2017 Azerbaijan Grand Prix 23-25 June

UncreativeUsername37 · Post by **UncreativeUsername37** » 25 Jun 2017, 15:13

sswishbone wrote:The IIDOTR topic is gonna have a tonne of honourable mentions this week but no one can look past Stroll, well done to get third, just a shame that Bottas pulled the tiny bit needed on the last lap!

ROTR will be similar: pretty much the whole field deserves it, yet simultaneously there's one obvious winner....

GerhardTalger · Post by **GerhardTalger** » 25 Jun 2017, 15:16

UgncreativeUsergname wrote:
sswishbone wrote:The IIDOTR topic is gonna have a tonne of honourable mentions this week but no one can look past Stroll, well done to get third, just a shame that Bottas pulled the tiny bit needed on the last lap!

ROTR will be similar: pretty much the whole field deserves it, yet simultaneously there's one obvious winner....

Well, in my view it is disputed between Ocon and Vettel, who basically binned victories with their crazy actions.

dr-baker · Post by **dr-baker** » 25 Jun 2017, 15:18

Best podium of the year so far, and it'll be hard to beat, unless a McLaren or Sauber can get up there!

Post by **mario** » 25 Jun 2017, 15:24

East Londoner wrote:Personally I'd throw the book at both of them. You can't brake test behind the SC, and you definitely shouldn't retaliate. They're driving like a bunch of rock apes out there.

And well, it would mean Williams fighting for the win. Yes, I'm totally impartial here.

From the onboard footage, Hamilton kept a constant throttle position - it looks more like he was trying to back the pack up to let the safety car pull away from him, but Vettel expected him to put his foot down and was carrying a bit too much speed through the corner. I'm disappointed that Vettel chose to react in that way on track, but sadly not entirely surprised given that, as we have seen in the past, he does seem a bit prone to losing his temper a bit behind the wheel.

That was, all in all, a very strange race and one where I think we'll be trying to make sense of it for weeks to come - still, the upside is that podium finish is going to surely give Stroll a big confidence boost, and a well earned one as well.

dinizintheoven · Post by **dinizintheoven** » 25 Jun 2017, 15:37

Oh, Lance. You get your first podium out of the blue, but why did it have to be with Daniel Ricciardo standing on the top step? You knew what that meant. Let's hope you're not scarred for life.

sswishbone · Post by **sswishbone** » 25 Jun 2017, 15:43

How can Vettel still not understand, it is not going into the back of Hamilton that got you the penalty, it was you deliberately turning into him! That's dangerous driving!

good_Ralf · Post by **good_Ralf** » 25 Jun 2017, 15:44

EPIC race, almost certainly my favourite of the hybrid era. Actually, this might even beat Canada 2011 for me. Awesome considering the reputation Baku got after last year's race. This one had everything, even a shock podium result (which didn't happen in CAN 2011).

Post by **Londoner** » 25 Jun 2017, 15:46

I personally would like to see Hamilton vs Vettel in a No Holds Barred Street Fight at the next Wrestlemania, with Mick Foley as special guest referee. Book it, Vince.

DonTirri · Post by **DonTirri** » 25 Jun 2017, 15:57

bathplug Hamilton. How the hell he escaped penalty is beyond me.
And then he had the balls to tell the team to order Valtteri to slow down.

EDIT: Oh screw you Simtek. I'm entitled to my opinion AND entitled to post it.

Post by **mario** » 25 Jun 2017, 15:59

I guess that we had been wondering how long it would be before things between Hamilton and Vettel did start to sour, and I think that this is going to be the trigger.

That said, their bitterness is probably nothing to what Verstappen is feeling right now - he probably would have won without his retirement, and now he has to watch the bitter sight of his team mate taking the win whilst he goes home with nothing yet again. I wouldn't be surprised if, at this rate, Verstappen begins to start making some overt approaches to other teams - he was already pretty angry before this weekend, but this might just be the final straw for him.

sswishbone · Post by **sswishbone** » 25 Jun 2017, 16:06

East Londoner wrote:I personally would like to see Hamilton vs Vettel in a No Holds Barred Street Fight at the next Wrestlemania, with Mick Foley as special guest referee. Book it, Vince.

Bah Gawd!!!

dr-baker · Post by **dr-baker** » 25 Jun 2017, 16:18

LOL!!!

Enforcer · Post by **Enforcer** » 25 Jun 2017, 19:34

mario wrote:
East Londoner wrote:Personally I'd throw the book at both of them. You can't brake test behind the SC, and you definitely shouldn't retaliate. They're driving like a bunch of rock apes out there.

And well, it would mean Williams fighting for the win. Yes, I'm totally impartial here.

From the onboard footage, Hamilton kept a constant throttle position - it looks more like he was trying to back the pack up to let the safety car pull away from him, but Vettel expected him to put his foot down and was carrying a bit too much speed through the corner. I'm disappointed that Vettel chose to react in that way on track, but sadly not entirely surprised given that, as we have seen in the past, he does seem a bit prone to losing his temper a bit behind the wheel.

That was, all in all, a very strange race and one where I think we'll be trying to make sense of it for weeks to come - still, the upside is that podium finish is going to surely give Stroll a big confidence boost, and a well earned one as well.

Hamilton had backed up a little to let the safety car go and then realised as he rounded the corner that he hadn't let it go enough, under those circumstances it's counter intuitive for him not to accelerate in an acceleration zone, especially since the drivers behind him aren't going to see that the safety car is still there as they clear the apex.

Would've been interesting had Vettel not made the decision easy for the stewards by deliberately bumping Hamilton, although I still don't think it there was enough in it to justify a penalty for Hamilton.

EDIT: Can help but grin at Vettel's "Formula One is for grown-ups." comment whilst the Drivers' Championship is being contended by two giant babies.

Post by **mario** » 25 Jun 2017, 20:06

Enforcer wrote:
mario wrote:
East Londoner wrote:Personally I'd throw the book at both of them. You can't brake test behind the SC, and you definitely shouldn't retaliate. They're driving like a bunch of rock apes out there.

And well, it would mean Williams fighting for the win. Yes, I'm totally impartial here.

From the onboard footage, Hamilton kept a constant throttle position - it looks more like he was trying to back the pack up to let the safety car pull away from him, but Vettel expected him to put his foot down and was carrying a bit too much speed through the corner. I'm disappointed that Vettel chose to react in that way on track, but sadly not entirely surprised given that, as we have seen in the past, he does seem a bit prone to losing his temper a bit behind the wheel.

That was, all in all, a very strange race and one where I think we'll be trying to make sense of it for weeks to come - still, the upside is that podium finish is going to surely give Stroll a big confidence boost, and a well earned one as well.

Hamilton had backed up a little to let the safety car go and then realised as he rounded the corner that he hadn't let it go enough, under those circumstances it's counter intuitive for him not to accelerate in an acceleration zone, especially since the drivers behind him aren't going to see that the safety car is still there as they clear the apex.

Would've been interesting had Vettel not made the decision easy for the stewards by deliberately bumping Hamilton, although I still don't think it there was enough in it to justify a penalty for Hamilton.

On the other hand, Vettel's comments in interviews after the race indicated that Hamilton had been consistently taking it slowly through that particular corner on previous laps. Auto Motor und Sport seem to have also got hold of Hamilton's telemetry and are saying that Hamilton also appears to have driven similarly during that safety car period, not just on that particular lap.

Whilst I do agree that, under normal circumstances, Vettel might have expected Hamilton to accelerate harder out of that corner, if Hamilton had been consistently taking it slowly through that corner during the preceding laps, there is an argument that perhaps it shouldn't have been entirely unexpected for Hamilton to not accelerate hard out of that corner.

UncreativeUsername37 · Post by **UncreativeUsername37** » 26 Jun 2017, 01:16

mario wrote:
Enforcer wrote:Hamilton had backed up a little to let the safety car go and then realised as he rounded the corner that he hadn't let it go enough, under those circumstances it's counter intuitive for him not to accelerate in an acceleration zone, especially since the drivers behind him aren't going to see that the safety car is still there as they clear the apex.

Would've been interesting had Vettel not made the decision easy for the stewards by deliberately bumping Hamilton, although I still don't think it there was enough in it to justify a penalty for Hamilton.

On the other hand, Vettel's comments in interviews after the race indicated that Hamilton had been consistently taking it slowly through that particular corner on previous laps. Auto Motor und Sport seem to have also got hold of Hamilton's telemetry and are saying that Hamilton also appears to have driven similarly during that safety car period, not just on that particular lap.

Whilst I do agree that, under normal circumstances, Vettel might have expected Hamilton to accelerate harder out of that corner, if Hamilton had been consistently taking it slowly through that corner during the preceding laps, there is an argument that perhaps it shouldn't have been entirely unexpected for Hamilton to not accelerate hard out of that corner.

And not accelerating unexpectedly isn't the same thing as braking unexpectedly anyway. It was Vettel's job to react to what Hamilton did and there's no excuse for not being able to deal with a reasonably constant speed.

CoopsII · Post by **CoopsII** » 26 Jun 2017, 05:57

Great race, really exciting. For all that these drivers are meant to exemplify the pinnacle of motorsport sometimes you really just need them all to act like knobheads to produce great entertainment, and that's what we had by the bucketload yesterday. I don't think Hamilton brake-tested Vettel but I do think he was pissing about, as is his right. Equally, I'm actually not convinced Vettel intended to clout Hamilton as hard as he did I think he was, again, pissing about.

Brilliant stuff, passionate and human. I don't agree with Hamiltons 'What about the children?' guff in a post-race interview. You really shouldn't try to use sportsmen in this day and age to help bring up your children, to teach them life lessons or to show them the right way to behave, bring them up yourself, that's your job. Sportsmen and women are there to provide entertainment and that's what we had yesterday.

Jan Magnussen · Post by **Rob Dylan** » 26 Jun 2017, 10:03

Well now that I'm back in the UK, that was the first race I've seen live on an actual television this year. And what a race! I think just every team had their own hilarious - usually rejectful - story to take out of the race weekend! Fantastic.

Nessafox · Post by **Nessafox** » 26 Jun 2017, 18:08

Got to feel bad for Renautl, they're the only team not scoring points in this race...

Dj_bereta · Post by **Dj_bereta** » 27 Jun 2017, 03:58

I feel bad for Force India too, having a Hamilton vs Rosberg situation while running in the front of middlefield. Considering how poor Red Bull reliability is in this year, I think the team threw away a shot of fighting for the 3rd position in this year.

Also, I think Checo is burning bridges with Ferrari in this year with his over aggressiveness towards his team mate. And considering how inconsistent Sainz and Grosjean are in this year, I think Ferrari maybe change their plans and hire either the youngsters Giovinazzi/Leclerc or Bottas from Mercedes.

Nessafox · Post by **Nessafox** » 27 Jun 2017, 05:34

Well theres the rumours Max is so fed up with Red bulls reliability he might go to Ferrari as well.

I also heared the race commentators saying something about Vettels contract demands including 'Kimi stays'.

Co-commentator was Pierre Gasly i think. Walloon tv has some nice co-commentors, in canada Bertrand 'hype' gachot was co-commentating.

Aislabie · Post by **Aislabie** » 27 Jun 2017, 07:13

Aislabie wrote:
Aislabie wrote:Anyone want tickets for the Red Bull hype train?

Never mind.

Saying that...

Salamander · Post by **Salamander** » 27 Jun 2017, 09:43

Controversial Jacques sticks his neck on the line again...

Dj_bereta · Post by **Dj_bereta** » 27 Jun 2017, 19:43

Well, Villeneuve has experience in hitting other drivers.

CoopsII · Post by **CoopsII** » 28 Jun 2017, 07:20

Salamander wrote:Controversial Jacques sticks his neck on the line again...

I wish he'd just stick to making sweet, sweet music.

Fetzie · Post by **Fetzie** » 28 Jun 2017, 07:29

According to this, Todt is considering dragging Vettel in front of an fia tribunal because he isn't pleased with his conduct and the race stewards decision to not black flag Vettel.

https://www.motorsportweek.com/news/id/15111

Jan Magnussen · Post by **Rob Dylan** » 28 Jun 2017, 10:26

"Vettel's punishment was lenient", but putting him in a kangaroo court whilst Hamilton gets off completely Scot-free? I'm pretty certain there were two drivers involved in that incident, and I'm pretty certain Vettel's anger was fuelled by something. It's not like Hamilton was just strolling through the park and Vettel decided he'd just ram him from the side. I'm pretty certain most of you guys know I don't even like Vettel, but holy moly would it be stupid to add any further punishment to something that has already had punishment thrown on it.

But then again, that's just my opinion.

Enforcer · Post by **Enforcer** » 28 Jun 2017, 16:39

As I said, Hamilton failing to press the accelerator was counter-intuitive and it's easy to understand how Vettel would be angry with it, but most drivers manage to deal with their anger without deliberately causing a collision. And Hamilton's not the first driver to coast out of corners under the safety car, he won't be the last, and I don't think what he did quite warranted a penalty. And my dislike of Hamilton should be well known at this stage.

That being said, whilst I agree with Todt that Vettel got off lightly for deliberately ramming someone in a childish temper, punishing him further at this point is not the right thing to do. If you're letting the stewards decide the punishment on the day, then imo, you have to stand over their decision. They decided it deserved a 10 second penalty and three points on his licence, so you leave it there. If you're not happy, you issue direction to stewards that in the future, if a driver deliberately rams another one, you issue a black flag or whatever you think should've happened. You don't retroactively punish the driver a second time.

Fetzie · Post by **Fetzie** » 28 Jun 2017, 17:08

Rob Dylan wrote:"Vettel's punishment was lenient", but putting him in a kangaroo court whilst Hamilton gets off completely Scot-free? I'm pretty certain there were two drivers involved in that incident, and I'm pretty certain Vettel's anger was fuelled by something. It's not like Hamilton was just strolling through the park and Vettel decided he'd just ram him from the side. I'm pretty certain most of you guys know I don't even like Vettel, but holy moly would it be stupid to add any further punishment to something that has already had punishment thrown on it.

But then again, that's just my opinion.

The FIA said that Hamilton neither sped up nor slow down, and that his telemetry showed he drove around that corner in the same manner that he did on the previous restarts. As far as the rules are concerned, he drove as he should have.

Vettel drove into the back of Hamilton because he assumed Hamilton would accelerate out of the turn, apparently forgetting that the lead car sets the pace.

What I do think needs to be looked into is the assertion that the stewards did not DQ Vettel because he is a title contender.

Post by **mario** » 28 Jun 2017, 19:18

Fetzie wrote:
Rob Dylan wrote:"Vettel's punishment was lenient", but putting him in a kangaroo court whilst Hamilton gets off completely Scot-free? I'm pretty certain there were two drivers involved in that incident, and I'm pretty certain Vettel's anger was fuelled by something. It's not like Hamilton was just strolling through the park and Vettel decided he'd just ram him from the side. I'm pretty certain most of you guys know I don't even like Vettel, but holy moly would it be stupid to add any further punishment to something that has already had punishment thrown on it.

But then again, that's just my opinion.

The FIA said that Hamilton neither sped up nor slow down, and that his telemetry showed he drove around that corner in the same manner that he did on the previous restarts. As far as the rules are concerned, he drove as he should have.

Vettel drove into the back of Hamilton because he assumed Hamilton would accelerate out of the turn, apparently forgetting that the lead car sets the pace.

What I do think needs to be looked into is the assertion that the stewards did not DQ Vettel because he is a title contender.

I do agree that the claim that the stewards in that race felt deterred from issuing a DSQ for his conduct is potentially part of the reason why Todt is opening up the enquiry. If that were true, that could potentially invite those drivers fighting for the championship to push the rules even further if they thought that the stewards were cowed by the prospect of taking overly harsh action against them, and I suspect that Todt does not want to set that precedent.

Indeed, in a number of ways it feels like Todt is flexing the muscles of the FIA as a way of keeping the drivers in check, and perhaps Vettel in particular. As has been pointed out elsewhere, it is just under eight months since Vettel was warned that he could face further disciplinary action for his tirade of abuse against Whiting in the Mexican GP, and his public complaints after the race that Hamilton was brake testing him is, indirectly, effectively questioning the judgement and authority of the FIA.

Wallio · Post by **Wallio** » 28 Jun 2017, 21:49

Fetzie wrote:According to this, Todt is considering dragging Vettel in front of an fia tribunal because he isn't pleased with his conduct and the race stewards decision to not black flag Vettel.

https://www.motorsportweek.com/news/id/15111

And myself, and everyone else in America, is like "What's the big deal?". Bet Liberty puts pressure on Todt to drop it. Its the most in the news F1 has been in years. And there is no such thing as bad PR.

Fetzie · Post by **Fetzie** » 28 Jun 2017, 22:52

Wallio wrote:
Fetzie wrote:According to this, Todt is considering dragging Vettel in front of an fia tribunal because he isn't pleased with his conduct and the race stewards decision to not black flag Vettel.

https://www.motorsportweek.com/news/id/15111

And myself, and everyone else in America, is like "What's the big deal?". Bet Liberty puts pressure on Todt to drop it. Its the most in the news F1 has been in years. And there is no such thing as bad PR.

I think that Vettel is going to be made an example of by the FIA. They have to put a stop to the idea that a driver can be above the rules. You can't have drivers in Formula One thinking that they can deliberately drive into another car and get away with a stop and go penalty (or less) all while publically questioning why the stewards penalized him, and even after the race not acknowledging that he drove dangerously.

This incident was fairly tame because it happened at a very low speed. If the cars had been going much faster, Vettel would have risked breaking the suspension or steering rack on either his own or Hamilton's car, which would have caused an absolutely catastrophic incident on that 350 kph straight.

A hit like that would be brushed off in a sport like touring car racing because the risk of a follow-up incident is fairly low. But in open-wheel racing the two cars can get tangled up and one can end up being launched over the other, and while they have roll-cages, an injury to a driver is a real possibility.

Nessafox · Post by **Nessafox** » 29 Jun 2017, 01:28

I think the fact that he publicly questions the stewards decision is the thing that triggered the FIA the most. If he would just accept the penalty, there would be no issue with the FIA.

Wallio · Post by **Wallio** » 29 Jun 2017, 16:39

Fetzie wrote:
This incident was fairly tame because it happened at a very low speed. If the cars had been going much faster, Vettel would have risked breaking the suspension or steering rack on either his own or Hamilton's car, which would have caused an absolutely catastrophic incident on that 350 kph straight.

See that's why I don't think ts a big deal. In America, you're told to "pick your spot". Hitting someone at 50mph under yellow is one thing, hitting them at 150 is another. Its not like Jerezgate when they were both WFO mid-corner.

I also think it hurts that he hit Hammie. Taking a shot at a series' most popular driver never ends well. If it was say, Alonso, I doubt there would be as a big an outcry.

Post by **mario** » 29 Jun 2017, 17:31

Wallio wrote:
Fetzie wrote:
This incident was fairly tame because it happened at a very low speed. If the cars had been going much faster, Vettel would have risked breaking the suspension or steering rack on either his own or Hamilton's car, which would have caused an absolutely catastrophic incident on that 350 kph straight.

See that's why I don't think ts a big deal. In America, you're told to "pick your spot". Hitting someone at 50mph under yellow is one thing, hitting them at 150 is another. Its not like Jerezgate when they were both WFO mid-corner.

I also think it hurts that he hit Hammie. Taking a shot at a series' most popular driver never ends well. If it was say, Alonso, I doubt there would be as a big an outcry.

I think that, if Vettel had decided to ram Alonso instead, there probably would have been a similarly large outcry - the recent survey by the Motorsport network indicated that Alonso is the second most popular driver on the grid and not that far behind Hamilton in terms of total support.

Wallio · Post by **Wallio** » 29 Jun 2017, 19:04

mario wrote:I think that, if Vettel had decided to ram Alonso instead, there probably would have been a similarly large outcry - the recent survey by the Motorsport network indicated that Alonso is the second most popular driver on the grid and not that far behind Hamilton in terms of total support.

Well damn. You learn something new everyday. I would have guessed Kimi or Massa myself.

Klon · Post by **Klon** » 29 Jun 2017, 20:12

Wallio wrote:
mario wrote:I think that, if Vettel had decided to ram Alonso instead, there probably would have been a similarly large outcry - the recent survey by the Motorsport network indicated that Alonso is the second most popular driver on the grid and not that far behind Hamilton in terms of total support.

Well damn. You learn something new everyday. I would have guessed Kimi or Massa myself.

Problem with Kimi is that he has been underperforming to his level of talent for a while now. Whilst sports fan can accept mediocrity, if said mediocrity works hard enough and/or is charming (see: Tebow, Tim), they are not particularly fond of people who perform below expectations. Therefore, the fact that Räikkönen has not won a race in four years must surely have hurt his standing with the casual audience.
Massa on the other hand simply doesn't have the sympathy bonus from 2008-09 anymore (children who were born in that time frame are now in primary school, just to make me feel real old) and I can imagine some people are not particularly pleased with the whole "I'm retiring, oh wait, nah" thing from this winter.

Post by **mario** » 29 Jun 2017, 20:41

Klon wrote:
Wallio wrote:
mario wrote:I think that, if Vettel had decided to ram Alonso instead, there probably would have been a similarly large outcry - the recent survey by the Motorsport network indicated that Alonso is the second most popular driver on the grid and not that far behind Hamilton in terms of total support.

Well damn. You learn something new everyday. I would have guessed Kimi or Massa myself.

Problem with Kimi is that he has been underperforming to his level of talent for a while now. Whilst sports fan can accept mediocrity, if said mediocrity works hard enough and/or is charming (see: Tebow, Tim), they are not particularly fond of people who perform below expectations. Therefore, the fact that Räikkönen has not won a race in four years must surely have hurt his standing with the casual audience.
Massa on the other hand simply doesn't have the sympathy bonus from 2008-09 anymore (children who were born in that time frame are now in primary school, just to make me feel real old) and I can imagine some people are not particularly pleased with the whole "I'm retiring, oh wait, nah" thing from this winter.

In the case of Kimi, he doesn't seem to have actually become any less popular than he was a few years ago, when he was the most popular driver on the grid - it's mainly just that he's remained fairly static in terms of support, whereas Alonso and Hamlton have become more popular. He's still one of the more popular drivers though, coming in third in the rankings - perhaps in part because he had the strongest support of any driver from his home nation (it worked out at about 85% of Finnish fans put Kimi as their favourite).

In the case of Alonso, I suspect that it may in part be because there is a strong sympathy vote from people admiring the effort that he is putting in at McLaren to drag that car up the grid. If I recall well, there was a similar reaction in 2012 as well - with Alonso seen to be putting in a remarkable performance to come so close to taking the title in an uncompetitive car, that drew more fans to him.

It may also be that, given Alonso is the more competitive McLaren driver at the moment, there are a number of McLaren fans who are perhaps putting their hopes for their team in Alonso's hands to deliver something for them in what is proving to be a pretty wretched season.

Jan Magnussen · Post by **Rob Dylan** » 29 Jun 2017, 21:04

It was a point that Ecclestone made last year: the marketers don't really care about Hamilton's detractors, because his massive social media presence and ego the size of a planet has made him the most popular recognisable figure in Formula 1 these days (unfortunately...). When it came to the champions, he was saying that marketers would much prefer Hamilton winning to Vettel or Rosberg, as the latter two have decided to keep their personal lives private and out of the media spotlight. Before the 2016 season was even over, Hamilton had PR events and sponsorship/ambassador things booked until Christmas, whereas Vettel and Rosberg were going home to be with their families and hide away over the winter. As a result, Hamilton's openness to the media over the course of his career has garnered him a lot of support, especially from the casual press and an already jingoistic British press, and Vettel is realising that in practice - I'm not arguing who was specifically guilty in the case of the event at Baku, but in general - Hamilton's supporters go out to rally in his defence, and will aggressively attack his detractors.

It's the reason I'm not surprised Nico retired when he did.

Barbazza · Post by **Barbazza** » 30 Jun 2017, 16:22

Well....what a race to miss, and I almost managed to avoid what had happened, though the Google apps on my tablet 'helpfully' put stories up about it even while I wasn't actively seeking out news stories.

Reluctantly, hand on heart, I can't say that I really enjoyed it, rejectful though it was. I know I've been accused before of putting the rose-tinted spectacles on before but...in the past when random things have happened there has been some skill to win the day (I always think about Keke at Dallas) and a victory despite the circuit problems, not because of them. It just seems to me that the circuit is not suited to F1 if debris can't be removed easily without causing safety cars all the time, then restarts cause more problems etc. etc.

As for the Hamilton / Vettel incident, Lewis has previous in acting like a ****ing idiot behind the SC and he was definitely playing games. However, clearly Seb shouldn't have reacted as he did. Nice to hear some even-handed commentary from DC on it - oh no, my mistake, he was being a Lewis loving twat as usual. That made me want to throw things at the screen.

All that said, Stroll was exceptional and deserved 2nd. On a non-ridiculous circuit he would have got it. Pleased for Ricciardo too, if only because the Max worshippers on both Sky Sports and C4 must have HATED that.

CoopsII · Post by **CoopsII** » 30 Jun 2017, 17:31

Barbazza wrote:I know I've been accused before of putting the rose-tinted spectacles on before but....

You say that like it's a bad thing

If the modern world wasn't so bloody awful us two wouldn't need our rose-tinted specs! Insert Grandpa Simpson meme here ---->