2024 discussion thread

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Har1MAS1415
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Re: 2024 discussion thread

Post by Har1MAS1415 »

dr-baker wrote: 01 Dec 2024, 20:03 Autosport has an article which quotes Ben Suulyalem as saying how he runs the FIA is none of the business of F1 drivers. I would like to know how the two businesses are so different that they are not interrelated.https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/ben-s ... /10678298/

Also, Ocon might be out and Doohan come in in his place. https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/ocon- ... /10678401/
https://www.planetf1.com/news/esteban-o ... -doohan-in

2024 is about to become the first season since 1977 in which three Australian drivers raced at least once (Alan Jones, Larry Perkins, Vern Schuppan, there was also a 4th but Brian McGuire only entered the British GP and didn't pre-qualify).

Good luck Jack Doohan!
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Re: 2024 discussion thread

Post by dr-baker »

Har1MAS1415 wrote: 01 Dec 2024, 22:23
https://www.planetf1.com/news/esteban-o ... -doohan-in

2024 is about to become the first season since 1977 in which three Australian drivers raced at least once (Alan Jones, Larry Perkins, Vern Schuppan, there was also a 4th but Brian McGuire only entered the British GP and didn't pre-qualify).

Good luck Jack Doohan!
It is believed that Alpine reserve driver Jack Doohan could step up to replace Ocon for the final race of F1 2024.
Not a done deal yet, but as good as, it seems.
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Har1MAS1415
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Re: 2024 discussion thread

Post by Har1MAS1415 »

dr-baker wrote: 02 Dec 2024, 06:48
Har1MAS1415 wrote: 01 Dec 2024, 22:23
https://www.planetf1.com/news/esteban-o ... -doohan-in

2024 is about to become the first season since 1977 in which three Australian drivers raced at least once (Alan Jones, Larry Perkins, Vern Schuppan, there was also a 4th but Brian McGuire only entered the British GP and didn't pre-qualify).

Good luck Jack Doohan!
It is believed that Alpine reserve driver Jack Doohan could step up to replace Ocon for the final race of F1 2024.
Not a done deal yet, but as good as, it seems.
https://www.skysports.com/f1/news/12433 ... u-dhabi-gp
Har1MAS1415
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Re: 2024 discussion thread

Post by Har1MAS1415 »

Har1MAS1415 wrote: 02 Dec 2024, 06:58
dr-baker wrote: 02 Dec 2024, 06:48
Har1MAS1415 wrote: 01 Dec 2024, 22:23
https://www.planetf1.com/news/esteban-o ... -doohan-in

2024 is about to become the first season since 1977 in which three Australian drivers raced at least once (Alan Jones, Larry Perkins, Vern Schuppan, there was also a 4th but Brian McGuire only entered the British GP and didn't pre-qualify).

Good luck Jack Doohan!
It is believed that Alpine reserve driver Jack Doohan could step up to replace Ocon for the final race of F1 2024.
Not a done deal yet, but as good as, it seems.
https://www.skysports.com/f1/news/12433 ... u-dhabi-gp
Confirmed
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Re: 2024 discussion thread

Post by Rob Dylan »

The organisers have had something of a curse over the years when they've tried to organise 24 races in a season - one or two ultimately always get cancelled due to flooding or worldwide plague or whatever it might be. This year, I think what would be a perfect treat for the viewer at home would be the entire Abu Dhabi weekend being cancelled due to a lack of available qualified race directors :lol: eventually if they all resign, we're going to run out - that is, unless Daniel Ricciardo or a cameoing Bernie Ecclestone are in the paddock and they want to give it a go.
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Re: 2024 discussion thread

Post by Wallio »

https://www.espn.com/f1/story/_/id/4273 ... on-sources

ESPN rarely covers F1 at all (on their own i mean, they run the Sky feed but that's it.) And essentially never break stories, but this is on their front page.

I mean, he pretty much has to be gone......right? Eventually his sponsor money can't be enough.
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Re: 2024 discussion thread

Post by mario »

Wallio wrote: 02 Dec 2024, 15:07 https://www.espn.com/f1/story/_/id/4273 ... on-sources

ESPN rarely covers F1 at all (on their own i mean, they run the Sky feed but that's it.) And essentially never break stories, but this is on their front page.

I mean, he pretty much has to be gone......right? Eventually his sponsor money can't be enough.
Whilst he reportedly does bring a lot of money - Peter Windsor did somewhat stingingly call him "the best pay driver Red Bull could have" - it does sound as if pressure that he must be under in private to move to one side is going to tell.

It's also not surprising to hear that the pressure is on Perez to make the announcement that he'll retire, with Red Bull not wanting to have to fire him. It's going to be a lot easier for Red Bull's finances if they don't have to break his contract, and less likely to generate a significant backlash amongst his fan base in Mexico either if it's presented as being on Perez's terms.
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Re: 2024 discussion thread

Post by MyHamsterRacedAnOnyx »

Just a reminder from Unusual Stats from March :D

March 28- MyHamsterRacedAnOnyx

So apparently every team that has finished 1-2 in Melbourne has gone on to be WCC that year...some hope for Ferrari? ;)


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Re: 2024 discussion thread

Post by TomPryce »

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/ar ... 4x21xwp8go

This is getting VERY heated between Max and George.

Oh dear.
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Re: 2024 discussion thread

Post by Row Man Gross-Gene »

TomPryce wrote: 05 Dec 2024, 15:30 https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/ar ... 4x21xwp8go

This is getting VERY heated between Max and George.

Oh dear.

The plot thickens! I'll say it's super easy to pigeonhole George as the head-boy type, but I'm glad to get his side of this story. Max has been getting away with tons of shite on track, even if usually being technically within the rules. I don't find how he's driven alongside Lando to be very sporting. Good on George to stand up for himself. He's not my favorite, but Max's reaction to this has been way over the top. Take your lumps and move on Max!
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Re: 2024 discussion thread

Post by CoopsII »

TomPryce wrote: 05 Dec 2024, 15:30 https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/ar ... 4x21xwp8go

This is getting VERY heated between Max and George.

Oh dear.
My interpretation of all this is George is getting into Team Leader mode and I think he's decided that if he's to challenge Verstappen for the championship this issue is going to have to be dealt with at some point.
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Re: 2024 discussion thread

Post by mario »

CoopsII wrote: 05 Dec 2024, 20:20
TomPryce wrote: 05 Dec 2024, 15:30 https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/ar ... 4x21xwp8go

This is getting VERY heated between Max and George.

Oh dear.
My interpretation of all this is George is getting into Team Leader mode and I think he's decided that if he's to challenge Verstappen for the championship this issue is going to have to be dealt with at some point.
It's potentially also influenced by the fact that Wolff has been courting Verstappen in public as well, and Russell's contract with Mercedes is due to expire at the end of 2025. There may therefore be an element of using this to create more influence and support within Mercedes too.
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Re: 2024 discussion thread

Post by Paul Hayes »

It never seemed likely that the constructors' championship would really be in jeopardy in this race, but at least it stayed slightly more alive than it might have done. I suppose that encapsulates this season, really - something that really seemed done and dusted, but fortunately turned out to be closer and more interesting than we had feared it might be!
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Re: 2024 discussion thread

Post by dr-baker »

So there were no driver changes from the last race of 2023 to the first race of 2024, the first off season for that to happen. But then we had Oliver Bearman stand in at both Ferrari and Haas, and opportunities for Lawson, Colapinto and Doohan. That's more driver changes than usual in recent years and which could have been considered improbable at the start of the year.
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Re: 2024 discussion thread

Post by Har1MAS1415 »

Perez leaves Red Bull.

Lawson his likely replacement.
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Re: 2024 discussion thread

Post by Jarvis »

Har1MAS1415 wrote: 18 Dec 2024, 22:52 Perez leaves Red Bull.

Lawson his likely replacement.
Yes, Red Bull has officially confirmed that Lawson will be their second driver next season along with Verstappen.

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Re: 2024 discussion thread

Post by Rob Dylan »

Strange how this rolled out nearly a week ago on Finnish and German media, but took Auto/Motorsport (a.k.a. the ones we actually trust) until the end of last night to officially confirm it. The gap between "confirmed rumours" and "confirmed" was strangely long for this story.

Lawson must be absolutely terrified at the shoes he's going to step into.

I have no idea why none of the alternatives were chosen, either. Tsunoda at least would be consistently mediocre if he were unable to cope in top-flight machinery against the front-line competition. Some hired hand for a year like Bottas or Magnussen would be also more than capable of doing a 7 out of 10 job if Red Bull really don't want to promote either of their drivers. Picking Lawson for the job just seems like straight-up cruelty.

I can only assume that other old hired hands like Bottas would only take multi-year contracts, while Red Bull are ignoring the old adage of beggars and choosing. Again, picking Lawson seems like unnecessary cruelty considering the team just won the drivers' championship again and surely have a whole line of others begging to be Verstappen's teammate.
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Re: 2024 discussion thread

Post by Har1MAS1415 »

So, who will partner Tsunoda?
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Re: 2024 discussion thread

Post by IceG »

So Lawson to Alpine or Williams (or WEC) in 2026?

But seriously, this leaves Red Bull and Mercedes with one driver and one trainee each for 2025, whilst McLaren and Ferrari have got proven top quality in both seats. The potential spectacle of Verstappen winning the WDC remains, but surely the WCC is between McLaren and Ferrari now? And both of them have two drivers capable of winning the WDC, assuming intra-team conflicts can be smoothed out.

Meanwhile, who would be best for Visa Cash App, Racing Red Rosso Bull Toro, Minardi? Tsunoda will regard himself as (i) de facto team leader and (ii) hard done by and he could well be on his way when RBPT swaps from Honda to Ford (with the likelihood of a Ford-nominated, i.e. US, replacement). I suppose Hadjar is the next career to be sacrificed. But whoever it is must understand thay are there for two years minimum.

Unless Red Bull lose Verstappen for 2026, in which case Red Bull have a mullered driver, a sulky second choice, and another trainee from which to choose. Not great. Red Bull have produced some great drivers for other teams with Gasly, Albon, and Sainz all getting respect for their performances once they had left. A legacy they must surely look to if Verstappen goes?

All very messy and perfect for drama and a great season.
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Re: 2024 discussion thread

Post by sswishbone »

Isaac Hadjar will be in the VCARB, he quietly left Carlin so it's all but confirmed
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Re: 2024 discussion thread

Post by mario »

Rob Dylan wrote: 19 Dec 2024, 10:25 Strange how this rolled out nearly a week ago on Finnish and German media, but took Auto/Motorsport (a.k.a. the ones we actually trust) until the end of last night to officially confirm it. The gap between "confirmed rumours" and "confirmed" was strangely long for this story.

Lawson must be absolutely terrified at the shoes he's going to step into.

I have no idea why none of the alternatives were chosen, either. Tsunoda at least would be consistently mediocre if he were unable to cope in top-flight machinery against the front-line competition. Some hired hand for a year like Bottas or Magnussen would be also more than capable of doing a 7 out of 10 job if Red Bull really don't want to promote either of their drivers. Picking Lawson for the job just seems like straight-up cruelty.

I can only assume that other old hired hands like Bottas would only take multi-year contracts, while Red Bull are ignoring the old adage of beggars and choosing. Again, picking Lawson seems like unnecessary cruelty considering the team just won the drivers' championship again and surely have a whole line of others begging to be Verstappen's teammate.
I wonder if part of it might have been because Perez's father had been attacking those he called "lying journalists" if they posted stories that suggested Sergio was going to be replaced with Lawson, and talking about publishing names of "lying journalists and lying media" on his social media channels.

Several journalists have reported that, if they published stories in the past suggesting Red Bull were considering replacing Perez, they were getting considerable harassment and abuse directed at them, and it seems that Antonio Perez's behaviour has fanned the flames. I wouldn't be surprised if some journalists might have chosen to hold back on that story rather than face the threat of abusive behaviour, and that perhaps those in the Finnish and German press could get away with publishing those sorts of articles because they were probably less well known and less likely to attract hostile attention.

With regards to your questions about what Bottas or Magnussen might have wanted - given that Bottas did explicitly state that he had asked Sauber for a multi-year deal, he probably would have wanted something similar from Red Bull if they did ever approach him. Similarly, Magnussen does seem to have generally asked for multi-year deals when negotiating terms with Haas in the past, so it's possible that he might have also wanted a multi-year deal.

That said, I don't think that those alone would have necessarily been completely deal breaking by themselves. Part of it may have been that both drivers are in the tail end of their careers - having been around for around a decade each and both being in their early to mid 30s - but, and this is probably one of the bigger drivers, there is probably the political element around choosing those drivers.

Given that much of the rationale for having the junior team is that it's meant to feed drivers to their parent team, there is probably a need for both Horner and Marko to justify the existence of that team and the junior driver programme by promoting it's drivers. In recent years, they've already somewhat weakened the rationale for Red Bull's Junior Team - several drivers were only added to it when they were already hired from elsewhere, and we've had Perez come into Red Bull when he had no former association with that organisation.

To some extent, whilst Tsunoda is driving for the junior team, he's potentially not viewed as being a proper Red Bull driver - his position at the team, rightly or wrongly, is largely put down to pressure from Honda, and there does always seem to have been a little bit of resentment that his choice was somewhat forced onto them.

Lawson, in that respect, is a driver that has come through Red Bull's programme, been embedded within the organisation for several years and comes to the team with no ties to any other organisation or former team. He's effectively their driver to mould as they please and can be shaped to provide whatever profile they want to give him in the media, and also shaped much more easily to whatever role he needs to fulfil within the team than a more experienced driver that may expect more independence.

Furthermore, and being a bit more cynical, as a driver whose future career is far more dependent on future patronage from Red Bull, Lawson is perhaps in a position where Red Bull does have more leverage over him and can therefore bend him to their will.

Magnussen and Bottas are in a position where it probably mattered less to them whether they stayed on the grid in 2025, and probably know that they're in a position where they would likely also receive offers from elsewhere fairly easily, or would also be in a position to probably retire fairly comfortably. Magnussen, after all, is heading over to BMW's LMDh programme for 2025, whilst Bottas is heading back to Mercedes as a third driver and seems to be content with that.
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Re: 2024 discussion thread

Post by Ataxia »

There's a big difference between how different outlets operate. Some can go with "oh some guy told me this so we'll report it", others need more. The truth is, this didn't happen until this week - so in that, there's nothing to confirm until it happens. Can't report "Perez set for Red Bull exit" if there's still a chance - as other outlets reported - that his sponsors would keep him in.

As an aside: Perez's dad has nothing to do with this. Threats from a driver's dad to put us on some kind of list are a meaningless occupational 'hazard'.
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Re: 2024 discussion thread

Post by Har1MAS1415 »

So, is that two French (really part-French, part-Algerian) F1 drivers now?

Pierre-Henri Raphanel being the first?
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Re: 2024 discussion thread

Post by IceG »

Har1MAS1415 wrote: 20 Dec 2024, 13:28 So, is that two French (really part-French, part-Algerian) F1 drivers now?

Pierre-Henri Raphanel being the first?
I believe that Esteban José Jean-Pierre Ocon-Khelfane has an Algerian or Moroccan mother...
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Re: 2024 discussion thread

Post by Har1MAS1415 »

IceG wrote: 20 Dec 2024, 14:29
Har1MAS1415 wrote: 20 Dec 2024, 13:28 So, is that two French (really part-French, part-Algerian) F1 drivers now?

Pierre-Henri Raphanel being the first?
I believe that Esteban José Jean-Pierre Ocon-Khelfane has an Algerian or Moroccan mother...
He is of Algerian and Spanish descent.
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Re: 2024 discussion thread

Post by IceG »

Har1MAS1415 wrote: 20 Dec 2024, 14:31
IceG wrote: 20 Dec 2024, 14:29
Har1MAS1415 wrote: 20 Dec 2024, 13:28 So, is that two French (really part-French, part-Algerian) F1 drivers now?

Pierre-Henri Raphanel being the first?
I believe that Esteban José Jean-Pierre Ocon-Khelfane has an Algerian or Moroccan mother...
He is of Algerian and Spanish descent.
So, to be pedantic, he is French of Algerian and Spanish descent so he is a part-French and part-Algerian but the parts do not add up to 100% :evil:

Also Hadjar to Alpine or Williams (or WEC) in 2027?
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Re: 2024 discussion thread

Post by Har1MAS1415 »

IceG wrote: 20 Dec 2024, 16:01
Har1MAS1415 wrote: 20 Dec 2024, 14:31
IceG wrote: 20 Dec 2024, 14:29

I believe that Esteban José Jean-Pierre Ocon-Khelfane has an Algerian or Moroccan mother...
He is of Algerian and Spanish descent.
So, to be pedantic, he is French of Algerian and Spanish descent so he is a part-French and part-Algerian but the parts do not add up to 100% :evil:

Also Hadjar to Alpine or Williams (or WEC) in 2027?
Well, one half of his family is from Malaga, but which side seems to vary from one website to another.
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Re: 2024 discussion thread

Post by Jarvis »

sswishbone wrote: 19 Dec 2024, 14:16 Isaac Hadjar will be in the VCARB, he quietly left Carlin so it's all but confirmed
Yuki will once again produce better results than his teammate in an F1 season. I would like to see him race for the Red Bull along with Max, but I am not sure if that will ever happen.
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Re: 2024 discussion thread

Post by mario »

Jarvis wrote: 27 Dec 2024, 10:32
sswishbone wrote: 19 Dec 2024, 14:16 Isaac Hadjar will be in the VCARB, he quietly left Carlin so it's all but confirmed
Yuki will once again produce better results than his teammate in an F1 season. I would like to see him race for the Red Bull along with Max, but I am not sure if that will ever happen.
That does, to some extent, put the pressure on Tsunoda to perform though - part of the justification Red Bull have given for promoting Lawson over Tsunoda was that they felt that Lawson was close to Tsunoda already, despite Tsunoda's advantage in terms of experience, creating the expectation that he would start out-performing Tsunoda as Lawson gains more experience.

That suggests that, if Hadjar is seen as being close to Tsunoda in terms of performance, then Red Bull will probably back Hadjar as having better longer term potential. Tsunoda will therefore be under pressure to perform significantly better than Hadjar, rather than by just a small margin, to give himself the best chance for promotion to Red Bull (as well as having to hope that Lawson struggles enough for Red Bull to want to fire him).
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