** » 27 Feb 2010, 23:26

Waris wrote:Spyker for not signing Tiago Monteiro in 2007.
Edit: speaking of not signing, something with Luca Badoer and Ferrari...

To be honest, Christijan Albers had drove much better than Tiago Monteiro in 2006, plus Spyker wanted a Dutch driver.

TeamTipper · Post by **TeamTipper** » 28 Feb 2010, 01:15

Mine is BMW Williams 2000-2005. Yes wins and poles but horror reliableilty in 2001-2002 where the car was the fastest but never got serious results. 2005 was a good start and looking quite good but a complete was of a season for Webber. 2004 was a waste.
To blame Williams or BMW?
I have to say is who has left F1 last year?

Cynon · Post by **Cynon** » 28 Feb 2010, 02:02

Michael Andretti. I don't need to explain why.

cretoxyrhina · Post by **cretoxyrhina** » 28 Feb 2010, 11:31

Minardi on 2004. They should won the world championship with a certain Hungarian driver. *avoiding papayas*

Seriously:
Damon Hill, Hungarian GP 1997 (conspiracy aside).
The whole Jan Magnussen saga.
Anthony Davidson, Montreal 2007.

ibsey · Post by **ibsey** » 28 Feb 2010, 12:12

In terms of race disappointment, being a Jean Alesi fan, you can image there was quite a few for me. The main ones however were;

Italy 1995 - The last time a no. 27 Ferrari ran at Monza.

Beligum 1995 - Jean was in spectacular sideways form throughout pratice & qualifying (& the 3 laps of the race he did, before the car packed up).

Japan 1995 - Jean was ON FIRE in that race.

Monaco 1996 - Winning might have installed much needed confidence to Jean & Bennetton. Who knows what that could have led to?

Canada 1998 & 1999 - Taken out by Trulli at the start three times in two years. Especially when Jean could have gotten podiums results in a Sauber.

Other than Jean Alesi a major race disappointment I can vividly remember is

Austria 1997 - Pedro Diniz in qualifying. He had one engine blow in his race car and one engine blow in his spare so he couldn't set a decent time. However he had been fastest in saturday morning pratice!!!

Those are the ones that immediately spring to mind.

FullMetalJack · Post by **FullMetalJack** » 28 Feb 2010, 17:10

Ivan Capelli not winning at Paul Ricard in 1990. Especially when he and the great Mauricio Gugelmin were running 1-2 at one point.

Enforcer · Post by **Enforcer** » 28 Feb 2010, 22:04

Probably Hill in 1999. One of my favourite drivers, driving for my favourite team. I know the guy was pushing 40, and Frenzen was inspired that seasons, but he was competitive in 1998, so I thought he'd at least rack up 30-40 points.

JJMonty · Post by **JJMonty** » 01 Mar 2010, 09:20

Terms of teams? Gotta be Toyota and BAR/Honda.... huge budgets and nothing to show for it!

I remember 2006, Honda quickest in most test sessions and Nick Fry coming up with his usual comments in his ultra ego style.... yet 1 win (dare I suggest flukish win?) and alot of problems for both drivers trying to set up the car perfectly!

Jaguar and Prost are also disapointments in my opinion, 2000 for prost was just a joke! And by 2001, quick car but no budget to keep it fast during the year (will never forget Alesi in Canada that year, throwing his helmet into the crowd he was that happy!)

As for Jaguar.... although they had more success with Webber, I did prefer the team when Irvine was there.... while it wasn't the most competitive of teams, at least you would be entertained by Irvine... both driving and post race comments!

However for drivers.... Hill and Villeneuve have to be the ones that come to mind first, but then again it didnt suprise me, they were more suited to the Slick era of F1.... By 1999 they were both struggling on the grooved tyres and because aero grip was taking over mechanical grip!

However the biggest disapointment? This will be a controversial one.... Jenson Button, Yes I know he won the championship... but it took him long enough!!! So much hype for the lad when he first showed up in 2000, and can only imagine what would of happened had he stayed with them in 2001! But after several years in uncompetitive cars, I thought he was another wasted talent, moaning every race at how poor the car is (even at some points during 2009!)... but how much of his title in 2009 was through a great driver? I won't take his credit away because he does deserve it! But I can't help but feel that had he made better decisions earlier in his career.... or even shut up and got on with developing the car (that seemed to become Barrichello's job), he could have been champion about 4/5 years ago!

TomWazzleshaw · Post by **TomWazzleshaw** » 01 Mar 2010, 10:22

JJMonty wrote:However the biggest disapointment? This will be a controversial one.... Jenson Button, Yes I know he won the championship... but it took him long enough!!! So much hype for the lad when he first showed up in 2000, and can only imagine what would of happened had he stayed with them in 2001! But after several years in uncompetitive cars, I thought he was another wasted talent, moaning every race at how poor the car is (even at some points during 2009!)... but how much of his title in 2009 was through a great driver? I won't take his credit away because he does deserve it! But I can't help but feel that had he made better decisions earlier in his career.... or even shut up and got on with developing the car (that seemed to become Barrichello's job), he could have been champion about 4/5 years ago!

Bingo! Someone give this man a beer.

ibsey · Post by **ibsey** » 01 Mar 2010, 11:15

Yes I do agree Button had been disappointing in the early part of his career, considering all the hype he recieved. If this topic was discussed a year ago (i.e. before Button & Brawn started winning) I'm sure loads of other people would have stated the same opinion.

Having said that it does SEEM he is turning that around now, and learning to shut up and get on with developing the car these days (i.e. preseason testing at Mclaren, I haven't heard him whinge once). So we can only speculate that he has learnt from his mistakes in the past and starting to fulfil the hype. I hope so & I am very much looking forwarded to how he handles Hamilton as his teammate this year.

Tommy Byrne should also get a special mention in this thread, not for being a "disappointing driver" but a "major disappointment that he never got the chance he deserved in F1" perhaps?

I was reading about him last night and he seemed to have bags of talent. For instance he was highly successful in the lower categogies and Eddie Jordan reckoned he was better than Schumi & Senna & I understand that he blew Boutsen away in their 1st test together with Mclaren in 1983.

I don't know the reasons as to why he didn't become successful in F1 yet as I haven't read his book yet (which I can't wait to read now). However from what I understand he got stuffed over by Theodore in 1983. I would be extermely grateful if someone can confirm / correct me on this however?

Anyway, for someone to have been that naturally gifted but never get the break in F1 that his talent deserved seems such a crime to me? F1 lost out by letting him slip through the net in my opinion.

Collieafc · Post by **Collieafc** » 01 Mar 2010, 11:30

Wizzie wrote:
JJMonty wrote:However the biggest disapointment? This will be a controversial one.... Jenson Button, Yes I know he won the championship... but it took him long enough!!! So much hype for the lad when he first showed up in 2000, and can only imagine what would of happened had he stayed with them in 2001! But after several years in uncompetitive cars, I thought he was another wasted talent, moaning every race at how poor the car is (even at some points during 2009!)... but how much of his title in 2009 was through a great driver? I won't take his credit away because he does deserve it! But I can't help but feel that had he made better decisions earlier in his career.... or even shut up and got on with developing the car (that seemed to become Barrichello's job), he could have been champion about 4/5 years ago!

Bingo! Someone give this man a beer.

Make it two

rffp · Post by **rffp** » 01 Mar 2010, 13:21

BMW Sauber in 2009, what a disaster.
They made it to the cover of F1 Racing as the 2009 champions...

Robert Kubica is on the path of disappointment too.

BigG80 · Post by **BigG80** » 01 Mar 2010, 13:41

ibsey wrote:Tommy Byrne should also get a special mention in this thread, not for being a "disappointing driver" but a "major disappointment that he never got the chance he deserved in F1" perhaps?

I was reading about him last night and he seemed to have bags of talent. For instance he was highly successful in the lower categogies and Eddie Jordan reckoned he was better than Schumi & Senna & I understand that he blew Boutsen away in their 1st test together with Mclaren in 1983.

I don't know the reasons as to why he didn't become successful in F1 yet as I haven't read his book yet (which I can't wait to read now). However from what I understand he got stuffed over by Theodore in 1983. I would be extermely grateful if someone can confirm / correct me on this however?

Anyway, for someone to have been that naturally gifted but never get the break in F1 that his talent deserved seems such a crime to me? F1 lost out by letting him slip through the net in my opinion.

Tommy Byrne's book is excellent. I got it for Christmas and its a total page turner. Contrast that with Jackie Stewart's book which I found to be a lot more of a hard slog.

Byrne contends that he didn't get the McLaren drive as he wasn't Ron Dennis's preferred type of driver being a rough round the edges salt of the earth kind of man with a mouth to match!

He also mentions that Theodore used to have one fairly decent chassis and one fairly decent engine but the boss refused to listen to Byrne and wouldn't combine the two. Subsequently the car was hopeless and Byrne contends that they potentially missed out on points as a result.

Faustus · Post by **Faustus** » 01 Mar 2010, 15:42

ibsey wrote:In terms of race disappointment, being a Jean Alesi fan, you can image there was quite a few for me. The main ones however were;

Italy 1995 - The last time a no. 27 Ferrari ran at Monza.

Beligum 1995 - Jean was in spectacular sideways form throughout pratice & qualifying (& the 3 laps of the race he did, before the car packed up).

Japan 1995 - Jean was ON FIRE in that race.

Monaco 1996 - Winning might have installed much needed confidence to Jean & Bennetton. Who knows what that could have led to?

Canada 1998 & 1999 - Taken out by Trulli at the start three times in two years. Especially when Jean could have gotten podiums results in a Sauber.

Other than Jean Alesi a major race disappointment I can vividly remember is

Austria 1997 - Pedro Diniz in qualifying. He had one engine blow in his race car and one engine blow in his spare so he couldn't set a decent time. However he had been fastest in saturday morning pratice!!!

Those are the ones that immediately spring to mind.

Monza 1994 as well. He was leading by a comfortable margin, pulls into the pits for the first pitstop and the clutch dies.

Faustus · Post by **Faustus** » 01 Mar 2010, 15:45

Frentzen not winning the championship in 1999. He came so close and it really tore him up, even 3 years later he blamed himself for it.

ADx_Wales · Post by **ADx_Wales** » 01 Mar 2010, 15:51

The demand for overtaking in F1.

As if races pre-schumacher were ALL races where you were able to overtake.

ibsey · Post by **ibsey** » 01 Mar 2010, 17:33

Faustus wrote:Frentzen not winning the championship in 1999. He came so close and it really tore him up, even 3 years later he blamed himself for it.

I thought Frentzen performed well in 1999, perhaps showing us a glimse of what ability he did have given the right circumstances. Did he really blame himself for not winning the 1999 WDC?

Suprising, when I look back on it, I'm not sure how much more he could have squeezed out of the Jordan. I heard the Nurburgring "mechical failure" Frentzen suffered was the same fault Damon suffered at the start of the race. But I wouldn't blame Frentzen for that, I would be more inclined to blame the team, for not identifying / retifying this fault during the race. Apart from that, I can't think what else they did wrong?
In anycase I was tempted to say Frentzen was a little disappointing throughout his F1 career (apart from 1999 of course) especially when you consider the hype from Mercedes Sportscars & the Williams years. I would also be interested to know what REALLY happened between him & EJ in summer 2001, that led to Frentzen being sacked just prior to Germany GP? Does anyone know the answer, that one has bugged me for years?

Phoenix · Post by **Phoenix** » 01 Mar 2010, 22:34

ibsey wrote:
Faustus wrote:Frentzen not winning the championship in 1999. He came so close and it really tore him up, even 3 years later he blamed himself for it.

I thought Frentzen performed well in 1999, perhaps showing us a glimse of what ability he did have given the right circumstances. Did he really blame himself for not winning the 1999 WDC?

Suprising, when I look back on it, I'm not sure how much more he could have squeezed out of the Jordan. I heard the Nurburgring "mechical failure" Frentzen suffered was the same fault Damon suffered at the start of the race. But I wouldn't blame Frentzen for that, I would be more inclined to blame the team, for not identifying / retifying this fault during the race. Apart from that, I can't think what else they did wrong?
In anycase I was tempted to say Frentzen was a little disappointing throughout his F1 career (apart from 1999 of course) especially when you consider the hype from Mercedes Sportscars & the Williams years. I would also be interested to know what REALLY happened between him & EJ in summer 2001, that led to Frentzen being sacked just prior to Germany GP? Does anyone know the answer, that one has bugged me for years?

All I know is he had disagreements with the technical direction of the team. Added to his poor results, it could be the cause of his sacking.

JJMonty · Post by **JJMonty** » 01 Mar 2010, 23:26

Collieafc wrote:
Wizzie wrote:
JJMonty wrote:However the biggest disapointment? This will be a controversial one.... Jenson Button, Yes I know he won the championship... but it took him long enough!!! So much hype for the lad when he first showed up in 2000, and can only imagine what would of happened had he stayed with them in 2001! But after several years in uncompetitive cars, I thought he was another wasted talent, moaning every race at how poor the car is (even at some points during 2009!)... but how much of his title in 2009 was through a great driver? I won't take his credit away because he does deserve it! But I can't help but feel that had he made better decisions earlier in his career.... or even shut up and got on with developing the car (that seemed to become Barrichello's job), he could have been champion about 4/5 years ago!

Bingo! Someone give this man a beer.

Make it two

Nice to see some people agree with me then!

ADx_Wales · Post by **ADx_Wales** » 02 Mar 2010, 13:10

Button took less time than Mansell, to win a title anyway, but the gap between first win and first title is even steeper for our Nige'. However Jenson has been in the running for the title only once... But he actually won it, unlike Mansell who had been in contention only to fall when he needed to clinch it, three times before romping it on his fourth.

WeirdKerr · Post by **WeirdKerr** » 02 Mar 2010, 20:04

Biggest Dissapointment: Frentzen in a Williams.... nuf said....

Phoenix · Post by **Phoenix** » 03 Mar 2010, 14:49

WeirdKerr wrote:Biggest Dissapointment: Alesi in a Ferrari.... nuf said....

Fixed.

Waris · Post by **Waris** » 04 Mar 2010, 01:57

Phoenix wrote:
WeirdKerr wrote:Biggest Dissapointment: Capelli in a Ferrari.... nuf said....

Fixed.

Fixed.

thehemogoblin · Post by **thehemogoblin** » 04 Mar 2010, 10:49

Waris wrote:
Phoenix wrote:
WeirdKerr wrote:Biggest Dissapointment: Italians in a Ferrari.... nuf said....

Fixed.

Fixed.

Fixed.

TomWazzleshaw · Post by **TomWazzleshaw** » 04 Mar 2010, 10:50

thehemogoblin wrote:
Waris wrote:
WeirdKerr wrote:Biggest Dissapointment: Anyone who isn't HWNSNBM.... nuf said....

Fixed.

Fixed.

Fixed.

Phoenix · Post by **Phoenix** » 04 Mar 2010, 19:02

Wizzie wrote:Biggest Dissapointment: Anyone who isn't HWNSNBM.... nuf said....

Not being HWNSNBM is not a disappointment. It's absolutely normal.