2022 Discussion Thread

[mario]

Wrist slapped:

"Red Bull: F1 team receive $7m fine & 10% aero research reduction"

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/63430407

The caveat being that what the FIA has done is to take Red Bull's 2023 allocation of 70% of the baseline figure of aero research hours and then reduced that by 10%, rather than applying it as a fixed reduction. That has effectively reduced Red Bull's allowance from 70% to 63% of the baseline allowance for aero research in 2023.

Naturally, Horner is taking it with about the usual level of gracelessness that can be expected from him... https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/63430407

[Har1MAS1415]

Wrist slapped:

"Red Bull: F1 team receive $7m fine & 10% aero research reduction"

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/63430407

The caveat being that what the FIA has done is to take Red Bull's 2023 allocation of 70% of the baseline figure of aero research hours and then reduced that by 10%, rather than applying it as a fixed reduction. That has effectively reduced Red Bull's allowance from 70% to 63% of the baseline allowance for aero research in 2023.

Naturally, Horner is taking it with about the usual level of gracelessness that can be expected from him... https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/63430407

I doubt his pram has any toys left for him to throw out.

[James1978]

Horner (and indeed Marko) are two of the most dislikeable people in the whole sport. I don't feel the relatively small punishment is a big deterrent for the other teams not to do the same next year!

[Alextrax52]

Horner (and indeed Marko) are two of the most dislikeable people in the whole sport. I don't feel the relatively small punishment is a big deterrent for the other teams not to do the same next year!

I don’t think Horner and Marko have ever cared about being disliked. If anything the last 2 years in particular have shown that they thrive off being the bad guys in F1. Horner would literally go to war if he had to stick up for and defend his team which I kind of admire (Though I’ll never forgive Marko for being the only person in the known universe who thought Mark Webber was at fault for Turkey 2010)

Plus they antagonize the CultLH sheeple and send them into meltdown every week so I admire them for that alone

[mario]

Horner (and indeed Marko) are two of the most dislikeable people in the whole sport. I don't feel the relatively small punishment is a big deterrent for the other teams not to do the same next year!

I don’t think Horner and Marko have ever cared about being disliked. If anything the last 2 years in particular have shown that they thrive off being the bad guys in F1. Horner would literally go to war if he had to stick up for and defend his team which I kind of admire (Though I’ll never forgive Marko for being the only person in the known universe who thought Mark Webber was at fault for Turkey 2010)

Plus they antagonize the CultLH sheeple and send them into meltdown every week so I admire them for that alone

Whilst you jab at "the CultLH sheeple", I would say that there are parts of Max's fan base that has a rather darker side to it as a consequence of Mateschitz's links to political extremists, and consider that to be a more worrying issue.

Mateschitz was part of the far right movement in Austria, being a supporter of the Freedom Party and the Identitarian movement that called for the preservation of the"ethnic purity" of Austria, whilst one of Mateschitz's magazines, Der Pragmaticus, has been running pro-Putin propaganda this year calling him a "great peacemaker".

Similarly, Mateschitz saw Breitbart news as an inspiration for how he wanted his media channels to be run, and Servus TV gave a platform to a number of far right extremists, including at least one who was banned from Germany for former anti-Semitic activities and links to white supremacist movements (such as Sellner, for example, whom the Christchurch white supremacist terrorist attacker cited as an inspiration for him).

Supporters of the football club that Mateschitz owned, Red Bull Leipzig, found Mateschitz rather repugnant - some pretty much openly called Mateschitz a racist, and it seems that their response when asked what they thought of Mateschitz's legacy was, on their social media channels, to pin a message that urged their supporters to never give ground in the fight against the spread of extreme right wing ideology.

There does seem to be some element of that bleeding over into a certain sector of Max's fan base, which seemed to particularly glory in him beating Hamilton given Hamilton's anti-racism push and which seems to have interpreted a number of comments by Horner and Marko as implying support for their position.

[Alextrax52]

Horner (and indeed Marko) are two of the most dislikeable people in the whole sport. I don't feel the relatively small punishment is a big deterrent for the other teams not to do the same next year!

I don’t think Horner and Marko have ever cared about being disliked. If anything the last 2 years in particular have shown that they thrive off being the bad guys in F1. Horner would literally go to war if he had to stick up for and defend his team which I kind of admire (Though I’ll never forgive Marko for being the only person in the known universe who thought Mark Webber was at fault for Turkey 2010)

Plus they antagonize the CultLH sheeple and send them into meltdown every week so I admire them for that alone

Whilst you jab at "the CultLH sheeple", I would say that there are parts of Max's fan base that has a rather darker side to it as a consequence of Mateschitz's links to political extremists, and consider that to be a more worrying issue.

Mateschitz was part of the far right movement in Austria, being a supporter of the Freedom Party and the Identitarian movement that called for the preservation of the"ethnic purity" of Austria, whilst one of Mateschitz's magazines, Der Pragmaticus, has been running pro-Putin propaganda this year calling him a "great peacemaker".

Similarly, Mateschitz saw Breitbart news as an inspiration for how he wanted his media channels to be run, and Servus TV gave a platform to a number of far right extremists, including at least one who was banned from Germany for former anti-Semitic activities and links to white supremacist movements (such as Sellner, for example, whom the Christchurch white supremacist terrorist attacker cited as an inspiration for him).

Supporters of the football club that Mateschitz owned, Red Bull Leipzig, found Mateschitz rather repugnant - some pretty much openly called Mateschitz a racist, and it seems that their response when asked what they thought of Mateschitz's legacy was, on their social media channels, to pin a message that urged their supporters to never give ground in the fight against the spread of extreme right wing ideology.

There does seem to be some element of that bleeding over into a certain sector of Max's fan base, which seemed to particularly glory in him beating Hamilton given Hamilton's anti-racism push and which seems to have interpreted a number of comments by Horner and Marko as implying support for their position.

Oh I don’t deny that for a second Some Max fans are just as bad and Cult like as the Hamilton ones and sadly we’ve seen that more than once at times this year. I’ll just make it clear that my opinion on the fanbases is not aimed at the drivers themselves. I like Max because I think he just focuses on what I and all of us here watch F1 for: The racing. I respect Lewis (and Vettel) for trying to have a say and do things to make the world better even if I do think some of it is a little hypocritical (e.g don’t develop a moral consciousness about racing in Jeddah on the weekend of the race yet still compete there)

While the Max fanbase are not blameless like I’ve said, the Lewis fanbase have taken it to another level. Twitter now is just a string of increasingly cringeworthy hashtags slandering Max at every opportunity, they’ve constantly threatened to stop watching F1 all together since Abu Dhabi yet their all still here. It’s been really bad since the summer break and I think it’s because they blindly believed Toto and Russell into thinking the floor TD was going to magically make Mercedes the team to beat again and not only has it not happened but Red Bull have become that team. Throw in the Dutch conspiracies, Monza SC ending, The cost cap and the way Max won the title in Japan and it’s a melting pot now

FWIW I’ve had a loathing of the LH fanbase (and the British media too) since he first stepped into a hybrid Mercedes. Vettel’s 4 year dominance of the sport was bad, Verstappen dominating now is bad but Lewis does it for 7 years and it’s generational. They’ve all had the best car for it (Max has even admitted how important a role it plays) so why does it only apply to Seb and Max and not Lewis that the dominance is bad? To me it’s either all or none.

[Wallio]

I think this whole thing has shown just how stupid the cost cap exercise is. Red Bull got dinged for a tax credit, and Aston Martin for OFFICE DESKS AND CHAIRS?!? Pinnacle of motorsport indeed.

Anyhoo, hopefully, half (hell even a third) of everyone on Twitter/Reddit/etc saying they are leaving the sport forever actually do. It will lower prices a bit. Things are way too crowded anyway.

[Rob Dylan]

Mario, I read through your posts all the time because you present them in a clear and informed manner almost all the time and I think you're a great asset to our community in what you give us. Your last post disappoints me to say the least. How you got from "Dietrich Mateschitz's political leanings" to "parts of Max's fan base" being actively racist because Hamilton pushed anti-racist campaigning in recent years is just slanderous and reeks of tunnel vision and rabbit-hole discussions on social media.

As a watcher of this sport for two decades, I've had little to no knowledge of Dietrich Mateschitz's off-track life outside of his Red Bull workings. It hasn't interested me or been relevant to the sport I watch. If casual fans have any idea who this man was before his obituary put his name in the headlines, I can imagine they have had a cursory knowledge at best. Get over yourself, please.

[Nessafox]

Just want to add this: nobody is forcing someone else here to like/agree with a certain driver or team. But for the rest rob said it best.

[Alextrax52]

That last bit from Rob says it best. 99% of people who watch F1 probably have no clue who Mateschitz is or knew what he looked like which to be fair I can understand because he never wanted the limelight and Horner has said that several times when he talks about his impact. Still it didn’t stop “TeamLH” from pushing the narrative that he was a bad guy.

Anyway things look like they may be getting even more toxic as Jos Verstappen has decided he’s had enough of Ted Kravitz fueling the “Lewis was robbed” narrative and has told his son to stop giving interviews to SkyF1 (even the Italian version because it’s right next to the English one). Now I can’t stand “Jos the Boss” because his past is very well documented but I think he’s got it right here. If I were Max I’d have boycotted them after seeing that “Merry Christmas” advert showing his crash at Silverstone. Kravitz is entitled to his opinion of course but I think he’s forgotten that SKY are worldwide broadcasters not just to English viewers so a bit of professionalism is needed and some people who watched his USA notebook may feel that it’s sorely lacking right now

[Row Man Gross-Gene]

Look, I understand wanting to keep politics away from sport and often feel that way myself. That said, I'm glad to know more about the politics of Mateschitz. Fair enough if you thought the causal links (between Mateschitz's media activities and those of the online fanbases) were too tenuous to be mentioned, I thought their tenuousness was implied by the wording, but apparently not sufficiently so.

Perhaps Mario's biggest mistake was mentioning any of the online fanbases at all. I have never not been disappointed any time they've been brought to my attention.

[Wallio]

That last bit from Rob says it best. 99% of people who watch F1 probably have no clue who Mateschitz is or knew what he looked like which to be fair I can understand because he never wanted the limelight and Horner has said that several times when he talks about his impact. Still it didn’t stop “TeamLH” from pushing the narrative that he was a bad guy.

Anyway things look like they may be getting even more toxic as Jos Verstappen has decided he’s had enough of Ted Kravitz fueling the “Lewis was robbed” narrative and has told his son to stop giving interviews to SkyF1 (even the Italian version because it’s right next to the English one). Now I can’t stand “Jos the Boss” because his past is very well documented but I think he’s got it right here. If I were Max I’d have boycotted them after seeing that “Merry Christmas” advert showing his crash at Silverstone. Kravitz is entitled to his opinion of course but I think he’s forgotten that SKY are worldwide broadcasters not just to English viewers so a bit of professionalism is needed and some people who watched his USA notebook may feel that it’s sorely lacking right now

I agree with Jos here (and Horner as well, it seems the team will be staying away for a while too). Sky is just utterly abysmal. I have no idea how they are allowed to keep the feed. Oh, wait, $$$. Between Crofty shouting, Brundle constantly telling you how despite never winning a race he really should have been a 14-time WDC, Karun taking any twitter comments to heart, etc they are like a bad morning DJ team, not commentators for the biggest sport on the planet. They also get into childish fights with other presenters. Their bias has always been well known, they are just being a bit more open to it, see not just Ted spouting off, but Croft's "He's simply a better driver!" quip about Hamilton during the race. My kudos to Damon Hill, who has always been the most openly biased member of the crew, but he freely admits it, which is something at least.

\I worry that the new ESPN deal may limit my access to F1TV going forward. I have yet to pull the trigger on a decent VPN, but being forced to listen to Sky would get me to make the leap.

[Row Man Gross-Gene]

\I worry that the new ESPN deal may limit my access to F1TV going forward. I have yet to pull the trigger on a decent VPN, but being forced to listen to Sky would get me to make the leap.

This might be a legitimate worry. I've loved being able to use F1TV thus far, but I just let my subscription lapse. Mostly because of the extra cost, but I've been watching most of the races on ESPN since I've gotten cable. I have a nice big TV set and I had no easy way to watch the races on it with F1TV. There is no smart TV app for F1TV and so my only option was to mirror my phone or ipad on the TV screen which was buggy to say the least. So I went with cable because I got a deal that made it a little cheaper. If F1 had a smart TV app, it would change the calculus, but I wonder if they'll see it as worth developing if they have half-decent TV/cable coverage in their biggest markets.

[Wallio]

I have a nice big TV set and I had no easy way to watch the races on it with F1TV.

While it's very "going around your elbow to gt to your wrist". if you have a laptop, Amazon sells a $6 dollar adaptor to go USB-C to HDMI. It's how I watch on my 60inch.

[Row Man Gross-Gene]

Shaaaysus, Magnussen on pole! Mixed conditions and all notwithstanding, very nice job.

[WeirdKerr]

scenes..... etc

[Alextrax52]

Well if Mick Schumacher’s prospects for 2023 were slim before today they’ve just had a mud hole stomped into them after that Qualifying session. Potentially being replaced by the last guy who scored a shock pole position at Interlagos as well.

[Paul Hayes]

It would take a heart of stone not to be pleased for Haas there!

[dr-baker]

And to think that Nikita Marzipan was originally supposed to be in that car!

And, as per the trackside advertising, MSC does indeed seem to be cruising.

[Har1MAS1415]

And to think that Nikita Marzipan was originally supposed to be in that car!

And, as per the trackside advertising, MSC does indeed seem to be cruising.

Haas' 2nd Driver for 2023 has been decided but won't reveal who it is until next week.

[dr-baker]

And to think that Nikita Marzipan was originally supposed to be in that car!

And, as per the trackside advertising, MSC does indeed seem to be cruising.

Haas' 2nd Driver for 2023 has been decided but won't reveal who it is until next week.

Is it likely to be the Incredible Hulkenberg?

[Har1MAS1415]

And to think that Nikita Marzipan was originally supposed to be in that car!

And, as per the trackside advertising, MSC does indeed seem to be cruising.

Haas' 2nd Driver for 2023 has been decided but won't reveal who it is until next week.

Is it likely to be the Incredible Hulkenberg?

Who knows? Probably is but they say it's a closely guarded secret.

[Paul Hayes]

Congratulations George!

Great race, too, although probably not as much jeopardy for the lead as would be needed to make it a classic.

[Har1MAS1415]

Congratulations George!

Great race, too, although probably not as much jeopardy for the lead as would be needed to make it a classic.

Congratulations Mercedes for finally winning a race in 2022!

[takagi_for_the_win]

Haas' 2nd Driver for 2023 has been decided but won't reveal who it is until next week.

Is it likely to be the Incredible Hulkenberg?

I dunno, but Hulkenberg seems such an underwhelming choice. He's had his day in F1, was a solid but unspectacular driver, but his time has passed; it would be nice to see more of the younger generation of drivers make their way into the sport.

[Row Man Gross-Gene]

I dunno, but Hulkenberg seems such an underwhelming choice. He's had his day in F1, was a solid but unspectacular driver, but his time has passed; it would be nice to see more of the younger generation of drivers make their way into the sport.

Indeed. He didn't really deserve to be dropped, but now he's been out for a couple of years, I'd rather it stay that way and some youngsters get a shot. Or at least some more interesting choices.

[Har1MAS1415]

I dunno, but Hulkenberg seems such an underwhelming choice. He's had his day in F1, was a solid but unspectacular driver, but his time has passed; it would be nice to see more of the younger generation of drivers make their way into the sport.

Indeed. He didn't really deserve to be dropped, but now he's been out for a couple of years, I'd rather it stay that way and some youngsters get a shot. Or at least some more interesting choices.

The late Andrea de Cesaris may no longer be the only driver to rack up over 200 starts without a win this time next year.

[James1978]

The only argument I get for The Hulk is he'll trash the car less than Schumi Jnr.

However it would leave only McLaren and Alpha Tauri as the only F1.5 teams he HASN'T drive for.

[dr-baker]

I remember when he was dominant in A1GP for, obviously, Team Germany. Such potential in junior series. But it seems now, to rehash an old meme on this forum, We Are Slightly Bored by Nico Hulkenberg.

[Row Man Gross-Gene]

I remember when he was dominant in A1GP for, obviously, Team Germany. Such potential in junior series. But it seems now, to rehash an old meme on this forum, We Are Slightly Bored by Nico Hulkenberg.

Exactly

[Har1MAS1415]

I remember when he was dominant in A1GP for, obviously, Team Germany. Such potential in junior series. But it seems now, to rehash an old meme on this forum, We Are Slightly Bored by Nico Hulkenberg.

Not to mention winning GP2 at his first attempt in 2009.

[dr-baker]

I remember when he was dominant in A1GP for, obviously, Team Germany. Such potential in junior series. But it seems now, to rehash an old meme on this forum, We Are Slightly Bored by Nico Hulkenberg.

Not to mention winning GP2 at his first attempt in 2009.

Precisely. At the time, he seemed like The Next Big Deal, the new Schumi.

[Har1MAS1415]

I remember when he was dominant in A1GP for, obviously, Team Germany. Such potential in junior series. But it seems now, to rehash an old meme on this forum, We Are Slightly Bored by Nico Hulkenberg.

Not to mention winning GP2 at his first attempt in 2009.

Precisely. At the time, he seemed like The Next Big Deal, the new Schumi.

Boy do we stand corrected now.

[James1978]

I always think Heidfeld, Hulkenberg, Sutil and Glock all sort of roll into one big German good but not great - metronomic points-scorers but never winners. Indeed looking back Rosberg was probably also in danger of dropping to that category in his earlier Williams and early Mercedes (pre-Hamilton) days.

[James1978]

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/hulke ... /10400886/

It's confirmed!

So Schumacher to be Mercedes third driver seems to make sense now (though I have doubts if he's good enough to replace Hamilton when he retires, working for Toto seems to have good outcomes for people), and (even though I slated him for it a few weeks ago) Danny Ric back to Red Bull seems to fit more now than it did then - mainly due to the seemingly bad blood there now is between Max and Checo. He has far more chance of the race seat now than he would have a few weeks ago if things do go downhill with Checo and let's face it, even though they were at different stages of their careers, nobody has been as close to Max as Danny was in the years they were together.

[CoopsII]

I just posted about this in the forgettable driver thread so all I'll add is if Micks surname wasn't Schumacher by this time next year he'd be as well remembered as Tonio Liuzzi or Ralph Firman.

[Wallio]

This is Nick Heidfeld levels of dull. I don't think I could physically care, and I'm a Haas fan.

[IceG]

Abu Dhabi F1 GP:

Just realised that if Leclerc and Perez do not score points, and Russell wins with the fastest lap he gets 2nd in the WDC!

Also, every position from 2 to 9 in the WCC could change as a result of this race: (Ferrari vs Mercedes, Alpine vs. McLaren, Alfa Romeo vs. Aston Martin and Haas vs. Alpha Tauri).

Close intra-team battles include Russell vs Hamilton (juicy), Alonso vs. Ocon (bloody) and Albon vs. Latifi (handbaggy).

So although this is two or three races past what I can really consume in a season, there are some things worth for which it is worth watching.

[Fetzie]

Abu Dhabi F1 GP:

Just realised that if Leclerc and Perez do not score points, and Russell wins with the fastest lap he gets 2nd in the WDC!

And that would also likely get Mercedes 2nd in the WCC, depending on how Hamilton and Sainz finish.

Soo...

WCC 2nd
WDC 2nd
WDC 5th

Not a bad result for their most disastrous season in a long time.

[Spectoremg]

I dunno, but Hulkenberg seems such an underwhelming choice. He's had his day in F1, was a solid but unspectacular driver, but his time has passed; it would be nice to see more of the younger generation of drivers make their way into the sport.

Indeed. He didn't really deserve to be dropped, but now he's been out for a couple of years, I'd rather it stay that way and some youngsters get a shot. Or at least some more interesting choices.

The late Andrea de Cesaris may no longer be the only driver to rack up over 200 starts without a win this time next year.