Ranking the top 100 professional racers since 2000
- Salamander
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Ranking the top 100 professional racers since 2000
blows dust off account
Huh. I guess this thing still works after all.
So yeah, I sorta skimmed over the ESPN top 100 21st century athletes list a while ago, and while it has a lot of issues (Connor McDavid 98th? Really? Really? The greatest ice hockey goalscorer of all time only gets to 54th!?), it got me thinking about what a top 100 21st century racers list would look like. I could probably half-ass one together myself, but I got like halfway through actually doing that and realised I really don't know a lot about certain areas of motorsport, and probably should look for alternative opinions. Also I probably overrate/underrate certain racers. Also also, I haven't watched a full race (not counting my classic 90s NASCAR binge, of course) since that Bahrain outer circuit race back in 2020 that Perez won, so my opinions are naturally going to be a little dated. That's where (hopefully) you all come in, since I can't think of a better community of racing fans who watch such a wide variety of racing series.
So, let's lay down some ground rules first:
1. Winning is everything. More wins is more better. If you can keep winning over a sustained period of time, that's exceptional. Being a title contender for years on end is legendary, and going beyond that to define an era of your sport? That's otherworldly.
2. Winning championships is important. But so are race wins. (I'M LOOKING AT YOU, NICKY HAYDEN)
3. Junior series stats aren't worth anything. The best racers find a way to win at the top level.
4. This isn't a "Potential Man*" conversation. Did you only just start winning, but everyone thinks you're gonna be a legend in the sport in short order? That's great, we can have that conversation then. But then is not now. Go win more races.
5. Quality of competition is essential - who are you racing? How many stars did you have to beat to win on a regular basis? Did you have a massive equipment advantage when you were winning? Or were you in fact so dominant they changed the rules to stop you winning so much?
6. Conversely, considering how hyper-specialised racers are these days, winning across multiple disciplines deserves the respect and acknowledge such a feat is due.
First things first, I think we need to determine the top drivers that should be considered from each discipline - a "shortlist" of racers- i.e., the kind that should never be left off a list like this (Michael Schumacher, Valentino Rossi, Lewis Hamilton, Sebastien Loeb, Jimmie Johnson, Tom Kristensen, etc.). Everyone else who's mentioned but doesn't make the cut goes onto the "long list", where we try to find something of a cut off for the top 100. Through that process, I think we'd naturally sort the racers, but we can run through the list one more time to make sure there's a general consensus that we've got it correct. After that, if there's enough people interested, we could even write it up into an article of some sort for the main site.
Finally, please try to leave your more outrageous opinions at the door - I want this to be as objective as we can manage. Robert Kubica, for my money, is certainly one of the top 100 racers of the 21st century. One Grand Prix win and dick-all else at the top level, however, is not the kind of record we should be seeing on this list. I'd also like to severely dock Kevin Harvick because of the shite he pulled at Talladega in 2015, but the guy was unquestionably the best or second best driver in NASCAR from 2015-2020. Stuff like that I don't really want to see - but if you want to wax lyrical about how JPM should be #1, I'll listen - after all, by my judgement, his record means he should be on the list.
So, that's the idea here. Hopefully that seems interesting to at least a few people here, with knowledge of all different motorsports, so that a realistic go at this can be made.
*No offense was intended to any Lando Norris fans by this meme (I don't even know if any will even see this post). I just don't really think a driver with his record should be considered in this conversation yet - and he was the most "Potential Man" racer in motorsports I could think of.
Huh. I guess this thing still works after all.
So yeah, I sorta skimmed over the ESPN top 100 21st century athletes list a while ago, and while it has a lot of issues (Connor McDavid 98th? Really? Really? The greatest ice hockey goalscorer of all time only gets to 54th!?), it got me thinking about what a top 100 21st century racers list would look like. I could probably half-ass one together myself, but I got like halfway through actually doing that and realised I really don't know a lot about certain areas of motorsport, and probably should look for alternative opinions. Also I probably overrate/underrate certain racers. Also also, I haven't watched a full race (not counting my classic 90s NASCAR binge, of course) since that Bahrain outer circuit race back in 2020 that Perez won, so my opinions are naturally going to be a little dated. That's where (hopefully) you all come in, since I can't think of a better community of racing fans who watch such a wide variety of racing series.
So, let's lay down some ground rules first:
1. Winning is everything. More wins is more better. If you can keep winning over a sustained period of time, that's exceptional. Being a title contender for years on end is legendary, and going beyond that to define an era of your sport? That's otherworldly.
2. Winning championships is important. But so are race wins. (I'M LOOKING AT YOU, NICKY HAYDEN)
3. Junior series stats aren't worth anything. The best racers find a way to win at the top level.
4. This isn't a "Potential Man*" conversation. Did you only just start winning, but everyone thinks you're gonna be a legend in the sport in short order? That's great, we can have that conversation then. But then is not now. Go win more races.
5. Quality of competition is essential - who are you racing? How many stars did you have to beat to win on a regular basis? Did you have a massive equipment advantage when you were winning? Or were you in fact so dominant they changed the rules to stop you winning so much?
6. Conversely, considering how hyper-specialised racers are these days, winning across multiple disciplines deserves the respect and acknowledge such a feat is due.
First things first, I think we need to determine the top drivers that should be considered from each discipline - a "shortlist" of racers- i.e., the kind that should never be left off a list like this (Michael Schumacher, Valentino Rossi, Lewis Hamilton, Sebastien Loeb, Jimmie Johnson, Tom Kristensen, etc.). Everyone else who's mentioned but doesn't make the cut goes onto the "long list", where we try to find something of a cut off for the top 100. Through that process, I think we'd naturally sort the racers, but we can run through the list one more time to make sure there's a general consensus that we've got it correct. After that, if there's enough people interested, we could even write it up into an article of some sort for the main site.
Finally, please try to leave your more outrageous opinions at the door - I want this to be as objective as we can manage. Robert Kubica, for my money, is certainly one of the top 100 racers of the 21st century. One Grand Prix win and dick-all else at the top level, however, is not the kind of record we should be seeing on this list. I'd also like to severely dock Kevin Harvick because of the shite he pulled at Talladega in 2015, but the guy was unquestionably the best or second best driver in NASCAR from 2015-2020. Stuff like that I don't really want to see - but if you want to wax lyrical about how JPM should be #1, I'll listen - after all, by my judgement, his record means he should be on the list.
So, that's the idea here. Hopefully that seems interesting to at least a few people here, with knowledge of all different motorsports, so that a realistic go at this can be made.
*No offense was intended to any Lando Norris fans by this meme (I don't even know if any will even see this post). I just don't really think a driver with his record should be considered in this conversation yet - and he was the most "Potential Man" racer in motorsports I could think of.
Sebastian Vettel wrote:If I was good at losing, I wouldn't be in Formula 1
Re: Ranking the top 100 professional racers since 2000
Alonso deserves a place for winning multiple GPs, F1 titles and LeMans, and Rookie of the Year if I'm not mistaken at his first Indy 500.
Seb Bourdais for his successes in Champ Car and Le Mans.
Seb Bourdais for his successes in Champ Car and Le Mans.
watka wrote:I find it amusing that whilst you're one of the more openly Christian guys here, you are still first and foremost associated with an eye for the ladies!
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Re: Ranking the top 100 professional racers since 2000
100 would take a lot of thought and that's an understatement.
- Salamander
- Posts: 9614
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Re: Ranking the top 100 professional racers since 2000
Har1MAS1415 wrote: ↑10 Aug 2024, 16:01 100 would take a lot of thought and that's an understatement.
Well, yeah - that's why I'm enlisting outside help.
![Razz :P](./images/smilies/icon_razz.gif)
To get the ball rolling a little more, here's some racers who, IMO, should be no-brainers for being on the list (in no particular order):
Michael Schumacher
Lewis Hamilton
Valentino Rossi
Sebastien Loeb
Jimmie Johnson
Scott Dixon
Tom Kristensen
Tony Stewart
Kyle Busch
Kevin Harvick
Fernando Alonso
Helio Castroneves
Will Power
Dario Franchitti
Sebastien Ogier
Kalle Rovanpera
Andre Lotterer
Max Verstappen
Kimi Raikkonen
Sebastian Vettel
Stephane Peterhansel
Marc Marquez
Jorge Lorenzo
Casey Stoner
Shane van Gisbergen
Scott McLaughlin
Juan Pablo Montoya
Sebastien Bourdais
And that's all just off the top of my head - I have a feeling this could get quite contested quite suddenly.
Last edited by Salamander on 12 Aug 2024, 13:15, edited 1 time in total.
Sebastian Vettel wrote:If I was good at losing, I wouldn't be in Formula 1
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Re: Ranking the top 100 professional racers since 2000
Well, my main area of interest in motorsport is touring cars. I can think of a few nominations there:Salamander wrote: ↑10 Aug 2024, 16:30Har1MAS1415 wrote: ↑10 Aug 2024, 16:01 100 would take a lot of thought and that's an understatement.
Well, yeah - that's why I'm enlisting outside help.![]()
To get the ball rolling a little more, here's some racers who, IMO, should be no-brainers for being on the list (in no particular order):
Michael Schumacher
Lewis Hamilton
Valentino Rossi
Sebastien Loeb
Jimmie Johnson
Scott Dixon
Tom Kristensen
Tony Stewart
Kyle Busch
Kevin Harvick
Fernando Alonso
Helio Castroneves
Will Power
Dario Franchitti
Kimi Raikkonen
Sebastien Ogier
Kalle Rovanpera
Andre Lotterer
Max Verstappen
Kimi Raikkonen
Sebastian Vettel
Stephane Peterhansel
Marc Marquez
Jorge Lorenzo
Casey Stoner
Shane van Gisbergen
Scott McLaughlin
Juan Pablo Montoya
Sebastien Bourdais
And that's all just off the top of my head - I have a feeling this could get quite contested quite suddenly.
Fabrizio Giovanardi
Gabriele Tarquini
Andy Priaulx
Yvan Muller
Matt Neal
Gordon Shedden
Colin Turkington
Ash Sutton
James Thompson
Jason Plato
Bernd Schneider
Jose Maria Lopez
Mattias Ekstrom
Gary Paffett
Timo Scheider
Marco Wittmann
Rene Rast
Yann Ehrlacher
Some of those could at least be Honourable Mentions
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Re: Ranking the top 100 professional racers since 2000
Also Rob HuffHar1MAS1415 wrote: ↑10 Aug 2024, 18:51Well, my main area of interest in motorsport is touring cars. I can think of a few nominations there:Salamander wrote: ↑10 Aug 2024, 16:30Har1MAS1415 wrote: ↑10 Aug 2024, 16:01 100 would take a lot of thought and that's an understatement.
Well, yeah - that's why I'm enlisting outside help.![]()
To get the ball rolling a little more, here's some racers who, IMO, should be no-brainers for being on the list (in no particular order):
Michael Schumacher
Lewis Hamilton
Valentino Rossi
Sebastien Loeb
Jimmie Johnson
Scott Dixon
Tom Kristensen
Tony Stewart
Kyle Busch
Kevin Harvick
Fernando Alonso
Helio Castroneves
Will Power
Dario Franchitti
Kimi Raikkonen
Sebastien Ogier
Kalle Rovanpera
Andre Lotterer
Max Verstappen
Kimi Raikkonen
Sebastian Vettel
Stephane Peterhansel
Marc Marquez
Jorge Lorenzo
Casey Stoner
Shane van Gisbergen
Scott McLaughlin
Juan Pablo Montoya
Sebastien Bourdais
And that's all just off the top of my head - I have a feeling this could get quite contested quite suddenly.
Fabrizio Giovanardi
Gabriele Tarquini
Andy Priaulx
Yvan Muller
Matt Neal
Gordon Shedden
Colin Turkington
Ash Sutton
James Thompson
Jason Plato
Bernd Schneider
Jose Maria Lopez
Mattias Ekstrom
Gary Paffett
Timo Scheider
Marco Wittmann
Rene Rast
Yann Ehrlacher
Some of those could at least be Honourable Mentions
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Re: Ranking the top 100 professional racers since 2000
Maybe it would be easier to divide the Top 100 into sections, one for each different form of motorsport you plan to include, before hand.
Just a suggestion.
Just a suggestion.
- Salamander
- Posts: 9614
- Joined: 29 Mar 2009, 20:59
- Location: Embittered former NASCAR fan.
Re: Ranking the top 100 professional racers since 2000
I don't want to get too far into the weeds on how this works before we have a good amount of racers up for debate - we can worry about how to actually rank everyone later.Har1MAS1415 wrote: ↑12 Aug 2024, 19:43 Maybe it would be easier to divide the Top 100 into sections, one for each different form of motorsport you plan to include, before hand.
Just a suggestion.
Sebastian Vettel wrote:If I was good at losing, I wouldn't be in Formula 1
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Re: Ranking the top 100 professional racers since 2000
FineSalamander wrote: ↑13 Aug 2024, 19:29I don't want to get too far into the weeds on how this works before we have a good amount of racers up for debate - we can worry about how to actually rank everyone later.Har1MAS1415 wrote: ↑12 Aug 2024, 19:43 Maybe it would be easier to divide the Top 100 into sections, one for each different form of motorsport you plan to include, before hand.
Just a suggestion.
Re: Ranking the top 100 professional racers since 2000
I'm just gonna throw Vladmir Chagin in this.
I don't know what i want and i want it now!
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