2024 discussion thread

[Row Man Gross-Gene]

sanctions in place make Nikita effectively unemployable in practice.

Not his driving ability?

His ability - or lack thereof - behind the wheel didn't stop him getting a seat the first time around as long as the money kept flowing.

Fair enough, though I'm reminded of the old Mark Twain quote "Better to be quiet and thought to be an idiot than to open your mouth and remove all doubt." By which I mean prior to his time in F1 he still had some potential even if most of us thought he would be bad, now we know he's bad.

[sswishbone]

Early Reject of the race for Williams they don't have a spare chassis and due to what happened in FP1 a driver may not partake this weekend

[Alextrax52]

Well if we didn’t know before that Alex Albon was Williams’s chosen son then the news that he will take over Sargeant’s car for the rest of the weekend despite him crashing confirms it. What a blow that’s going to be to Logan’s confidence

[Rob Dylan]

Yeah, especially as it's so early in the season. Poor Sargeant! Albon crashing again after this would be instant ROTR material, especially if it triggered an event that allowed every single one of Williams' competitors to bag mega points

[Wallio]

Don't even bother posting a ROTR thread this week. It's Williams. How in the hell do you not have a spare chassis? That is the type of laughable prep that used to feature on the team profiles of the old site. We're 5 weeks (counting testing) into the bloody season! And as of last season, Williams didn't even have the lowest budget of the teams. Embarrassing stuff.

[Row Man Gross-Gene]

Don't even bother posting a ROTR thread this week. It's Williams. How in the hell do you not have a spare chassis? That is the type of laughable prep that used to feature on the team profiles of the old site. We're 5 weeks (counting testing) into the bloody season! And as of last season, Williams didn't even have the lowest budget of the teams. Embarrassing stuff.

Yeah, this is pretty bad, it's going to be tough for anyone to overtake Williams for ROTR this weekend.

[Wallio]

Albon crashing again after this would be instant ROTY material

FTFY

[mario]

Don't even bother posting a ROTR thread this week. It's Williams. How in the hell do you not have a spare chassis? That is the type of laughable prep that used to feature on the team profiles of the old site. We're 5 weeks (counting testing) into the bloody season! And as of last season, Williams didn't even have the lowest budget of the teams. Embarrassing stuff.

There was an interesting interview just a few days ago on The Race site site that indicates part of the problem seems to have been a decision by Vowles to push for major internal reforms within Williams, particularly with respect to their development programmes and production cycles.

Williams were, by the sounds of things, long overdue for an overhaul in that department, but it sounds like you had the problem of a new parts management system being introduced at the same time as Vowles also insisted on overhauling the design of a larger number of parts, resulting in production delays. https://www.the-race.com/formula-1/shoc ... evolution/

On a different note, the Bahrain sovereign wealth fund, Mumtalakat, has taken full ownership of the McLaren Group, the parent company of both the automotive division and the Formula 1 team. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-68639320

[IceG]

Qualifying:

Sainz was very good - faster than Leclerc - and the Ferraris look competitive vs. the Red Bulls. Sainz' ability to turn in especially was remarkable and his recovery from illness very impressive, showing fitness and motivation for wherever he is heading in 2025. I think Leclerc overdrove his last lap but he seemed to be just behind Sainz all through qualy.

Hamilton looked disinterested and unmotivated. And Alonso is making mistakes. Those two were once so good at getting an average car into excellent positions yet now both seem to have lost their exceptionalism.

Haas, Alpine and Sauber are now firmly into Formula 1.5 territory. Shame that Ricciardo ran off during his fast lap.

[Wallio]

There was an interesting interview just a few days ago on The Race site site that indicates part of the problem seems to have been a decision by Vowles to push for major internal reforms within Williams, particularly with respect to their development programmes and production cycles.

Williams were, by the sounds of things, long overdue for an overhaul in that department, but it sounds like you had the problem of a new parts management system being introduced at the same time as Vowles also insisted on overhauling the design of a larger number of parts, resulting in production delays. https://www.the-race.com/formula-1/shoc ... evolution/

I did see that. However it gets worse. Vowles did another interview between FP3/Q1 and said that because of this, Williams won't have the third chassis ready for Japan, but hopefully, for China. So we could be doing this all over agian in two weeks. He also said that while he is very confident Williams will be able to run 2 cars in Japan, he can't say it's a 100% certainty! He also said that this has eaten up a good chunk of their crash budget in the cost cap and they may run into money concerns later on.

Things cannot be THIS bad can they? Excel or no Excel, this is stuff you hear from part time Indycar teams, not the 5th winningest GP team of all time!

[sswishbone]

Have to say the decision not to call a red flag is very questionable given this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mDltOg-exCM

[dr-baker]

Have to say the decision not to call a red flag is very questionable given this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mDltOg-exCM

Some YouTube comments are just so… tribal? Fanboy-esque?

And then others are like:
- I remember this like this was yesterday.
- remember the days when Ferrari and McLaren dominated?
- etc…

But in that situation, I would probably be calling for the red flag too for self-preservation reasons.
https://youtu.be/Sgwa-Wc03RI?si=fUrCvNVmnrRH0Zer

[mario]

Have to say the decision not to call a red flag is very questionable given this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mDltOg-exCM

Some YouTube comments are just so… tribal? Fanboy-esque?

And then others are like:
- I remember this like this was yesterday.
- remember the days when Ferrari and McLaren dominated?
- etc…

But in that situation, I would probably be calling for the red flag too for self-preservation reasons.
https://youtu.be/Sgwa-Wc03RI?si=fUrCvNVmnrRH0Zer

Not just Youtube - there's plenty of tribalism around on other sites (just look at the people ranting on Racefans, for example, about Alonso being penalised and throwing around the usual melodrama about how it's "the end of hard racing" or similar statements).

[dr-baker]

Have to say the decision not to call a red flag is very questionable given this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mDltOg-exCM

Some YouTube comments are just so… tribal? Fanboy-esque?

And then others are like:
- I remember this like this was yesterday.
- remember the days when Ferrari and McLaren dominated?
- etc…

But in that situation, I would probably be calling for the red flag too for self-preservation reasons.
https://youtu.be/Sgwa-Wc03RI?si=fUrCvNVmnrRH0Zer

Not just Youtube - there's plenty of tribalism around on other sites (just look at the people ranting on Racefans, for example, about Alonso being penalised and throwing around the usual melodrama about how it's "the end of hard racing" or similar statements).

It's been the case on the Internet generally for many years now. This forum is one of the few places to be free of it.

[CoopsII]

I'm pretty sure if Russell had simply spun off into the gravel Alonso wouldn't have received such a hefty punishment, if at all. To me, it looks like Alonso got fingered because of where the Mercedes ended up, as if that was down to anything other than bad luck.

[Wallio]

Have to say the decision not to call a red flag is very questionable given this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mDltOg-exCM

I mean, the VSC was called more or less instantly, and the only driver realtively close was Stroll, was A.) Close enough a red flag would have made little difference, and B.) had been warned by his engineer. Everyone else was slowed by the time they arrived. Now this doesn't mean someone couldn't pull at Gasly at Suzuka and just ignore the flags, but they could do that under red too.

[Row Man Gross-Gene]

Have to say the decision not to call a red flag is very questionable given this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mDltOg-exCM

I mean, the VSC was called more or less instantly, and the only driver realtively close was Stroll, was A.) Close enough a red flag would have made little difference, and B.) had been warned by his engineer. Everyone else was slowed by the time they arrived. Now this doesn't mean someone couldn't pull at Gasly at Suzuka and just ignore the flags, but they could do that under red too.

I agree Wallio. On the final lap of the race, a VSC is practically a red flag. Now if George hadn't said that he was "OK" so quickly, a red flag would have been better.

[dr-baker]

Have to say the decision not to call a red flag is very questionable given this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mDltOg-exCM

I mean, the VSC was called more or less instantly, and the only driver realtively close was Stroll, was A.) Close enough a red flag would have made little difference, and B.) had been warned by his engineer. Everyone else was slowed by the time they arrived. Now this doesn't mean someone couldn't pull at Gasly at Suzuka and just ignore the flags, but they could do that under red too.

From Stroll's perspective: https://youtu.be/PxlvicS-4M0?si=icN_XcwcWiAp6_GT

[mario]

Some YouTube comments are just so… tribal? Fanboy-esque?

And then others are like:
- I remember this like this was yesterday.
- remember the days when Ferrari and McLaren dominated?
- etc…

But in that situation, I would probably be calling for the red flag too for self-preservation reasons.
https://youtu.be/Sgwa-Wc03RI?si=fUrCvNVmnrRH0Zer

Not just Youtube - there's plenty of tribalism around on other sites (just look at the people ranting on Racefans, for example, about Alonso being penalised and throwing around the usual melodrama about how it's "the end of hard racing" or similar statements).

It's been the case on the Internet generally for many years now. This forum is one of the few places to be free of it.

True - I know of a few sites that have been rather ruined by it (for example, the F1Technical site has really gone down the gutter, with a number of the more knowledgeable posters there leaving due to harassment or finding that site basically unusable now). I guess that, being more focussed on the retro aspect, it tends to not attract the sort of people who do tend towards that more toxic end of the spectrum.

Have to say the decision not to call a red flag is very questionable given this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mDltOg-exCM

I mean, the VSC was called more or less instantly, and the only driver realtively close was Stroll, was A.) Close enough a red flag would have made little difference, and B.) had been warned by his engineer. Everyone else was slowed by the time they arrived. Now this doesn't mean someone couldn't pull at Gasly at Suzuka and just ignore the flags, but they could do that under red too.

I agree Wallio. On the final lap of the race, a VSC is practically a red flag. Now if George hadn't said that he was "OK" so quickly, a red flag would have been better.

The Race have pointed to another factor that might explain why they felt a VSC was sufficient to manage the situation, which was that they've recently adjusted the way that double waived yellows and the VSC are implemented to impose stricter speed limits on drivers. Those changes would force drivers to approach a crash scene at a much lower speed than they might have been allowed to travel at in the past, reducing some of the risk associated with that decision. https://www.the-race.com/formula-1/why- ... crash-fia/

Added to that, at a minimum, at least three drivers - Stroll, Tsunoda and Hulkenberg - would probably have had to drive around Russell's car to return to the pits if a red flag was used, given they were in close proximity to Russell when he crashed. On balance, I'd say you could have constructed a good argument for either case, and using the VSC does seem to have been a reasonable solution in this situation (not something you feel you can always say about race control at times).

[Wallio]

In more Williams news, it appears that Logan may end up with the repaired tub next race, while Albon keeps Sargent's old one. And while yes the logic makes some sense (the engine and gearbox are tied to drivers not tubs, and swapping them is very tedious) its another bad deal for poor Logan.

[Har1MAS1415]

In more Williams news, it appears that Logan may end up with the repaired tub next race, while Albon keeps Sargent's old one. And while yes the logic makes some sense (the engine and gearbox are tied to drivers not tubs, and swapping them is very tedious) its another bad deal for poor Logan.

...and F1 is supposed to be trying harder than ever to appeal to the Americans

[mario]

In more Williams news, it appears that Logan may end up with the repaired tub next race, while Albon keeps Sargent's old one. And while yes the logic makes some sense (the engine and gearbox are tied to drivers not tubs, and swapping them is very tedious) its another bad deal for poor Logan.

...and F1 is supposed to be trying harder than ever to appeal to the Americans

Is Sargeant that popular with the average viewer in the USA though? I had the impression that he wasn't a particularly high profile driver in the USA, given that he's spent most of his time racing and living in Europe and the UAE, and therefore didn't really stand out that much in practice.

As for repairing and re-using a crashed chassis - it seems to be unfortunate for Logan on the surface, although it isn't unheard of for even major teams to have drivers re-use a chassis that was crashed by a team mate. Back in 2010, one of Vettel's chassis had to be repaired during the season after a crash earlier in the season, and that chassis was kept as a spare. When Webber had his crash during the European GP, Red Bull then pulled Vettel's repaired chassis out of storage and gave that to Webber.

[Row Man Gross-Gene]

Is Sargeant that popular with the average viewer in the USA though?

No, I don't think so. The importance of an American driver or even team is way lower than just having races here, in my opinion. I'll start getting excited about an American driver when they land at one of the top 5 teams (preferably the big 3) and start having an impact on the podium (and not being overtly objectionable). Now if an American had a lot of hype and drove like Leclerc did at Sauber, I'd also probably get a little excited.

[Wallio]

Is Sargeant that popular with the average viewer in the USA though?

Overall? No. But I understand he is actually quite popular in Florida and Texas.

[Spectoremg]

Is anyone else bothered by the amount of deadbeats in F1 lately? Does my memory fade or was it always so?

[Row Man Gross-Gene]

Is anyone else bothered by the amount of deadbeats in F1 lately? Does my memory fade or was it always so?

I’m not sure what you mean here. Deadbeat has a number of meanings, could you be more specific?

[dr-baker]

Is anyone else bothered by the amount of deadbeats in F1 lately? Does my memory fade or was it always so?

I’m not sure what you mean here. Deadbeat has a number of meanings, could you be more specific?

I feel that, given the times in qualifying from 1st to 20th is consistently the smallest it has ever been over the past 10 years of F1 (since the disappearance of Manor), there are fewer deadbeats on the grid since forever.

[Paul Hayes]

I am quite surprised that Alonso signed up with Aston Martin when there might still have been a chance of a seat at Mercedes or Red Bull. I suppose he's gambling on their continued investment and development getting them the top team status they're aiming for, and decided this was the best bet for him.

The unfortunate thing is, none of his many other career bets have ever really come off...

[Har1MAS1415]

I am quite surprised that Alonso signed up with Aston Martin when there might still have been a chance of a seat at Mercedes or Red Bull. I suppose he's gambling on their continued investment and development getting them the top team status they're aiming for, and decided this was the best bet for him.

The unfortunate thing is, none of his many other career bets have ever really come off...

Sounds like typical Fernando.

[noiceinmydrink]

I am quite surprised that Alonso signed up with Aston Martin when there might still have been a chance of a seat at Mercedes or Red Bull. I suppose he's gambling on their continued investment and development getting them the top team status they're aiming for, and decided this was the best bet for him.

The unfortunate thing is, none of his many other career bets have ever really come off...

Honestly I think Aston is probably his best bet at the moment unless something drastic happens with Verstappen's seat. Aston is on an upwards trajectory, Mercedes is floundering and Red Bull are keen to keep Checo as long as he keeps performing, which he is.

[mario]

I am quite surprised that Alonso signed up with Aston Martin when there might still have been a chance of a seat at Mercedes or Red Bull. I suppose he's gambling on their continued investment and development getting them the top team status they're aiming for, and decided this was the best bet for him.

The unfortunate thing is, none of his many other career bets have ever really come off...

Honestly I think Aston is probably his best bet at the moment unless something drastic happens with Verstappen's seat. Aston is on an upwards trajectory, Mercedes is floundering and Red Bull are keen to keep Checo as long as he keeps performing, which he is.

It's hard to see which other teams could offer Alonso the sort of position he has at Aston Martin and a similar level of competitiveness.

As you note, Mercedes has taken a dip in performance, whilst Marko has stated he does not want a competitive second driver that could upset relations with Verstappen. Any other team is likely to be a step backwards in terms of competitiveness - it also has to be said that, on a personal level, I get the impression that he's probably happier at Aston Martin than he's been at most other teams for quite some time.

[Paul Hayes]

Plus I suppose they do have the added attraction of being wedded to a team-mate who is clearly no match for him.

[mario]

Plus I suppose they do have the added attraction of being wedded to a team-mate who is clearly no match for him.

That may also be an attraction, as Alonso's reputation is being built on the perception that he is maximising the performance of the car.

To some extent, that perception relies on having a weaker team mate that means there is no real comparison within the team for his performance, allowing him to continue talking his performances up in an atmosphere where he can control the image he wants to put out. Just recently, he was calling his performance in the Japanese GP one of the greatest performance of his career - something he tends to do rather frequently.

[dr-baker]

If there is no other obvious IIDOTR this weekend, this panda will get my nomination:

And if there is a repeat of the grass fires during the race, that would be the kind of nomination for ROTR that Jenoch would have gone for.

[IceG]

The FIA stewards not being sure of what the word "stopped" means is quite the RoTR.

However I think that they reached the correct decision re Sainz and Aston's protest. Perhaps some-one will be updating rule 39.6 soon?

[dr-baker]

If it were the start of the month, I would have taken this as an April Fool story. Bit it seems like Ferrari will not be racing in its iconic red livery in Miami, but rather in blue as a one-off to hark back to the blue and white livery of the North American Racing Team.

[IceG]

So how will Horner and Wolff refer to "the red team" and "the team in red" now?

[dr-baker]

So how will Horner and Wolff refer to "the red team" and "the team in red" now?

The Manchester team,? The team formerly known as United and now known as City? (TTFKAUANKAC)

[dr-baker]

If it were the start of the month, I would have taken this as an April Fool story. Bit it seems like Ferrari will not be racing in its iconic red livery in Miami, but rather in blue as a one-off to hark back to the blue and white livery of the North American Racing Team.

Seems like Ferrari have sold out to HP for at least this one race at Miami...

[dr-baker]

If it were the start of the month, I would have taken this as an April Fool story. Bit it seems like Ferrari will not be racing in its iconic red livery in Miami, but rather in blue as a one-off to hark back to the blue and white livery of the North American Racing Team.

Seems like Ferrari have sold out to HP for at least this one race at Miami...