fjackdaw wrote:I've always thought that the whole Schumacher "rainmeister" thing was a bit of a myth based almost solely on Spain '96. Actually, many of the memorable wet races of the past involve Schumi crashing or making mistakes.
Belgium '95: Holding off Damon Hill for a lap and a half on dry tyres when Hill was on inters and lapping several seconds per lap quicker. Belgium '98: Leading by a country mile until being taken off by a lapped Coulthard Malaysia '01: Team made the right tyre call, but Schuie still passed his teammate on the same tyres and went on to win by a country mile
3 nominations: -Sauber: again. Again. Again. Again a hundred times. Both cars out within the first 10 laps. Shabby pace. The usual. -Buemi: horrible luck all weekend. -Liuzzi: awful qualifying effort, then he proceeds to spin off and take out Buemi and Kobayashi. On lap 1.
Liuzzi's my ROTR, that spin on the first lap was pathetic, after an awful quali. What's more, it took out 2 other drivers. Agree with other nominations like Schumacher and the 2nd safety car period for half a wing in one corner.
Nico Rosberg wrote:Break me down mentally? Good luck with that one.
watka wrote:I find it amusing that whilst you're one of the more openly Christian guys here, you are still first and foremost associated with an eye for the ladies!
dinizintheoven wrote:GOOD CHRISTIANS do not go to jail. EVERYONE ON FORMULA ONE REJECTS should be in jail.
fjackdaw wrote:I've always thought that the whole Schumacher "rainmeister" thing was a bit of a myth based almost solely on Spain '96. Actually, many of the memorable wet races of the past involve Schumi crashing or making mistakes.
Belgium '95: Holding off Damon Hill for a lap and a half on dry tyres when Hill was on inters and lapping several seconds per lap quicker. Belgium '98: Leading by a country mile until being taken off by a lapped Coulthard Malaysia '01: Team made the right tyre call, but Schuie still passed his teammate on the same tyres and went on to win by a country mile
That's in total 4 races in a career lasting from 91-06 and now 2010... 4 races, in at least 20+ wet races...
Strong contention for Tonio Liuzzi - pathetic qualifying and a major balls-up in the race - and also for Virgin - for not looking even slightly bothered all weekend - but my nomination goes to BBC commentator Jonathan Legard. Never at any point did he seem to have a clue what he was talking about, and spent 50% of his commentary trying (and often failing) to correct his last mistake.
lot's of candidates, schumacher for being rusty, force india for ruining their potential (espacially Liuzzi), Webber for getting frustrated to soon, Hulkenberg for, well, what was he doing? Sauber for not getting anywere, Virgin for being even worse than Sauber at times. Jarno Trulli for finding back his good old unlucky spell.
but i'll nominate williams
really sad to see them struggle, and they're absolutely not improving, and really afwul strategy for Hulkenberg. This also may be a good indication of how good Rosberg actually was, seeing that the experienced Barichello can't get them anywhere.
Virgin who weren't seen all race except for di Grassi being caught up on the jack on the grid.
The BBC, for the "ghost" that kept interrupting the commentary (I suspect it was Charlie Whiting, but I have no idea how he was transmissing onto the open channel).
But the winner is Nico Hulkenberg. Touted as one of the sport's young stars, he suffered the ignomity of finishing behind a Lotus ...
mario wrote:I'm wondering what the hell has been going on in this thread [...] it's turned into a bizarre detour into mythical flying horses and the sort of search engine results that CoopsII is going to have a very hard time explaining ...
Captain Hammer wrote:The BBC, for the "ghost" that kept interrupting the commentary (I suspect it was Charlie Whiting, but I have no idea how he was transmissing onto the open channel).
I had no such probelms...sure you weren't just imagining things?
Novitopoli wrote:Everytime someone orders at Pizza Hut, an Italian dies.
I was thinking during the race that you know when you've been on this forum too much when you see Petrov spin from 5th (or 6th?) place and the first thing you think about is Captain Hammer screaming "NO!!!!!!!!!" at his TV screen!
Anyway, this is going to be a long post because there are PLENTY of candidates for ROTR (as there usually is for wet races).
Fernando Alonso: Okay, so not a major candidate for this award, he finished a solid 4th. However, he did make an absolutely laughable false start (can't remember the last time I saw anything like that), and he then proceeded to hustle Massa in the pit lane, presumably after also being made aware of the Hamilton/Vettel antics.
Felipe Massa: Whatever the opposite of a fish out of water is, that's what Massa is. May be a surprise entry on the list, but he was running outside the points for most of the race, and almost replicated "Hamilton 2007" is the pits.
Lewis Hamilton: He is being a naughty boy isn't he (but it's bloody entertaining in my opinion, you grumpy spoilsports)! After the Malaysian race, you'd think he'd cool down a bit. I think he might have wanted to show a bit of disrespect to the Formula One Drivers' Association who were ripping into him before the race. Not only was his dicing with Vettel dangerous (although they are both at fault), his late cut into the pit lane for inters could have caused an almighty accident had someone else being coming in through the normal pit lane entry.
Stewards: I think they were right not to punish Hamilton at Malaysia simply because his movement wasn't really dangerous, but today all the drivers were at it (Alonso vs Massa, Hamilton vs Vettel, Hamilton's late cut into the pits, Button's bunching up the pack), and they could all have ended up with cars going into the wall. I'm not a fan of steward intervention, but there was definitely some needed today.
Organisation of motorsport in China: They need to get their act together. To see a safety car have to come out because the marshals are not experienced enough to clear small pieces of debris is not expectable at this level. They should have done as they did in Abu Dhabi and sent over some experienced marshals (before the volcano went off in Iceland of course).
Nico Hulkenberg: We're getting on to the epic fails now. Hulkenberg really has been poor, and he showed that today by finishing behind a Lotus. True, the Williams is not a good car, but this guy has been seen in some people's eyes as better than Hamilton was when he won GP2, and he has not adapted. He's not really close to Barrichello either, and he's consistently slower than the Toro Rossos. Too early to say too much (we made that mistake with Kobayashi), but not impressive.
Michael Schumacher: Talking of not impressive, Schumacher again only just crept into the points. I can't remember the last time I saw someone be overtaken that many times in a race. He really is not comfortable with the car, which is unusual because he built both Benetton and Ferrari up from being average to being consistent race winners. To be fair, I think Rosberg is outperforming the car, but you can't get away from the fact that he is probably the best deadbeat teammate on the grid at the moment.
Virgin Racing: A catalogue of calamities. Having to change Di Grassi's clutch at the last minute (I'm not even sure he started the race) is one thing, but leaving Glock on the jack is another. It's the sort of thing I'd expect to see in a reject team profile.
Toro Rosso: This is purely based on Buemi's crash in practice. I've never been so shocked at a car failing than for that crash. Whatever Toro Rosso were doing, they were pushing the limits too far. Their race was not terrible though, and with his wet set up, Buemi could have been well in the points with a possible IIDOTR, if it weren't for my reject of the race winner...
VITANTONIO LUIZZI - Really bad weekend for the Italian. Qualified way off his team mate in 17th, and did anyone see him get held up by traffic? The point is he should have been way higher up with his earlier laps. The race was then a disaster as he spun in a straight line and took out Buemi and Kobayashi. I think he was just starting to get some (deserved) respect in this forum, but he's taken a big step back with that one.
fjackdaw wrote:I've always thought that the whole Schumacher "rainmeister" thing was a bit of a myth based almost solely on Spain '96. Actually, many of the memorable wet races of the past involve Schumi crashing or making mistakes.
Belgium '95: Holding off Damon Hill for a lap and a half on dry tyres when Hill was on inters and lapping several seconds per lap quicker. Belgium '98: Leading by a country mile until being taken off by a lapped Coulthard Malaysia '01: Team made the right tyre call, but Schuie still passed his teammate on the same tyres and went on to win by a country mile
That's in total 4 races in a career lasting from 91-06 and now 2010... 4 races, in at least 20+ wet races...
ROTR... The Stewards:Everything is allowed now.
There was that bit about the 2000 European Grand Prix where he overtook Hakkinen when the rain began to fall and pulled away from there. Didn't he also capitalise on wet strategy in Spa '92?
watka wrote:I was thinking during the race that you know when you've been on this forum too much when you see Petrov spin from 5th (or 6th?) place and the first thing you think about is Captain Hammer screaming "NO!!!!!!!!!" at his TV screen!
I did that too.
Nissanymania! Friday has never been the same since.
Popi_Larrauri wrote:3th I do agree on marshall being fair over Vettel-Hamilton issue, but they said nothing on Alonso and, more importantly... am I the only one that believes that Alonso didn't jumped at start?
He did jump the start, but barely. People are not looking at it closely, they only see that he got a demon start and they assume that he grossly jumped the start. But it wasn't by much.
In fact, the funny thing is that, had he NOT jumped the start but got off the line so well, he'd still have been leading by the first corner.
Go home, Bernie Ecclestone!
"There will be no other victory this year, I can tell you, more welcomed than this one" Bob Varsha, 1995 Canadian GP
watka wrote:I was thinking during the race that you know when you've been on this forum too much when you see Petrov spin from 5th (or 6th?) place and the first thing you think about is Captain Hammer screaming "NO!!!!!!!!!" at his TV screen!
I did that too.
I did that too, Petrov is on my Fantasy Racers team. Of course, out of all people he passes, he passes the other driver on my fantasy team, Mark Webber.
CoopsII wrote:On occasion I have ventured into the PMM forum but beat a hasty retreat soon after as it resembles some sort of bad acid trip in there
I'm surprised more people haven't mentioned Virgin
First off, Glock didn't even start the race, he lost valve pressure before the formation lap. They wanted to start from the pits and decided it was too much work to dismantle the rear end of the virgin.
Di Grassi didn't make the formation lap either, team had to change the clutch. The replacement clutch didn't work, so they replaced it as well, as the race began. He started on lap 7, and retired 8 laps later. Seriously, HRT is making a mockery of this well funded team, and they're not exactly raking in the points themselves.
And Buemi. His suspension collapsed, and both front wheels literally flew off the car. Both front wheels flew off the car. That's loony tunes material. Road Runner, Bugs Bunny, Acme Toro Rosso suspension dismantling TNT.
Massa. Alonso beat the pants off him today, and he served a penalty, and made what seemed like constant pit stops.
"Grosjean has a great desire to turn around and look at the corner he's just gone through, too many times per lap or per session, he's always spinning that Renault"
shinji wrote:Kobayashi - Seen this guy without a front wing way too many times. Captain Hammer, all is forgiven.
What the heck did Kobayashi do this race? He generally was a couple tenths faster than his teammate all weekend until he was taken out by an incident out of his control.
My votes are as follows:
(Dis)honorable Mention: Michael Schumacher and STR
3rd : Shanghai subway - Why the hell do you not open your newly completed subway stop right at the circuit ON RACE DAY?
2nd : Liuzzi - Generally an awful weekend all around. Got knocked out in Q3 along with the new teams and then caused the only accident of the race on the first lap.
1st : The Stewards - Yet again for doing absolutely jack all in trying to address dangerous maneuvers. I know previous seasons' steward decisions were too harsh, but this season's decisions are just encouraging jackassery behavior. It's going to end in tears.
LionZoo wrote:1st : The Stewards - Yet again for doing absolutely jack all in trying to address dangerous maneuvers. I know previous seasons' steward decisions were too harsh, but this season's decisions are just encouraging jackassery behavior. It's going to end in tears.
I assume you're referring to the Hamilton-Vettel incident. If you watch the replay again, Vettel is clearly lauched first ... but the only way to catch it is in slow motion. Hamilton can't be penalise for something the naked eye cannot see. I actually think the stewards made the right call in waiting until the end of the race, so as not to disrupt the action.
mario wrote:I'm wondering what the hell has been going on in this thread [...] it's turned into a bizarre detour into mythical flying horses and the sort of search engine results that CoopsII is going to have a very hard time explaining ...
LionZoo wrote:1st : The Stewards - Yet again for doing absolutely jack all in trying to address dangerous maneuvers. I know previous seasons' steward decisions were too harsh, but this season's decisions are just encouraging jackassery behavior. It's going to end in tears.
I assume you're referring to the Hamilton-Vettel incident. If you watch the replay again, Vettel is clearly lauched first ... but the only way to catch it is in slow motion. Hamilton can't be penalise for something the naked eye cannot see. I actually think the stewards made the right call in waiting until the end of the race, so as not to disrupt the action.
It's more the Alonso and Hamilton passing into the pitlane maneuvers. And yes the release was hard to judge, but when Hamilton realized he was behind Vettel in the pitlane, he should've given up on a lost cause. Also, Vettel was a bit of an ass in trying to push Hamilton into other team's pitboxes. However, overall I'd say Hamilton would be more at fault than others. Considering he's already on a warning from Malaysia (and how he only escaped with a warning continues to baffle me) he should watch himself more. Now it just appears the stewards are content with giving him warning after warning after warning rather than doing anything about it. It's like in soccer; certain fouls won't get you a yellow in a one off, but repeated fouling should.
3rd. Sauber. Woeful. The driver choice, the car design, the engine. No sponsors. Inflated expectations. Everything is going wrong. 2nd. Michael Schumacher. He just drives like an old man. None of the bravery of yesteryear. Strategy didn't help, but after the safety car he was a sitting duck 1st. Nico Hulkenburg. I don't care who you are. Finishing behind a car you are 3 seconds a lap faster than without any reliability issues is atrocious. His strategy was rubbish but he was rubbish as well.
I don't know what you all want RE: stewards decisions. In my opinion they have been fantastic this year at letting the drivers go at it - surely what we all want right?
I saw nothing wrong with Hamilton's release with Vettel and nothing wrong with Button's antics behind the safety car. I am a little concerned with the overtaking into the pitlane but there is no rule that says you aren't allowed to do that so you can't punish what isn't illegal.
As for ROTR: I think I've nominated Schumacher every race this season and he had another bad race this weekend. However my vote is for Liuzzi for the obvious reasons.
Tealy wrote:I saw nothing wrong with Hamilton's release with Vettel and nothing wrong with Button's antics behind the safety car. I am a little concerned with the overtaking into the pitlane but there is no rule that says you aren't allowed to do that so you can't punish what isn't illegal.
Completely agree, Hamilton did it to Vettel and Alonso did it to Massa. They cut the corner, onto the grass to gain position. Isn't that illegal? Isn't the rule that you can't leave the track to get advantage?
As i looked at my naked body in the mirror, i thought to myself, "I'm going to get thrown out of Ikea any minute.".
Fighting in pit's is no use, they are on the limiter, and there are a lot og people there. And going backwards is not allowed what so ever. Buttons move was completely legal, they should've managed to not crash on the restart, but that was a race incident.
Anyway, you are not allowed to cross the white line, you are not allowed to cut and gain from it, you are not allowed to make positions outside the track, and you are not allowed, in any circumstances allowed to move the car, in the opposite direction of the way the race is going.
May I just that I have absolutely no idea about this Hamilton driving backwards business. I don't remember seeing any footage of this (must have been because it was either one of the many ad breaks in our coverage or I must have missed it while talking to people about the race on messenger) so can someone please either explain what happened here or produce a link to the TV footage?
Biscione wrote:"Some Turkemenistani gulag repurposed for residential use" is the best way yet I've heard to describe North / East Glasgow.
Well, he was not turning 180degrees. But the first time he went to the pit, he was halfway through the last corner, before he made a late-call and turned (more than 90 degrees, and that is backwards) to get into the pit-entry, by doing this, we went the opposite direction, and crossed the white line.
Myrvold wrote:Well, he was not turning 180degrees. But the first time he went to the pit, he was halfway through the last corner, before he made a late-call and turned (more than 90 degrees, and that is backwards) to get into the pit-entry, by doing this, we went the opposite direction, and crossed the white line.
I assume this was under the first safety car correct?
Biscione wrote:"Some Turkemenistani gulag repurposed for residential use" is the best way yet I've heard to describe North / East Glasgow.
Myrvold wrote:Well, he was not turning 180degrees. But the first time he went to the pit, he was halfway through the last corner, before he made a late-call and turned (more than 90 degrees, and that is backwards) to get into the pit-entry, by doing this, we went the opposite direction, and crossed the white line.
I assume this was under the first safety car correct?
Myrvold wrote:Well, he was not turning 180degrees. But the first time he went to the pit, he was halfway through the last corner, before he made a late-call and turned (more than 90 degrees, and that is backwards) to get into the pit-entry, by doing this, we went the opposite direction, and crossed the white line.
I assume this was under the first safety car correct?
Correct.
That explains everything. ONE went to an ad break under that Safety Car period... no wonder I have no idea what the bathplug you guys are talking about
Biscione wrote:"Some Turkemenistani gulag repurposed for residential use" is the best way yet I've heard to describe North / East Glasgow.
LionZoo wrote:It's more the Alonso and Hamilton passing into the pitlane maneuvers. And yes the release was hard to judge, but when Hamilton realized he was behind Vettel in the pitlane, he should've given up on a lost cause.
There's evidently no rule against it, since no action was taken.
LionZoo wrote:Also, Vettel was a bit of an ass in trying to push Hamilton into other team's pitboxes.
If Vettel felt he had position, then had the right to defend his line.
LionZoo wrote:However, overall I'd say Hamilton would be more at fault than others. Considering he's already on a warning from Malaysia (and how he only escaped with a warning continues to baffle me) he should watch himself more. Now it just appears the stewards are content with giving him warning after warning after warning rather than doing anything about it. It's like in soccer; certain fouls won't get you a yellow in a one off, but repeated fouling should.
The stewards probably don't want to rock the boat too much. Lewis Hamilton has been under investigation and received more penalties - many of them controversial - than any other driver. The stewards are probably wary of this; they don't want their integrity compromised with accustions of bias.
mario wrote:I'm wondering what the hell has been going on in this thread [...] it's turned into a bizarre detour into mythical flying horses and the sort of search engine results that CoopsII is going to have a very hard time explaining ...
Instead Hamilton misses out of penalty two races in a row, one with Johnny Herbert as a steward(a brit), the second with Alex Wurz as a steward (A former McLaren tester, through many years)...
captainhappy wrote:I want to see a lot of support for M.Schumacher on this thread.
He was eaten alive by just about everyone on the grid in China. All the while his team mate is leading laps and stepping on the podium.
As much as I dislike the arrogant £$%& I did smile when Massa tried to take him on the outside and ended up on the grass... He did do some overtaking. The Hispanias I think....
As i looked at my naked body in the mirror, i thought to myself, "I'm going to get thrown out of Ikea any minute.".
I don't think he qualifies as ROTR, but Massa once again proved that he melts like the Wicked Witch when it rains. Yes, Alonso's move into the pits was very dodgy, but Massa did nothing ... pre- or post-Alonso pass. Massa's lack of form in the wet will always be his Achilles heel.
That said ... (race only division)
Bronze: Williams. You are woodwork, you suck. Every year, it seems, my F1 buddies say out loud, "This is the year Williams gets its together" ... and they never do. Their race strategy yesterday ... well, what was it again? I wonder how Nico Hulkenberg, the most sought-after GP2 driver from the class of '09, feels about seeing Vitaly Petrov get into points-paying contention when he's mired amongst the Lotus and Virgin dreck. Silver: Sauber. If Williams are woodwork and if they suck, Sauber is the suckiest bunch of sucks who ever sucked. Ugly livery, boring as all git out lead driver, total unreliability, etc. I respect Peter Sauber, but the return to privateering has not been pretty. Gold: Stewards. Anything that would be construed as even a 50/50 call should be handled with draconian force if it happens in the pits or even pit entry. It's ridiculously dangerous to have a Vettel/Hamilton-style situation with all of the people in the pit lane. As for pit entry, drivers should not expect to be overtaken once they exit the track proper. Both Hamilton and Alonso should have been penalized.
LionZoo wrote:Also, Vettel was a bit of an ass in trying to push Hamilton into other team's pitboxes.
If Vettel felt he had position, then had the right to defend his line.
Not really...considering you're not supposed to be racing each other in pit-lane! On the track where there is a racing line to be defended its all well and good, but in a pit-lane the idea is to proceed straight to the exit rather than weaving and 'defending your position'.
The point I'm making is said 'line' doesn't exist - racing in the pitlane is wrong. Keep it out on the track itself where you can't run people over.
Novitopoli wrote:Everytime someone orders at Pizza Hut, an Italian dies.
LionZoo wrote:It's more the Alonso and Hamilton passing into the pitlane maneuvers. And yes the release was hard to judge, but when Hamilton realized he was behind Vettel in the pitlane, he should've given up on a lost cause.
There's evidently no rule against it, since no action was taken.
Isn't it a little circular to use the "well the stewards didn't do anything so it must be okay" argument when my entire point was that I felt the stewards did a crap job?
Schumacher I guess. For being so-so while his team-mate is in contention for the World Championship. Virgin for just being laughable is also worth a mention.
For Hamilton and Alonso passing just before the pit lane entry, congrats for being racers. What Vettel did towars the exit of the pit lane was many times more stupid and dangerous.
Myrvold wrote:Instead Hamilton misses out of penalty two races in a row, one with Johnny Herbert as a steward(a brit), the second with Alex Wurz as a steward (A former McLaren tester, through many years)...
You're always going to be able to see some pattern for a conspiracy with ex-drivers through associations with different makers, engines or nationality etc. Didnt Prost do one? And he raced for Maranello and Woking.
"Aerodynamics is for those who cannot manufacture good engines." -Enzo Ferrari
